is Smoking a sin?

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dane_g87

Guest
#41
My issue here has never been what it takes for someone to become a Christian, to be saved, to be accepted by God, to receive forgiveness of sins, to be sealed for redemption, to be kept by the grace of God. Never, ever, ever.

My issue has been regarding what happens after God saves a person, and the new creation God makes them into. My issue concerns what a person becomes as a result of the grace of God, the changes God has wrought in his heart, and the immediate and enduring evidences of that change.

You will find that the writings of Spurgeon in this regard will betray you and your understanding, because you do not hold to the doctrine of regeneration as he and I do.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#42
My issue here has never been what it takes for someone to become a Christian, to be saved, to be accepted by God, to receive forgiveness of sins, to be sealed for redemption, to be kept by the grace of God. Never, ever, ever.

My issue has been regarding what happens after God saves a person, and the new creation God makes them into. My issue concerns what a person becomes as a result of the grace of God, the changes God has wrought in his heart, and the immediate and enduring evidences of that change.

You will find that the writings of Spurgeon in this regard will betray you and your understanding, because you do not hold to the doctrine of regeneration as he and I do.
Well could you tell me how you seem insistant that we obey laws/commandments/ordinances and that to the original discussion if someone continues to smoke they should question their salvation. And yet at the same time you have clearly said that every day you break all the commandments of God. You say we have to strive against sin, and live holy lives I think, would that be fair?
But you are not able to, and yet you suggest the smoker has no real lasting salvation, I find this unacceptable, I'm sorry
 
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dane_g87

Guest
#43
The enemies of Jesus Christ erred when they took His words at face value, considering only the letter, and not regarding both the letter and spirit. In the same way, you have taken my words at face value, ridiculed me as a result of that, and claimed I teach/believe false, heretical/da mnable doctrine. I will list the accusations against me, and I will attempt to explain myself, and then I will appeal to Spurgeon's writings that you may see for yourself that I am the one who is in alignment with his doctrine, and that you are only aligned in-part.

I have some errands to run, so I will not be able to respond here immediately. I will get back once I return Lord willing.
 
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#44
The enemies of Jesus Christ erred when they took His words at face value, considering only the letter, and not regarding both the letter and spirit. In the same way, you have taken my words at face value, ridiculed me as a result of that, and claimed I teach/believe false, heretical/da mnable doctrine. I will list the accusations against me, and I will attempt to explain myself, and then I will appeal to Spurgeon's writings that you may see for yourself that I am the one who is in alignment his doctrine, and that you are only aligned in-part.
Could you reply to my previous post please, and answer the specific points raised, thank you. I have not ridiculed you simply stated what the Bible says
 
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Wug

Guest
#45
Addiction is idolatry. Be it to cigarettes, drugs, or video games. It's not the substance, but the addiction that's a sin.
 

QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
1,435
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#46
I am planning on replying to all these posts. However I feel as though I will have to publicize my statement of faith afterward, after all of this defamation brought upon me and my theology, at your hands. Livingbygrace, I see that you are fond of Charles Spurgeon, and so I will appeal much to him as a defense along with my replying to your accusations against me.
In the same way, you have taken my words at face value, ridiculed me as a result of that, and claimed I teach/believe false, heretical/da mnable doctrine. I will list the accusations against me, and I will attempt to explain myself, and then I will appeal to Spurgeon's writings that you may see for yourself that I am the one who is in alignment with his doctrine, and that you are only aligned in-part.
My concern is the "tone" of your speech. I know you are not speaking, you are writing. But still, there is a tone to your writing also, and that tone often seems very condescending. That tone is not one that should come out of a heart where God's love dwells, yet in your case I see it in nearly every post you make.

Quest
 
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QuestionTime

Senior Member
Feb 16, 2010
1,435
20
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#47
Addiction is idolatry. Be it to cigarettes, drugs, or video games. It's not the substance, but the addiction that's a sin.
How about addiction to Nestle Crunch chocolate bars? ;)

Quest
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#48
The enemies of Jesus Christ erred when they took His words at face value, considering only the letter, and not regarding both the letter and spirit. In the same way, you have taken my words at face value, ridiculed me as a result of that, and claimed I teach/believe false, heretical/da mnable doctrine. I will list the accusations against me,


I am sorry you feel this way. I have used none of the above words to reply to your posts Dane. You have made clear, emphatic statements which I have responded to, according to scripture, that is all. I do believe clear statements you have made do conflict with each other, but I do not believe I can be blamed if that is indeed the case.
 
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Garrison

Guest
#49
Fighting gets no one anywhere fast. Can't we please stop?? LOL
 
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dane_g87

Guest
#50
Livingbygrace, please stop trying to justify yourself. You have said things here about what you claimed I believe that are just untrue. It all boils down to this: are the things you said concerning me true? And they are not. You have uttered falsehoods. I do not believe we are saved by works, I do not believe we must maintain our salvation by works. I do not believe we must do anything to gain God's favor. The issue here is not whether you've tried your best to answer me with Bible verses...the issue here is what have you done in the end? Have you spoken the truth or falsely accused? Just because one uses the Bible does not mean everything they do with it is right. I am responding according to Scripture just as much as you are...and you believe I am wrong, right? Well if there's a possibility of me being wrong whilst using Scripture, then why do you act like there's nothing wrong with you now since "you've only done what the Bible says"?

Questiontime, when someone rebukes another person or informs them that they are incorrect, this doesn't mean that they're being condescending. I believe you are very wrong in your theology, yes I admit that. I also believe livingbygrace is mistaken and has misquoted Charles Spurgeon. That I have believed this and voiced this does not make me condescending. You can't just throw out accusations at people when they disagree with you or say you are wrong. Aside from being "condescending" what about you being so arrogant? That you had the nerve to act as though you could peer into my heart and declare that I have no faith? Why don't you learn your place, O sinner? You cannot see the heart of men, and you can neither judge the heart of men.

And by the way - Garrison, we are not fighting. We are discussing theology. All the church fathers did it. All who are serious about knowing and learning the Scriptures do it.
 
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#51
Livingbygrace, please stop trying to justify yourself. You have said things here about what you claimed I believe that are just untrue. It all boils down to this: are the things you said concerning me true? And they are not. You have uttered falsehoods. I do not believe we are saved by works, I do not believe we must maintain our salvation by works. I do not believe we must do anything to gain God's favor. The issue here is not whether you've tried your best to answer me with Bible verses...the issue here is what have you done in the end? Have you spoken the truth or falsely accused? Just because one uses the Bible does not mean everything they do with it is right. I am responding according to Scripture just as much as you are...and you believe I am wrong, right? Well if there's a possibility of me being wrong whilst using Scripture, then why do you act like there's nothing wrong with you now since "you've only done what the Bible says"?

Questiontime, when someone rebukes another person or informs them that they are incorrect, this doesn't mean that they're being condescending. I believe you are very wrong in your theology, yes I admit that. I also believe livingbygrace is mistaken and has misquoted Charles Spurgeon. That I have believed this and voiced this does not make me condescending. You can't just throw out accusations at people when they disagree with you or say you are wrong. Aside from being "condescending" what about you being so arrogant? That you had the nerve to act as though you could peer into my heart and declare that I have no faith? Why don't you learn your place, O sinner? You cannot see the heart of men, and you can neither judge the heart of men.

And by the way - Garrison, we are not fighting. We are discussing theology. All the church fathers did it. All who are serious about knowing and learning the Scriptures do it.
You are obviously not a new Christian. On the one hand you state you each day break all of God's commandments, that is what you said. You also said that if someone continues to smoke when they are a Christian and not stop they should question whether they truly are a Christian. These are factual comments by you.

I have not falsey accused you
On top of this you have quoted the Bible to say that God will bring us to obey his laws/ordinances

These are statements you have made. I believe that as you have clearly contradicted yourself you are now trying to lash out at people rather than answer these points. This is a pity. Trying to hurl accusations at others due to your conflicting statements is I believe rather sad

You have confirmed my belief by your own words, not mine that people are so happy to question a smoker's Christianity while they themselves certainly have no right to do so.
 
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#52
You have also responded to none of the posts I made after clearly stating you would. Personally I can only be left believing you have no answers to the debate we were having, and therefore have made these wild accusations instead to deflect from the debate and answering the points I made
 
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dane_g87

Guest
#53
Livingbygrace, I said I would respond and I am planning on it. Does it occur to you that I do other things during the day than stay online Christian Chat? I am sorry for being tied down to other things in my life, I really am. When I am able to devote my time to studying and research on this issue, I will do just that. I have many answers to the debate, I have my whole reply planned and laid out in my head. You can only be left believing these things because you lack one of the fruits of the Spirit - patience. Please, be patient with me, and I will do all that I said, Lord willing. Remember I am being bombarded not only by your lengthy questions/posts, but also those of QuestionTime's. Perhaps you might want to lessen the load and each of you speak with me one at a time, instead all at once as though you are teaming up on me?

I have saved all the points you made that I planned on replying to. I have planned on what I will say to Quest. I have planned on quoting some of Spurgeon's writings. Patience is virtue.
 
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#54
Livingbygrace, I said I would respond and I am planning on it. Does it occur to you that I do other things during the day than stay online Christian Chat? I am sorry for being tied down to other things in my life, I really am. When I am able to devote my time to studying and research on this issue, I will do just that. I have many answers to the debate, I have my whole reply planned and laid out in my head. You can only be left believing these things because you lack one of the fruits of the Spirit - patience. Please, be patient with me, and I will do all that I said, Lord willing. Remember, I am being bombarded with lengthy posts by you and Quest...it's not like this is 20 questions or something.
Remember I am being bombarded not only by your lengthy questions/posts, but also those of QuestionTime's. Perhaps you might want to lessen the load and each of you speak with me one at a time, instead all at once as though you are teaming up on me?
Well might I suggest that if you really want to reply to my posts it may be better to concentrate on that rather than make the last few statements you have which have not been in a Christian Spirit. You have been bombarded with nothing lengthy of mine in statements for a few hours. You are now judging that I lack fruits of the Spirt. Rather than making judgenments about me, just ask, you will find me very honest. I am a sinner saved by grace and do not profess to flow continually all the time with every fruit of the Spirit.

Personally I believe it would be better for you to retire from the debate as I have already advised you. But sometimes we are not always driven by the correct motive. We both know what really has caused you to be upset, and I doubt very much you will be able to overcome that.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#55
Addiction is idolatry. Be it to cigarettes, drugs, or video games. It's not the substance, but the addiction that's a sin.
Can I ask then as you have put smoking on a par with video games. In your opinion if someone becomes a Christian and keeps playing video games will God disown them and send them to hell for that?

I am guessing by the way that you believe a person cannot remain a Christian and have idolatory, that is why I have asked the question I have, if I am wrong I apologise for the assumption
 
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dane_g87

Guest
#56
In my first post here I will answer to the accusations levied against me and my beliefs:

You said, "You say in honesty(and I respect this) that each and every one of us fails miserably you included to keep God's Hpoly Commandments. You further say that we including yourself breaks everyone of God's commandments every day. Such honesty is to be commended. But I am left baffled that you then suggest that if we do not strife to live an almost perfect Christian life and if someone does something like smoking they should consider if they are reallyb a Christian. Why should they if all Christians every day break all of God's commandments?"
- I indeed said all people including myself fail miserably to keep God's commandments daily. By this I was appealing to the basis of the law: loving God (1st great commandment) and loving your neighbor (2nd). And I came up with this conclusion based on the following questions: 1) Have you today truly loved God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind, as He deserves? 2) Have you today truly loved your neighbor as yourself, in every degree and respect, as called by God to do? And if anyone answers yes to these questions, they are arrogant, blind, and idolatrous. For in this sense each and every one of us breaks the commandments of God miserably, as none of us is capable of loving God like He deserves or loving our fellow man in every degree at all times as God intended. Knowing this truth will keep a man who, perhaps, may be able to keep himself from committing adultery or murder or hate/lust all day, from becoming proud and developing trust in his own righteousness. I have never said we must strive to live an almost perfect Christian life, I never even hinted to the word perfection! I have stressed many times before that I was NOT talking about perfection, in order to prevent such an occurence as this from occurring.

You said, "This is the tragedty I have seen all my life. Ministers and over zealous Christians demanding how pure and high a level of Christianity must be obtained when in truth they cannot themselves aspire to such a level and so it is true. 'They tie up heavy loads and put them on mens shoulders, but they themselves are not willi9ng to lift a finger to move them.' Matt23:4. 'Woe to you teachers ofr the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You shut the kingdom of Heaven in mens faces. You yourselves do not enter nor will you let those enter who are trying.' Matt23:13"
- Here you have accused me of being one of those over zealous ministers or Christians who, according to your usage of Matthew 23:4,13, are condemned hypocrites. I have never demanded, nor do I today, that Christians must reach a certain high level of purity. This is legalism at its best and those verses are properly applied to people who believe such lies. But you have misquoted such condemning verses against me because you've mistakenly said I've believed and taught the very things the Pharisees did, when in fact I condemn the Pharisees' hypocrisy just as much as you do.

You said, "We receive the Holy Spirit, not by law keeping(being good or pure enough) but by faith. And we receive the power for miracles by faith, not by law keeping/being good enough or worthy enoughy."
- I do not believe nor have I ever said that we receive the Holy Spirit or power for miracles by law keeping. I 100% believe and teach that we receive the Holy Spirit and power to do anything for God by the grace of God alone through faith alone.

You said, "We are saved from our sins by faith in Christ. We are justified, sanctified by faith in Christ and the Holy Spirits power."
- I 100% believe and teach that we are saved from our sins only by the grace of God through faith in Christ. We are justified, sanctified, and glorified by God in Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.

You said, "I would invite people to read your comments and decide for themselves whether you have almost fully spoken of someones Christianity hinging on them being pure and Holy enough to enter Heaven."
- I do not believe nor have I ever said that our salvation depends on our being pure or holy enough to enter Heaven. I believe that there is no one living who is pure or holy enough to enter Heaven. I believe that if someone were to use their holiness and purity as the reason or grounds for which they should be worthy of Heaven, that God would utterly condemn them to Hell for bribing Him with their own righteousness, which is really filthy rags in His sight.

You asked, "Do you regularly when preaching or talkingb to non Christiansd explain to them that Christ died for every sin a Christian can commit(if thery are sincerely looking to Christ and trusting him)? Do you tell them that no Christian is under law? Do you tell them it is the law that arouses the sinful passions in us, and do you tell them Paul was consumed by list by trying and failing to obey the Ten Commandmennts?"
- I always tell unbelievers when discussing how a person is saved that Christ died for all the sins of His people, past, present, and future, and that it is only by His sacrifice and atonement on the cross that they are made perfect before God, and that He alone is the only One in whom they can trust for salvation, apart from trusting in personal righteousness or anything else. I teach that no Christian is under the law, but has been set free from the law, because being under the law requires perfect obedience in order to enter into life, and none are perfect; I tell them we are under grace. I am not sure about your last 2 questions, I would ask you to quote the particular Scriptures but I fear that would deviate from the rest of my post which will be lengthy. So we can save this for another time.

You asked, "Do you tell them that by dying to the law and living by faith in Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit they will have their victory, and that in their own strength they cannot do a thing. Do you constantly tell them it is not about being 'good enough' but faith in Christ, andf that ther only righteousness for Heaven we will ever have is Christ dying for us on the cross"
- I teach that victory is only won in Christ alone by Christ alone. I teach that there is nothing we can do to be saved. I teach that it is never about us being good enough, for we are perfect in the eyes of God because of the merits of Jesus Christ alone. Righteousness is required in order to enter Heaven but this is only the righteousness of Christ; our personal righteousness is nothing and in fact filthy rags in God's eyes. I put no confidence in my flesh; all my confidence goes in the power and saving grace of God in Christ.

You said, "What God wants is a sincere person who knows in his heart that he is a worthless sinner and that in himself he cannot achieve what God requires. He accepts it has to be what God can do in him, not what he can do himself."
- I believe that God wants is someone who is completely, utterly, hopeless, helpless, and worthless, begging on their knees before Him for His grace trembling in humility, brokenness, and contrition. "God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble." God saves the one who trusts in nothing of himself, or of man, or of the flesh, or of anything save the Lord Jesus Christ.

You said, "Paul said we get everything from God we strove for by law(being good /pure enough) by instead trusting in His Son."
- We indeed get absolutely everything from God according to His own mercy, grace, and determined will; not by anything we do or strive for.

You said, "It was the people who had Jesus crucified that demanded so much and that the people fully obeyed the law, and yet these Pharisees and Saducees themselves could not obey the law."
- I have never demanded either of myself or of any other person that they must fully obey the law, either the law of Moses or the law of Christ.

You said, "I believe the difference in us is I believe of a sanctification of faith in Chjrist who died for me, not by looking at striving to obey laws/commandments. I found that did not work."
- I believe as well of a sanctification of faith in Christ and not by striving to obey laws and commandments. Therefore, there is absolutely no difference in this respect.

You said, "We must tell people of a grace, an Amazing Grace of God sending His Son to die for their sins while they were yet without strengty We must tell them it is not by their striving to be 'good enough' thast God iws pleased, but if they trust in His precious son who died for them"
- I indeed tell people this very message, that God, before the foundation of the world, purposed to send His Son to die for the sins of His people, when as yet they were wicked sinners, enemies of God, and only by the saving precious grace of God that they were redeemed and given eternal life. They did nothing to gain this or maintain it; except that it was only gained and is only maintained by God in Christ. There is nothing at all any person can do in order to get to Heaven or to make God pleased.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#57
In my first post here I will answer to the accusations levied against me and my beliefs:

You said, "You say in honesty(and I respect this) that each and every one of us fails miserably you included to keep God's Hpoly Commandments. You further say that we including yourself breaks everyone of God's commandments every day. Such honesty is to be commended. But I am left baffled that you then suggest that if we do not strife to live an almost perfect Christian life and if someone does something like smoking they should consider if they are reallyb a Christian. Why should they if all Christians every day break all of God's commandments?"
- I indeed said all people including myself fail miserably to keep God's commandments daily. By this I was appealing to the basis of the law: loving God (1st great commandment) and loving your neighbor (2nd). And I came up with this conclusion based on the following questions: 1) Have you today truly loved God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind, as He deserves? 2) Have you today truly loved your neighbor as yourself, in every degree and respect, as called by God to do? And if anyone answers yes to these questions, they are arrogant, blind, and idolatrous. For in this sense each and every one of us breaks the commandments of God miserably, as none of us is capable of loving God like He deserves or loving our fellow man in every degree at all times as God intended. Knowing this truth will keep a man who, perhaps, may be able to keep himself from committing adultery or murder or hate/lust all day, from becoming proud and developing trust in his own righteousness. I have never said we must strive to live an almost perfect Christian life, I never even hinted to the word perfection! I have stressed many times before that I was NOT talking about perfection, in order to prevent such an occurence as this from occurring.

You said, "This is the tragedty I have seen all my life. Ministers and over zealous Christians demanding how pure and high a level of Christianity must be obtained when in truth they cannot themselves aspire to such a level and so it is true. 'They tie up heavy loads and put them on mens shoulders, but they themselves are not willi9ng to lift a finger to move them.' Matt23:4. 'Woe to you teachers ofr the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You shut the kingdom of Heaven in mens faces. You yourselves do not enter nor will you let those enter who are trying.' Matt23:13"
- Here you have accused me of being one of those over zealous ministers or Christians who, according to your usage of Matthew 23:4,13, are condemned hypocrites. I have never demanded, nor do I today, that Christians must reach a certain high level of purity. This is legalism at its best and those verses are properly applied to people who believe such lies. But you have misquoted such condemning verses against me because you've mistakenly said I've believed and taught the very things the Pharisees did, when in fact I condemn the Pharisees' hypocrisy just as much as you do.

You said, "We receive the Holy Spirit, not by law keeping(being good or pure enough) but by faith. And we receive the power for miracles by faith, not by law keeping/being good enough or worthy enoughy."
- I do not believe nor have I ever said that we receive the Holy Spirit or power for miracles by law keeping. I 100% believe and teach that we receive the Holy Spirit and power to do anything for God by the grace of God alone through faith alone.

You said, "We are saved from our sins by faith in Christ. We are justified, sanctified by faith in Christ and the Holy Spirits power."
- I 100% believe and teach that we are saved from our sins only by the grace of God through faith in Christ. We are justified, sanctified, and glorified by God in Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit.

You said, "I would invite people to read your comments and decide for themselves whether you have almost fully spoken of someones Christianity hinging on them being pure and Holy enough to enter Heaven."
- I do not believe nor have I ever said that our salvation depends on our being pure or holy enough to enter Heaven. I believe that there is no one living who is pure or holy enough to enter Heaven. I believe that if someone were to use their holiness and purity as the reason or grounds for which they should be worthy of Heaven, that God would utterly condemn them to Hell for bribing Him with their own righteousness, which is really filthy rags in His sight.

You asked, "Do you regularly when preaching or talkingb to non Christiansd explain to them that Christ died for every sin a Christian can commit(if thery are sincerely looking to Christ and trusting him)? Do you tell them that no Christian is under law? Do you tell them it is the law that arouses the sinful passions in us, and do you tell them Paul was consumed by list by trying and failing to obey the Ten Commandmennts?"
- I always tell unbelievers when discussing how a person is saved that Christ died for all the sins of His people, past, present, and future, and that it is only by His sacrifice and atonement on the cross that they are made perfect before God, and that He alone is the only One in whom they can trust for salvation, apart from trusting in personal righteousness or anything else. I teach that no Christian is under the law, but has been set free from the law, because being under the law requires perfect obedience in order to enter into life, and none are perfect; I tell them we are under grace. I am not sure about your last 2 questions, I would ask you to quote the particular Scriptures but I fear that would deviate from the rest of my post which will be lengthy. So we can save this for another time.

You asked, "Do you tell them that by dying to the law and living by faith in Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit they will have their victory, and that in their own strength they cannot do a thing. Do you constantly tell them it is not about being 'good enough' but faith in Christ, andf that ther only righteousness for Heaven we will ever have is Christ dying for us on the cross"
- I teach that victory is only won in Christ alone by Christ alone. I teach that there is nothing we can do to be saved. I teach that it is never about us being good enough, for we are perfect in the eyes of God because of the merits of Jesus Christ alone. Righteousness is required in order to enter Heaven but this is only the righteousness of Christ; our personal righteousness is nothing and in fact filthy rags in God's eyes. I put no confidence in my flesh; all my confidence goes in the power and saving grace of God in Christ.

You said, "What God wants is a sincere person who knows in his heart that he is a worthless sinner and that in himself he cannot achieve what God requires. He accepts it has to be what God can do in him, not what he can do himself."
- I believe that God wants is someone who is completely, utterly, hopeless, helpless, and worthless, begging on their knees before Him for His grace trembling in humility, brokenness, and contrition. "God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble." God saves the one who trusts in nothing of himself, or of man, or of the flesh, or of anything save the Lord Jesus Christ.

You said, "Paul said we get everything from God we strove for by law(being good /pure enough) by instead trusting in His Son."
- We indeed get absolutely everything from God according to His own mercy, grace, and determined will; not by anything we do or strive for.

You said, "It was the people who had Jesus crucified that demanded so much and that the people fully obeyed the law, and yet these Pharisees and Saducees themselves could not obey the law."
- I have never demanded either of myself or of any other person that they must fully obey the law, either the law of Moses or the law of Christ.

You said, "I believe the difference in us is I believe of a sanctification of faith in Chjrist who died for me, not by looking at striving to obey laws/commandments. I found that did not work."
- I believe as well of a sanctification of faith in Christ and not by striving to obey laws and commandments. Therefore, there is absolutely no difference in this respect.

You said, "We must tell people of a grace, an Amazing Grace of God sending His Son to die for their sins while they were yet without strengty We must tell them it is not by their striving to be 'good enough' thast God iws pleased, but if they trust in His precious son who died for them"
- I indeed tell people this very message, that God, before the foundation of the world, purposed to send His Son to die for the sins of His people, when as yet they were wicked sinners, enemies of God, and only by the saving precious grace of God that they were redeemed and given eternal life. They did nothing to gain this or maintain it; except that it was only gained and is only maintained by God in Christ. There is nothing at all any person can do in order to get to Heaven or to make God pleased.
As you asked me to reply publically I will

As to your first point, you said, and I quote.
I believe firmly that each and every one of us including myself fails God miserably and breaks each and every sinbgle one of His cvommandments daily. If you are honest, that cannot be related just to two, it would not be possible in those words. You may say that by breaking two we break them all. As you have included lust, I wonder how many are concerned here? I have to say in all honesty
 
D

dane_g87

Guest
#58
It appears as though your post was cut short. Before I answer this rebuttal of yours, I ask that you please weigh your motives here in answering my defense...are you seeking to defame me further? Or are you seeking to glorify God, advance the truth, and deal justly with a brother in Christ?

(Psalm 19:12-13) Who can understand his errors? Cleanse me from secret faults. Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins;

Spurgeon commentated as follows:
"Thou canst mark in me faults entirely hidden from myself. It were hopeless to expect to see all my spots; therefore, O Lord, wash away in the atoning blood even those sins which my conscience has been unable to detect. Secret sins, like private conspirators, must be hunted out or they may do deadly mischief; it is well to be much in prayer concerning them."

Wesley commentated as follows:
"Thy law, O Lord, is holy and just and good. But I fall infinitely short of it. Cleanse - Both by justification, through the blood of thy son; and by sanctification thro' thy holy spirit. Though the first may seem to be principally intended, because he speaks of his past sins. Secret - From the guilt of such sins as were secret either, from others; such as none knows but God and my own conscience: or, from myself; such as I never observed, or did not discern the evil of. Pardon my unknown sins, of which I never repented particularly, as I should have done."

Livingbygrace, can you honestly tell me that you've today perfectly kept the commandment not to commit adultery/lust, or that you've perfectly and completely repented of all the times you've broken the commandment in the past? Can you perfectly keep the commandment not to murder/hate? Can you perfectly keep any of God's commandments? Especially when we are born with a sinful nature, and that there are sins in us so deeply rooted in our being that our conscience cannot detect them? I don't know about you, but I say honestly that I don't trust in my ability to keep any of God's commandments perfectly. Am I wrong or lying when I say I break the commandments of God daily? I do not have the capacity to keep any of His commandments perfectly as He requires. That's the whole reason for the cross!
 
Last edited:
Dec 19, 2009
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#59
It appears as though your post was cut short. Before I answer this rebuttal of yours, I ask that you please weigh your motives here in answering my defense...are you seeking to defame me further? Or are you seeking to glorify God, advance the truth, and deal justly with a brother in Christ?

(Psalm 19:12-13) Who can understand his errors? Cleanse me from secret faults. Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins;

Spurgeon commentated as follows:
"Thou canst mark in me faults entirely hidden from myself. It were hopeless to expect to see all my spots; therefore, O Lord, wash away in the atoning blood even those sins which my conscience has been unable to detect. Secret sins, like private conspirators, must be hunted out or they may do deadly mischief; it is well to be much in prayer concerning them."

Wesley commentated as follows:
"Thy law, O Lord, is holy and just and good. But I fall infinitely short of it. Cleanse - Both by justification, through the blood of thy son; and by sanctification thro' thy holy spirit. Though the first may seem to be principally intended, because he speaks of his past sins. Secret - From the guilt of such sins as were secret either, from others; such as none knows but God and my own conscience: or, from myself; such as I never observed, or did not discern the evil of. Pardon my unknown sins, of which I never repented particularly, as I should have done."

Livingbygrace, can you honestly tell me that you've today perfectly kept the commandment not to commit adultery/lust, or that you've perfectly and completely repented of all the times you've broken the commandment in the past? Can you perfectly keep the commandment not to murder/hate? Can you perfectly keep any of God's commandments? Especially when we are born with a sinful nature, and that there are sins in us so deeply rooted in our being that our conscience cannot detect them? I don't know about you, but I say honestly that I don't trust in my ability to keep any of God's commandments perfectly. Am I wrong or lying when I say I break the commandments of God daily? I do not have the capacity to keep any of His commandments perfectly as He requires. That's the whole reason for the cross!
If youv seek to be honest will you accept what you wrote concerning every day we break every commandment was wrong to write. An honest person would surely admit at the very least it was a terribly misleading state3ment if you are now saying it relates to two commandments
 
D

dane_g87

Guest
#60
There is nobody alive who can keep any of God's commandments perfectly. Each and every one of us fails miserably to keep any of the commandments of God perfectly as He requires. This appeals in many respects to 1) that he who is guilty of breaking one is guilty of all; 2) the law is fulfilled in perfect love to God and man; 3) we are unable to even detect the hidden sins deep within our being; 4) we have no way of knowing if we've kept the commandment perfectly because of principle #3; 5) who alive can say they are able to keep any one of God's commandments perfectly?

I don't know what you're trying to get at or what you're trying to squeeze out of me. I stand by what I said. You've questioned my motive and reason why I've said what I've said, and I've tried to appeal to various reasons why I said what I said. But I remain firm in that nobody, not even myself, can ever say "I've kept this or that commandment completely, thoroughly, and perfectly, as God requires, this day."