Catholicism

FranC · May 16, 2017

Based on the above and your post no. 258, I respectfully refuse to converse with you.

If YOU haven't fallen and hit your head, and can still read, I suggest you read up on Church history, since it seems you know NOTHING about it.

Just a couple of thoughts:

1. I know how many people are in MY cemetary.

2. Macabees was removed by Luther since it did not agree with the new doctrines he aspired to. Please read you history. It was inspired for more than 1,500 years because it was in the O.T.

3. The Catholic Church believes in the same God you do.

4. Please study up on the history of Christianity.

5. If it were not for the crusades, YOU would be speaking Arabic. YOU would be a muslim.
There were no Protestants around at the time of the Crusades. They were against the Islamists just like the ones of today that want to cut YOUR head off and take over the world. The RCC STOPPED them and it took over 100 years. You should be thanful to the RCC. You should read up on Church history.

6. How are you so sure YOU aren't following the false religion? Do you think God is Protestant??

FranC · May 16, 2017

PrynceNY said:

I've asked Jesus for health. No deal.
I guess I don't get it BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FAITH.

And you think Catholics teach wrong doctrine.

I'd take a look in the mirror and try to keep quiet and love my Brothers in the Lord.

I believe YOU probably have more incorrect doctrine than Catholics do.

FranC · May 16, 2017

Rockrz said:

Oh my.
I just saw this:

You wrote:

You'll see unless you repent and turn from your false jesus and his momma unto the true Jesus

I'm sure JESUS, who is GOD, who created you and the universe and everything in it,
will be most happy to hear you call HIS MOTHER, Mary, "momma".

Oh yeah.
Incredible how those who know the ONE TRUE JESUS, love to disrespect His Mother, whom He loved very much and who was at the foot of the cross watching her Son die that horrible Death.

Incredible.

tourist · May 16, 2017

Rockrz said:

What denomination teaches absolute correct spiritual doctrine in your opinion?

17Bees · May 16, 2017

FranC said:

Rockrz said:

And His mother was present while all His disciples were mysteriously absent! Look, Rockrz, if you believe that Christ was born of the virgin Mary, conceived by the Holy Spirit, died on the cross then arose from the dead and ascended in bone and flesh into heaven leaving His blood on the ground at Calvary, then you must also know that His mother Mary's DNA now sits on the right hand of God the Father Almighty whom we know by scripture was blessed among all women. That makes her pretty darn Holy in my ungodly devil Catholic mind.

I will say without too much reservation that there is some Marian dogma that I do actually resist. I don't believe in Immaculate Conception. I understand the church's reasoning, but this was something argued for many many years before Pius IX and I never fully understood Augustine's resistance to even hearing any debate. Anyway, things might change but I still have problems with it. That doesn't diminish any sense of Mary's holiness and importance in my own faith though. It's just that I think I have to think this stuff out and be as flexible as I can without compromising my values and more importantly, not changing the written values of God.

Rockrz · May 16, 2017

I won't argue with that... here's what the Lord said in His Word to do about those that espouse false doctrine:

[FONT=&quot] Romans 16:17,18[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple

1 Timothy 6:3-5
If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

1 Timothy 4:1,2
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 John 1:10
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Matthew 24:3-8
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ (I am anointed); and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows. [/FONT]

I suggest you read GOD's WORD since you obviously do not know His Word seeing you advocate for extra biblical teaching that does not come from the true Jesus but instead comes from another jesus, that imposter satan.

God Personally influenced numerous people to not count this writing as part of God's Word because... it's not inspired by God and does not agree with the rest of God's Word.

You'd be better of reading Mad Magazine than the so-called book of Macabees.

The God I serve can only be contacted thru Jesus Christ... not thru mary and dead saints.

Sorry, no we do not believe in the same God, and in the end this will become apparent.

Please study God's Word and learn to see things from His point of view... the only viewpoint that matters.

That's false... the RCC has a bloody history of murdering Protestants who reject false cathloholic doctrine because it's extra biblical and does not come from God having been inspired by satan.

Yes, God Almighty "protests" false catholik doctrine because it did not come from the true Living God and was instead inspired by satan just like all other false religions that may do some good works and appear to be good on the surface, but underneath is a den of wolves seeking to deceive the flock and lead them straight to hell.

This is why the Lord started the reformation to get people to quit following false catholik doctrine and go back to God's written Word... so people could actually get saved rather than serving a dead, satanic religon which takes people to hell.

Incredible how those who know the ONE TRUE JESUS, love to disrespect His Mother

Calling Marry "momma" is no disrespect at all... she was Jesus' Mom was she not? At least it's not a problem for those that do not worship marry which is idolatry.

Mary did in fact do a feat of faith by believing God and allowing God to use her to bring forth Jesus in a physical body... but, beyond that she is now totally out of the picture and is no co-redeemer along with Jesus.

To say that she is, is in fact heresy as well as praying to her as this is communicating with the dead which is sinful!

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

She ain't no more special than the other servants of God listed in the New Testament that did feats of faith believing God and being in agreement with Him.

True Christians do not worship mary, paul, peter, and any of the rest of them simply because... Jesus Christ shares His Glory with nobody! He alone is Lord and there is no instructions or call to actions from the Lord instructing His people to pray to, contact, or worship anybody other than God.

In the end we will see those that do this sort of thing will be told to depart from the Lord because they are workers of iniquity.

That's exactly what satan would like to see you do... be "flexible" and "open minded" so he can put some stuff in you that does not come from God as he is ALWAYS at work seeking to deceive and to lead astray.

The simple key to not falling pray to 'ol slewfoot is to take God at His Word and reject that which is in opposition to God's Word and no... yer pope guy does not speak for God and is not authorized to add to or take away from that which God has already said in His written Word!

FranC · May 17, 2017

17Bees said:

FranC said:

I agree totally with you. I also don't understand why it was necessary to make the ascension a doctrine. It might be a dogma, I can't remember. (I've taught in the CAtholic Church)

It's interesting that none of the Apostles, except John, were present at the cross. First of all, he's the apostle and N.T. writer that most teaches about the love of Jesus. HE's the one we should be listening to, I think, maybe instead of Paul? Paul used Language that has caused problems for those who only read the bible and do not study theology.

Anyway, back to the Apostles. How can we know the resurrection was real? Because after hiding out at Mary's house in Bethany for about a week, or less, the re-emerged full of confidence and courage. What could have caused this but seeing a person who they knew to be dead, come back to life!

Tinuviel · May 17, 2017

Hey peeps

. Maybe this request is way out in left-field, but as a teen I feel like I am not stepping out of my bounds to at least make the request, if you decide to follow it or not is your decision. This thread really has nothing to do with teens anymore, so if we want to discuss this, could we reply to the thread and carry on the conversation elsewhere?

Rockrz · May 17, 2017

Thanks for sharing... this explains a lot.

You might want to see if you can find catholik doctrine in God's written Word, and when you can't... you'll see that it's false doctrine.

That's not true according to what God says:

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Being a cherry picker is how false doctrine gets started. God says it's all His Word so we need to look at ALL of it, not just bits and pieces

Ol'slewfoot is very happy with this comment

Really??? You're claiming theology is more true and more important than God's Word???

That's exactly what satan would like to see... people studying theology and not paying attention to God's Word.

Tinuviel · May 17, 2017

Yeah ok never mind. I guess there's really not another thread that this would belong in anyway.

FranC · May 17, 2017

Tinuviel said:

The person was asking if one has to be Catholic to go to heaven.

Mention the word Catholic and some who say they are Christian kind of lose thier mind.

That's why it got a little derailed.

Anyway, I don't even think the O.P. is around anymore.

The answer is that one has to be a BELIEVER to go to heaven.
He must follow the rules that Jesus set down.
It doesn't matter what denomination they are.
GOD IS A BIG GOD. All are welcome who believe in His Son.

And with that, I do believe this thread is closed.

Ahwatukee · May 17, 2017

Morning FranC,

What you have said above is true. And taking this into consideration, ask yourself the question, "are the practices and beliefs of Roman Catholicism in line with what Jesus and his word teaches?"

We need to be able to determine what constitutes a denomination from a false teaching?

For example, if we are instructed to pray to God the Father in the name of the Lord and you have those who are praying to Mary and to the saints, is this in keeping with scripture?

The word of God teaches that when a person receives Christ, they are saved by grace through faith and not by works. And when we sin as believers, if we confess our sins we He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. That said, is Roman Catholicism obeying the scriptures by believing that at the time of baptism original sin and all sin up to that point is forgiven, but any sin committed afterwards must be appeased through a priest by performing sacraments, which are works based?

I am bringing these things up to you to get you to think about who you are supporting. We have to be able to discern what is of God and what is not. Roman Catholicism is the mother of all false teachings. Do you think that God is glorified having an Egyptian, pagan obelisk sitting out in front of what is supposed to be the true church of God?

Satan has produced counterfeits of the church, which appear to have some of the characteristics of the church, but upon closer examination are found to be false. And some of them don't need closer examination, the Roman Catholic institution being one of them.

Regarding Roman Catholicism, God is calling those who belong to him to come out of her, i.e. to come away from her idolatrous practices and that because he will eventually have the beast and the ten kings destroy her.

I hope that you will truly consider this information. For if the practices and beliefs of Roman Catholicism can be deemed as Christian, then no other false teachings exist. For even Mormonism and JW's are laced with the truth.

Rockrz · May 17, 2017

Just start your own and when a subject is mentioned that others start talking about, just remind them that you don't want the thread to go off on a rabbit trail... and bring it back to whatever topic it is you want to discuss.

True biblical Christianity does not include extra biblical teachings of catholicism

catholicism teaches all sorts of things that did not come from God's Word which is why God rejects catholicism just like He rejects all other false religions simply because... He never said the stuff they claim He said!

This is so simple, children can understand it while other wise intelligent adults lose their mind over it and depart from the Word of the Living God into darkness.

This means rejecting the rule put down by all your popes... something catholkics refuse to do.

and, that aren't workers of iniquity such as adding to and taking away from God's Word.

FranC · May 18, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Hi A,

I'm going to take the time to explain really well what I think because I see too much animosity toward Catholics.
I've heard them called pagans and a cult. If every denomination we don't agree with is a cult, then there are many cults around.

So, are the practices of the RCC what Jesus and His word teach?
I would say yes. Everything they practice is biblically based except for two doctrine that I neither understand or agree with.
One is the Immaculate Conception. I know why they believe this. Jesus had to be born without sin. We are all born with sin.
So how to fix the problem? Mary had to be born without sin. Now, if God could create the universe, I would think He could figure out a way to forgive Mary of being born with sin. I guess this would be the Immaculate Conception. Maybe not. Maybe He could have figured out another way.

This brings us to the perpetual virginity of Mary. She had to be pure in every way and so she could not have any other children even though scripture clearly says that Joseph knew her not till after Jesus was born. Lastly, the assumption of Mary. She was taken body and soul into heaven. Why is this necessary? I don't understand this at all. They say that her body could not decompose and so she had to go directly to heaven.

I don't agree with these. All the problems seem to center around Mary. Maybe they gave her TOO MUCH Honor? We don't give her enough. No happy medium.

Other than this, what? Luther himself believed the host is the body and blood of Jesus. He called it cosubstantiation instead of transubstantiatiion, but it's basically the same thing. It's the Real Presence. If you read John 6 it IS difficult to understand how Jesus meant This Is My Body, This IS My Blood. He didn't SEEM to be speaking symbolically. Did you know that
John 6:54 (in the Greek) literally means to knaw on, to chew. How could we be absolutely sure what Jesus meant? it was over 2,000 years ago and to a different culture. We can know all the hermeneutics we want, we'll never know for sure.

Jesus had brothers. I believe He did. But the Catholic Church could make a good argument for the fact that no word existed for "Brother" everybody was a Brother, even a cousin. This is what they believe. It is not heretical.

Confession. Read John 20:22-23 and tell me if you had NO teaching from a Church, what would you understand this to mean?
It sounds like we ARE supposed to confess to someone with authority. The priest does not forgive sin, he just proclaims to the person that they are forgiven.

Baptism. Babie are baptized because God cannot stand to be in the presence of sin. SO, if a baby dies, he has the sin he was born with, original sin, what will happen to his soul if God is so perfect He cannot be with someone sinful? I hope you know that the RCC no longer teaches about this and Leaves the baby in the hands of God. Really limbo was never taught, but it was made up by some in the Church.

There would be much to say. Indulgences, the mistake of a Pope. Why, does every TV evangelist preach what YOU agree with?
Does that make him heretical?

I'd say that the early Universal or Catholic Church saved our faith. When heretics arose, the Church held councils and made statements as to the belief of the Church.

Did you ever study the Early Church Fathers? It's a really good historic study to show what the early theologians thought. I'd say we should listen to what they had to say. They were the closest to the Apostles. Ignatius of Antioch was a student of John the Apostle. Who knows more ? Them or the theologians who changed Christianity so much in the last 200 years or so. (not speaking of the reformation).

So why don't we think Calvinism is heretical? He downright changed the character and nature of God. He came along in 1,500. Did HE know more than the Early Church Theologians?? I'd say that is much more heretical than anything the RCC teaches that we may not agree with.

Oh. And they pray FOR dead people (and some pray TO them) because of the books of Macabees which Luther removed from the bible because they did not suit him. They were Always accepted by the Jews too in the O.T. So that is also based on the bible.

They teach salvation through Christ. Ephesians 2:8 and also §Galatians 2:16. I was at a bible study myself where this was taught.

Not everyone is coming out of the Church. Some are returning to it. Know why? All this arguing between us becomes tiring after a while. The problem with Protestantism is that there is not one final authority. We have the bible, and that is every Christian's authority. But what to do when we can't even agree on eternal salvation?

I have citicisms of the RCC that I could get into. But I have them of every Church I know. There is no perfect Church.
Jesus did say that we are baptized into one body. That we should love each other.

If someone believes in Jesus, that He died for their sins, that He rose again, in the Trinity, and live a life to the best of their ability as Jesus would want --- I consider them brothers in Christ, even though I may not agree with all of their doctrine.

1 Corinthians 12:13
John 13:35

Magenta · May 18, 2017

FranC said:

That makes you wrong.

Well, it sure ain't you! We have the Holy Spirit.

PrynceNY · May 18, 2017

FranC said:

I believe you tend to defend Catholics and their doctrines more than the actual scriptures which is unfortunate

FranC · May 18, 2017

Magenta said:

you think you do Magenta.
But you should read your posts back and then tell me the Holy Spirit inspired you to write them.

I'd say you need to rethink your Whole relationship with God.
And quit insulting other Christians and I also suggest you read Mathew 7.
Read the Whole chapter. You need to read the New Testament really badly. You and some Others.

FranC · May 18, 2017

PrynceNY said:

I will defend my brothers in the Lord till the Lord takes me home.

Ugly · May 18, 2017

FranC said:

Actually he is. I took the few seconds to check. But since he has OCD this kind of thread could send him into a spiral of anxiety and confusion.

And this thread sure doesn't look closed. So it seems you are not the final authority.

Lastly we get so many Catholics coming to this site sending mixed messages. They start out insisting they are Christians, often pushing the idea. But when asked why it's so important they deny that it matters at all. It has happened over and over on this site. Yet they remain on this site getting upset each time someone denies they are part of the Christian church and feels the need to argue time and again. But oddly they end up separating themselves by declaring the Catholic church the only true church, which would exclude protestants. But end their commentary about how we are just different denominations. It's almost like it's scripted.
Not sure why so many come here and argue their contradictions so vehemently.

Rockrz · May 18, 2017

No, Jesus was not the One telling you that... the devil was!

God already promised that in His Word as its part of God's plan of salvation.

It's in God's Word already so why not start with what God has already said???

Yeah, it's called being on the high way to hell.

There's still time to change the road yer on!

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