Letters To Seoulsearch, Part 5: As a Christian, I Just Can't Win.

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seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,939
4,578
113
#1
Hey everyone,

Thank you so much for bearing with me and this will be my last thread of this series.

Have you ever felt as if, as a Christian, you just can't win, no matter how hard you try?

Here's what I mean: as I've written, many of the letters I've received about my threads from men who are trying to "correct" me or "make me see the truth" will give a long list of how most people in the church choose to remain blind (except them, of course.) They talk about people's lack of humility and how others brag about all their good deeds, but that they, unlike the rest of the guilty, don't do this. And I do give them credit for bringing up some valid points. But in the end, they always end their letters to me with classic correctional phrases such as this (direct quote): "Just try and look at things through God's eyes before using human eyes."

Sigh. I understand what they're trying to say. I really do. But why do I always feel the frustration of "Christians condemning other Christians" (who don't even know each other) after I've read what they have to say? In other words, I feel that they, not God, but these men only, have personally judged and condemned what they see as me being "one of those unsaved Christians who chooses the world over God" and they don't even know me.

This is something I HATE about Christianity. YOU. JUST. CAN'T. WIN. If you don't talk much, people assume you're not much of a believer: "Do you even read your Bible or pray???!" "Are you bringing in the masses for Christ?" And if you DO talk about your experiences, people say, "OH, YOU certainly won't receive any glory from God because the Bible says you should keep your good deeds between just you and your Father!!" Just the other day, I shared some things I thought might help encourage others in a particular situation and a poster slammed me for supposedly thinking that I am so ahead and above others that I was putting myself in a position in which I could speak down to others by giving them advice.

SIGH. I wasn't trying to look down on anyone, I was trying to say, "It's ok to get help."

BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I SAY OR DO, I JUST CAN'T WIN.

Several years ago, we had some regular posters who were constantly "correcting" other users in almost every thread. Out of curiosity, I wrote a thread asking how many people invited others to church. Interestingly, one of these very outspoken "correctors" said, "Oh, I don't ask people to church. I feel it would be too forward and intrusive into their lives." Wow. Now, I'm NOT saying that everyone has to ask someone to church.

What I AM trying to say is reflected in my new signature--so many Christians seem to think that if other people don't have the SAME gifting or perspective or level of problems or knack for quoting Scripture as they do, they obviously must be hell-bound heathens. I get so frustrated when others don't heed the oft-repeated principle: that we all strive for a PERSONAL relationship with God. As in, His work will look a little different in EVERYONE'S lives.

You've all been so gracious to bear with me this long. Please allow me to tell you why I feel so frustrated today.

One of the things God has enabled me to do is invite people to church. It's not a very speedy process--sometimes I'll know a person 2 years before I'm comfortable asking--but do you know why I wait so long? Because by then, I have a history with the person. I know their kids' names, their interests and hobbies, their personal background that may or may not include church... I build a foundation with the person and THEN I ask, because I am concerned about people feeling as if they are nothing but someone's spiritual notch on a heavenly report card.

And no, I am NOT trying to boast or somehow imply I'm ahead of anyone else. I suppose some Christians would say that surely I couldn't lead anyone to Christ--I'm too much of a snob or too set in my worldly ways! Sigh. Again, we all have DIFFERENT callings, and this--not correcting people, not quoting 8 Scriptures off the top of my head, not pointing out everything wrong with the church--just happens to be one of mine. Several years ago a Christian friend and I recruited enough co-workers to go with us to fill an entire pew (and one of them wound up joining the church.) These were people we knew who normally partied every weekend. But we had built a long-standing friendship with them, and God opened their hearts to our invitation. Yet many Christians don't see this because I don't tell them, and they then assume I have fatal flaws in my walk with Christ.

Now, don't get me wrong--not everyone says yes when I ask them to church. I've heard plenty of NO's as well, and that's fine--part of the learning process. My main concern is creating a comfortable, inviting atmosphere. They're already feeling God call them--I see my job as taking them through the next steps so that they don't have do it alone. I pick them up or meet them, am there with them for the entire service, give them a few dollars for the offering plate so they won't feel awkward, answer any questions (for example, they may wonder about communion if they've never seen it before), and usually take them to lunch or coffee if they want to talk about what happened. It's something I really enjoy.

HOWEVER. Here is my dilemma. As I said, I am NOT trying to boast. Rather, I am ASKING FOR YOUR HELP, because just this week, God opened a huge door. Not one, but two people I've met in this area told me ON THE SAME DAY that they felt God calling them... but were unsure of what to do next. Neither has a church history. OF COURSE, I invited both to church. The funny thing is, I'm new to the area and looking for a church myself (but have one in mind as I've been there about 3 times myself.) This actually gave me the perfect opportunity, because I told them, "You know what, I'm looking for a church myself... if you have one in mind, I'd be happy to go with you, if not, you're welcome to come to the one I've been checking out with me." One accepted without hesitation.

However, you can imagine my utter heartbreak, when the second one said, "NO, NO, NO, I could never go to a church. I know how people are in church. They're going to look at me and tell me that because I don't know the Bible as well as they do or because I don't have their kind of faith or because I'm not doing God's work as well as they are... that I'm going to go to hell. I could never go to a church because the people there would never see me (my faith and place where I am right now in Christ) as being good enough." I could have sworn this person must have been hanging out in the Bible Forum!!!

Part of me wanted to yell, "AMEN!!!!" in agreement. It was as if this person was living out my own recent experiences with other Christians. And you know me, I believe in being real with people. I couldn't lie. And so, in reply, I said, "Yes, you are absolutely right in some ways and I know exactly what you're saying, but not everyone is like that. Why not come and at least give it a try?" After about a 15-minute conversation, this person said that if I was willing to go with them, they would give it a shot. You bet I'll be there!!! We exchanged numbers and plan to go the first Sunday our schedules allow.

But all the way home, I hung my head, and I told God I felt like a hypocrite, because I feel exactly the same way as they do. While negative experiences make me appreciate my good Christian friends all the more, part of me is utterly disgusted and doesn't want to be around Christians at all for a while, let alone try to help someone else at a crucial state in their calling to move forward, because this person is very curious about my own church history, and I will not lie or pretty things up.

I feel very protective of the people I invite to church. Part of me wants to wield some sort of weapon to protect them from the group of blood-thirsty, "You'd Better Be Good Enough" Christians inside the building. In college I invited a group of my friends (some who were agnostic and even atheist) and when we walked outside, the first thing that happened was a church member yelled at one of my friends for lighting up a cigarette. SIGH. I understand smoking wasn't allowed on church property but... What a first impression for someone trying to come to learn about the Lord. Another girl I knew invited her friends... and some church members drew back from shaking her hand when they saw she had a tattoo. Things like this anger me to no end. I went and introduced myself to this girl, giving her a big hug, and telling her to please come back any time.

I just pray I'll be able to say the right things to this young person who is so hungry for God. But I won't cover anything up, either, and I will tell them what they can expect to face as a Christian. Especially. From. Other. Christians.

What do you all of you do when your faith is being slammed or you are being called too worldly... by "brothers and sisters in Christ?" How would you help someone who wants to know God but is afraid of the church and the sword-wielding Christians who dwell there?

What would you do to help someone in this situation?
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,780
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#2
In this one point I feel you are wrong seoulsearch. I've agreed with all four of your other threads but I have to disagree here. I'm not disagreeing about the people you have observed finding fault, but I do think you are paying too much attention to them.

I've found out if you ignore people's opinions your life gets a lot easier. Refer to my "Weird" thread for a full explanation.

Basically, as you have already pointed out, people are gonna talk about you and talk to you about what you supposedly did wrong. It's just gonna happen, and if you pay attention to it then you are right, you just can't win. It'll drive you nuts trying.

Personally I find that very liberating. If they're gonna talk either way, you might as well do what you know is right. You're free! The gossip result will be the same no matter what you do.

Now go out and make some more friends so you can invite them. :D

(By the way, I got a bit of that criticism myself here. I knew the fault-finder was wrong so I cared naught for it. If the one who criticized me sees this, I don't care about that either.) :p
 

CatHerder

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2013
3,551
79
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#3
so.

many.


words!


tiny.


phone.


screen!


aargh!
 

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,780
8,087
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#4
So get busy reading. ;)
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,939
4,578
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#5
Lynx,

I appreciate your words. I am a very feeling person and often care too much about what other people feel as well.

I was wondering if you would tell a someone who is new to Christianity the same kind of thing? "Yes, Christians are going to criticize you but you just have to learn to ignore it." I am just thinking of how to convey this message to someone who is just getting their toes wet within the faith.

One thing is for sure... I need to work on my ignorance. ;) As if I need any help in that area! :D
 

Nautilus

Senior Member
Jun 29, 2012
6,488
53
48
#6
as far as the people who try to correct everyone or act holier than thou on a regular basis II stopped caring what they thought long ago. If I cant get a feel for someones base humanity through a post I just write them off. I always win.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,939
4,578
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#7
Everyone,

Lynx brought up some good points I need to clarify. I know the above was a wild rant on my part :).

But rather than focus on me, I would like to focus on all of you. I do have my ways of handling criticism, both here and in real life. I either ignore it, confront it, or turn it into a discussion question here in the forums, depending on each situation.

What I'd like to know in this thread is how all of you react when other Christians accuse you of being worldly, etc. In other words... What is the worst treatment you've received from other Christians, and how have you handled it?

And, if you were talking to someone new to Christianity (but very aware of some of the negative, judgmental attitudes of the church), what would you tell that person, especially if they are afraid of being mistreated as you were?

Because the main reason I wrote this is that I am concerned about what to tell people who are interested in coming to church... about what the realities of church life, and dealing with other Christians, has really been like. As you can see, at least one of the two people I recently invited is all too aware and I want to be honest but hopefully not intimidate.
 
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ChandlerFan

Senior Member
Jan 8, 2013
1,148
102
63
#8
Seoulsearch, I didn't get a chance to read your entire post right at the moment, but I did at least see the beginning and the question towards the end. I think my answer depends on what you mean when you say you "can't win." If you mean that you can't please everybody, that's completely true, and I think you have to just not care. I know that's difficult--it's hard for me--but that's really the way you have to go. Who cares what other Christians you don't know think about your actions if they want to fingerpoint for its own sake? (Hint: The only people usually offended by that rhetorical question are the people who like to judge.)
If by saying you can't win you mean that we can't be perfect, you are right there too, and I think that's a good admission to fall back onto. Anyone who tries to say something different is kidding themselves really. And then that allows us to throw our hands up and quit trying so much, and instead lean on the person and work of Jesus Christ who won for us. Then we can use that grace as a springboard for pursuing greater holiness in our lives.

So to anyone who is afraid of people and their opinions, I would say...
"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death... For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, 'Abba! Father!' The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs--heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him... What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died--more than that, who was raised--who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall seperate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written, 'For your sake we are being killed all day long; we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.' No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." - Romans 8:1-2, 14-17, 31-39 (emphasis mine)

Now of course there is always a place for you to check yourself on whatever you're being criticized or corrected for. I think that's a good habit to get into. But if you know your heart is in the right place, or in other words you know that you have honored God in this area of your life because you do care about what He thinks, then you have complete and total freedom to not care about any of that impersonal criticism.
 
M

MidniteWelder

Guest
#9
What are you trying to win?



Because the main reason I wrote this is that I am concerned about what to tell people who are interested in coming to church... about what the realities of church life, and dealing with other Christians, has really been like. As you can see, at least one of the two people I recently invited is all too aware and I want to be honest but hopefully not intimidate.

What about this?
Did anyone condemn you?
Then neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.
 
I

INTJer

Guest
#10
Wow, seoulsearch, you have presented a lot to think about. I think part of the problem is that we too often worship at the altars of certitude or niceness. When certitude is someone's idol, they can say that they have reached a state of near perfection. Certitude is a kind of faith turned in on itself. It is an immature faith. One's faith does not look to God so much as it anxiously looks at itself. When one's faith is the object of one's faith, one will be insecure unless one can convince oneself that one's faith is perfect. And perceived imperfections in others become a grave threat to oneself. Thus one cannot ask any difficult questions or have any doubts. Even the most minor matter of doctrine or practise becomes an urgent matter of salvation. One's own experience and understanding become the standard because that is all that faith in one's faith can see. The cardinal sin in this system is to be vulnerable. This faith is centered on fear and not love. And we are expected to pay homage to the god of Niceness. You are not spiritual enough unless you speak in a lot of Christianese phrases. Admitting any struggles or questions is not only a sin against certitude, it also isn't "nice." Just about anything real or challenging is imperfect and not "nice" enough. Everything should be nice and artificial, like Disneyland. This niceness comes out in funny ways. I have heard conservatives try to filter out anything human from the book The Song of Solomon. Everything has to be perfectly "spiritual" or else it isn't nice. I have heard liberals try to filter out anything troubling from the Book of Psalms, because not every psalm is nice.

It is good you admit to being human. I imagine God makes use of humans who stumble on the earth more than he uses spiritual giants who can almost reach to heaven without trying.
 
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Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
Aug 13, 2014
24,780
8,087
113
#11
INTJer: You reminded me of a cartoon where a church congregation is hastily bailing out of the church, while the preacher is saying from the pulpit, "Don't worry! I'm not really going to preach from the Song of Solomon!"
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,939
4,578
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#12
What are you trying to win?




What about this?
Did anyone condemn you?
Then neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.
"What are you trying to win?"

The person I invited to church is very reluctant to go because of the way they have seen Christians treat people, especially other Christians.

Although I agree this passage can be helpful in some situations, I don't feel it would be appropriate here, seeing as this person is already a repentant, confessed believer of Christ who wants to know how to move further in their calling.

They are just terrified of going to a church for fear of being looked down upon because their faith and knowledge may not match or "be good enough" for the people there.

I don't feel as if I can personally guide this person further along, which is why I invited them to church.
 
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seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,939
4,578
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#13
Just to clarify--I know we often think of someone new to church as being like the woman at the well... married 5 times, living with someone... in other words, someone who is wallowing in sin and needs to come and be washed clean.

The person I invited who is reluctant to go is about as opposite of what we "think" of someone who "needs" church my be. This person is has done a lot of study on their own and openly confesses the repentance of their sins, the belief in Christ as the only way to salvation by dying for us, has probably lived a cleaner life than I have, and knows (and tries to walk out) the principles modeled by Christ, because they know this expresses faith.

You can see why I certainly don't feel I would be the one to help this person to a higher level. But I know a good church can.
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
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Philippines Age 40
#14
I think Christians really tend to appear self righteous even if they don't mean to sometimes. Even Jesus became notorious and hated by a lot of people by being truly righteous. But the important thing is you know your intentions and you think it pleases the Lord. And you practice what you preach, then nothing should bother you.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,939
4,578
113
#16
What are you trying to win?




What about this?
Did anyone condemn you?
Then neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more.

Sorry to keep posting on the same thought but I keep getting interrupted and can't finish in one post.

While this passage ("Did anyone condemn you? Then neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more,") is one of my favorites, I tend to say something like, "You know what, I've messed up a lot in my life, but God forgave me. I used to talk to inmates convicted for murder, I know what when repentance is sincere, God forgives them, so as you can see, no sin is too great for God to forgive... and He calls us to change the things in our lives that our causing us to sin."

I always try to put the spotlight on myself and my own sins when talking to someone in this manner so that they won't think I'm trying to sound like I think I'm above them or judging them as a sinner... but that's just my own personal style. I feel that if I don't personally mention the fact that I myself sin, I come across as thinking I am somehow "sinless" while certainly not hesitating to point out another person's sin!

As I said, this person is unique in that I believe, from everything they have told me, they are a Christian but might not be completely aware of it (not realizing that what they believe is what the Christian faith believes and identifying with it) and is being called into fellowship and personal ministry identification.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
14,939
4,578
113
#17
Here is a rather remarkable message - this is quite different from the usual contradictory message of "Jesus will save you unconditionally but now you must do this to earn God's favor or else."

The Gospel For Those Broken By The Church - 1517 The Legacy Project
INTJ--thank you so much for this link--I listened to it this morning.

I admit to cringing at first when the speaker mentioned that perhaps one of the problems was that there wasn't much theology left in the church, because I thought to myself, "Oh here we go, another lecture on how Christians don't really want to hear the truth..." Please forgive my premature judgmental self!!!

I LOVED what this pastor had to say and found myself laughing in agreement when he apologizes for "Lutheran Pietism" because I was raised Lutheran and went to Lutheran schools. I was also shocked to hear about Luther ordering, then quickly trying to recant (but doing so too late), the slaughter of revolutionary peasants (surprise, surprise, they never mentioned that in church history during Catechism.)

When I invite people to church, the two biggest hesitations have always been, "Christians are hypocrites. All the people I know who go to church never practice what they preach," and the second biggest reason is that they have either personally or witnessed others being slandered/gossiped about within the church.

I have bookmarked this sermon and know it will be a valuable future reference to be listened to again and passed on. Thanks again!
 
Aug 2, 2009
24,572
4,261
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#18
Hey everyone,

Thank you so much for bearing with me and this will be my last thread of this series.

Have you ever felt as if, as a Christian, you just can't win, no matter how hard you try?

Here's what I mean: as I've written, many of the letters I've received about my threads from men who are trying to "correct" me or "make me see the truth" will give a long list of how most people in the church choose to remain blind (except them, of course.) They talk about people's lack of humility and how others brag about all their good deeds, but that they, unlike the rest of the guilty, don't do this. And I do give them credit for bringing up some valid points. But in the end, they always end their letters to me with classic correctional phrases such as this (direct quote): "Just try and look at things through God's eyes before using human eyes."

Sigh. I understand what they're trying to say. I really do. But why do I always feel the frustration of "Christians condemning other Christians" (who don't even know each other) after I've read what they have to say? In other words, I feel that they, not God, but these men only, have personally judged and condemned what they see as me being "one of those unsaved Christians who chooses the world over God" and they don't even know me.

This is something I HATE about Christianity. YOU. JUST. CAN'T. WIN. If you don't talk much, people assume you're not much of a believer: "Do you even read your Bible or pray???!" "Are you bringing in the masses for Christ?" And if you DO talk about your experiences, people say, "OH, YOU certainly won't receive any glory from God because the Bible says you should keep your good deeds between just you and your Father!!" Just the other day, I shared some things I thought might help encourage others in a particular situation and a poster slammed me for supposedly thinking that I am so ahead and above others that I was putting myself in a position in which I could speak down to others by giving them advice.

SIGH. I wasn't trying to look down on anyone, I was trying to say, "It's ok to get help."

BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I SAY OR DO, I JUST CAN'T WIN.

Several years ago, we had some regular posters who were constantly "correcting" other users in almost every thread. Out of curiosity, I wrote a thread asking how many people invited others to church. Interestingly, one of these very outspoken "correctors" said, "Oh, I don't ask people to church. I feel it would be too forward and intrusive into their lives." Wow. Now, I'm NOT saying that everyone has to ask someone to church.

What I AM trying to say is reflected in my new signature--so many Christians seem to think that if other people don't have the SAME gifting or perspective or level of problems or knack for quoting Scripture as they do, they obviously must be hell-bound heathens. I get so frustrated when others don't heed the oft-repeated principle: that we all strive for a PERSONAL relationship with God. As in, His work will look a little different in EVERYONE'S lives.

You've all been so gracious to bear with me this long. Please allow me to tell you why I feel so frustrated today.

One of the things God has enabled me to do is invite people to church. It's not a very speedy process--sometimes I'll know a person 2 years before I'm comfortable asking--but do you know why I wait so long? Because by then, I have a history with the person. I know their kids' names, their interests and hobbies, their personal background that may or may not include church... I build a foundation with the person and THEN I ask, because I am concerned about people feeling as if they are nothing but someone's spiritual notch on a heavenly report card.

And no, I am NOT trying to boast or somehow imply I'm ahead of anyone else. I suppose some Christians would say that surely I couldn't lead anyone to Christ--I'm too much of a snob or too set in my worldly ways! Sigh. Again, we all have DIFFERENT callings, and this--not correcting people, not quoting 8 Scriptures off the top of my head, not pointing out everything wrong with the church--just happens to be one of mine. Several years ago a Christian friend and I recruited enough co-workers to go with us to fill an entire pew (and one of them wound up joining the church.) These were people we knew who normally partied every weekend. But we had built a long-standing friendship with them, and God opened their hearts to our invitation. Yet many Christians don't see this because I don't tell them, and they then assume I have fatal flaws in my walk with Christ.

Now, don't get me wrong--not everyone says yes when I ask them to church. I've heard plenty of NO's as well, and that's fine--part of the learning process. My main concern is creating a comfortable, inviting atmosphere. They're already feeling God call them--I see my job as taking them through the next steps so that they don't have do it alone. I pick them up or meet them, am there with them for the entire service, give them a few dollars for the offering plate so they won't feel awkward, answer any questions (for example, they may wonder about communion if they've never seen it before), and usually take them to lunch or coffee if they want to talk about what happened. It's something I really enjoy.

HOWEVER. Here is my dilemma. As I said, I am NOT trying to boast. Rather, I am ASKING FOR YOUR HELP, because just this week, God opened a huge door. Not one, but two people I've met in this area told me ON THE SAME DAY that they felt God calling them... but were unsure of what to do next. Neither has a church history. OF COURSE, I invited both to church. The funny thing is, I'm new to the area and looking for a church myself (but have one in mind as I've been there about 3 times myself.) This actually gave me the perfect opportunity, because I told them, "You know what, I'm looking for a church myself... if you have one in mind, I'd be happy to go with you, if not, you're welcome to come to the one I've been checking out with me." One accepted without hesitation.

However, you can imagine my utter heartbreak, when the second one said, "NO, NO, NO, I could never go to a church. I know how people are in church. They're going to look at me and tell me that because I don't know the Bible as well as they do or because I don't have their kind of faith or because I'm not doing God's work as well as they are... that I'm going to go to hell. I could never go to a church because the people there would never see me (my faith and place where I am right now in Christ) as being good enough." I could have sworn this person must have been hanging out in the Bible Forum!!!

Part of me wanted to yell, "AMEN!!!!" in agreement. It was as if this person was living out my own recent experiences with other Christians. And you know me, I believe in being real with people. I couldn't lie. And so, in reply, I said, "Yes, you are absolutely right in some ways and I know exactly what you're saying, but not everyone is like that. Why not come and at least give it a try?" After about a 15-minute conversation, this person said that if I was willing to go with them, they would give it a shot. You bet I'll be there!!! We exchanged numbers and plan to go the first Sunday our schedules allow.

But all the way home, I hung my head, and I told God I felt like a hypocrite, because I feel exactly the same way as they do. While negative experiences make me appreciate my good Christian friends all the more, part of me is utterly disgusted and doesn't want to be around Christians at all for a while, let alone try to help someone else at a crucial state in their calling to move forward, because this person is very curious about my own church history, and I will not lie or pretty things up.

I feel very protective of the people I invite to church. Part of me wants to wield some sort of weapon to protect them from the group of blood-thirsty, "You'd Better Be Good Enough" Christians inside the building. In college I invited a group of my friends (some who were agnostic and even atheist) and when we walked outside, the first thing that happened was a church member yelled at one of my friends for lighting up a cigarette. SIGH. I understand smoking wasn't allowed on church property but... What a first impression for someone trying to come to learn about the Lord. Another girl I knew invited her friends... and some church members drew back from shaking her hand when they saw she had a tattoo. Things like this anger me to no end. I went and introduced myself to this girl, giving her a big hug, and telling her to please come back any time.

I just pray I'll be able to say the right things to this young person who is so hungry for God. But I won't cover anything up, either, and I will tell them what they can expect to face as a Christian. Especially. From. Other. Christians.

What do you all of you do when your faith is being slammed or you are being called too worldly... by "brothers and sisters in Christ?" How would you help someone who wants to know God but is afraid of the church and the sword-wielding Christians who dwell there?

What would you do to help someone in this situation?
Titus 3:9 (NIV)

But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.


Titus 3:10-11 (NASB)

Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
 
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INTJer

Guest
#19
Seoulsearch, I'm glad you liked the message in the link. Yes, for a minute it sounds like another "you had better do this or you will never earn God's favor" type of message, then he gets into a message about grace.

I was raised a Lutheran, also. I left one Lutheran denomination as it became too liberal for me. I couldn't quite join a more conservative Lutheran denomination as there were a couple of ultra conservative issues I couldn't accept. Still, I like Lutheranism. I think they have a lot of great ideas, such as the Lutheran view of vocation. I now go to an Anglican church that is pretty conservative - the liturgy is similar to what I grew up with as a Lutheran.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,551
2,171
113
#20
Seoulsearch Nice thread

I had been laid off my job of 25 years in the end of June 2013, and in October I stumbled upon Christian Chat and joined up thinking wow people who love God from all over the world and all different religions this is going to be fun and one big happy family....

Oopsey....my bad within two weeks of joining my first chat site ever and still testing the waters of how to navigate the site I was called a Judaizer....I'm like what? What is that and how can I be one if I don't know what it means? It first hurt my feelings and then I went on the defensive at the end of the night and I was talking to God about it I realized that I should pray that my responses would be a reflection of what Jesus might say. So I prayed for the people on the site and that I would always respond in a loving and kind way while still standing for what I believe is truth.

I had been on the site for a little while and ran into someone that bullied me into telling what my denomination is which is Seventh Day Adventist I am not ashamed of it, but to some it is quite a turn off. At any rate the person said I had or was a demon and that if I didn't change my denomination I was going to hell. My response to him was that they also accused Jesus of being or having a demon so I guess I was in good company. I looked at his profile and found I was his only friend and mentioned that to him at which point he demanded that I remove myself as his friend. To which I said you may remove me if you want but I won't delete you as a friend. He deleted me and that is o.k.

I learned then that sometimes Christians don't play very nice and that I should not take things personally as they are really not attacking me but Jesus. Satan will use any form of hurt he can even if it means Christians hurting Christians. Don't let him get to you as they are just being used as a weapon to discourage. I wondered where is all the love they preach in the two New Testament commandments?

I look at all of us on this site as on different rungs of the ladder we have a different understanding about God and His love some of us are babies and we are near the bottom and some are a little higher and know more than we do, but all those on that ladder are sinners and have asked for forgiveness and have given their hearts to Jesus.

So I guess my question would be - Why are we as Christians still hurting each other instead of lending a helping hand and accepting that we are on a different rung of the ladder?