Time & Space

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Mar 30, 2015
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#21
Now i'll say why I agreed with his opinion of millions of years between the fall of lucifer and the creation of us and animals and other living beings.

Hugh Ross is a Christian scientist, he has a video up on youtube where he relates ancient space discoveries with Genesis very well. If I remember right, he said that there was a planet around the earth which had collided with the earth and that resulted in the earth having water and also having a moon (The planet that collided had a lot of water). Now I can't say that is wrong because we don't know how exactly water was formed on the earth when God did it. So if Hugh Ross is right, then such formations of water and other things should have taken time, maybe not millions exactly but it should have taken a lot of time from our perspective. I do believe that God created a lot before us. And I think that Lucifer was thrown down somewhere close to the first day of creation or the second.
 
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Tintin

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#22
There was a scholar who had visited my church and gave a speech. Later I talked to him about Genesis, he does his research too relating it to the discoveries of space years and years before us. I got the knowledge from him, it's not my own presupposition. But I was wrong to say researchers. And yes, the Spirit of God, thank you for correcting that.
Either way it's just trying to accommodate for the evolutionary timeline. I've read Genesis countless times, and not once did I see a Gap, a Luciferian Flood, millions and billions of years. It's plain as day. Please read the Bible as it's written without drawing from the world of origins science (more like philosophy) that's opposed to God.
 
Mar 30, 2015
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#23
Either way it's just trying to accommodate for the evolutionary timeline. I've read Genesis countless times, and not once did I see a Gap, a Luciferian Flood, millions and billions of years. It's plain as day. Please read the Bible as it's written without drawing from the world of origins science (more like philosophy) that's opposed to God.
I have read Genesis quite few times too, Tintin. I never mentioned the Bible talking about such a gap. Only that certain humans believe so, I find it interesting. These scientists don't support evolution as far as I know. They are Christians who are interested in knowing the process that occurred when God created the universe. I can't say they are wrong as I have no evidence in pointing out that they are wrong.

I know a lot of people say that Science is true and God is not and I'm not one of them. Science has its good things too, I try to relate it all to the Bible and I find it interesting. Also, Science has helped us to learn a lot of the Universe.

In short, there are those things about Science that i support and ones that I don't.
 
Dec 1, 2014
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#24
When I was your age, there was a popular Christian song that talked about space... "How big is GOD"

Though man may strive to go beyond the reef of space, to crawl beyond the distance glimmering stars:
This world's a room, so small within my Master's house, the open sky, but a portion of HIS yard.

How Big is GOD? How big and wide, His vast domain!
To try to tell, this world can only start
HE's big enough, to rule this MIghty Universe, yet small enough to live within my heart.
 
Dec 1, 2014
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#25
All of God's mysteries will be revealed to us one day..We can only speculate now. No, it is not 'plain as day' just yet. When I hold a rock, or see and touch a dinosaur bone, or witness a hurricane or earthquake, I sense HIS power and majesty in a different way. When we find sea shells on a mountain top, or discover a diamond underground....days slide into millions of years because GOD's time is not found in a Rolex.
 
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Tintin

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#26
I have read Genesis quite few times too, Tintin. I never mentioned the Bible talking about such a gap. Only that certain humans believe so, I find it interesting. These scientists don't support evolution as far as I know. They are Christians who are interested in knowing the process that occurred when God created the universe. I can't say they are wrong as I have no evidence in pointing out that they are wrong.

I know a lot of people say that Science is true and God is not and I'm not one of them. Science has its good things too, I try to relate it all to the Bible and I find it interesting. Also, Science has helped us to learn a lot of the Universe.

In short, there are those things about Science that i support and ones that I don't.
I'm not against Science, brother. I'm against humanistic origins science posing as Science. It just doesn't gel with the Bible. Hugh Ross may be a Christian, but he's compromising his faith in other areas and he has to keep doing back-flips to make all of his crazy story threads even half-make sense. Early Genesis doesn't allow for long-ages.

Here you go, mate. An in-depth book that refutes Hugh Ross' so called 'Christian' teachings.

Refuting Compromise by Dr. Jonathan Sarfati:
Refuting Compromise (refutation of Hugh Ross): introductory chapter and reviews - creation.com
 
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Apr 8, 2015
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#27
:) its a good debate reconciling science, space and god...but I think we will - I think the only reason it all hasn't come together yet is because as much as we think we are very clever people spiritually and scientifically, we actually no very little at all.
 
Mar 30, 2015
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#28
I'm not against Science, brother. I'm against humanistic origins science posing as Science. It just doesn't gel with the Bible. Hugh Ross may be a Christian, but he's compromising his faith in other areas and he has to keep doing back-flips to make all of his crazy story threads even half-make sense. Early Genesis doesn't allow for long-ages.

Here you go, mate. An in-depth book that refutes Hugh Ross' so called 'Christian' teachings.

Refuting Compromise by Dr. Jonathan Sarfati:
Refuting Compromise (refutation of Hugh Ross): introductory chapter and reviews - creation.com
I never felt that he compromised his faith, maybe I'm unaware of that. I'll look into the link you have posted and get back. :) But why do you believe that Genesis doesn't allow long-ages?
 
Apr 8, 2015
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#29
Nebulae - So beautiful and dangerous. These are real photos filtered in different ways. You would think its a computer image but our universe has its own beauty
ngc6751.jpg nebula02_1100.jpg eagle-nebula-1.jpg aaaasdf.jpg kttt.png images.jpg
 
Apr 8, 2015
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#30
We had this played at school. Its called history of the universe in 10 minutes. A lot of Christians will be at ease with the 10 minute video but some wont. It does show a period that refers to evolution and it starts with bang bang. For many this is totally unacceptable and I apologise if this offends your views. I am personally comfortable with the marriage of God's creation of the universe and big bang. The bits in between I doubt will offend anyone - the notion of subatomic elements forming into elements n gas and stars etc etc.... I think everyone will love the fantastic presentation of it. I am unsure though because of its scientific view if this was outside CC guidelines. If it is my apology and perhaps the mods can take it off if I have overstepped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ip5BAEfZuA
 
Aug 30, 2014
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#31
I love astronomy too. It's so fascinating how much we've learned and how much we still don't know. and the more I study it, I find out we know way more already than I had ever imagined. I recently got a beautiful illustrated copy of the combined "Universe in a Nutshell" and "A Brief History of Time". Hawking is pretty good at describing the big concepts in a way easily understood by the layman. And watching Cosmos with NDT, especially the episode with black holes actually got me so excited I could feel my chest tighten up haha.
 
Apr 8, 2015
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#32
Haha chest tightening. ... thats an amazing recommendation ☺
 
D

didymos

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#33
:) its a good debate reconciling science, space and god...but I think we will - I think the only reason it all hasn't come together yet is because as much as we think we are very clever people spiritually and scientifically,we actually no very little at all.
Reconciling science and religion ok, but I see no problem there. Space doesn't need to be reconciled with anyone, it just is what it is. And the only reconciliation that's possible with God is by God HIMSELF through His Son Jesus Christ. (John 3:16)
 
Apr 8, 2015
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#34
I really loved learning about how time is not some fixed measurement and that it can bend and that it lies on a continuum with space - tbh It makes my head spin. BUT I do understand how mass effects it and how gravity is just the effect of mass on space-time...ya I know I'm a nerd.

This video shows it really well....Its short as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YByqTYzeJww
 
Mar 30, 2015
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#35
Tintin you are right! I never thought about finding the age of the earth by calculating the dates in the Bible. From Adam to Abraham it's 2,000 years and Abraham lived about 4,000 years ago so the age of the earth is about 6,000 years. Yeah, then there would be hardly a few days between the fall of lucifer and the creation of man. It's a simple and plain calculation when looked from the Bible like you said. Thank you for sharing this! :D
 
Mar 30, 2015
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#36
I really loved learning about how time is not some fixed measurement and that it can bend and that it lies on a continuum with space - tbh It makes my head spin. BUT I do understand how mass effects it and how gravity is just the effect of mass on space-time...ya I know I'm a nerd.

This video shows it really well....Its short as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YByqTYzeJww
I'd rather not try to understand gravity and how space and time works along with it, my mind is too tiny for that..

I'm waiting for God to explain it to me when I meet Him. ^^

Thinking about it, waiting for God to explain all about space seems like a better idea than listening to humans speak about it. I'll just satisfy my curiosity by staring at space with a small telescope.
 
Apr 8, 2015
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#37
Tintin you are right! I never thought about finding the age of the earth by calculating the dates in the Bible. From Adam to Abraham it's 2,000 years and Abraham lived about 4,000 years ago so the age of the earth is about 6,000 years. Yeah, then there would be hardly a few days between the fall of lucifer and the creation of man. It's a simple and plain calculation when looked from the Bible like you said. Thank you for sharing this! :D
Yea theres a lot to be reconciled here. There are many christians who, like you accept that the universe did NOt expand to its current state, it just appeared at the word of god and there was NO big Bang. Also, many christians also agree with you that this all took place around 6000 years ago. Many christians dont agree though and accept the scientific principles that the universe is tens of billions of years old and did originate from the bing bang (albeit at the word of God). I fully acknowledge that the Nobel Prize winning work of Einstein and Smoot and the work of hawking is not accepted by some christians as its thought to be in conflict with the bible.
 
Mar 30, 2015
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#38
Yea theres a lot to be reconciled here. There are many christians who, like you accept that the universe did NOt expand to its current state, it just appeared at the word of god and there was NO big Bang. Also, many christians also agree with you that this all took place around 6000 years ago. Many christians dont agree though and accept the scientific principles that the universe is tens of billions of years old and did originate from the bing bang (albeit at the word of God). I fully acknowledge that the Nobel Prize winning work of Einstein and Smoot and the work of hawking is not accepted by some christians as its thought to be in conflict with the bible.
Hey, when did I say that the universe didn't expand to it's current state? o_O Until recently, I believed the universe to be billions of years old. But I don't see that happening when we look into the Bible. I also don't believe that objects in the universe got formed magically due to God's words, rather due to His words processess occured which formed such objects. Same way about the Big Bang, never did I say that it didn't happen. It can happen, God might have started the universe with a Big Bang.

Billions of years come into play because of the time needed for the formation of rocks and other things on earth and then for the structures in the universe after the Big Bang. I understand that, so when I calculated the age of the earth from the Bible I neglected the Days of creation. Because I don't know if those days are exactly 24 hours. In Genesis we can see God commanding the the earth to sprout vegetation, now that takes a couple of years for the plants and fruits to come up, so I wouldn't say those days were 24 hours. Also, on the sixth day Adam had to name thousands of animals. How could one human name thousands of animals in 24 hours? So I won't be sure about the creation days, but after that from Adam, it's just 6,000 years. So the earth should be close to that. Universe could be older.
 
Mar 30, 2015
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#39
Here's something i'd like to share which I found on the internet. It's quite long but it's some useful information -

Radiometric dating was the culminating factor that led to the belief in billions of years for earth history. However, radiometric dating methods are not the only uniformitarian methods. Any radiometric dating model or other uniformitarian dating method can and does have problems, as referenced before. All uniformitarian dating methods require assumptions for extrapolating present-day processes back into the past. The assumptions related to radiometric dating can be seen in these questions:

Initial amounts?
Was any parent amount added?
Was any daughter amount added?
Was any parent amount removed?
Was any daughter amount removed?
Has the rate of decay changed?

If the assumptions are truly accurate, then uniformitarian dates should agree with radiometric dating across the board for the same event. However, radiometric dates often disagree with one another and with dates obtained from other uniformitarian dating methods for the age of the earth, such as the influx of salts into the ocean, the rate of decay of the earth’s magnetic field, and the growth rate of human population.16

The late Dr. Henry Morris compiled a list of 68 uniformitarian estimates for the age of the earth by Christian and secular sources.17 The current accepted age of the earth is about 4.54 billion years based on radiometric dating of a group of meteorites,18 so keep this in mind when viewing table 6.

Table 6. Uniformitarian Estimates Other than Radiometric Dating Estimates for Earth’s Age Compiled by Morris

0 – 10,000 years >10,000 – 100,000 years >100,000 – 1 million years >1 million – 500 million years >500 million – 4 billion years >4 billion – 5 billion years

Number of uniformitarian methods* 23 10 11 23 0 0 (respectively to each year range)

* When a range of ages is given, the maximum age was used to be generous to the evolutionists. In one case, the date was uncertain so it was not used in this tally, so the total estimates used were 67. A few on the list had reference to Saturn, the sun, etc., but since biblically the earth is older than these, dates related to them were used.

As you can see from table 6, uniformitarian maximum ages for the earth obtained from other methods are nowhere near the 4.5 billion years estimated by radiometric dating; of the other methods, only two calculated dates were as much as 500 million years.

The results from some radiometric dating methods completely undermine those from the other radiometric methods. One such example is carbon-14 (14C) dating. As long as an organism is alive, it takes in 14C and 12C from the atmosphere; however, when it dies, the carbon intake stops. Since 14C is radioactive (decays into 14N), the amount of 14C in a dead organism gets less and less over time. Carbon-14 dates are determined from the measured ratio of radioactive carbon-14 to normal carbon-12 (14C/12C). Used on samples that were once alive, such as wood or bone, the measured 14C/12C ratio is compared with the ratio in living things today.

Now, 14C has a derived half-life of 5,730 years, so the 14C in organic material supposedly 100,000 years old should all essentially have decayed into nitrogen.19 Some things, such as wood trapped in lava flows, said to be millions of years old by other radiometric dating methods, still have 14C in them.20 If the items were really millions of years old, then they shouldn’t have any traces of 14C. Coal and diamonds, which are found in or sandwiched between rock layers allegedly millions of years old, have been shown to have 14C ages of only tens of thousands of years.21 So which date, if any, is correct? The diamonds or coal can’t be millions of years old if they have any traces of 14C still in them. This shows that these dating methods are completely unreliable and indicates that the presumed assumptions in the methods are erroneous.

Similar kinds of problems are seen in the case of potassium-argon dating, which has been considered one of the most reliable methods. Dr. Andrew Snelling, a geologist, points out several of these problems with potassium-argon, as seen in table 7.22

These and other examples raise a critical question. If radiometric dating fails to give an accurate date on something of which we do know the true age, then how can it be trusted to give us the correct age for rocks that had no human observers to record when they formed? If the methods don’t work on rocks of known age, it is most unreasonable to trust that they work on rocks of unknown age. It is far more rational to trust the Word of the God who created the world, knows its history perfectly, and has revealed sufficient information in the Bible for us to understand that history and the age of the creation.