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Thread: Catholicism

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Catholicism

    Quote Originally Posted by FranC View Post
    YOU think you have the truth. The guy that goes to confession things HE has the truth. If each of you believe in your heart that you're doing the right thing, THIS is what you will be held accountable for. Fran
    I absolutely and passionately disagree.. Either going to confession is the truth or the Way i am following is the truth.. There cannot be two opposing truths.. Either Jesus wants us to go to a priest in a confessional and do penance to pay for our sins or He wants us to acknowledge our Sins to Him directly and thank Him for the atonement He provided us that Pays for our sins..

    If a person is in a state of ignorance of the true Way of salvation then i make no definite conclusion to their eternal destination.. But if they have been told the truth and reject it, Then they are responsible for their response to the will of God that was revealed to them..

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    Default Re: Catholicism

    amen brother
    Matthew 7:13-14

    Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adstar View Post
    I absolutely and passionately disagree.. Either going to confession is the truth or the Way i am following is the truth.. There cannot be two opposing truths.. Either Jesus wants us to go to a priest in a confessional and do penance to pay for our sins or He wants us to acknowledge our Sins to Him directly and thank Him for the atonement He provided us that Pays for our sins..

    If a person is in a state of ignorance of the true Way of salvation then i make no definite conclusion to their eternal destination.. But if they have been told the truth and reject it, Then they are responsible for their response to the will of God that was revealed to them..
    God bless you
    ~*~Demi777 ~*~

    My Testimony:
    http://christianchat.com/testimonies...shortened.html

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    Default Re: Catholicism

    Quote Originally Posted by 17Bees View Post
    Alex - just so there is a more complete picture of what scripture actually says about the forgiveness of sin, James 5:16 tells us specifically to confess our sins to one another. And to go a little further (and I'm paraphrasing from some writing by Joe Martignoni a Catholic apologist) in Matthew 9:6 Jesus says the authority to forgive sin was given to Him and two verses later in verse 8, that this very authority was given to "men" plural. In John 20:22 and 23 Jesus breathed on his Apostles at the time of His resurrection and said "...Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any they are forgiven, if you retain the sins of any they are retained". And in the verse before this, John 20:21 Jesus told his disciples that just as God sends Him, so He sends his Apostles with such authority through the Holy Spirit. This is not meaning that man forgives the sin, that power resides with God alone, but that God administers that power through the apostle's ministry. Catholics believe they are simply following the plan laid out by Christ by confessing their sin to Priests whom they consider to be apostle's of Christ's ministry.
    There is only one interceder between God and man which is Jesus Christ. The truth is no man is needed in that situation only Jesus. Not to mention many Catholic priest still teach false doctrines & perform pagan practices. If Catholics believe these priest are apostles of Christ ministry they are deceived & that includes the Pope.

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    Default Re: Catholicism

    Quote Originally Posted by Adstar View Post
    I absolutely and passionately disagree.. Either going to confession is the truth or the Way i am following is the truth.. There cannot be two opposing truths.. Either Jesus wants us to go to a priest in a confessional and do penance to pay for our sins or He wants us to acknowledge our Sins to Him directly and thank Him for the atonement He provided us that Pays for our sins..

    If a person is in a state of ignorance of the true Way of salvation then i make no definite conclusion to their eternal destination.. But if they have been told the truth and reject it, Then they are responsible for their response to the will of God that was revealed to them..
    Hi Adstar,
    I fear getting into this because I don't agree with Catholic theology. But here goes:

    I know what you're talking about. There CANNOT be two different truths. So...if we want to apply this here, re confession, then we have to do a study on WHO IS RIGHT.

    How would you explain away John 20:23?
    Jesus had authority as God. He GAVE and PASSED ON that authority to the Apostles. They could heal, remove demons, preach the word of God, baptize and FORGIVE SIN. It is plainly stated. In Mathew 10 Jesus sends out the disciples and annoints them with the same powers He had. In acts, some were healed by Peter, so the authority was passed on.

    Now, we'd have to get into church history and how confession evolved and changed over the centuries. I really wouldn't want to do this here since I'm not even Catholic but do know the doctrines they uphold.

    SO, HOW do we know for SURE, who is right? I agree that God forgives sin and that I do not need an intermediary. Hebrews makes that clear. But Catholics also have a very strong argument for confession.

    IN THIS CASE, or other cases like it, it is our heart condition and our honest belief in Jesus that will save us.

    Are you trying to tell me that every born again Catholic that goes to confession is going to end up lost???

    I sure hope this is not what you're trying to say because it is THE LORD who saves us, NOT DOCTRINE.

    Fran

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    Default Re: Catholicism

    Quote Originally Posted by PrynceNY View Post
    There is only one interceder between God and man which is Jesus Christ. The truth is no man is needed in that situation only Jesus. Not to mention many Catholic priest still teach false doctrines & perform pagan practices. If Catholics believe these priest are apostles of Christ ministry they are deceived & that includes the Pope.
    PrynceNY - I am simply going by what Christ told his apostles that I pointed out in scripture. As far as performing pagan practices, I'm pretty sure none of us own a particularly high horse, especially if we celebrate things like Christmas with christmas trees and easter with easter eggs, both pagan practices. I'm not saying people intend to practice such things, only that they are pagan in nature and have nothing to do with scripture.

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    Default Re: Catholicism

    Quote Originally Posted by Blain View Post
    umm I think saying God will judge you on what you know is way off, there is no condemnation in Christ.
    Alex you going to heaven is not based on confession to a priest the priest is a man and has not the power or authority to forgive sins only Christ has that. There are many things I don't like about the Catholic religion and that is one of them.
    Hi Blain. As a former Protestant, now Catholic, I must say with all do respect you are 180 degrees wrong about priests not having authority to forgive sins. ONLY priests, which includes bishops and all the way up to the Pope, have the authority to forgive sins but this is done through Jesus Christ. I am sorry you have been mislead by Protestant theology whose sole purpose is to undermine the one true Church. When you individually ask Jesus to forgive your sins you are doing nothing more than talking to yourself and convincing yourself you are forgiven. This is heresy. The fall of man broke the bond of God and man and we cannot achieve unity with God by ourselves. We must have a bridge and that bridge is none other than the Catholic Church (CC) through apostolic succession. No other denomination or "church" has that or ever will. Jesus gave Peter the keys to heaven thus the creation of the Catholic Church. That is a biblical fact and the Catholic Church is that manifestation. Of all the attacks on the CC, through Protestantism, non-denominationals, etc., the CC remains. I am sure you now want to point to the sexual scandals of the CC. Short answer, priests are not perfect and are subject to the same temptations as everyone else. Peter denied Jesus 3 times and Jesus gave him the keys to heaven!! I wish you the best and hope God brings you to the light. But be very careful how you aim your disdain. Take care.
    Last edited by chuck001; April 4th, 2017 at 04:44 PM. Reason: found error in response
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck001 View Post
    Hi Blain. As a former Protestant, now Catholic, I must say with all do respect you are 180 degrees wrong about priests not having authority to forgive sins. ONLY priests, which includes bishops and all the way up to the Pope, have the authority to forgive sins but this is done through Jesus Christ. I am sorry you have been mislead by Protestant theology whose sole purpose is to undermine the one true Church. When you individually ask Jesus to forgive your sins you are doing nothing more than talking to yourself and convincing yourself you are forgiven. This is heresy. The fall of man broke the bond of God and man and we cannot achieve unity with God by ourselves. We must have a bridge and that bridge is none other than the Catholic Church (CC) through apostolic succession. No other denomination or "church" has that or ever will. Jesus gave Peter the keys to heaven thus the creation of the Catholic Church. That is a biblical fact and the Catholic Church is that manifestation. Of all the attacks on the CC, through Protestantism, non-denominationals, etc., the CC remains. I am sure you now want to point to the sexual scandals of the CC. Short answer, priests are not perfect and are subject to the same temptations as everyone else. Peter denied Jesus 3 times and Jesus gave him the keys to heaven!! I wish you the best and hope God brings you to the light. But be very careful how you aim your disdain. Take care.
    There is no man on the face of this earth who has power/ authority to forgive sins. Any doctrines that states such things are false doctrines. Only God alone has the power to forgive sins. There is no need to go to any priest, bishops or popes, people are to go to christ directly themselves.

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    Default Re: Catholicism

    PrynceNY - With all do respect to you, you are 100% wrong. You assume a sense of authority in which you do not possess. Jesus gave us the Way due to our fallen nature. Yes, it is very true you do not have to be Catholic for salvation. So I must correct you in that priest are the only ones with that authority through apostolic succession which is directly derived from Christ.

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    Default Re: Catholicism

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck001 View Post
    PrynceNY - With all do respect to you, you are 100% wrong. You assume a sense of authority in which you do not possess. Jesus gave us the Way due to our fallen nature. Yes, it is very true you do not have to be Catholic for salvation. So I must correct you in that priest are the only ones with that authority through apostolic succession which is directly derived from Christ.
    Christ shares his authority to no one especially not fallen corrupt catholic priest. Get on your kness & call out to God. No one of the catholic church is needed. I'm sorry you have been condition by the catholic church doctrines. I will pray for you because many people who are in the catholic church are on the broad path to destruction unfortunately.

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    I used to do the things you are stating and my life only got worse over the years. After joining the Catholic Church, I have had a major turn around and KNOW I am closer to Jesus Christ than ever before. You clearly know nothing about the Catholic Church so I will sum up your view as "know not what they do".

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    Default Re: Catholicism

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck001 View Post
    PrynceNY - With all do respect to you, you are 100% wrong. You assume a sense of authority in which you do not possess. Jesus gave us the Way due to our fallen nature. Yes, it is very true you do not have to be Catholic for salvation. So I must correct you in that priest are the only ones with that authority through apostolic succession which is directly derived from Christ.
    Does John 20:23 mean that Catholic priests can forgive sins? No, it does not.

    "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained." (John 20:23).

    Context is king when interpreting
    scripture, and this is no exception. Let's take a look.

    "When therefore it was evening, on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 20 And when He had said this, He showed them both His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced when they saw the Lord. 21 Jesus therefore said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 “If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.” (
    John 20:19-23).

    The context of
    John 20:23 is that Jesus was speaking to the disciples (v. 19). He breathed on them to receive the Holy Spirit (v. 22). There is nothing in here about priests having the authority to forgive sins. There is nothing here (or anywhere else in the New Testament) about apostolic succession that says priests have the authority to forgive sins and that it is passed down. The Bible does mention appointing elders (Acts 14:23; Titus 1:5), and that the disciples of Jesus had special authority (Matt. 16:18). It speaks of the laying on of hands to receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:19) as well as ordaining men to the ministry (1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim. 1:6; Titus 1:5). At best, the laying on of hands deals with ordination--not apostolic authority being passed down. After all, they were ordaining elders and not apostles; and it was the apostles who were given the authority by Christ to do miracles and write scripture. Nothing is said here about apostolic authority being passed down.

    Have been forgiven

    In
    John 20:23 the words "have been forgiven" is the single Greek word aphiami. It is the perfect passive. The perfect tense is "I have been." The pluperfect is "I had been." The perfect tense designates an action that occurs in the past and continues into the present, i.e., "I have been eating." The disciples were not doing the forgiving but pronouncing the sins that "have been" forgiven by God. We find that the Psalmist says, "Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of Your name; and deliver us, and forgive our sins, for Your name’s sake." (Psalm 79:9). Also, consider the following:

    "Jesus seeing their faith *said to the paralytic, “My son, your sins are forgiven.” 6 But there were some of the scribes sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?” 8 And immediately Jesus, aware in His spirit that they were reasoning that way within themselves, *said to them, “Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts? 9 “Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven’; or to say, ‘Arise, and take up your pallet and walk’? 10 “But in order that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins”—He *said to the paralytic— 11 “I say to you, rise, take up your pallet and go home.” 12 And he rose and immediately took up the pallet and went out in the sight of all; so that they were all amazed and were glorifying God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this.” (
    Mark 2:5-12).

    Jesus forgave sins; and the Scribes, students of the Law, rightly stated that only God forgives sins. If they were wrong about that, then why didn't Jesus correct them? Instead, he affirms their claim, states he has the authority to forgive sins, and then heals the paralytic. It should be clear that only God forgives sins; and Christians, as representatives of Christ, pronounce to people what has already been forgiven them by God.

    So,
    John 20:23 is not saying that Catholic priests have the authority to forgive sins. It is saying that Christian disciples have the authority to pronounce what sins "have been forgiven."
    https://carm.org/john2023-priests-forgive-sins

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    Embrace the Grace and Rejoice in His Everlasting Mercy and Love

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    Default Re: Catholicism

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck001 View Post
    Hi Blain. As a former Protestant, now Catholic, I must say with all do respect you are 180 degrees wrong about priests not having authority to forgive sins. ONLY priests, which includes bishops and all the way up to the Pope, have the authority to forgive sins but this is done through Jesus Christ.
    "The authority to forgive sins" -- what a load of crap.

    God forgives, end of story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck001 View Post
    PrynceNY - With all do respect to you, you are 100% wrong. You assume a sense of authority in which you do not possess. Jesus gave us the Way due to our fallen nature. Yes, it is very true you do not have to be Catholic for salvation. So I must correct you in that priest are the only ones with that authority through apostolic succession which is directly derived from Christ.
    More Kool-Aid drivel.
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    Default Re: Catholicism

    God forgives, yes, through priests via apostolic succession derived from Jesus. end of story. know your history

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrynceNY View Post
    Christ shares his authority to no one especially not fallen corrupt catholic priest. Get on your kness & call out to God. No one of the catholic church is needed. I'm sorry you have been condition by the catholic church doctrines. I will pray for you because many people who are in the catholic church are on the broad path to destruction unfortunately.
    I wish I could give more than just one rep for this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck001 View Post
    I used to do the things you are stating and my life only got worse over the years. After joining the Catholic Church, I have had a major turn around and KNOW I am closer to Jesus Christ than ever before. You clearly know nothing about the Catholic Church so I will sum up your view as "know not what they do".
    You have been forewarned, once you stand before God you will have to give an account. You are no longer without excuse.

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    dude, you are a nobody with no authority to make these claims. you are walking directly with satan on your shoulders. its a shame..

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    Default Re: Catholicism

    Quote Originally Posted by chuck001 View Post
    PrynceNY - With all do respect to you, you are 100% wrong. You assume a sense of authority in which you do not possess. Jesus gave us the Way due to our fallen nature. Yes, it is very true you do not have to be Catholic for salvation. So I must correct you in that priest are the only ones with that authority through apostolic succession which is directly derived from Christ.

    Jesus is our high priest. The Old Testament priest is done away with since Jesus came. We don't need a mediator between God and man since Jesus came. He is our intercessor. We confess to Him not a man.


    Heb.4- 14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven,[a] Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin.16 Let us then approach God’s throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need.

    Every high priest is selected from among the people and is appointed to represent the people in matters related to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. 2 He is able to deal gently with those who are ignorant and are going astray, since he himself is subject to weakness. 3 This is why he has to offer sacrifices for his own sins, as well as for the sins of the people. 4 And no one takes this honor on himself, but he receives it when called by God, just as Aaron was.
    5 In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him,
    “You are my Son;
    today I have become your Father.”[b]


    6 And he says in another place,
    “You are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek.”[c]


    7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8 Sonthough he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.


    If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. 13 He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14 For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah,and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15 And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16 one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life.17 For it is declared:
    “You are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek.”[h]


    18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.20 And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21 but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
    “The Lord has sworn
    and will not change his mind:
    ‘You are a priest forever.’”[i]


    22 Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.
    23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely[j]those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
    26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28 For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.


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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck001 View Post
    God forgives, yes, through priests via apostolic succession derived from Jesus. end of story. know your history
    Through Jesus' shed blood. Stop with the Kool-Aid.

    There is one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity -- Christ Jesus.
    He gave his life to purchase freedom for everyone. 1 Timothy 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck001 View Post
    God forgives, yes, through priests via apostolic succession derived from Jesus. end of story. know your history
    Know your Savior.
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