The Process of Forgiveness

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arwen-undomiel

Guest
#1
#1
In The Lord's Prayer we pray "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

Tonight in church the sermon was on the parable of the kings servant owning money, the servant begged and the king wiped the debt clean from the books and it was forgiven, but when another servant owed that servant money he did not show the same grace. And we are to forgive not 7 times, but seventy times seven times, etc.

Makes sense. I got that. But my question IS: are we to forgive if they do not ask for forgiveness? Or say sorry? For example, when we pray or confess our sins to God, they are wiped clean and they are forgiven (as long as we forgive those of our brothers and sisters). Does God forgive our sins if we do not ask for forgiveness? And are we to forgive others sins if they have not asked for forgiveness?
 
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biscuit

Guest
#2
#2
[h=1]Does the Bible instruct us to forgive and forget?[/h]
Question: "Does the Bible instruct us to forgive and forget?"

Answer: The phrase "forgive and forget" is not found in the Bible. However, there are numerous scriptures commanding us to “forgive one another” (Matthew 6:14; Ephesians 4:32). A Christian who does not forgive can reap bitterness and the loss of eternal rewards (Hebrews 12:14-15; 2 John 1:8). Forgiveness is a decision of the will. Since God commands us to forgive, we must make a conscious choice to forgive. This frees the forgiving one from the past. The offender may not desire forgiveness and may not change (Matthew 5:44). Ideally, the offender will seek reconciliation, but if not, the one wronged should still make known his decision to forgive.

In one sense, it is impossible to truly forget sins that have been committed against us. We cannot selectively "delete" events from our memory. The Bible states that God does not "remember" our wickedness (Hebrews 8:12). God is all-knowing. God knows that we have “sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). However, having forgiven us, He treats us as if the sin had not occurred. If we belong to Him through faith in Christ, God does not hold our sins against us. In that sense we must "forgive and forget." If we forgive someone, we must act as if that sin had never occurred. We remember the sin, but we live as if we did not remember it. Ephesians 4:32 tells us, "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you."

Recommended Resources: The Gift of Forgiveness by Charles Stanley and Logos Bible Software.

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Does the Bible instruct us to forgive and forget?​
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A

arwen-undomiel

Guest
#3
#3
Hmm yeah that not the same thing. It's not a forgive/ forget issue. It's the process. In the parable, it states that the servants had begged, so that tells me that they were aware of their wrong doing/ trespasses and were seeking forgiveness and then it puts it into the hands of the other to show grace to forgive. That's my question.
 
Grace-Like-Rain

Grace-Like-Rain

Senior Member
#4
Sep 6, 2013
4,430
117
63
#4
It doesn't matter whether the offender asked for forgiveness or not, because forgiveness is for our own benefit. When we refuse to forgive, we are harming ourselves spiritually and emotionally.


Also: Forgive them, for they know not what they do. -Jesus
No mention of repentance there.
 
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arwen-undomiel

Guest
#5
#5
Grace-Like-Rain said:
It doesn't matter whether the offender asked for forgiveness or not, because forgiveness is for our own benefit. When we refuse to forgive, we are harming ourselves spiritually and emotionally.


Also: Forgive them, for they know not what they do. -Jesus
No mention of repentance there.
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Ah yeah. That's true.
 
zeroturbulence

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
#6
Aug 2, 2009
24,580
4,268
113
#6
arwen-undomiel said:
In The Lord's Prayer we pray "forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us"

Tonight in church the sermon was on the parable of the kings servant owning money, the servant begged and the king wiped the debt clean from the books and it was forgiven, but when another servant owed that servant money he did not show the same grace. And we are to forgive not 7 times, but seventy times seven times, etc.

Makes sense. I got that. But my question IS: are we to forgive if they do not ask for forgiveness? Or say sorry? For example, when we pray or confess our sins to God, they are wiped clean and they are forgiven (as long as we forgive those of our brothers and sisters). Does God forgive our sins if we do not ask for forgiveness? And are we to forgive others sins if they have not asked for forgiveness?
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When Jesus was on the road to Calvary he prayed, "Forgive them father for they know not what they do." (Luke 23:24 KJV)

I think we should try to remember to pray that silently or quietly whenever we are offended or hurt by those who would not ask forgiveness.
 
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Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#7
Aug 13, 2014
24,913
8,166
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#7
Grace-Like-Rain said:
It doesn't matter whether the offender asked for forgiveness or not, because forgiveness is for our own benefit. When we refuse to forgive, we are harming ourselves spiritually and emotionally.
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My pastor was teaching Sunday School class yesterday morning and said it EXACTLY like Grace-Like-Rain just said it. :)

On the forgiveness of trespasses, I'm reminded of a little girl who was quoting the Lord's prayer and said, "And forgive us our trash passes as we forgive those who passed trash on us..."
 
J

jennymae

Guest
#8
#8
Lynx said:
On the forgiveness of trespasses, I'm reminded of a little girl who was quoting the Lord's prayer and said, "And forgive us our trash passes as we forgive those who passed trash on us..."
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Sometimes a misunderstanding can create wisdom.
 
K

kenthomas27

Guest
#9
#9
jennymae said:
Sometimes a misunderstanding can create wisdom.
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I look for those jennymae! Thanks for helping me find one on a Monday morning. This morning I'm zombie walking up the 7 flights of stairs to work and immediately recognize a problem. There is a door that leads from an underground parking garage to the stairwell (that I'm in). Because the first level has a door to the exterior, the door from the parking area is never locked because it's a fire egress from the parking garage. So, homeless folks sometimes spend the night in the stairwell. No one can access any of the level doors to the interior of the building, but the stairwell is fair play and a certain homeless guy I've seen around will stay overnight. So the other day I came in and saw him laying on the floor and i asked him to gather up his stuff and leave - and he did. Once he was outside, he urinated on the stairwell door. I didn't see him again but this morning I walked up the stairs to this...

trash1.jpg

and walked up further and saw this....

trash2.jpg

and chickenbones all the way up the stairs for 4 flights but who's counting. And I'm assuming the culprit who could not care less if I forgive him or that I will clear his "table" with a broom, but because I'm reminded by a child ............."forgive those who pass trash against us, Lord.".

Now I will pledge allegiance to our flag and to the republic for Richard Stands.
 
C

chri5tdrumm3r

Banned
#10
Aug 21, 2014
84
0
0
#10
Wow.... that *seems* to be done completely out of spite. There really is no sense in having to clean that up (in my opinion), but I'm not really sure what could be done about it. Best of luck finding a resolution, and if there's an ounce of "character" in this man, he will feel some sort of guilt for what he did.
 
A

arwen-undomiel

Guest
#11
#11
kenthomas27 said:
I look for those jennymae! Thanks for helping me find one on a Monday morning. This morning I'm zombie walking up the 7 flights of stairs to work and immediately recognize a problem. There is a door that leads from an underground parking garage to the stairwell (that I'm in). Because the first level has a door to the exterior, the door from the parking area is never locked because it's a fire egress from the parking garage. So, homeless folks sometimes spend the night in the stairwell. No one can access any of the level doors to the interior of the building, but the stairwell is fair play and a certain homeless guy I've seen around will stay overnight. So the other day I came in and saw him laying on the floor and i asked him to gather up his stuff and leave - and he did. Once he was outside, he urinated on the stairwell door. I didn't see him again but this morning I walked up the stairs to this...

View attachment 88382

and walked up further and saw this....

View attachment 88383

and chickenbones all the way up the stairs for 4 flights but who's counting. And I'm assuming the culprit who could not care less if I forgive him or that I will clear his "table" with a broom, but because I'm reminded by a child ............."forgive those who pass trash against us, Lord.".

Now I will pledge allegiance to our flag and to the republic for Richard Stands.
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Buy whatever he got, fried chicked legs or whatever and leave the box at the step. Don't punish. Like the king in Jesus's parable, do what is most unexpected.
 
A

arwen-undomiel

Guest
#12
#12
When you think of it the servant in the story owed the King (what would be in our currency) close to a billon dollars. For a King to just wipe that clean is crazy.
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#13
Aug 13, 2014
24,913
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#13
I agree with arwen's idea, but make it something with less mess to leave around... and something less perishable. A box of crackers maybe, or a case of vienna sausages...

Though I have to admit it's easier to agree with arwen's idea when I'm not the one sweeping up the bones. But I clean up other people's messes every work day when I sweep the trash up from the lot - people can be downright messy and careless sometimes.
 
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arwen-undomiel

Guest
#14
#14
Lynx said:
I agree with arwen's idea, but make it something with less mess to leave around... and something less perishable. A box of crackers maybe, or a case of vienna sausages...

Though I have to admit it's easier to agree with arwen's idea when I'm not the one sweeping up the bones. But I clean up other people's messes every work day when I sweep the trash up from the lot - people can be downright messy and careless sometimes.
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Yeah perhaps something less messy, but nourishing. I was just say chicken cus we know the person would eat chicken. It's protein and a warm meal. Crackers have no nutrition to them. But I wonder... You ever hear of the term don't bite the hand that feeds you? Well, I would gather that the messes would cease after a while. But still... A billion dollars. I know it's easy for me to say since I am not in your shoes, kent.
 
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Abster

Guest
#15
#15
Ive come.to learn that you shouldn't wait on someone to be sorry before you to grant them forgiveness. Forgiveness is just as much for you as it is for the person you are forgiving..when you hold on to that hurt, anger, etc. you are allowing yourself to be bound. That person may be strolling through life pausing to smell each and every rose while you're using breathing techniques to manage your emotions. God is Lord of all things, dont give that power to any man. Im not saying you do...I'm just sharing my view and my tone is passionate because I learned this after holding on to hurt for many years. Forgiveness set me free.
 
Stephen63

Stephen63

Banned
#16
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
#16
Yes we are to forgive.... but trust starts all over again from scratch. Trust has to be earned. Fruits of repentance gains trust. This is why John the Baptist said these words:
Matthew 3:7-8 (KJV) [SUP]7 [/SUP]But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? [SUP]8 [/SUP]Bring forth therefore fruits meet(necessary) for repentance:

We cannot begin to trust the person again until we see the evidence.
 
Lynx

Lynx

Folksy yet erudite
#17
Aug 13, 2014
24,913
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#17
Naturally. But you can forgive someone without trusting him. Forgiveness does not mean making yourself a door mat. That's why you have a memory, so you can use the past as precedent to guard yourself against future harm.

If someone disses me on a forum, for example, I can forgive him... but keep in mind to avoid speaking to him any more.
 
Liamson

Liamson

Senior Member
#18
Feb 3, 2010
3,078
69
48
#18
Forgiveness does not equal reconciliation.

It doesn't even mean repentance.

It simply means to hold no charge against someone.

It doesn't have to be conditional in any way.


With all that said however, real forgiveness does not Lord over the person it forgives. If I have forgiven someone it is wrong of me to disrespect them by bringing it up again.


This is Grace. Yes, you have wronged me and will probably wrong me again, but I do not hold it against you, because I have forgiven you for that. And I will be gracious with you, not seeking revenge or retribution. Not so that I might hold myself above you morally, but with the hope that you will repent and sin against me no more.
 
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