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The Bible says that we must treat our bodies as a temple for the Lord, if we are Christians. Therefore, do we really want to destroy our bodies through smoking? No, not really. I mean, the Bible also says gluttony is a sin, meaning that it's not good for you to eat too much. It doesn't say anything about smoking being a sin, but it's really not good for your health, ergo not good for a temple of God.
M
Hi, im not a teen but i can shed some biblical light over this.
Lots of people use the "treat your body as the temple of Christ verse. Whcih dont get me wrong, sound good. But that verse was actually talking about sexual immorallity in the church, congress with prostitutes and the joining of one flesh with a prostitute with God in side you.
But as for smoking sister, yeah, it's not good.
There's not alot in the bible about harmful substances.. but there is plenty about not letting anything have dominion over your life which can easily, without distorting meaning, be turned to nicotine addiction.
Some would say that smoking is biblically bad off the bad. Frankly, I dont think so. It's stupid sure, but next to any other poisonous addictive substance that your not actually addicted to it's just a greater degree of stupid. (keep in mind a much greater... nicotine is super poisonous and highly addictive)
Mcdonalds (trans-fats, they're in most fast foods) and coffee are always the two that spring to mind. Everyone bags smoking, which they're right to... but if we're talking biblically, they have to talk about not letting thing have dominion over your life i.e. addiction. If that's the case... time to stop the caffeine and maccas folks
Lots of people use the "treat your body as the temple of Christ verse. Whcih dont get me wrong, sound good. But that verse was actually talking about sexual immorallity in the church, congress with prostitutes and the joining of one flesh with a prostitute with God in side you.
But as for smoking sister, yeah, it's not good.
There's not alot in the bible about harmful substances.. but there is plenty about not letting anything have dominion over your life which can easily, without distorting meaning, be turned to nicotine addiction.
Some would say that smoking is biblically bad off the bad. Frankly, I dont think so. It's stupid sure, but next to any other poisonous addictive substance that your not actually addicted to it's just a greater degree of stupid. (keep in mind a much greater... nicotine is super poisonous and highly addictive)
Mcdonalds (trans-fats, they're in most fast foods) and coffee are always the two that spring to mind. Everyone bags smoking, which they're right to... but if we're talking biblically, they have to talk about not letting thing have dominion over your life i.e. addiction. If that's the case... time to stop the caffeine and maccas folks
S
Mat 6:24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
this scripture is clear that no matter what it is you can only let jesus be the master of you life Any addictions whether it is coffee, food drugs alcohol or smoking are masters of our life and we need to put them in submission.
Also the bible says we are the light of the world we need to be an example to the rest of the world they need to see us shine
this scripture is clear that no matter what it is you can only let jesus be the master of you life Any addictions whether it is coffee, food drugs alcohol or smoking are masters of our life and we need to put them in submission.
Also the bible says we are the light of the world we need to be an example to the rest of the world they need to see us shine
If it's bad for you to do, it's a sin. God wants you to take care of your body because it's His temple.
However, going to McDonald's is bad for you. Watching too much TV is bad for you. Anything in moderation then, probably is not a sin. The issue with smoking though is that I don't think it can be moderated because it's highly addictive.
Big Macs, not so addictive. Just don't eat 'em too often.
Quest
However, going to McDonald's is bad for you. Watching too much TV is bad for you. Anything in moderation then, probably is not a sin. The issue with smoking though is that I don't think it can be moderated because it's highly addictive.
Big Macs, not so addictive. Just don't eat 'em too often.
Quest
We are aware of the context of the verse. Still, the point of the verse isn't what you are doing with God's temple, specifically this or that. The point of the verse is, that the body is God's temple. Therefore, the scripture is telling us to watch what we are doing with it. With that view in mind, we must consider all improper usage of God's temple, and that is why the majority interpret the verse the way that they do.
Quest
Quest
Smoking is not something that is good for a person to do. It is expensive and it can destroy their health. As a teenager church folk would come up toi me after the service and tell me I shouldn't smoke, because my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit
They are right, it is. But these people who told me this only mixed with people in the church on their social level, and they looked down on others in the church. I do wonder looking back which would offend God the most, my smoking or their attitude.
I am not in any way trying to excuse smoking. But I don't like it when Christians make those who do smoke feel guilty for doing it. They say they are telling people they should stop out of love, it never came accross to me that way.
Actually I was baptised in the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues when I smoked. For over a year something in me questioned if I actually could be baptised in the Spirit as I smoked. I had been led to believe it was a grave sin
But I was prayed with by a well known minister and they confirmed I was baotised in the Spirit. I learned from that that God just sees his Children with love, others often don't. So I don't believe that we should think of it as God seeing smoking as a grave sin, I am sure other things would upset Him more. But I do believe that it is very unwise to smoke. The damage done to a person health can be horrific, but when we are young we don't consider this. When we are older and do, we are often badly hooked and it cvan be very hard to stop
A few years ago a man at my work got a calculator out(he was 45) He reckoned that by todays money he had spent £45,000 on cigarettes, he stopped. Just think what you coud do with money like that in your life? Instead of paying for the effect of probably dying much younger than you otherwise would
Smoking does not stop anyone being a Christian. Our one and only righteousness is faith in Jesus who died for us. If we start judging if someone is a Chrtistian by how good they are, according to the Bible, no-one would get to Heaven
They are right, it is. But these people who told me this only mixed with people in the church on their social level, and they looked down on others in the church. I do wonder looking back which would offend God the most, my smoking or their attitude.
I am not in any way trying to excuse smoking. But I don't like it when Christians make those who do smoke feel guilty for doing it. They say they are telling people they should stop out of love, it never came accross to me that way.
Actually I was baptised in the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues when I smoked. For over a year something in me questioned if I actually could be baptised in the Spirit as I smoked. I had been led to believe it was a grave sin
But I was prayed with by a well known minister and they confirmed I was baotised in the Spirit. I learned from that that God just sees his Children with love, others often don't. So I don't believe that we should think of it as God seeing smoking as a grave sin, I am sure other things would upset Him more. But I do believe that it is very unwise to smoke. The damage done to a person health can be horrific, but when we are young we don't consider this. When we are older and do, we are often badly hooked and it cvan be very hard to stop
A few years ago a man at my work got a calculator out(he was 45) He reckoned that by todays money he had spent £45,000 on cigarettes, he stopped. Just think what you coud do with money like that in your life? Instead of paying for the effect of probably dying much younger than you otherwise would
Smoking does not stop anyone being a Christian. Our one and only righteousness is faith in Jesus who died for us. If we start judging if someone is a Chrtistian by how good they are, according to the Bible, no-one would get to Heaven
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D
(1 Corinthians 6:12-13) "All things are lawful for me", but not all things are profitable. "All things are lawful for me", but I will not be mastered by anything.
The phrase "All things are lawful for me" was a quote used frequently by the Corinthians in order to keep themselves comfortable in their antinomianism. People were indulging in the flesh without any control over themselves. Paul countered their quote with a more biblical and God-honoring minded alternative. The verse is specifically referring to food, and being mastered by food would of course be gluttony. The important thing to be derived from this text is the principle of not being mastered by anything. If you are being mastered by something, then there is work to do, a battle to wage, and sanctification to pursue. This would involve anything that enslaves anybody, including smoking/drinking, playing video games, overeating, no control over spending, various addictions, etc. As people of God we are slaves to one, that is Jesus Christ. Everything else must be fought against.
(Romans 6:16) Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
If you yield your body to the addictive act of smoking, you are presenting yourself as a slave to it. Yet we must not be "mastered by anything," save Christ.
Just because a Christian smokes does not necessarily mean they're not a Christian. Whether or not a person smokes is not the dividing factor determining salvation or not. Some Christians smoke and are ignorant of it...but if they are God's, then He will sooner or later bring them to conviction. Some Christians smoke and are struggling with it; they have their ups and downs, but the important thing is there's a fight. Now people who claim to be Christian and are aware of these Scriptures and how we must not yield ourselves as slaves to anything, and they have no concern for striving in greater sanctification...these are the ones that should examine themselves to see whether or not they are in the faith.
If you want to see a short 3 or so minute question & answer type explanation on this subject, please visit the following page. It is Pastor John Piper giving his input on the matter:
http://www.desiringgod.org/Resource...smokes_does_that_mean_theyre_not_a_Christian/
The phrase "All things are lawful for me" was a quote used frequently by the Corinthians in order to keep themselves comfortable in their antinomianism. People were indulging in the flesh without any control over themselves. Paul countered their quote with a more biblical and God-honoring minded alternative. The verse is specifically referring to food, and being mastered by food would of course be gluttony. The important thing to be derived from this text is the principle of not being mastered by anything. If you are being mastered by something, then there is work to do, a battle to wage, and sanctification to pursue. This would involve anything that enslaves anybody, including smoking/drinking, playing video games, overeating, no control over spending, various addictions, etc. As people of God we are slaves to one, that is Jesus Christ. Everything else must be fought against.
(Romans 6:16) Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
If you yield your body to the addictive act of smoking, you are presenting yourself as a slave to it. Yet we must not be "mastered by anything," save Christ.
Just because a Christian smokes does not necessarily mean they're not a Christian. Whether or not a person smokes is not the dividing factor determining salvation or not. Some Christians smoke and are ignorant of it...but if they are God's, then He will sooner or later bring them to conviction. Some Christians smoke and are struggling with it; they have their ups and downs, but the important thing is there's a fight. Now people who claim to be Christian and are aware of these Scriptures and how we must not yield ourselves as slaves to anything, and they have no concern for striving in greater sanctification...these are the ones that should examine themselves to see whether or not they are in the faith.
If you want to see a short 3 or so minute question & answer type explanation on this subject, please visit the following page. It is Pastor John Piper giving his input on the matter:
http://www.desiringgod.org/Resource...smokes_does_that_mean_theyre_not_a_Christian/
Can I ask? Which do you think would upset God more? Someone who smokes as a Christian? or simeone who criticised their fellow Christians and looked down on them because they are not on their social level? We all jhave things that need dealing with in our lives, smoking is just one of them and should not be considered worse than many others
I believe that what matters most to God is showing love, mercy, compassion kindness to others, a lack of this is worse to me than smoking, because it goes to the heart, and Jesus demanded we love one another
I repeat no-one should smoke for the sake of their health and there is an ill discipline in it. But I have seen many times the Christian who smokes being told he must stop, while those who tell him this are not saying it in love
I believe that what matters most to God is showing love, mercy, compassion kindness to others, a lack of this is worse to me than smoking, because it goes to the heart, and Jesus demanded we love one another
I repeat no-one should smoke for the sake of their health and there is an ill discipline in it. But I have seen many times the Christian who smokes being told he must stop, while those who tell him this are not saying it in love
D
Someone who smokes as a Christian who refuses to consider the Scriptures over the matter would anger God. Someone who criticizes other Christians and looks down upon them also angers God. There is no "I'm okay because there are people worse than me" - what matters is God pleased or displeased with you, regardless of what others are doing? Yes there are many people who claim to be Christian and harshly criticize other Christians and look down upon them, despising them. This is not faithful Christianity as we are to be characterized by humility, truth, and love. Many people don't really love other Christians, but they desire to conform other people to themselves in order to bring themselves glory; these are the ones that despise others and have a "holier than thou" mentality. This is evil and angers God greatly; it was the problem of the Pharisees.
However, there are many Christians as well who are loving and are truly concerned for their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, and they do speak out against the sin in their lives. This is not wrong at all, for Jesus bids His people to rebuke fellow Christians when they fall into sin (Luke 17:3). I know there are many times where hypocritical Christians who despise others harshly criticize others, but at the same time, there are many other times as well, where genuine Christians reach out in love to correct another Christian, but they react out of anger and tell the person correcting them that they are "wrong for judging." Both of these cases are equally wrong. We indeed have a duty to correct fellow Christians, but it must be with love; the concern must be for God's glory and for their soul's sake. Too many people who are confronted by their sins lash out and say "Stop judging! Only God judges" or they'll quote Matthew 7:1 which says, "Judge not, lest you be judged." Again, if a person is not correcting another for 1) the glory of God and 2) the person's soul's sake, then what they're doing is wrong; and if a person is correcting one for these reasons and the person sinning tries to justify themselves, this also is wrong.
However, there are many Christians as well who are loving and are truly concerned for their fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, and they do speak out against the sin in their lives. This is not wrong at all, for Jesus bids His people to rebuke fellow Christians when they fall into sin (Luke 17:3). I know there are many times where hypocritical Christians who despise others harshly criticize others, but at the same time, there are many other times as well, where genuine Christians reach out in love to correct another Christian, but they react out of anger and tell the person correcting them that they are "wrong for judging." Both of these cases are equally wrong. We indeed have a duty to correct fellow Christians, but it must be with love; the concern must be for God's glory and for their soul's sake. Too many people who are confronted by their sins lash out and say "Stop judging! Only God judges" or they'll quote Matthew 7:1 which says, "Judge not, lest you be judged." Again, if a person is not correcting another for 1) the glory of God and 2) the person's soul's sake, then what they're doing is wrong; and if a person is correcting one for these reasons and the person sinning tries to justify themselves, this also is wrong.
I have found in life that when a Christian is told they must stop smoking by another Christian it is never being done in love. The Christian themselves knows it is better not to smoke. In effect when another Christian then tells them what they already know they will not be helped.
I notice you wrote that someone should consider whether they are a Christian if they continue in things like smoking. I am grateful that God does not think like that. I know someone who has smoked for over thirty years. They are baptised in the Holy Spirit, this was confirmed to them by a very well known minister, and they speak and pray in tongues. Now I don't think God questions whether they are a Christian or not.
I went to a fundamentalist church once. Anyone who smoked was looked down on. Scripture was reemed off as to why they should not smoke. But the church lacked, love, mercy, compassion.
I learnt that God looks at us with love, despite our faults, our fellow Christians are often not driven by this.
I notice you wrote that someone should consider whether they are a Christian if they continue in things like smoking. I am grateful that God does not think like that. I know someone who has smoked for over thirty years. They are baptised in the Holy Spirit, this was confirmed to them by a very well known minister, and they speak and pray in tongues. Now I don't think God questions whether they are a Christian or not.
I went to a fundamentalist church once. Anyone who smoked was looked down on. Scripture was reemed off as to why they should not smoke. But the church lacked, love, mercy, compassion.
I learnt that God looks at us with love, despite our faults, our fellow Christians are often not driven by this.
D
It seems to me that you are so embittered towards people who have been critical and harsh to others that you believe it is impossible for someone who is genuine to come along and do what the Bible tells them to. My friend, just because you've never seen a Christian tell another in love that a particular thing is a sin doesn't mean that it's never done! Did you know that Jesus Christ Himself declared that out of all the people who claim to be Christians, a vast majority of them are actually lost and on their way to Hell? He said that among those who call themselves Christians, only few will actually go to Heaven. Read for yourself in Matthew 7:13-23. So it's no wonder why you haven't seen a genuine Christian act in love when speaking out against sin. I have seen it done and I know of churches where it's done on a daily basis; the rebuke is well given and it is well received.
Alot of people who sin know that their sinning is wrong. That is precisely why loving rebuke is absolutely necessary in the church. Jesus Himself said very clearly in Luke 17:3 that when a brother/sister falls into sin, we are to rebuke them. Are you then going to deny a commandment of the Lord just because you've been around a bunch of hypocrites who are harsh and critical? May it never be! You should strive to find a more godly setting then where you can be around believers who are compassionate and loving and who do not tolerate unrepentant sin at the same time. The issue is not perfection, it is one of striving and struggling. If a person is not struggling against sin, they must be corrected. If a person has their ups and downs, but they are fighting, then they don't need to be criticized but encouraged.
You said you're glad God doesn't think like that? Well according to the Bible...God does think like that. When Jesus saved the prostitute who was about to be stoned to death, He told her, "Now go and sin no more" (John 8:11). Jesus said, "Not everyone who calls Me, 'Lord' will enter the kingdom of Heaven. Only those who do the will of My Father will enter. Many will say to me on that day [of judgment], 'Lord, Lord!' But I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" (Matthew 7:21-23). As you can see from Scripture alone, God does not tolerate unrepentant sin. Jesus expects His people to "go and sin no more" like He said, and those who go to Heaven will not be those who continue on in their sins but who do the will of God. I encourage that you read your Bible carefully and see that God isn't as much of a pushover as we tend to think. What country do you know that allows its citizens to carry on with blatant irregard to the law, running around committing crimes all the time and getting away with it? There is none; in every country there is always a law and it is enforced. Do you think Jesus is any different? Jesus is a King and those who are saved enter into a Kingdom. The citizens of this kingdom are marked by a careful sriving to honor the law of Christ. Remember what Jesus said, "Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!" Those who reject the commandments of the Lord will be thrust out into Hell. And this is precisely why Christians are to lovingly correct fellow Christians, because they love them and don't want them to continue on in sin for fear of them ending up in Hell.
Alot of people who sin know that their sinning is wrong. That is precisely why loving rebuke is absolutely necessary in the church. Jesus Himself said very clearly in Luke 17:3 that when a brother/sister falls into sin, we are to rebuke them. Are you then going to deny a commandment of the Lord just because you've been around a bunch of hypocrites who are harsh and critical? May it never be! You should strive to find a more godly setting then where you can be around believers who are compassionate and loving and who do not tolerate unrepentant sin at the same time. The issue is not perfection, it is one of striving and struggling. If a person is not struggling against sin, they must be corrected. If a person has their ups and downs, but they are fighting, then they don't need to be criticized but encouraged.
You said you're glad God doesn't think like that? Well according to the Bible...God does think like that. When Jesus saved the prostitute who was about to be stoned to death, He told her, "Now go and sin no more" (John 8:11). Jesus said, "Not everyone who calls Me, 'Lord' will enter the kingdom of Heaven. Only those who do the will of My Father will enter. Many will say to me on that day [of judgment], 'Lord, Lord!' But I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!" (Matthew 7:21-23). As you can see from Scripture alone, God does not tolerate unrepentant sin. Jesus expects His people to "go and sin no more" like He said, and those who go to Heaven will not be those who continue on in their sins but who do the will of God. I encourage that you read your Bible carefully and see that God isn't as much of a pushover as we tend to think. What country do you know that allows its citizens to carry on with blatant irregard to the law, running around committing crimes all the time and getting away with it? There is none; in every country there is always a law and it is enforced. Do you think Jesus is any different? Jesus is a King and those who are saved enter into a Kingdom. The citizens of this kingdom are marked by a careful sriving to honor the law of Christ. Remember what Jesus said, "Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!" Those who reject the commandments of the Lord will be thrust out into Hell. And this is precisely why Christians are to lovingly correct fellow Christians, because they love them and don't want them to continue on in sin for fear of them ending up in Hell.
I am grateful you accept all of the Bible verses. The Apostle said he was under Christ's law He explained what that was.
Carry each others burdens and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. Gal6:2
I absolutely agree many who call themselves Christians will not get into the kingdom of Heaven, on that we completely agree, but may diverge on which type of Christians that may be.
You say if a person is not struggling against sin they must be corrected, and that we must strive for sanctification
Spurgeon said it is the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us when we put our faith in Christ. I believe that is a good way to put it, otherwise it might appear that by our own effort we are expected to succeed, this is unbiblical, and would suggest we can take some otf the credit, it is not oursa to have.
Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? Afetr begining with the Spirt, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Gal3:3
We have one righteousness for Heaven as long as we live, Christ's death on the cross for us, none other. Our righteousness is faith in Christ that he died for our sins, a faith given to us by grace.
Carry each others burdens and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. Gal6:2
I absolutely agree many who call themselves Christians will not get into the kingdom of Heaven, on that we completely agree, but may diverge on which type of Christians that may be.
You say if a person is not struggling against sin they must be corrected, and that we must strive for sanctification
Spurgeon said it is the Holy Spirit who sanctifies us when we put our faith in Christ. I believe that is a good way to put it, otherwise it might appear that by our own effort we are expected to succeed, this is unbiblical, and would suggest we can take some otf the credit, it is not oursa to have.
Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? Afetr begining with the Spirt, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Gal3:3
We have one righteousness for Heaven as long as we live, Christ's death on the cross for us, none other. Our righteousness is faith in Christ that he died for our sins, a faith given to us by grace.
D
I hope you are careful to quote Spurgeon in context. Consider these Scriptures:
(Romans 8:13) For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
(Philippians 2:12-13) Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
The Bible teaches that we are justified by Christ alone apart from ANY works we could ever do. The Bible teaches that we are depraved and utterly lost and cannot do anything to please God. The Bible also says that God works in us. It tells us that we cannot do anything apart from the Holy Spirit. However, the Bible also teaches that, by the Holy Spirit, we are not only expected but able by God to do what He has commanded us to do. We are commanded to put to death the deeds of the body. We cannot do this alone; it is only possible with the Holy Spirit. But nonetheless we are the ones commanded to do it. And in Philippians we are commanded to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. The Holy Spirit isn't the one in fear and trembling, the person is. And through it all, the reason we are made able to do these in Christ, is because God working in us to will and do His good pleasure. But don't negate your participation and relax yourself in an unbiblical defeatism mentality. Jesus said Himself, "With God anything is possible."
(Romans 8:13) For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
(Philippians 2:12-13) Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
The Bible teaches that we are justified by Christ alone apart from ANY works we could ever do. The Bible teaches that we are depraved and utterly lost and cannot do anything to please God. The Bible also says that God works in us. It tells us that we cannot do anything apart from the Holy Spirit. However, the Bible also teaches that, by the Holy Spirit, we are not only expected but able by God to do what He has commanded us to do. We are commanded to put to death the deeds of the body. We cannot do this alone; it is only possible with the Holy Spirit. But nonetheless we are the ones commanded to do it. And in Philippians we are commanded to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. The Holy Spirit isn't the one in fear and trembling, the person is. And through it all, the reason we are made able to do these in Christ, is because God working in us to will and do His good pleasure. But don't negate your participation and relax yourself in an unbiblical defeatism mentality. Jesus said Himself, "With God anything is possible."
I suppose Dane_G87, that my issue with what you are saying, is that it doesn't seem to flow from love. It's always a list of do's and don'ts that you seem to give us. We have to strive, we have to fear, we have to gouge out our eyes, we have to this or that. To me that sounds like gathering straw and making bricks.
Why can I not place my trust in God, and just be moved by His love? Why can I not trust Him, that He will do all that is required for me to be holy and righteous? According to your faith be it unto you, Jesus said. Why is a living faith in Christ not sufficient?
What you are saying seems identical to what we were taught in my old church, and that turned out to be a bad church. No one I knew from that church - save one that remains - that shared this perspective on Christianity now holds that same view. I am the last of our group of 10-15 souls here in Western Canada that have come to understand God's grace.
Quest
Why can I not place my trust in God, and just be moved by His love? Why can I not trust Him, that He will do all that is required for me to be holy and righteous? According to your faith be it unto you, Jesus said. Why is a living faith in Christ not sufficient?
What you are saying seems identical to what we were taught in my old church, and that turned out to be a bad church. No one I knew from that church - save one that remains - that shared this perspective on Christianity now holds that same view. I am the last of our group of 10-15 souls here in Western Canada that have come to understand God's grace.
Quest