The Whole Doctrine of HELL - My Uncertainty... Here's Why

[gomlbrobro]

Okay... I guess I'll post it in the main forum as well.

 

[pwrnJC]

First of all...in the beginning, there was NO hell. GOD declared everything "GOOD". Guess what...an annointed cheribum named lucifer and his followers changed history forever. When they were cast out of heaven, hell was created for those fallen angels. Angels cannot be 'killed" because they have NO breath of life in them...they are spirits. Those that do not follow JESUS CHRIST automatically are inducted in satan's personal entourage. GOD does not send anybody to hell, they send themselves.

 

[kingerik]

This is a cut above the usual post! I know that there is a verse that says God will lead those who have never heard of jesus through their conscience , romans 2:15, and that is what their judged by. The problem is that you have to Remind yourself that Everyone is DESERVING of hell. It is only by HIS grace that we are able to have salvation. Does that mean that their are going to be nice people in hell, yep. Atheist, yep, agnostic, yep, and everyone else who hasn't accepted Christ into their hearts besides the people who don't know who he is yet. It's not unfair because that is what we were destined for before jesus came and died for us, unfairness doesn't exist because hell was our rightful home to begin with... to regards of your last question, people can cut their life short being out of the will of God and in their stupidity.

 

[kaylagrl]

I have been a Christian all of my life and go to Church every week. I try to live a healthy, Christian lifestyle as a teen (and that can be quite difficult in this day and age). I am 18, live in America, and have a loving family that cares about me. This is just an intro... I am not going to confess my life story; this is just to give you a perspective in to my argument so I don't get comments like, "Your mind and body is not in Christ!", or "You are deceived!".

Don't get me wrong, I am not questioning the existence of God here, just his motives. I believe in the Christian God with no reasonable doubt, as I believe there is more than sufficient evidence for a willing observer to accept it.

Okay, now here is my problem with the concept of hell, which is possibly the number one reason many people have a problem with Christianity.

A loving, just God would not send people to hell mainly because it is simply unfair. Now many people say this, but hear this out from a Christian, objective eye...

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1. First, we must note that everyone is shaped by his/her environment. Parents, friends, government, socioeconomic and many more shapes each individual's perspective on life and beliefs in general - no matter that belief may be. For example, if you have obese parents, you will most likely be overweight. If you were abused as a child, it will be difficult to trust other's interest in you wellbeing. If you were brought up with violence, say in a gang or a cult, you will most likely take part in that. If you are taught to think independently, you will, and vice versa. (There are many more examples that I can think of, and you as well, but the point I'm making is that the first sentence in this paragraph is very true.) And finally, which is my ultimate premise, if you are brought up to have Christian beliefs, it will be much easier for you to be accustom to those views.
If and individual was born in Africa, India, China, or Syria you will be accustom to believe the religion that is affiliated with hat area.
If we as Christians assume the judgment of hell is based on the regime you are brought up in, something isn't right.
A defender might say, "Oh well, they always have a chance in their heart to change!". You might, in defense, say that they must have heard of Christ at least one time in their life, and even if they didn't, the holy spirit would guide them.
Okay... Say this is the case (which in my opinion is not always)... But is it fair that these people have a much more difficult time accepting the truth. A child born in India will have a much easier time accepting Hinduism as the truth than an alternate belief, like Christianity. They have their parents and friends to conform to - something which holds valuable to us as human beings.

2. This reason is somewhat linked to the first, hence much of what I've said above will not be repeated so much here. I have explained that the environment as it relates to a certain regime can shape a person's views with ease (if you are willing to be subjective to an alternate belief, that is), but an environment also impacts one's overall attitude and phycological state. Abuse, rape, deceit, neglect, hate ect. These are all prevalent themes in this age... Do you think these horrific themes in your life would change you? Do you think you would be as willing to accept a higher power that claims to "care about you"?
Now let me be clear, I as a Christian, am not so uneducated on these scenarios and am aware of the power of the devil on this impressionable world. I do, however, believe it would be hard for a non-believer to accept these facts.
Again, this leads to my premise stated before: Is it fair that this environment in which a child is brought up to live in, which is out of his/her control, will still warrant an eternal pit of fire if they are reasonably (in my opinion) not so apt to believe in God?

3. Another environmental impact that is out of our control, that we must consider, is the time period are brought to this world. Could it be that it was easier to believe in God in past centuries, where such violence, hate, humanism, and other worldly impactors did not exist to the extent that we have to endure? Is this fair?

4. Another small reason that I would like to point out, which kind of ties to number one, is that there is not sufficient evidence for people in certain countries to prove God's existence. There are instances where people have never even heard of God, but I believe surely God will forgive them (I hope you believed that before reading this). This is not what I am talking about.
For people like me, with a systematic mind that relies on evidence for proof to believe something. That's just how I was created, and that's fine, but someone like me who doesn't have access to the internet or books will have a hard time accepting God's existence. Not a big issue, but is this fair?

5. Let's talk about accepting Jesus right before you die. Recently, I saw in theaters, "Do you Believe?". At least twice it had people who were accepting Jesus Christ as their savior right before death, and of course because of this, they would therefore go to heaven and be spared from hell. What's significant is that they had a Christian with them when they died, and this is what caused them to accept Jesus right before death. What I am getting at is: is it fair to someone who didn't have that faithful pastor or Christian friend next to them when they died? Just because these people had the convenience of having these Christians around when they said their last words, they are spared from eternal punishment in a lake of fire. Others, good luck! That pastor or Christian friend are at home sleeping! Sorry!

6. On that note, is it fair that young atheists have these "all-of-the-sudden" deaths such as being caught in a fire, car accidents, and other tragedies don't have the rest of their lives as a chance to accept Jesus?

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All of these points lead me to believe, along with the fact that our God loves each and every one of us, that the doctrine of hell misled, or even false. Think of it this way: Could God have injected the concept of hell to better us as believers? For many, the consequences of hell are to much to bare for a Christian - who will, in turn, go out and spread to gospel so prevent the horrible alternative to heaven - or the unbeliever - who will, in turn, believe in God to avoid it. The spreading and acceptance of the gospel could be the reason for this unreasonable projection.


After reading all of my response, with contemplation and pondering I might add, I would like to hear your take on this delicate observation.

I do not wish to offend you but I read your reasons for not believing in hell. Pretty much I see the same thread through it all.A just God would not send people to hell.But in fact it is the opposite, how could a just God NOT send people to hell? How could a God who requires His people to be pure and live their lives dedicated to Him,sacrifice the pleasures of this world to follow His will,how could He then say "surprise, in the end you all get the same reward !" You are questioning Gods plan of salvation and His justness. God is completely just,you can be sure of that.

You mentioned not all people have books and the internet.People down through the ages have not had access to books and a computer,but knowing God is a heart thing,not a head thing.I read of a missionary who went to a very remote village to share the gospel.When he arrived the head man in the village said they knew about God and knew the missionary would be sent to them to teach them more. They had been told in a dream.The missionary was shocked that God had gotten there before him! God creates the need to know him in each heart. The Bible says "if you seek you will find" Dont think God is not faithful! He will come to those seeking Him no matter how remote,how desolate the place. He does not need books,tv and computers to reveal Himself.

You mention people who have been abused.Years ago a man came to our church.He was horribly abused by his father,locked in a room and starved.He found God and he preaches all over about his experiences and how he found God.I personally know people who were raised in abusive homes and found God.He is there to comfort and answer all who seek Him.

The Bible is very clear about hell....

Matt.25 - Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Rev.20-14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Luke 16-19“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
22“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.24So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’25“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’27“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’29“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’30“ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’31“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

Matt 13-41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Rev 20- Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presenceoearth and sky fled away, and pno place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and qbooks were opened. Then another book was opened, which is rthe book of life. And sthe dead were judged by what was written in the books, taccording to what they had done. 13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it,uDeath and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, taccording to what they had done.

Rev 21-But to the cowards, unbelievers, detestable persons, murderers, the sexually immoral, and those who practice magic spells, idol worshipers, and all those who lie, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. That is the second death.”

Mark 9-And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Rev 14-4:11 And the smoke from their torture will go up forever and ever, and those who worship the beast and his image will have no rest day or night, along with anyone who receives the mark of his name.”

The Bible is very clear about hell and about our free will.It is our choice where we end up.God sends no one to hell,we go there of our own accord.God is completely just.I hope you take a second look at the Word and change your mind.

 

[gomlbrobro]

I thought I was clear in previous posts that I was not arguing the fact that we all deserve hell because we are unholy - this is undebatable. If we were all under some sort of constant life - which I can't really picture or imagine - it would mean we WOULD be ultimately at fault.

Yes, there are exceptions to my statements above, but a great deal of them fall victim to their environment which is of course out of their control. Of course it is still their choice, but their choice is literally completely reliant on their genetic make-up - which alters their way of perceiving information and feelings on this earth. Everyone put on this earth is created by God and each have their predetermined way their brain reacts to their environment. Brain functioning and environment - without their will or knowledge of it - is unfair.

Another reason why I think God will have mercy on these unbelieving souls is that the devil, in reality, is the root cause of deception and evil on this earth. If God was to truly condemn on of His creations for eternity, I don't believe He would take it out on humans who limited by reasoning and the evil constraints of this finite world.

I am just saying there might be another test of our commitment to the Lord similar to the test of life on this earth we are facing. Possibly they have another chance to accept Him and therefore are considered Holy in the eyes of God.

God loves every single one of us - Christian and non-christian. This doesn't necessarily mean that we will all receive the same gifts of God (eg. heaven). There could be different levels of heaven, who knows.

 

[kaylagrl]

I thought I was clear in previous posts that I was not arguing the fact that we all deserve hell because we are unholy - this is undebatable. If we were all under some sort of constant life - which I can't really picture or imagine - it would mean we WOULD be ultimately at fault.

Yes, there are exceptions to my statements above, but a great deal of them fall victim to their environment which is of course out of their control. Of course it is still their choice, but their choice is literally completely reliant on their genetic make-up - which alters their way of perceiving information and feelings on this earth. Everyone put on this earth is created by God and each have their predetermined way their brain reacts to their environment. Brain functioning and environment - without their will or knowledge of it - is unfair.

Another reason why I think God will have mercy on these unbelieving souls is that the devil, in reality, is the root cause of deception and evil on this earth. If God was to truly condemn on of His creations for eternity, I don't believe He would take it out on humans who limited by reasoning and the evil constraints of this finite world.

I am just saying there might be another test of our commitment to the Lord similar to the test of life on this earth we are facing. Possibly they have another chance to accept Him and therefore are considered Holy in the eyes of God.

God loves every single one of us - Christian and non-christian. This doesn't necessarily mean that we will all receive the same gifts of God (eg. heaven). There could be different levels of heaven, who knows.

The Bible is pretty clear about heaven and hell, free will and personal choice. It does not mention different levels of heaven either.