The Elephant in the Room

[Jullianna]

Due to the impact of a recent news story, many people have been talking about domestic violence once again. MOST people agree that it is not okay for a man to abuse a woman in ANY way. Period. Ever. So that is NOT the topic of this thread.

I want to talk about SOMETHING ELSE for a moment. Something most people dance around. Yep.....I'm gonna go there...

THE QUESTION OF THIS THREAD:

Why does it seem to be okay in our society for women to shove/hit/slap/verbally abuse men?


Let's try to keep this on track if we can without going down the rabbit trails of "victim blaming", etc., as this is not in any way the topic of this thread (implied, inferred or otherwise).

The SOLE topic is:

IS IT OKAY FOR A WOMAN TO ABUSE A MAN IN ANY WAY?


FOR THE RECORD: I'm for stamping out domestic violence in ALL of its forms: husbands, wives, children, aging parents, BFs/GFs and/or anyone else. Period.

 

[Jullianna]

Food for thought..........

 

[jennymae]

I dont think abuse of any kind is okay. But, as you say, folks dont admit to the fact that women can be abuser's too. Evidence, on the other hand, can be more difficult to find whenever a woman is the abuser. Often there are no bruiser's, no broken arm etc, just emotional damage, which can be as bad sometimes. Not to mention men rarely ever report domestic violence to nobody. I have heard stories from men, highly trustable men, about women hitting them, verbally abusing them, spitting on them etc. I was surprised in a way, but when thats said, I can recollect funny stories about women hitting their husbands, or yelling at them in front of everybody. Problem was, and probably still is, folks was just laughing at that poor guy with that mean wife. And why? Maybe they didnt really believe it. I dont know.

Men should not let this go unreported of, but I am aware of, that most men dont want to report domestic violence because it is embarrasing. I wonder how many cases where a man is on trial for domestic violence the woman is as much to blame.

 

[Inu]

I agree with jennymae. The bible speaks about men and woman equally created. God has given us dominion over all the earth, animals, plants... you name it but not dominion over each other.

Bottom line, it is wrong to physically, emotionally, verbally, sexually abuse another human being(btw I think it's wrong on animals too)... to abuse another person, is an act of disrespect, not only to that person but to God Himself... you are insulting a creation of God, You are saying to Him that " I think You created trash"... When we apply the love of God to our lives, even insults to one another that are aimed at hurting the other person or belittling them, shouldn't be apart of us...

 

[amymine712]

I disagree with domestic violence in any form wether it's physical, sexual, mental, verbal or neglect. No it's not ok for a woman to abuse a man. They should be reported and suffer the same consequences as men do.

 

[ChandlerFan]

It's hard to talk about one side without talking about the other, but here is what I would say. Domestic violence is not okay no matter what the gender of the offender is, however I think that domestic violence on the part of males is given more attention because it happens more regularly and because it's almost always a case of the physically stronger person doing the abusing, which makes it that much more egregious. I'm not saying that the punishments shouldn't be equal for both, though.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I think the reason men don't report it so much is that they fear the police won't believe them. In other words, they'd say "You're the man but your WIFE did this?" I think domestic abuse, physical abuse, whatever, is more often than not, blamed on the man. Are women capable of physically abusing their husbands/bf's? Of course they are. I think the idea is that the man is stronger, therefore HE is the one who abuses. I believe the view that most people take on abuse of a man is that the woman is'nt capable of it without getting into a physical punch-fest with the guy.

Do more women hit men or vice-versa? I don't know but that would be a good thing to do some research on. LOL.

 

[JesusLives]

As a Christian our goal each day should be to become more and more like Jesus and violence and domestic abuse should be no where in our thinking or vocabulary, but alas we live on a sinful planet and abuse flies everywhere and no one is totally safe from it.

My daughter's boyfriend has been so bullied by his ex-wife that even though he has been paying regular child support for years his son at 10 years old has never spent the night with his father because of the tight control ex-wife has. Ray is finally after all these years getting a lawyer and going to fight to have the custodial rights that he deserves to have with his son. But to me this is also a form of abuse and it has taken many people to encourage Ray to take this step to have more rights with his son. Prayers have been said for all involved in this situation as it is so sad and who is the real victim in this situation? It is Dustin the child.....

Abuse is wrong in any form and should not be used against anyone.

 

[Ho11y]

I was watching a show a couple months back. I can't remember the name of it, but there were two situations. The first was where a man was in public ''abusing'' a woman. It was all scripted so he wasn't actually hurting her. He was pulling on her arm, getting in her face, shoving her. When people saw this they immediately came to the woman's defense and pulled the man away from her.

The second scenario was a woman in public ''abusing'' a man. She was in his face putting him down, calling him names, smacking and pushing him. When people saw this they stood by and laughed. Not one person came over to his defense. People just stared most of them laughing about it.

When i was 19 one of my brothers was married shortly to a woman who was verbally and physically abusive. There was one night in particular my brother called my sisters and i after his wife had gotten really physical with him. When we got to my brother and his wife's house.. his face was bleeding and busted up. While i'm sorry now for what my sisters and i did to his wife that night. I'm not sorry we stepped in for him.
He loved her so much and was so afraid she would leave him that he just kinda took anything she did. She had emasculated him to the point that when she did get physical with him he felt like he couldn't even fight back. Thankfully they divorced not long after that.

I think a woman hitting a man is more acceptable in some people's eyes because a man could easily defend himself. Where as a woman... it wouldn't be so easy. Not saying we couldn't, but if you're 5'5 and 130 and you've got a man whose 6'0 and 180 trying to hurt you... well, flat out, you're gonna get hurt.

Please don't twist around what i'm saying. It's never acceptable for either gender to hit each other, but i think it's over looked more because men are naturally the stronger sex and would have an easier time putting a stop to it than a woman would.

 

[Roh_Chris]

I think abuse of any kind is wrong - whether against a man, a woman or an animal. But the reason why abuse against men is not highlighted so much is because society portrays a man as being strong and dominant. A man being abused by his wife does not fit that picture. So it is rarely brought out into the open. Any man who wants to talk about it is likely to be hounded by society for the rest of his life.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I was watching a show a couple months back. I can't remember the name of it, but there were two situations. The first was where a man was in public ''abusing'' a woman. It was all scripted so he wasn't actually hurting her. He was pulling on her arm, getting in her face, shoving her. When people saw this they immediately came to the woman's defense and pulled the man away from her.

The second scenario was a woman in public ''abusing'' a man. She was in his face putting him down, calling him names, smacking and pushing him. When people saw this they stood by and laughed. Not one person came over to his defense. People just stared most of them laughing about it.

When i was 19 one of my brothers was married shortly to a woman who was verbally and physically abusive. There was one night in particular my brother called my sisters and i after his wife had gotten really physical with him. When we got to my brother and his wife's house.. his face was bleeding and busted up. While i'm sorry now for what my sisters and i did to his wife that night. I'm not sorry we stepped in for him.
He loved her so much and was so afraid she would leave him that he just kinda took anything she did. She had emasculated him to the point that when she did get physical with him he felt like he couldn't even fight back. Thankfully they divorced not long after that.

I think a woman hitting a man is more acceptable in some people's eyes because a man could easily defend himself. Where as a woman... it wouldn't be so easy. Not saying we couldn't, but if you're 5'5 and 130 and you've got a man whose 6'0 and 180 trying to hurt you... well, flat out, you're gonna get hurt.

Please don't twist around what i'm saying. It's never acceptable for either gender to hit each other, but i think it's over looked more because men are naturally the stronger sex and would have an easier time putting a stop to it than a woman would.

I think the show you're speaking of is called "What Would You Do?". They hire actors to portray real situations, to see if people will get involved and defend or whatever, or see if they just sit there and ignore it. I've seen several of their episodes.

 

[MissCris]

Little boys are taught not to hit girls. I remember hearing my mom tell my little brother that a lot growing up. I know she told my sister and I not to hit our brother, but I don't remember near so many instances of that, and the main issue with us hitting him was that he was younger, smaller than we were. But for him? "You don't hit girls", "Boys can't hit girls", "You should never hit a girl".

I wonder why it wasn't "Don't hit ANYONE"? I don't know.

My mom, for a long time, would physically and verbally attack my step-dad when they'd argue. She didn't punch him, or kick, or scratch- it was more often getting in his face and jabbing him repeatedly, or slapping him upside the head, or pushing him while screaming at him. She stopped this at some point, which I'm glad and proud of her for...but at the time...well, it was horrible to listen to, but I don't recall thinking it was so bad for her to smack him or push him, because he towered over her. It wasn't like she could really do any damage. Right?

No. It was wrong, and the more I see of abusive relationships, the more wrong I think her actions were. My step-dad never defended himself, physically. Most of the time he would just leave.

I went to beauty school with a girl who I became friends with. My husband and I hung out with her and her husband all the time over that summer. They obviously were struggling, financially- but they seemed pretty happy together. We went on a camping trip with them in early fall that year, and that's the first time we caught any hint that things were bad with them. We could hear them whisper-fighting most of the night. A week or so after we'd gotten home from that trip, her husband and my husband went out for drinks and we found out that she'd been abusing him for years (they dated in high school and got married as soon as she graduated). In this case, he was a heck of a lot smaller than she was, and thinking back, I can see the signs of what was going on- the control issues on her part, her always talking over him and making him look foolish or stupid, her ignoring him or doing things to try to make him angry and then acting extremely hurt when he'd finally snap. He never told anyone because...gosh, that would be embarrassing, wouldn't it? She had completely emasculated this guy. They got divorced shortly after this; he went into the military and re-married, and she got married to someone twice her size (I've often wondered if she ever tries to push him around...I don't keep in touch with her, so I have no idea if her abusive behavior has stopped or if her new husband is also her new victim).

My aunt and uncle got into a fight a long time ago...my uncle called her a pretty awful name, and my aunt threw a frying pan at him. He called the cops, in the hopes that they could just diffuse the situation. Despite having the mark and pretty big bump from the frying pan, my uncle was arrested. Because my aunt said she was afraid what he would do.

It's no wonder men don't speak up about being abused. All a woman has to say, if the cops become involved, is that she's afraid of him, or that she was defending herself, and she's off the hook?

I have, actually, seen a handful of episodes of COPS where the woman started a fight with her boyfriend/husband, hurt him, and was taken to jail. It DOES happen. But more often than not, I think the woman walks free.

To answer the question(s)-

No, it's not okay for women to abuse men. Why society so often either finds it funny, ignores it, or enables it even...honestly, I haven't got any ideas aside from what's already been mentioned, that maybe people think men should be capable of defending themselves, or that because women are typically smaller/"weaker" than men, that it's no big deal, or...

I don't know.

All I know is...if you're in this situation, guys...get out. You don't even have to tell anyone why. Just go. Get away from the situation. You don't have to live like that, nobody does. You can decide what to do with a clearer mind once you've taken yourself out of the abusive environment, but take that first step to protect yourself.

 

[EmethAlethia]

After my wife hauled off and punched me with all her might, with my back turned, I turned, looked at her, and calmly punched a hole through both sides of an interior wall. I stated, "If you EVER hit me again, I will hit you back. I will not pull my punch. If you live, I will prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law. (Note: the one who hits first goes to jail.) I said, "I love you. I will never strike you ... first. I will not tolerate ANY physical abuse." It took a few hours to patch the walls. We put a picture over each side as the patches didn't completely match. From that day forward, whenever things started to get heated, just one look at the wall was enough to calm things back down again.

Some people want to believe that "turning the other cheek" when they are being abused. is a Christian teaching. Actually that passage is about the Pharisees teaching that to be slapped on one cheek was twice the offense of slapping someone on the other. A backhand was worse than getting slapped with the palm.


Keep in mind that we are not talking about leave a red mark slaps. Remember the old movies where a man removes his gloves, gently taps his opponent in both cheeks with them, and they start to duel? Well that practice was a carry over from this Pharisaical thinking. If you got both cheeks with a gentle tap, this was the highest level of offense.


This passage is about enduring "insults", not about allowing yourself to be physically abused.

 

[kenthomas27]

I was abused!! It happened to me!!! ...wow.. I couldn't be more honored...first I'd like to thank the academy and JULLIANNA, THIS IS YOURS TOO!!.........oh..wait. ok.

Several years ago I had gone out a few times with this girl who shall remain nameless (not because I don't want to name her, it's a homeland security thing...) anyway, she would get angry and pout. She wouldn't say anything. She would cross her arms and legs and look in another direction and be all pout-y and that was it. One time she backhanded a glass off a table but those were the only indicators. I knew she had a short fuse, but nothing more. So I was driving with her as a passenger and she was in her pout mode up against the passenger side door and I was just driving, looking over at her now and then when I asked "are you done?". This unleashed pure rage and she jumped on my side and began clawing and hitting me about my face. It was like a cat in my face. WHILE I WAS DRIVING. ON THE INTERSTATE. A CAT.

So - I pushed her off me, still driving, and she goes back to pouting and crying in the corner and I took that crazy woman back home. She apologized and all and she didn't hurt me but.... no. Not a quality girl.

As a caveat to this story, and I'm not accusing anybody of anything here....BUT - what was your first thought when you read this? Was it that it sounds like there might a little more to this story - maybe kenthomas was being a little bit smart with this girl and snide and when he said 'are you done'. It probably would have ticked me off too? Then there's this "pushed her off me" thing, what about that? Pushed her off how? Did he push her hard? Did he hurt her? What was your first thought?

 

[ChandlerFan]

After my wife hauled off and punched me with all her might, with my back turned, I turned, looked at her, and calmly punched a hole through both sides of an interior wall. I stated, "If you EVER hit me again, I will hit you back. I will not pull my punch. If you live, I will prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law. (Note: the one who hits first goes to jail.) I said, "I love you. I will never strike you ... first. I will not tolerate ANY physical abuse." It took a few hours to patch the walls. We put a picture over each side as the patches didn't completely match. From that day forward, whenever things started to get heated, just one look at the wall was enough to calm things back down again.

Some people want to believe that "turning the other cheek" when they are being abused. is a Christian teaching. Actually that passage is about the Pharisees teaching that to be slapped on one cheek was twice the offense of slapping someone on the other. A backhand was worse than getting slapped with the palm.


Keep in mind that we are not talking about leave a red mark slaps. Remember the old movies where a man removes his gloves, gently taps his opponent in both cheeks with them, and they start to duel? Well that practice was a carry over from this Pharisaical thinking. If you got both cheeks with a gentle tap, this was the highest level of offense.


This passage is about enduring "insults", not about allowing yourself to be physically abused.

I don't think this is a good model of reacting to spousal abuse. Retaliation with physical violence will only make the situation worse, never better. If someone has an abusive spouse, they need to get away from that person and figure out what they are going to do next, but hitting back is not the way to go. I would not want my wife living in fear of me, and threatening to hit her (and insinuating that you would do so hard enough to potentially kill her--really??) for any reason is what that would produce.

You are right that we certainly are not called to endure abuse, but that does not mean that we are given the green light to avenge that abuse.

 

[wisebeardman]

problem is, if a female decides to step up to a man like a man and start tossing hits, if the guy defends himself he is going to jail and she will laugh. So long ago I made a rule, ANYONE who swings at me is getting taken out. since id be going to jail anyway I am at least going to get my moneys wroth.

I don't attack anyone unless provoked, but once provoked I don't mess around I eliminate the threat.

 

[1still_waters]

Due to the impact of a recent news story, many people have been talking about domestic violence once again. MOST people agree that it is not okay for a man to abuse a woman in ANY way. Period. Ever. So that is NOT the topic of this thread.

I want to talk about SOMETHING ELSE for a moment. Something most people dance around. Yep.....I'm gonna go there...

THE QUESTION OF THIS THREAD:

Why does it seem to be okay in our society for women to shove/hit/slap/verbally abuse men?


Let's try to keep this on track if we can without going down the rabbit trails of "victim blaming", etc., as this is not in any way the topic of this thread (implied, inferred or otherwise).

The SOLE topic is:

IS IT OKAY FOR A WOMAN TO ABUSE A MAN IN ANY WAY?


FOR THE RECORD: I'm for stamping out domestic violence in ALL of its forms: husbands, wives, children, aging parents, BFs/GFs and/or anyone else. Period.

SUMMARY
Because of three reasons.

1. Because men and women are different.
2. Because some feminists don't want true equality, they want to keep some of the perks that come with being a woman.
3. Male ego, EG male machismo.

EXPLAINED

First, it's because men and women are different. Meaning as a general rule, men are physically stronger than women. It's a greater evil for the stronger to attack the weaker. We tend to focus on the greater evils, and this greater evil stems from the simple biological fact that most men are physically stronger than women. A man hitting a woman is a threat to most. To most a weaker woman hitting a man is not a major threat. That's just how we view things due to biological differences.

Second, it's because some feminists don't want true equality, some want to retain some of the perks of being a woman. One of those perks is a cultural stereotype that women are basically delicate, harmless, and are the only ones who are objects of aggression. This provides a cultural shield for some women to hide behind so they can be abusive to men. Calling for true "equality" would mean women would have to give up their shield and be held accountable for their actions just like a man. At this juncture, some feminists drop their calls for equality, and demand the upholding of stereotypes. They turn from Xena Warrior Princess, to the helpless damsel in distress, who happens to have a knife behind those flowing strands of gorgeous hair.

Third, male machismo, and ego. It's a shot to a man's pride to admit he has been harmed by a woman.

 

[Ugly]

Even though it's not gender related this topic reminds me of a line i heard on King of the Hill last night. Hanks new neighbor, Khan, an Asian had moved in next door. Hank tried to be nice but Khan was pretty much a jerk. So while Hank and his wife were discussing it she told him 'well, he's oriental so you aren't allowed to not like him or everyone will think you hate him because he's Chinese, but if he were white it would be ok'.
I think it is this overall attitude that has become prevalent in the US. That there is this 'role reversal' going on in gender and race. Where, because of wrong behaviors in the past, the new order of things seems to be that those who were once victims (women, minorities) to racial and gender bias are now permitted to do the same things that were done to them.
And especially with the feminist movement i think this concept is pushed even harder for women.

There also seems to be the notion that men being more physical, athletic, etc, by nature, or even just 'tougher' that by hitting them it's not wrong because it's 'normal'. Men play sports, tackle, push, shove, fight, etc.. so how can it be wrong to hit them at home too?

At the end of the day people will always find reasons to justify their behavior. And an abuser is an abuser, regardless of gender. They will share the same thinking, same beliefs, same attitude whether it's do to new changes in culture or just because they're a mean person by nature and culture has no bearing on their behavior.

There is never any excuse for physical, mental, emotional or verbal abuse from either side.

 

[DuchessAimee]

I was abused!! It happened to me!!! ...wow.. I couldn't be more honored...first I'd like to thank the academy and JULLIANNA, THIS IS YOURS TOO!!.........oh..wait. ok.

Several years ago I had gone out a few times with this girl who shall remain nameless (not because I don't want to name her, it's a homeland security thing...) anyway, she would get angry and pout. She wouldn't say anything. She would cross her arms and legs and look in another direction and be all pout-y and that was it. One time she backhanded a glass off a table but those were the only indicators. I knew she had a short fuse, but nothing more. So I was driving with her as a passenger and she was in her pout mode up against the passenger side door and I was just driving, looking over at her now and then when I asked "are you done?". This unleashed pure rage and she jumped on my side and began clawing and hitting me about my face. It was like a cat in my face. WHILE I WAS DRIVING. ON THE INTERSTATE. A CAT.

So - I pushed her off me, still driving, and she goes back to pouting and crying in the corner and I took that crazy woman back home. She apologized and all and she didn't hurt me but.... no. Not a quality girl.

As a caveat to this story, and I'm not accusing anybody of anything here....BUT - what was your first thought when you read this? Was it that it sounds like there might a little more to this story - maybe kenthomas was being a little bit smart with this girl and snide and when he said 'are you done'. It probably would have ticked me off too? Then there's this "pushed her off me" thing, what about that? Pushed her off how? Did he push her hard? Did he hurt her? What was your first thought?

My first thought was "Ken is such a stellar guy! Why was he dating such a crazy chick?" My friend, you need to pick out better girls. And second, you pushing her away was COMPLETELY justified. She went bat crap crazy, you defended yourself, end of story. As for the snide bit, what you said to her may have been untimely, but that doesn't mean she has the right to attempt to rip your face off.


I had a guy hit me once, and I hit him back. He was genuinely surprised that his girlfriend was going to stand up for herself. I didn't leave a mark or anything, but man... he became incredibly angry once his shock wore off.


I think that a woman hitting a man is just as bad as a man hitting a woman. However, I think it's justified for the abused to fight back. If some chick is punching a guy and he fights back, it's understandable. You fight back enough to DISABLE the attacker but not to kill them. Unless they're using deadly force themselves.



For the record, I don't think ANY abuse is warranted and I wouldn't stay with a man who abused me.




Can y'all tell I've been reading police and military publications? I've been studying a lot lately...

 

[arwen-undomiel]

This is sort of related. I was reading some posts on Imgur of some guys who had been raped by women in their life, and no one ever takes the emotional trauma serious. The responses they get is "oh wow, you're lucky!" Or they just laugh or look at them weird like they shouldn't be taking it in a bad way. And the women who do it never get held responsible for their actions.