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Thread: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

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    Senior Member laoshanlung's Avatar
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    Default What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    I don't know what translation this is (probably NIV), but it effectively reads the same as the KJV, so it's most likely just fine:

    Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not covet,' and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

    This is freaking brilliant, you guys. Unless I am completely misunderstanding this, the passage basically means that anything done out of an earnest love for one's fellow man is a lawful action in the eyes of God. Am I right about that?
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    yes, if we do this we are obeying the Law.
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    ...I have...mixed feelings about love actually. One one hand, I agree that it is quite amazing if it's the more pleasant side of it, however I have experienced its...less desirable side...and that's all I'll say about it.
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    It means do not just follow the rules, but WANT to follow them. Do no murder not just because God tells you to, but because you love everyone so much that you cannot bear to do it. That anything helping those out of love is good and anything not can be bad. It's basically just, follow your heart and do right.
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Quote Originally Posted by laoshanlung View Post
    I don't know what translation this is (probably NIV), but it effectively reads the same as the KJV, so it's most likely just fine:

    Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not covet,' and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

    This is freaking brilliant, you guys. Unless I am completely misunderstanding this, the passage basically means that anything done out of an earnest love for one's fellow man is a lawful action in the eyes of God. Am I right about that?

    But I have a doubting question. In today's world, the world itself has the power to disguise sin as a pretence of love. The more confusing part is when the word love is interpreted in various degrees (not according to Word)... I would say you're right still, because the true love follows the Word of God since God is love.
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    GaryA
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    yes, if we do this we are obeying the Law.
    Consider: 'fulfilling' the Law and 'obeying' the Law are two different things.

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    Senior Member Desertsrose's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Quote Originally Posted by laoshanlung View Post
    I don't know what translation this is (probably NIV), but it effectively reads the same as the KJV, so it's most likely just fine:

    Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not covet,' and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

    This is freaking brilliant, you guys. Unless I am completely misunderstanding this, the passage basically means that anything done out of an earnest love for one's fellow man is a lawful action in the eyes of God. Am I right about that?

    Hi Laoshanlung,

    Yes, amen! Love fulfills the law.

    We're not under the law anymore, we're under the Law of Christ. In another scripture it says if we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself, this fulfills all of the law and the prophets, for love does no harm to his neighbor.

    And the type of love is God's love. Not our own version of it. We can find God's love described in 1 Corinthians 13.

    Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
    Love never fails........

    Great OP!
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)
    One thing it means that many reject is... don't borrow money.

    The borrower is servant to the lender (Proverbs 22:7)

    Numerous places in scripture where God say borrowing money is not good and is bondage.

    He should be out Source, not some bank or lending company cause borrowing money can nd does frequently get people in to serious financial trouble and is not dealing wisely in the affairs of life...

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    Senior Member notmyown's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryA View Post
    Consider: 'fulfilling' the Law and 'obeying' the Law are two different things.
    oh, yes, they most certainly are.

    there was that One Man....

    i'm curious as to how you see they differ?

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    Senior Member notmyown's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Quote Originally Posted by Desertsrose View Post

    Hi Laoshanlung,

    Yes, amen! Love fulfills the law.

    We're not under the law anymore, we're under the Law of Christ. In another scripture it says if we love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself, this fulfills all of the law and the prophets, for love does no harm to his neighbor.

    And the type of love is God's love. Not our own version of it. We can find God's love described in 1 Corinthians 13.

    Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
    Love never fails........

    Great OP!

    DR, i'm sure you've heard this, but insert "God" everywhere it says "love"...

    comforting.

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    GaryA
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    oh, yes, they most certainly are.
    No, darlin' - they are not the same thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    there was that One Man....
    Not sure what this means.

    Due to the capital letters - I assume you may be referring to Jesus...?

    Are you referring to the idea that Jesus 'fulfilled' the Law?

    ( And, yes - He also 'obeyed' the Law up until His death on the cross. )


    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    i'm curious as to how you see they differ?
    I don't have time right now - but, perhaps later on - Lord willing - I will try to address it.
    Last edited by GaryA; June 5th, 2017 at 11:04 AM.

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    Senior Member notmyown's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryA View Post
    No, darlin' - they are not the same thing.



    Not sure what this means.

    Due to the capital letters - I assume you may be referring to Jesus...?

    Are you referring to the idea that Jesus 'fulfilled' the Law?

    ( And, yes - He also 'obeyed' the Law up until His death on the cross. )



    I don't have time right now - but, perhaps later on - Lord willing - I will try to address it.
    sorry, Gary, i was agreeing with you.

    it was poorly worded on my part. and indeed it was to the Lord Jesus i referred.

    you needn't explain if there are time constraints (and who doesn't have those?).
    i'd still be interested in hearing what you think, though.

    no more early morning posting for me, eh?

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    GaryA
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    yes, if we do this we are obeying the Law.
    Quote Originally Posted by GaryA View Post
    Consider: 'fulfilling' the Law and 'obeying' the Law are two different things.
    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    oh, yes, they most certainly are.

    there was that One Man....

    i'm curious as to how you see they differ?
    oh, yes, they most certainly are. ... two different things.

    Is that what you meant?

    hahaha

    ( I just now figured that out. )

    I read it before as though you were saying that they were absolutely-most-definitely the same. ( not different )

    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    sorry, Gary, i was agreeing with you.

    it was poorly worded on my part.

    .
    .
    .


    no more early morning posting for me, eh?
    Don't think you are the only one who has these moments...

    STILL -- you did use the word 'obeying' in that first post quoted above.

    That is what made me think you equated the two as being the same.

    Here --- let me fix it for you:

    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    yes, if we do this we are fulfilling the Law.
    It's all better now...

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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Quote Originally Posted by laoshanlung View Post
    I don't know what translation this is (probably NIV), but it effectively reads the same as the KJV, so it's most likely just fine:

    Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not covet,' and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

    This is freaking brilliant, you guys. Unless I am completely misunderstanding this, the passage basically means that anything done out of an earnest love for one's fellow man is a lawful action in the eyes of God. Am I right about that?

    Have a look at 1 Corinthians 13 as well, it describes what love is.

    Why does love fulfill the law.

    Well literally God is love. Jesus came that we can be reconciled to Himself,
    He paid the price for sin. The foundation of forgiveness is Love (God).

    In practical terms, you won't murder someone if you have experienced forgiveness
    and know of the love of God and want to demonstrate that love to others. You
    will know there is a better way to live, a better way to express anger, it is possible
    to forgive others just as God has forgiveness us.

    You won't commit adultery if you love others and treat them as you would want to
    be treated. If your identity is in Christ, you won't want to be party to false hope
    and false love. Any relationship you have will be based on true love with Christ at the centre.

    You won't want to steal as you know you have a great provider, in fact it will be the
    opposite, out of love you will want to bless others by giving to them.

    and so on.

    Its all based on your identity in Christ and how well you know that identity.
    It should come as natural as - say for example a lion eats meat because it's
    a lion. It doesn't eat apples because it thinks it's a horse!

    Work on knowing your identity in Christ, learn and lean on Him. That's not to say
    we don't get it wrong from time to time, we still need our rough edges knocking
    off! But with Christ as the foundation stone, we are on solid ground.
    He is God and
    we are not.

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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Quote Originally Posted by laoshanlung View Post
    I don't know what translation this is (probably NIV), but it effectively reads the same as the KJV, so it's most likely just fine:

    Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, 'Do not commit adultery,' 'Do not murder,' 'Do not steal,' 'Do not covet,' and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

    This is freaking brilliant, you guys.
    Unless I am completely misunderstanding this, the passage basically means that anything done out of an earnest love for one's fellow man is a lawful action in the eyes of God. Am I right about that?
    biblelearner123 likes this.
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    i'm curious as to how you see they differ?
    To help you understand the basis for what I am going to say, please read the following passages:


    Jeremiah 9:

    13 And the LORD saith, Because they have forsaken my law which I set before them, and have not obeyed my voice, neither walked therein;

    Jeremiah 32:

    23 And they came in, and possessed it; but they obeyed not thy voice, neither walked in thy law; they have done nothing of all that thou commandedst them to do: therefore thou hast caused all this evil to come upon them:

    Jeremiah 44:

    23 Because ye have burned incense, and because ye have sinned against the LORD, and have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, nor walked in his law, nor in his statutes, nor in his testimonies; therefore this evil is happened unto you, as at this day.

    Daniel 9:

    10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. 11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.


    Matthew 5:

    17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    Luke 24:

    44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

    John 15:

    25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

    Romans 2:

    25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    Romans 8:

    1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    Romans 13:

    8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

    Galatians 5:

    14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    James 2:

    8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:



    I believe that scripture describes for us two distinct 'aspects' of the Law of Moses:


    ~ The 'commandment' aspect of it - i.e. - the 'commandment' of the law.

    To 'answer' this aspect of it is to 'obey' it.

    Today - as a comparative construct - we "generically" refer to this idea as the 'letter' of the law.

    To 'obey' the Law of Moses is to "give an answer" to the 'commandment' of it - to perform the particular detailed specifics of the ordinances according to what is written in the law -- to do according to the 'letter' of the law.


    ~ The 'righteousness' aspect of it - i.e. - the 'righteousness' of the law.

    To 'answer' this aspect of it is to 'fulfil' it.

    Today - as a comparative construct - we "generically" refer to this idea as the 'spirit' of the law.

    To 'fulfil' the Law of Moses is to "give an answer" to the 'righteousness' of it - to perform the 'essence' of what the law is intended to teach us -- to do according to the 'spirit' of the law.


    The Law of Moses "demands an answer" - whether by 'commandment' or by 'righteousness'.


    The 'commandment' of the law is illustrated by a measure of the 'doing' ( following ) of its 'rules'.

    The 'righteousness' of the law is illustrated by a measure of the 'doing' ( following ) of the 'intent' / 'goal' of the law.

    ( For me -- this is where there is a 'technical' difference between 'obey' and 'fulfil'. )


    The "intended 'goal' of the law" is for us to live according to 'righteousness'.


    When the Bible says that we 'fulfil' the law by virtue of "love thy neighbour as thyself", it is illustrating for us that if we live by the 'spirit' of the law - we have thus "answered" the law ( according to 'righteousness' - the intended 'goal' of the law ) - without actually having lived according to the 'letter' of the law.


    Additionally, the idea which is "to 'fulfil' the law" contains a 'prophetic' component that "to 'obey' the law" does not.


    Does all of this make sense?
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Does "loving" mean 'acceptance' of someone's actions that don't really hurt another? (Yes, let's get real, and take it straight to homosexuality.)
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie-T View Post
    Does "loving" mean 'acceptance' of someone's actions that don't really hurt another? (Yes, let's get real, and take it straight to homosexuality.)
    In my opinion no it doesnt.
    Love is an active choice to out another person first. It isn't tolerating everything they do and stamping your approval to it. Sometimes the highest form of love is refusing to ignore a sin or fault that will destroy the person you love.
    That is true care and love....and often more painful that you'd think.
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Remember, the passage is written to the converted and cannot be accomplished by the world at large. Only those who are saved can fulfill this and this is to whom it is written.

    Many lost claim this as if they've fulfilled it or are fulfilling it, that is, as if they love others, and will therefore experience heaven by fulfilling this "law".
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    Senior Member posthuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: What do you guys make of this verse? (Romans 13:8-10)

    Quote Originally Posted by biblelearner123 View Post
    But I have a doubting question. In today's world, the world itself has the power to disguise sin as a pretence of love. The more confusing part is when the word love is interpreted in various degrees (not according to Word)... I would say you're right still, because the true love follows the Word of God since God is love.
    it's not uncommon to confuse real love for one another with love for ones own self. people covet, lust and even hate, and deceived, call it 'love' - but we know that the love of God is true, and that is this: not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for sin.

    Last edited by posthuman; July 18th, 2017 at 08:29 PM.
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