About done here...(please read in entirety)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Feb 9, 2011
171
3
0
#1
I just...I don't know. I was curious about this site but I don't think I can take much more of it. I don't believe in God and a lot of you are very sad to me. Not in a disrespectful way. A true saddening way. I can't believe you've allowed yourselves to be so corrupted by Christianity. Christianity has some good points in it's philosophy. Some good morals/etc... But to live your day-to-day lives by this fantasy... And that's not even the problem. Your hurting yourselves because of it. And I don't care about it if your older. But what I get upset about is that kid who is on here. Who is trying to find his or herself. That kid who just needs a little boost in his logic and reason and he would no longer be stuck in this. My Christian family made my life hell and very unpleasant for most my life until a couple years ago and I reached the age of reason. I started dabbling in philosophy and human psychology. And sociology. Most of you have just been Christian all of your lives and think that you HAVE to. Just because you were taught this your whole life does NOT make it true. Look into Nietzsche, LaVey, Darwin, Marquis De Sade, Hunter S. Thompson, George Carlin, and other brilliant minds. You may learn something.

It makes me sick to see some of these threads. Literally nausous. People hating on themselves for masturbating or looking at porn or forgetting to pray. People who are so obsessed with sin. That is not healthy. People who think you'll go to hell if you listen to certain types of music or watch certain films. People wondering if it's okay to re-marry.

Life is already hard enough without these little stupid problems. Enjoy your life. Any loving God would want that, unless he is a sadist. Or just doesnt care. But to say you will be tortured for all eternity, simply because of a disagreement?

What makes Christianity the "true" religion? Why not the Jews or Muslim or Buhdist or Wicca? Personally, I think it's all lies. Lies designed to control simple minded people and take their money. Religion is a billion dollar business. The Pope lives in the Vatican CITY. Giant mansions. Priceless artwork...but you need to give 10% to the church, and even more to the poor. I think it's sick that religion has done this to people. It's not normal or good. More murder and death was in the name of religion than for any other reason. Look at the Salem Witch Trials and The Crusades.

You would be locked in an insane asylum if you were talking and praying to a tree. But atleast you can see the tree. Talking to an invisible being that gives you absolutely NO signs of their existance? But I know a lot of people are superstitious and primitive enough to want to sort of "invent" Godly situations in their lives. Not unlike cold reading and psychics. If you look through your life you could pin point a moment where something beautiful happened...and blame that on God? Your inserting God and Satan into every day ordinary events.

I don't have the answers any more than anyone else. But I certainly and not going to just put my faith in something simply because there are currently no other scientific explanations. Christianity said the sun revolves around the earth. That was proven wrong. They said the earth was only 7000 years old. That is also very wrong.

I really despise what this religion has done to me. It made me afraid. Afraid to be human. Afraid to be happy. Afraid to live. I was a small child...maybe 3 years old. And I was terrified. "God can see every move I make and every thought I have...." I was losing my mind. I felt like I was going insane. Look at the world and tell me it's a loving God. Poverty, hunger, death, destruction....oh wait. I guess that's Satan.

Satan seems like a much more fun character to explore. Satan means "The Adversary". The one who rebelled.

I've found a great liking to LaVeyian Satanism. Here is an excerpt from one of his books.


[SIZE=+3]"THE seven deadly sins of the Christian Church are: greed, pride, envy, anger,
[SIZE=+3]gluttony, lust, and sloth. Satanism advocates indulging in each of these "sins" as they

[SIZE=+3]all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+3]A Satanist knows there is nothing wrong with being greedy, as it only means that he wants more than he already has. Envy means to look with favor upon the possessions of others, and to be desirous of obtaining similar things for oneself. Envy and greed are the motivating forces of ambition - and without ambition, very little of any importance would be accomplished. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+3]Gluttony is simply eating more than you need to keep yourself alive. When you have overeaten to the point of obesity, another sin - pride - will motivate you to regain an appearance that will renew your self-respect. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+3]Anyone who buys an article of clothing for a purpose other than covering his body and protecting it from the elements is guilty of pride. Satanists often encounter scoffers who maintain that labels are not necessary. It must be pointed out to these destroyers of labels that one or many articles they themselves are wearing are not wearing are not necessary to keep them warm. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+3]There is not a person on this earth who is completely devoid of ornamentation. The Satanist points out that any ornamentation of the scoffer's body shows that he, too, is guilty of pride. Regardless of how verbose the cynic may be in his intellectual description of how free he is, he is still wearing the elements of pride. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+3]Being reluctant to get up in the morning is to be guilty of sloth, and if you lie in bed long enough you may find yourself commiting yet another sin - lust. To have the faintest stirring of sexual desire is to be guilty of lust. In order to insure the propagation of humanity, nature made lust the second most powerful instinct, the first being self-preservation. Realizing this, the Christian Church made fornication the "Original Sin". In this way they made sure no one would escape sin. Your very state of being is as a result of sin - the Original sin! [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+3]The strongest instinct in every living thing is self-preservation, which brings us to the [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+3]last of the seven deadly sins - anger. Is it not our instinct for self-preservation that is aroused when someone harms us, when we become angry enough to protect ourselves from further attack? A Satanist practices the motto, "If a man smite thee on one cheek, smash him on the other!" Let no wrong go unredressed. Be as a lion in the path - be dangerous even in defeat! [/SIZE]

[SIZE=+3]Since man's natural instincts lead him to sin, all men are sinners; and all sinners go to hell. If everyone goes to hell, then you will meet all your friends there. Heaven must be populated with some rather strange creatures if they all lived for was to go to a place where they can strum harps for eternity."[/SIZE]


I just can't accept any religion. Not just Christianity. I can't stand any of them. It's all based on ancient folklore and controlling the masses. It doesnt seem very genuine. If you are only not commiting sins because "God" is watching...that's not true...That's like living a lie. I will respect anyone who truely WANTS to do everything the Bible says. I will really be happy with that and I will respect them. But people struggling to keep this faith that...it's not really their fault...it's just..They don't realize how their being taken advantage of. Again, I feel the worst for the young children that are entering this fairytale and accepting it as fact....not just well written stories to help people live better lives. Have any of you heard of Dionysus? He came before Jesus and certainly had a lot in common.

I don't expect you all to understand. I know some of you won't even bother giving it any thought. But I just feel bad for the meek minded, the naive, the gullible, and...the children. The children whose lives were ruined by religious superstition. Like me.

I'm much more happy now. I have no fear of heaven or hell. No sins to worry about. And I live a good, happy life. No one wants to go to hell. But I would not want to go to heaven either. It's seems like a boring place. None of my favourite music or film would be there. Because it's all sinful. Sinful and fun.

All I ask of anyone who is reading this...or rather, my advice to you:

Question EVERYTHING. Religion, politics, your teachers, your history books, your parents. Because humans are pretty dumb, actually. There are a lot of scams out there. Religion is one of them. Think for yourself. Don't believe everything your friends or family say. Figure out for yourself. Don't buy into the lies of haunted houses, psychics, ghosts, demons, unicorns, leprachuans, angels. Live for yourself. "Live" of course is "Evil" backwards. And one final quote I will leave you with:

"There is a beast in man that should be exercised, NOT exorcised".

I'll still be around for awhile. But the end is nigh.
[/SIZE][/SIZE]
 
Last edited:
P

Peter321

Guest
#2
I do not agree.
 
Jan 18, 2011
1,117
5
0
#3
1 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork. (Psalm 19:1)

10 "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. (Proverbs 9:10)

47 He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God." (John 8:47)

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18)

For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (1 Corinthians 1:21)

Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. (1 Corinthians 1:25)

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Corinthians 2:14)

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness"; (1 Corinthians 3:19)

8 "For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways," says the Lord. 9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8-9)

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; (Proverbs 3:5)

17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, 18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; (Ephesians 4:17-18)

36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (John 3:36)

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)

10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. (1 John 5:10)

12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account. (Hebrews 4:12-13)

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "The just shall live by faith." 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them. (Romans 1:16-32)
 
D

DanuckInUSA

Guest
#4
Your heart has not been changed for Christ. I pray one day that it will but until that day I will love as a non-believer
 
L

lightbliss

Guest
#5
I know that you probably won't read this but whatever...

A true saddening way. I can't believe you've allowed yourselves to be so corrupted by Christianity.
Christians or not, people tend to be overzealous sometimes.

Christianity has some good points in it's philosophy. Some good morals/etc... But to live your day-to-day lives by this fantasy...
And it's only a 'fantasy" because you don't believe in it, right?

And that's not even the problem. Your hurting yourselves because of it.
Please tell me how I'm hurting myself because I don't see it.

But what I get upset about is that kid who is on here. Who is trying to find his or herself. That kid who just needs a little boost in his logic and reason and he would no longer be stuck in this.
If this "kid" needs a boost in logic, it isn't wrong to search for answers. This is a Christian website, where we offer advice, wisdom, and support. If someone were trying to "get out" of Christianity, I don't understand why they'd look here...

My Christian family made my life hell and very unpleasant for most my life until a couple years ago and I reached the age of reason. I started dabbling in philosophy and human psychology. And sociology. Most of you have just been Christian all of your lives and think that you HAVE to. Just because you were taught this your whole life does NOT make it true. Look into Nietzsche, LaVey, Darwin, Marquis De Sade, Hunter S. Thompson, George Carlin, and other brilliant minds. You may learn something.
I've taken a few courses in psychology and I'm a fan of philosophy. I know of those you've stated, learned about them, read some of their stuff. I think it's great that even when someone has read of these "brilliant minds," they know enough about life to be able to discern between the truth. And still they choose Christ.


I was raised in Christian home and I'm a Christian now but I know that I HAVE to be one. I'm a Christian because I want to be. After a certain age, I took interest in these things, no one forced me.

It makes me sick to see some of these threads. Literally nausous. People hating on themselves for masturbating or looking at porn or forgetting to pray. People who are so obsessed with sin. That is not healthy. People who think you'll go to hell if you listen to certain types of music or watch certain films. People wondering if it's okay to re-marry.
As I stated before, this is a Christian website, where we offer advice, wisdom, and support. With most things, the answer is just a few flips into the Bible. And it's not that they're "obsessed with sin," what's wrong with wanting to know about such things?


Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
 
 
Last edited:
L

lightbliss

Guest
#6
Part 2

Life is already hard enough without these little stupid problems. Enjoy your life. Any loving God would want that, unless he is a sadist. Or just doesnt care. But to say you will be tortured for all eternity, simply because of a disagreement?
No one said that we couldn't enjoy our lives. There are certain things that we
 
L

lightbliss

Guest
#7
.................................
 
L

lightbliss

Guest
#8

I'll try again later :|
 
L

lightbliss

Guest
#9
Okay, I've literally tried to post this about 7 times now, so now I'll put in my answers without direct quotation. I address the OP's post in order, so based on what I've stated, you'll probably know what I'm referring to.


No one said we couldn't enjoy our lives. There are certain things that we’re told not to do for specific reasons; for the consequences. Christians may have doctrinal differences but that doesn't mean that the "wrong ones" will go to Hell.
John 3:16

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
____
(On whether Christianity is the "true religion") Good question. Some would state that since they grew up in Christian homes, they’re more inclined to be Christians but what about those who didn’t grow up in Christian homes or, perhaps, were atheists?

And again, this is a Christian site.
____
Okay, let’s get one thing straight. Christianity is more than a religion with rules, books and conferences. It’s about having a personal relationship with God/Christ. I’ve noticed that people who truly don’t “get” Christianity don’t understand this point.

And yes, “religion” makes people do crazy things because we obviously have no control over what we do. If people actually read the Bible, they’d see that such things are directly advised against.
____
I find it weird that when trying to disprove God, some people always bring science into the equation.

I don’t know about you but I don’t view God as my invisible friend. This thing called Christianity is largely based on faith. I can say that I’ve felt God on many occasions.

Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
____
Again, it’s about faith.

(On the sun) No, actually Christianity didn’t state that. People did.
____
Okay, Christianity is representative of Christ. So my question to you is, was it really “Christianity” or those that stated that they followed it? Since you stated that your family life was hard, I can’t say your suffering was because of Christ. It sucks that we tend to base concepts on those that have seemly falsified it by how they live.
____
So you’re a Satanist? Or do you simply agree with this?

Actually the Bible never states these things as the seven deadly sins. The Bible states that the seven abominations are as follows:

Proverbs 6:16-19
These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him: A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.
____
You know, there are people in the Middle East that are killed because they follow Christ. I doubt they’d truly commit if it weren’t real, especially knowing that they’d be killed for what they believe.

The Bible isn’t to deceive, it’s to encourage, inspire, and inform.
____
Young children, if you’re referring to those on this site, then they’re at the age where they can understand things for themselves.

Dionysus? So he’s the son of a higher “god.” And they were both accused of stating their divinity? Dionysus is a myth. If you’ve actually read the Bible, you'd understand that they don't have much in common.
____
You know, not all people have had bad experiences with “religion” nor were their lives ruined by it. It depends on how you see it and whether you base it on those around you or on the actual text that the religion is based on.
____
Christians don’t fear Hell because Christ paid the price for our sins; we won’t be going there.

What’s your definition of “a good, happy life”? Being a good natured person? Or living however you see fit as long as you don’t harm anyone?

I seriously doubt Hell takes music and film requests. You may think Heaven is “a boring place” but I think that based on your post, you haven’t fully comprehended all the bases of Christianity, God, Christ, and the Bible.
____
1 John 4:1-6
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
 
 
C

Credo_ut_Intelligam

Guest
#10
a lot of you are very sad to me. Not in a disrespectful way. A true saddening way.
It's not clear that your "true saddening" is not at the same time disrespectful. For example, I could say to an atheist "Man you people are so incredibly dumb and I feel so sorry for you. Not disrespectfully, but truly."

That looks like double speak to me. And your own statement looks like double speak when you say:

We live our daily lives by a fantasy, most of us are Christian only because we were raised that way and accepted it uncritically, our conversations make you nauseous and our struggles are "stupid little problems," our beliefs are designed to control simple minded people (which implies we are simple minded people being controlled), our beliefs are crazier than beliefs that would get us locked in an insane asylum, lots of us are just superstitious and primitive, we are naive and gullible, and our religion is a scam.

Amazingly, you go on this long harangue and yet you don't present a single rational argument for any of your claims. You give no reason for us to disbelieve in God, you give no reason for us to believe that our problems are "stupid" and "little", you give no reason to believe we are simple minded, gullible, or being controlled, and you give us no reason to think any of our beliefs are a fantasy.

So what are you trying to accomplish with the harangue? You end it by telling us to question everything, but apparently you don't think it will occur to us that "Gee, she didn't give us any *reason* to believe her harangue. All she did was emote and insult." Surely you don't think anyone will read this stuff and go "She asserted our beliefs are a fairy-tail without giving any reasons whatsoever... She must be right so I'm going to give up Christianity!"

You ask us to question everything. So here are some questions I have for you:

What's the basis for your moral grandstanding? In your worldview, what determines right and wrong in a objective way that allows you to criticize our moral beliefs about things like pornography, masturbation, and re-marriage?

How do you know that we have received no signs of God's existence?

You say:
But I certainly and not going to just put my faith in something simply because there are currently no other scientific explanations.
What exactly does this mean?

Now let me address two of your statements directly:

Christianity said the sun revolves around the earth. That was proven wrong. They said the earth was only 7000 years old. That is also very wrong.
You need to distinguish what Christians claim from what Christianity, as such, teaches. There is nothing essential to Christianity that requires us to believe the earth is 7,000 years old or that the sun revolves around the earth. So if the sun doesn't revolve around the earth or the earth isn't 7,000 years old that doesn't disprove Christianity.

I'm much more happy now. I have no fear of heaven or hell. No sins to worry about. And I live a good, happy life. No one wants to go to hell. But I would not want to go to heaven either. It's seems like a boring place. None of my favourite music or film would be there. Because it's all sinful. Sinful and fun.
So I could turn the tables on you and psychologize your atheism: you believe there is no heaven or hell because you are weak minded and you need to comfort yourself. The idea that you will be held accountable for your sins or that you need to live up to a moral standard is just to hard for you to accept. So you make up your own fairy tale: all this came from nothing, morality came from a non-moral universe, personhood came from impersonal substances, order came from disorder, and so on...

You don't disbelieve in God because you have any evidence, but because in believing a lie you get to have more fun and be comfortable. So you've chosen the easy route.

But the jokes on you in the end. You've given up Christianity for an atheist worldview where there is no meaning to life, there is no morality, there is no significance to our consciousness and, as the atheist philosopher of science Alex Rosenberg admits, all of life is "just the foresightless play of fermions and bosons producing, in us conspiracy-theorists, the illusion of purpose."

He goes on to say "One source of meaning on which many have relied is the intrinsic value, in particular the moral value, of human life. People have also sought moral rules, codes, principles which are supposed to distinguish us from merely biological critters whose lives lack (as much) meaning or value (as ours). Besides morality as a source of meaning, value, or purpose, people have looked to consciousness, introspection, self-knowledge as a source of insight into what makes us more than the merely physical facts about us. Scientism must reject all of these straws that people have grasped, and it’s not hard to show why. Science has to be nihilistic about ethics and morality" (This is all from his article "The Disenchanted Naturalist's Guide to Reality.")

So from where I'm standing, it looks a bit odd for you to tell us that you feel sorry for us when believe that humans are a special creation of God who loves us and who has endowed us with intrinsic value and purpose in the universe that we can fulfill and has established objective categories of right and wrong and, therefore, good and bad and beautiful and ugly. This looks a bit odd when your standing on a foundation that says you have no more value than a cock roach, morality and purpose is an illusion, and all that we see and all that we are is product of blind chance and the laws of physics.

Now, perhaps you don't think atheism entails any of this, but this would put you at odds with some of the smartest minds who share your atheism (I could quote a lot more atheists who agree with Rosenberg here, in fact one of the atheists you recommend we read, Nietzsche, agreed that morality was a convention of society). So if you want to say that you can have something like intrinsic value or objective morality with your atheism, you'll need to give a pretty good argument.
 
Last edited:
Feb 9, 2011
171
3
0
#11
I'm sorry I havnt had time to respond to what you guys wrote but I'll try my best to respond to everything. Thanks for you time and your thoughts. I really enjoyed reading all of it, honestly.



I know that you probably won't read this but whatever...
I'll most certainly read everything everyone wrote! After all, this is a thread I created. I wouldnt have created it if I wasnt interested in seeing other opinions. Also, I will believe that you took the time to read everything I typed out, it is only fair that I do the same!


Christians or not, people tend to be overzealous sometimes.
True.


And it's only a 'fantasy" because you don't believe in it, right?
How to answer this.... Yes and No. There is no short answer here. I suppose one could agree with your statement. There is certainly a mixed bag of "evidence", some proving, some disproving. I guess "evidence" is too strong of a word to use. I know that science has proving certain things in the Bible accurate. That is a fact. Like certain ancient cities and things that were long thought not to exist. At the same time, what makes it not a fantasy? Someone once said, "For the skeptics, no proof is ever enough, and for the believers, no proof is necessary."
It's not too irrational of a thought to have "blind faith" in anything. Would you have blind faith that your accountant won't rip you off? In the 80s, there were a lot of faith healers that had tv shows. A lot of people put their good trust (and money) into it. Then, the lid was blown off the whole thing. It was all an act. Magic show. How is religion NOT a fantasy? Concepts of spirits and angels and demons and heavens seem very Lord of the Rings esque to me....Why would someone really believe in it? There are plenty of religions. Each religions thinks they are the right one. I'm sure Muslims think Christians are wrong, and Christians think Muslims are wrong....What if they were both devastingly wrong? Could they all be right? No way. Although there are some similarities, there are too many drastic differences.... Not sure what more you want me to say here...It's just obvious to me. But of course, I could be wrong.



Please tell me how I'm hurting myself because I don't see it.
Of course you wouldnt see it. That's exactly what I was getting act. And I'm not even talking about YOU particularly, but in a general sense, people are brain washed enough to a point where they certainly would not see it. What do you think a cult is? A lot of people have died for a lot of religions. And I'm sure in most of the cases, they thought they were completely right. Otherwise why would they do it? (lest they were unwilling...dont believe every story your hear. Things can be fabricated for the sake of the point or message."


If this "kid" needs a boost in logic, it isn't wrong to search for answers. This is a Christian website, where we offer advice, wisdom, and support. If someone were trying to "get out" of Christianity, I don't understand why they'd look here...
Very true. Yes there would be logic, advice, wisdom, etc.. from a Christian point of view here. I'm not talking about a kid trying to get out of it. I don't even think it would occur to them that they could get out of it, let alone contemplate it in the first place. I think people are basically stupid. Most kid's will remain what they were raised. Now days in the U.S., there is a church on every block. Christian schools. Sunday School. T.V. advertisements. T.V. sermons. Christian radio. It's everywhere. People are very willing to believe what they are told, especially if told by a loved one. No one is lying. They are just not properly informed and are accidentally spreading lies. I'd like to make alternative idea's more accessible for people, particularly people struggling with their faith. I want to show them they have other options. Whether you think so or not, a lot of people have no idea what else is out there. They are not properly educated. They only know what they are taught and they not only Dont wish to educate themselves, they fear it. Again with the mention of Satanism, a lot of people are afraid of it by it's very name. They think it's devil worship and baby sacrifices and torture and crazy stuff. That's the image the media likes to tell us. We are all under the control of the people in power whether you want to think it or not. There is no such thing as freedom. But I don't want to get into politics.


I've taken a few courses in psychology and I'm a fan of philosophy. I know of those you've stated, learned about them, read some of their stuff. I think it's great that even when someone has read of these "brilliant minds," they know enough about life to be able to discern between the truth. And still they choose Christ.
Know enough about life? It cannot be argued that Christianity (among other faiths) are against human nature and logic. Again, the idea of BLIND FAITH immediately strays from logic and reason. You cannot prove there is no Santa Claus. You could go to the North Pole. You could have a search team look for days. You won't find anything, but the believer could easily just say, "well, you didnt look in the right places, or, it's invisible to the non believer. You can't find it if you wanted to....unless you have faith and are delusional"

I was raised in Christian home and I'm a Christian now but I know that I HAVE to be one. I'm a Christian because I want to be. After a certain age, I took interest in these things, no one forced me.
You don't HAVE to be anything...Of course it is personal choice. If you are a genuine case, I applaud you. I, on the other hand, went to Catholic school for 10 years and they taught us these mindless words in the form of prayers. We didnt even know what we were saying. We were just rehearsed over and over. They beat it into us. Do you know about the process of brainwashing? Most people do indeed think they have to and it never occurred to them (or they were brainwashed to think other ideas were heresy)


As I stated before, this is a Christian website, where we offer advice, wisdom, and support. With most things, the answer is just a few flips into the Bible. And it's not that they're "obsessed with sin," what's wrong with wanting to know about such things?
I applaud anyone who want's to know anything. In this day and age, where everything is spoon fed to people. I admire anyone who seeks knowledge. But of course some are obsessed with it. Even I was. It became like anxiety for me. I had OCD if I didnt pray. The priest had us doing the rosary 5 times.... Everyone to an extent is obsessed with it. Wouldnt they be? This is kind of a serious thing. I mean, anything that preaches an eternity of torment and hell is serious, I would say. No one wants to go to hell. And flipping through these threads, I don't see people commonly interested in sin. I see sick obsession. Again, people forbidding themselves from all sorts of carnal pleasure (and stress relief), not wanting to marry a divorcee, not allowing themselves to see certain movies/listen to certain music...Some people won't allow themselves to look into other religions for fear that that would be sinful. I see people that can't even take it. Their not happy and stress free. They seem miserable...but tricked into thinking they are happy. One young girl made a thread about being tempted to be in a relationship with another girl. I felt so bad for her. It's so frusterating to deprive yourself of what you want. There is nothing wrong with desire. She's not hurting anyone. Someone else had an away message that didnt even want to talk to males if they were married, thinking that "of course their reasons for IMing would be sexual" What's wrong with this picture? Can't people even talk to the opposite sex anymore? Who cares if their married. Can't you have friends. Anyway, my point being that people are WAAAAY too hard on themselves and need to relax a little bit. I know I was. I drove myself crazy thinking about Hell. I had nightmares about the Antichrist. I wasnt at peace at all, even if I thought I was at the time.

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
 
"Are you God-fearing"? I was asked as a child. "Of course not", I thought. "Why would you fear the Lord? Isn't he a nice guy? Loving? Peacefully?" I was ridiculed for not fearing Him. But I didnt know why you would fear Him. Isnt He supposed to be your friend? I don't fear my friends. I consider them my equals. Like-minded happy friends who get along. Something is terribly wrong if you are afraid of your friends. They told me to pray and talk to God. I'm not going to talk to someone whom I'm afraid of. I'd shy away from it at any cost.
 
Feb 9, 2011
171
3
0
#12
Wow, my responses there looks like it's part of the quote....you can figure it out though lol Sorry about that.
 
Feb 9, 2011
171
3
0
#13
Okay, I've literally tried to post this about 7 times now, so now I'll put in my answers without direct quotation. I address the OP's post in order, so based on what I've stated, you'll probably know what I'm referring to.


No one said we couldn't enjoy our lives. There are certain things that we
 
C

Credo_ut_Intelligam

Guest
#14
what makes it not a fantasy? ... How is religion NOT a fantasy?
This is an odd question if you think about it. What makes something "not a fantasy" is the fact that it is true. Consider that you believe atheism is true. Well, I might ask you "How is atheism NOT a fantasy?" Well if atheism is true, then it's trueness is what makes it not a fantasy and if Christianity is true then this same fact makes it not a fantasy... unless you have some other odd definition of "fantasy."

The simple answer to your question then is that the fact that it is true is what makes it not a fantasy.

Concepts of spirits and angels and demons and heavens seem very Lord of the Rings esque to me....
Maybe that's because the Lord of the Rings is borrowing from the religious worldview. In fact, this is exactly what Tolkien, who wrote the Lord of the Rings, was doing since he was a Christian! So the fact that it seems like Lord of the Rings doesn't itself prove that it is absurd or untrue.

Consider that I could write a dystopian fiction novel borrowing concepts from atheism. Would some Christian then be able to point to the fiction novel and then say "Look, atheism seems like this fiction novel... So atheism looks like a bunch of fiction to me!"

Why would someone really believe in it?
Quite simply because it strikes them as true. Or because the truth of God revealed itself to them when they read Scripture or heard the gospel. Or because they found it more reasonable than disbelieving in God, as, for example, the atheist Holly Ordway came to believe in God or the atheist Anthony Flew came to believe in God.

There are plenty of religions. Each religions thinks they are the right one. I'm sure Muslims think Christians are wrong, and Christians think Muslims are wrong....What if they were both devastingly wrong? Could they all be right? No way. Although there are some similarities, there are too many drastic differences.... Not sure what more you want me to say here...It's just obvious to me. But of course, I could be wrong.
The fact that there are many different claims as to what is true is utterly irrelevant. It has no significance and it doesn't take away from the credibility of Christianity. There are not just many different religious claims, but many different truth claims in every single field of inquiry (science, ethics, metaphysics, epistemology, aesthetics, and even mathematics!).

What it comes down to is that people disagree. And at most this demonstrates that not all persons are perfectly situated to grasp the truth. But it doesn't tell us that there is no truth to any claim and it doesn't even tell us why people disagree.

It may be in some cases that people disagree because the evidence is underdetermined. For instance, imagine that I tell you that I went to the grocery store and bought $10 worth of pop. Now let us say that Pepsi and Coke are the only two kinds of pop in existence. You also happen to know the cost of Pepsi and the cost of Coke respectively. Given this information, you have enough evidence to (perhaps) say that I may have bought 4 liters of Coke and 2 liters of Pepsi. You also know that I could have bought 6 liters of Coke and no Pepsi. But you also know that I could not have possibly bought 24 liters of Coke and 100 liters of Pepsi because, given what you know, that would work out to more than $10. So, the evidence is underdetermined. It rules out somethings but has room for others.

It may also be the case that people disagree over a truth claim because of bias, prejudice, or self-deception, or some deficiency in cognitive faculties.

The point is, no significant conclusion follows from the fact that there are many different religions. Indeed, whatever conclusion you think follows from this fact must pertain to all truth claims since there are many different truth claims and not just many different religions.

people are brain washed enough to a point where they certainly would not see it. What do you think a cult is? A lot of people have died for a lot of religions. And I'm sure in most of the cases, they thought they were completely right. Otherwise why would they do it? (lest they were unwilling...dont believe every story your hear. Things can be fabricated for the sake of the point or message.
Like last time, you assert that people are brainwashed. But you give us no argument that demonstrates this. You simply assert it. So why should anyone take the claim seriously, especially if they don't have any reason to think they are brainwashed?

Sure you wouldn't just take my word for it if I told you that *you* were brainwashed.

I think people are basically stupid. Most kid's will remain what they were raised. Now days in the U.S., there is a church on every block. Christian schools. Sunday School. T.V. advertisements. T.V. sermons. Christian radio. It's everywhere. People are very willing to believe what they are told, especially if told by a loved one. No one is lying. They are just not properly informed and are accidentally spreading lies.
This sword cuts both ways. If people in general are basically stupid, then so are atheist people. And all that you say about people just believing what they are told applies equally to atheists. In the past 10 years or so, I've talked to a lot of atheists. My observation is that they are about just as ignorant as your average Christian as to why they have their set of beliefs. Atheists tend to have their stock objections to Christianity that they've never tested and Christians tend to have their stock objections to atheism that they've never tested.

That's just the way it is. There isn't *necessarily* anything wrong with that. 90% or more of the population is occupied with a career that has nothing to do with developing critical thinking skills and, on top of it, they are also occupied with maintaining a family and other relationships. This doesn't make them "stupid". It just means that not everyone is a logician just like not everyone is a scientist or a lawyer or a cashier.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with believing something because someone who you think is credible told you so. That's the way we all operate. That's the way you operate too, whether you realize it or not. With some probing I guarantee that I would discover that the vast majority of your beliefs were not formed by you going out and discovering the way things are for yourself or by you sitting in your armchair and philosophizing from scratch. I could guarantee that the vast majority of your beliefs were acquired from other people who told you so.

I'd like to make alternative idea's more accessible for people, particularly people struggling with their faith.
No, you wouldn't. It's not that you want people to have access to alternative ideas as such. It's that you want people to have access to ideas you think are true over against ideas you think are false. Surely you don't think that there is any advantage to people seriously entertaining ideas simply by virtue of the fact that they are *alternative* ideas. Otherwise, you would be here promoting things like racism, sexism, and marxim in addition to atheism.

Whether you think so or not, a lot of people have no idea what else is out there. They are not properly educated.
If being "properly educated" means knowing all the ideas that are out there then I suppose you think that no one is properly educated until they have studied "Creation Science" or Astrology or Homeopathy or any one of the almost innumerable things that are out there.

My point being, if knowing all the alternatives constitutes an education, then not only is no one educated (including yourself) but no one could ever possible be educated since no one lives long enough to hear all the alternatives that have ever been offered.

All this talk about wanting people to have alternatives and education and whatnot is just rhetoric that rings empty when we test it.

We are all under the control of the people in power whether you want to think it or not. There is no such thing as freedom.
Which undermines your own set of beliefs if it undermines anything.

Again, the idea of BLIND FAITH immediately strays from logic and reason.
"Blind faith" is just a slogan. There is no official teaching in Christianity that supports "blind faith." Atheists can have just as much blind faith as a theist. Crusading against "blind faith" won't in itself allow you to topple Christianity since the two things have no necessary relationship.

You cannot prove there is no Santa Claus. You could go to the North Pole. You could have a search team look for days. You won't find anything, but the believer could easily just say, "well, you didnt look in the right places, or, it's invisible to the non believer. You can't find it if you wanted to....unless you have faith and are delusional"
The fact that you may not be able to disprove Santa Clause or the existence of God or any other number of things is no proof against Santa Clause or the existence of God or any other claim. If you study philosophy of science you'll see that it can be very difficult to disprove any type of claim, including scientific claims. Logical positivism died off due to the internal incoherence of verificationism. Popper tried to replace it with falsificationism. But it's widely accepted that falsificationism isn't as straightforward as Popper thought, which is why few philosophers of science hold to falsificationism anymore.

If I say "I believe in God" and someone says to me "Yeah, well I can't disprove God!" that isn't a weakness in my belief... if anything, it's a weakness in the other person who wishes he could! By the way, lots of atheists have thought that they *can* disprove the existence of God or at least the Christian God.

We didnt even know what we were saying. We were just rehearsed over and over. They beat it into us. Do you know about the process of brainwashing? Most people do indeed think they have to and it never occurred to them (or they were brainwashed to think other ideas were heresy)
This isn't sufficient to demonstrate that brainwashing occurred. This is simply the way most education works. For instance, when a 2 year old learns his ABC's, he usually has no comprehension of the significance of the alphabet. But educators still make them repeat the ABC song over and over. Are they "brainwashing" the child? Hardly. We could find many other examples.

I see sick obsession. Again, people forbidding themselves from all sorts of carnal pleasure (and stress relief), not wanting to marry a divorcee, not allowing themselves to see certain movies/listen to certain music...Some people won't allow themselves to look into other religions for fear that that would be sinful. I see people that can't even take it. Their not happy and stress free.
As I pointed out last time, all of this begs the question. You simply assume that it is permissible to see certain movies and listen to certain music and marry a divorcee, then you critique us from that *assumption*. But in logic we call this the fallacy of *begging the question*. You "beg the question" when you assume what needs to be proved.

First you need to give us an *argument* (premises leading to a conclusion) that these things are not impermissible and that people *should not* be stressed about things things *because* there is nothing wrong with them. Then you can give us your conclusion: we are sick and obsessed and we should not be.

Unfortunately, you want to jump straight to the conclusion without giving the argument. Earlier, I said that I've talked to a lot of atheists and that it seems like they are about just as ignorant as your average Christian as to why they have their set of beliefs. The fact that you beg the question so much indicates that you are just like the Christians you are critiquing. You have adopted an atheist set of beliefs, but you haven't yet worked out very well *why* you have that set of beliefs over Christians beliefs. Otherwise, there would be no need for you to beg the question as you do. You could go straight for argumentation (rational demonstration).

There is nothing wrong with desire. She's not hurting anyone.
Another example of you begging the question. Which could be another indication that you fall into the same category of "unreflective person" that you are criticizing Christians of being.

"Are you God-fearing"? I was asked as a child. "Of course not", I thought. "Why would you fear the Lord? Isn't he a nice guy? Loving? Peacefully?" I was ridiculed for not fearing Him. But I didnt know why you would fear Him. Isnt He supposed to be your friend? I don't fear my friends. I consider them my equals. Like-minded happy friends who get along. Something is terribly wrong if you are afraid of your friends. They told me to pray and talk to God. I'm not going to talk to someone whom I'm afraid of. I'd shy away from it at any cost.
God is loving and merciful, he is also holy and just. Your relationship with God is more like your relationship to a parent then one of your buddies. You can fear the authority of a parent that will discipline you if you step out of line, but at the same time love the parent and recognize the parent's love for you. So there is no tension between being "God-fearing" and him being loving and peaceful.
 
I

imakingskid

Guest
#15
i will pray for you, that you too, will find christ, turn to Him and be saved
 
B

BellaFlor

Guest
#16
I guess I am more of the opposite of what you have been most of your life. I was raised in an non-beleiving family, I heard about God when I was very very young, and I chose to walking in that path of faith. I discovered most about God through reading in the bible, and praying/talking to God. I didn't go to church in many years whilst being a child and teenager, partly because of my family not being interesed to let me go there most sundays or so. I didn't had any friends where I grew up, or not any true and good friends. Or at least they weren't living close to me, I did had some friendships through snail mails. I did started going to church when I moved out on my own, then I was free to choose for myself.

I have been growing a lot stronger, also in my faith, through both my years whilst living with my parents and when I moved out. Everything been my own choice, and I have seen much happening through God. When you have experienced a lot that has with God to do, been blessed, found answers in the bible, understood more 'cause of God opening up your mind etc, then all in all it is very difficult to letting go off with your faith in God. :)
 
Last edited:
K

karine___

Guest
#17
Jesus Christ is the ONLY way Michelle, every other way leads to destruction ,though it may seem appealing at first , sooner or later, after the enemy has played with you enough he will make you miserable to the point of despair that's when you'll come to the realisation that what you've believed was all a big lie. Then i truly hope you will turn to Christ but that's the hard way...
you're still so young, don't waste your young years going opposite the Truth, there's true life waiting for you, don't allow the destroyer to play with your thoughts.
 
T

TheJesusFreak

Guest
#18
I will pray for you. But sorry I probably wont look at this thread again. But what they said is true.
What you did is just as discrespectful as us going on an atheist or some other sight and saying
"Wow I feel really bad for you. You people are so stupid and blind"
Get the picture?
 
Jun 20, 2010
401
1
0
35
#19
I will pray for you. But sorry I probably wont look at this thread again. But what they said is true.
What you did is just as discrespectful as us going on an atheist or some other sight and saying
"Wow I feel really bad for you. You people are so stupid and blind"
Get the picture?
I guess this late in the thread will probably look odd; I am agreeing with Jesusfreak here.
I have to set some sort of precedent to prevent my demographic being constricted further too, hence my quick pm a few days ago.
Not that I am against the right of people to offend, I regularly see what i could construe as offensive, but one has to ask whats necessary.
 
V

Vinifera

Guest
#20
Hi Michelle,

Just want to hug you.

Vinifera