I need advice ASAP! It's something about dream catchers.

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mikeysaurus

Guest
#1
#1
I asked a friend of mine what she would like me to make for her as a birthday present because I'm good at making stuff and prefer it to most store bought presents and she answered saying 'a dream catcher'. And she is a reaaaally close friend of mine and I got all excited about doing it for her and gave her the idea that I will and then I realized what a dream catcher really is and did more research on it and began to get worried.

For those of you who don't know what a dream catcher is it's a beautifully crafted Native American handicraft which despite it's overall aesthetic appeal is actually based on some Native American spider god and is supposed to catch evil dreams and good dreams and filter out only the good and it could become a gateway for evil spirits now that I think about it because the Native American tradition is based a lot on spirits and stuff. My problem is that I don't know what to do now! Do I make it for her or not??

Do note that on one hand she's not Christian and not much into any god while on the other hand I might feel guilty if I gave her something related to a pagan god being a Christian myself.
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#2
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
9,601
113
#2
I have several dreamcatchers. They aren't pagan. And if they catch evil dreams, then that's good. :) I just use them as decorations for my house. I say go ahead and make it for her.
 
M

mikeysaurus

Guest
#3
#3
blue_ladybug said:
I have several dreamcatchers. They aren't pagan. And if they catch evil dreams, then that's good. :) I just use them as decorations for my house. I say go ahead and make it for her.
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But we have Jesus to take our evil dreams! It's like I'd be knowingly giving power to something else that was made in the name of another god to do our god's job even if I don't mean to :/ and she isn't me but she's still my friend and I don't know... I'm so confused.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#4
#4
I would not make it. I'm sure your friend has other interests. Look into one of those.




They are pagan. As the OP said, it's based in native american superstition and religion.


"Frances Densmore conducted an extensive study of material culture of the Ojibwe/Chippewa living in Minnesota, Wisconsin and Ontario, Canada in the early 1900's and the information is presented in the book, Chippewa Customs, published by Minnesota Historical Society Press (St. Paul) in 1979. Densmore describes that articles representing spider webs were usually hung from the hoop of a child's cradle board, and it was said that 'they catch and hold everything evil as a spider's web catches and holds everything that comes into contact with it'. These 'dream catchers' were wooden hoops with a 3 1/2 in. diameter, filled with a web made of nettle-stalk cord that was dyed red with bloodroot and wild plum inner bark. It is interesting to note that the 'weave' of the dream catcher photographed in Densmore's work is different from that usually done today. By the early 1900's, dark red yarn had been substituted for plant fiber in constructing the web by the Ojibwe. Densmore also mentions a similar netted-hoop made by the Pawnee to represent the Spider-Woman, a spirit who controlled the buffalo."
NativeTech: Dream Catchers




"There were also legends of the spirit world and the deepest recesses of the mind - which was thought by some to play out in a person's dreams. These dreams, while believed to be revealing in nature, could be affected by the energy in the area that was slept in. The Ojibwe, (sometimes spelled Ojibwa) nation created what are now known as "dream catchers".

"Dream Catchers became especially popular in the later sixties and seventies when many "new age" groups outside of the Native American cultures began designing them for mass profit."

"According to Ojibwe custom, as dream catchers are being made, the story of the Seven Fires should be told and pondered upon. The story itself involves the Seven Prophets coming to the Atlantic coast of North America to the Anishinabe, or the first people."

This is a prophecy made by 7 spiritual leaders, making 7 predictions about the future of the Native Americans. It ends with "Out of this destruction, the New People would be born and would seek to continue the voice of the ancestors."

https://exemplore.com/misc/History-and-Tradition-of-the-Dream-Catcher


Sounds an awful lot like superstition and pagan gods to me, Blue.
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#5
#5
they are pretty, but not something a Christian should be hanging up in their home

and here's why:


Essentially, a dream catcher is intended to manipulate the spirit world. Some people believe in the efficacy of dream catchers. Others are unsure but are superstitious enough to keep one in the bedroom. Still others see dream catchers as part of a cultural history or a piece of art that looks good dangling from a rear-view mirror.

the entire article is HERE
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
#6
#6
Just try and explain to your friend your understanding and concern as you give her a better gift... Back in my days of serving the enemy I knew a warlock that made those things ..they are not just harmless "do dads" in my view.
 
BruceWayne

BruceWayne

Senior Member
#7
Aug 7, 2013
3,694
357
83
Gotham City
#7
If she's like most people and just likes how it looks and wants it as a decoration, then I don't really see what the big deal is. It's not like its actually going to do any of those things. But If you aren't comfortable with it, then don't. I'm sure she'll understand and be happy with anything you make for her.
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#8
#8
well, not to argue with well meaning people, but things like this attract demons

sorry but they do

and that is why we should not have things in the home that God calls detestable

It's not how we perceive them...like I said; they are pretty

but we would not have a buddha in our home (at least I hope not) and same applies to anything like that

I really do understand both POV's, so I won't respond again but it's something to at least consider I would think
 
blue_ladybug

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
#9
Feb 21, 2014
70,869
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#9
BruceWayne said:
If she's like most people and just likes how it looks and wants it as a decoration, then I don't really see what the big deal is. It's not like its actually going to do any of those things. But If you aren't comfortable with it, then don't. I'm sure she'll understand and be happy with anything you make for her.
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This is taken from the same article that Lauren posted: "The christian understands that false gods are nothing and that the dream catcher HAS NO POWER IN ITSELF. The believer in Christ could easily see a dreamcatcher as nothing more than a craft or cultural expression. Keeping a dream catcher is a matter of conscience, as long as it is NOT used as a good luck charm, it is innocent enough."

I agree with Bruce. It's all in the context of how you use it, that matters. If she wants it because she likes them and wants it as decoration, then make it for her. But if you KNOW she'll treat it as a good luck charm, then give her something else..
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#10
#10
blue_ladybug said:
This is taken from the same article that Lauren posted: "The christian understands that false gods are nothing and that the dream catcher HAS NO POWER IN ITSELF. The believer in Christ could easily see a dreamcatcher as nothing more than a craft or cultural expression. Keeping a dream catcher is a matter of conscience, as long as it is NOT used as a good luck charm, it is innocent enough."

I agree with Bruce. It's all in the context of how you use it, that matters. If she wants it because she likes them and wants it as decoration, then make it for her. But if you KNOW she'll treat it as a good luck charm, then give her something else..
Click to expand...

I'm glad you took the time to follow the link :)

I have a different perspective, as I said, but I appreciate you looking into it

I don't think we should try and convince others of what we ourselves believe unless we see them in real danger and we can help

There is also the scripture in the NT where Paul is speaking of meat offered to idols, so in the end it is between us and God

Thanks!
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#11
#11
Well, the Op has a doubt in her mind about making it at all. That should be the first deciding factor and not what the friend will use it for. If their conscience in bothered at the idea of making it then that's the last consideration that needs to be made and answers the question right from the beginning.

Of those so easily dismissing it, what if you had a friend that collected Satanic pentagrams, but was an atheist that just liked the look of them, and, being an atheist, obviously not using them for anything spiritual, just as decoration. Would you be comfortable providing them with a pentagram with a goats head overlayed on it and cryptic symbols around it?
What if a Christian friend of yours collected them? How would you feel walking into a new church and seeing a member of their praise and worship team with a big satanic pentagram necklace, on stage playing worship? How about if it was the pastor preaching while wearing one? But only for decoration, and not because it means anything to them. Would that have any sway on how you viewed the church or the individual?
And no, you can't claim 'that's different' and take a weak, manipulative way out. It's a yes or no question. If you truly believe that these symbols mean nothing at all then you have to accept that about all symbols and all people wearing them. To do any less is to not hold to your own words.
 
A

AuntieAnt

Guest
#12
#12
Is there anything under the sun that hasn't been perverted into something evil? I've had Christians rebuke me for having frog & owl knick-knacks in my home. We can see anything as evil... or as good.

Truthfully, I think it's the perfect opportunity to introduce Jesus. You can make the gift, then sweetly laugh with your friend about the dream catcher and how it's only a fairy tale... then tell her about your perfect peace in Christ & how he watches over us even when we're sleeping. :eek:

But if you doubt in your heart and have unrest about it, do whatever gives you perfect peace. Above all, ask God who gives us wisdom every time we ask. He's always faithful. ♥
 
J

Jeshuvan

Pastor
Staff member
#13
Apr 15, 2012
221
2
0
#13
hi God Bless u.When there is confusion it is not of God.I wouldnt give it to her.Pray be lead by God.A birthday is a wonderful time to share God with her,because God created her and has a wonderful plan for her life.Nobody loves her as God does.Also a time to be so thankful,tell her u r so happy god gave her to u as a special friend.Give of yourself to her,its eternal and hits deep into ones heart.Read some scripture to her about Gods love towards her,then Go to eat something or give her something with Gods word on it.Dont be concerned this is an easy one.Dont let Gods peace and joy be taken from u.God Bless Jesh.
 
W

wwjd_kilden

Guest
#14
#14
I was stupid enough to buy a dreamcatcher once. Just because it looked pretty.
It gave me nightmares two or three nights in a row, starting the first night after I bought it.
I moved it to a different room. No more nightmares.
I moved away, returned half a year later, and happened to sleep in that other room. New nightmare.
At that point I tore it apart and threw it away. It was years before I had another nightmare.
 
Demi777

Demi777

Senior Member
#15
Oct 13, 2014
6,877
1,949
113
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#15
Oh oh looks like you had a pretty bad cursed one there sis. I had one and it didnt give me any issues till my father started cursing it. They can very much cause hel to break loose if it gets into the wrong hands

wwjd_kilden said:
I was stupid enough to buy a dreamcatcher once. Just because it looked pretty.
It gave me nightmares two or three nights in a row, starting the first night after I bought it.
I moved it to a different room. No more nightmares.
I moved away, returned half a year later, and happened to sleep in that other room. New nightmare.
At that point I tore it apart and threw it away. It was years before I had another nightmare.
Click to expand...
 
M

mikeysaurus

Guest
#16
#16
Demi777 said:
Oh oh looks like you had a pretty bad cursed one there sis. I had one and it didnt give me any issues till my father started cursing it. They can very much cause hel to break loose if it gets into the wrong hands
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That is more than enough for me, I'll just make her a photo frame or something. There has to be something better out there right? Something that doesn't involve false gods. Thanks for the real live example
 
M

mikeysaurus

Guest
#17
#17
wwjd_kilden said:
I was stupid enough to buy a dreamcatcher once. Just because it looked pretty.
It gave me nightmares two or three nights in a row, starting the first night after I bought it.
I moved it to a different room. No more nightmares.
I moved away, returned half a year later, and happened to sleep in that other room. New nightmare.
At that point I tore it apart and threw it away. It was years before I had another nightmare.
Click to expand...
That sounds awful. I mean I know from experience that when the Lord governs our rest it will be peaceful and not troubled but I understand what you're saying. Idols and objects dedicated to other gods can be very powerful gateways for demons to become active and when we involve ourselves with them it is disobedient. Thank you so much for sharing this real life experience. I'm never going to put a friend of mine through even the slightest risk of this.
 
M

mikeysaurus

Guest
#18
#18
Jeshuvan said:
hi God Bless u.When there is confusion it is not of God.I wouldnt give it to her.Pray be lead by God.A birthday is a wonderful time to share God with her,because God created her and has a wonderful plan for her life.Nobody loves her as God does.Also a time to be so thankful,tell her u r so happy god gave her to u as a special friend.Give of yourself to her,its eternal and hits deep into ones heart.Read some scripture to her about Gods love towards her,then Go to eat something or give her something with Gods word on it.Dont be concerned this is an easy one.Dont let Gods peace and joy be taken from u.God Bless Jesh.
Click to expand...
Thank you so much.
 
M

mikeysaurus

Guest
#19
#19
Ugly said:
I would not make it. I'm sure your friend has other interests. Look into one of those.




They are pagan. As the OP said, it's based in native american superstition and religion.


"Frances Densmore conducted an extensive study of material culture of the Ojibwe/Chippewa living in Minnesota, Wisconsin and Ontario, Canada in the early 1900's and the information is presented in the book, Chippewa Customs, published by Minnesota Historical Society Press (St. Paul) in 1979. Densmore describes that articles representing spider webs were usually hung from the hoop of a child's cradle board, and it was said that 'they catch and hold everything evil as a spider's web catches and holds everything that comes into contact with it'. These 'dream catchers' were wooden hoops with a 3 1/2 in. diameter, filled with a web made of nettle-stalk cord that was dyed red with bloodroot and wild plum inner bark. It is interesting to note that the 'weave' of the dream catcher photographed in Densmore's work is different from that usually done today. By the early 1900's, dark red yarn had been substituted for plant fiber in constructing the web by the Ojibwe. Densmore also mentions a similar netted-hoop made by the Pawnee to represent the Spider-Woman, a spirit who controlled the buffalo."
NativeTech: Dream Catchers




"There were also legends of the spirit world and the deepest recesses of the mind - which was thought by some to play out in a person's dreams. These dreams, while believed to be revealing in nature, could be affected by the energy in the area that was slept in. The Ojibwe, (sometimes spelled Ojibwa) nation created what are now known as "dream catchers".

"Dream Catchers became especially popular in the later sixties and seventies when many "new age" groups outside of the Native American cultures began designing them for mass profit."

"According to Ojibwe custom, as dream catchers are being made, the story of the Seven Fires should be told and pondered upon. The story itself involves the Seven Prophets coming to the Atlantic coast of North America to the Anishinabe, or the first people."

This is a prophecy made by 7 spiritual leaders, making 7 predictions about the future of the Native Americans. It ends with "Out of this destruction, the New People would be born and would seek to continue the voice of the ancestors."

https://exemplore.com/misc/History-and-Tradition-of-the-Dream-Catcher


Sounds an awful lot like superstition and pagan gods to me, Blue.
Click to expand...
This is so informative, thank you so much! My resolve has been made firm. I guess I know where that restlessness was coming from within me :) I don't think that the Holy Spirit would have been very pleased if I went ahead with this.
 
M

mikeysaurus

Guest
#20
#20
LaurenTM said:
they are pretty, but not something a Christian should be hanging up in their home

and here's why:


Essentially, a dream catcher is intended to manipulate the spirit world. Some people believe in the efficacy of dream catchers. Others are unsure but are superstitious enough to keep one in the bedroom. Still others see dream catchers as part of a cultural history or a piece of art that looks good dangling from a rear-view mirror.

the entire article is HERE
Click to expand...
I agree, though I was going to give handmade ones to my friend who is an unbeliever. I would never put one up in my own home. I agree with your article. The effects of these are very real. The world needs to know.
 
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