Destined For Destruction..

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Tobby17

Guest
#1
#1
I've been thinking, the antichrists is supposed to be somebody who is born that way right?. Somebody whom God ordained to be the antichrist. Even if it is against his will?. Some people will argue that the antichrist has a choice to make and can decide not to be the antichrist?. But if that is the case with all of them, and they all decide not to choose this path, then there will be no antichrist and the world will never come to and end. And God will end up been a liar. In order for God not to be a liar, that means somebody has to be the antichrist, even if it is against his will, because he will be created with this desire.
Bible says the antichrist is a man that is destined for destruction right?. So God created him just so he can be destroyed. Why will God do such a thing?. I mean God makes his own creation for destruction just so that the scriptures can be fufilled, Just like it was the case with Pharaoh, or the case with Homosexuals the day they were made that way.
Really, i find the whole concept very difficult to believe, and i think Atheism will make a little more sense. No insults meant. That's one of the reason i don't come on CC again. because i just find it difficult to believe how God can make these decisions.

Maybe it's just better off not being a Christian
 
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godovermoney

Guest
#2
#2
ok first of all friend plz keep the faith. jesus is our lord and savior that is a fact. and if you analyze both sides,yah maybe god's will is confusing but what atheists believe dosnt make any sense at all and is impossible. now to your question . the only thing that i came up with is you have to think of the order in which god did these things . think about it yah he knows what exactly is gonna happen, yet that doesnt mean we dont get to choose(free will) you see he created us , then gave us free will , then looked to the future to see what would happen. so i guess what im trying to say is that he let us choose our own destiny but he allready knows what happens. that means that he gave the antichrist the choice but the antichrist chooses evil. if anybody can explain it in a better way feel free but to me it is the only way that i can get myself to understand it.
 
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Tobby17

Guest
#3
#3
godovermoney said:
ok first of all friend plz keep the faith. jesus is our lord and savior that is a fact. and if you analyze both sides,yah maybe god's will is confusing but what atheists believe dosnt make any sense at all and is impossible. now to your question . the only thing that i came up with is you have to think of the order in which god did these things . think about it yah he knows what exactly is gonna happen, yet that doesnt mean we dont get to choose(free will) you see he created us , then gave us free will , then looked to the future to see what would happen. so i guess what im trying to say is that he let us choose our own destiny but he allready knows what happens. that means that he gave the antichrist the choice but the antichrist chooses evil. if anybody can explain it in a better way feel free but to me it is the only way that i can get myself to understand it.
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Well that is the point of the whole thing, if the antichrist does have a free will and chooses to be good, and another one chooses to be good and another chooses to be good, then there will be no end to the world and God will end up been a liar. But God's word says that is God a man that he should lie?.

So somebody has to be it because God wants it to be so!
 
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godovermoney

Guest
#4
#4
i completely understand where u are coming from brother. this is very confusing stuff. and sometimes i just chalk it up as humans are to simple minded to understand. there is a guy on here named ramon, i will ask him if he would be kind enough to explain this to you considering he knows more about this stuff than i do. so hang on i will try to get him to answer
 
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JesusCultured

Guest
#5
#5
Straight up: God made every single one of us, does he not have the right to do with each of us as He pleases?
 
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Adrianv125

Senior Member
#6
Jan 17, 2011
567
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Let's go back in time.

Lucifer was cast down from heaven because He wanted to be like the Most High. He desired to be worshiped, so He willingly proposed it in his mind to do so. What did God create lucifer for? According to scripture, lucifer was God's most beautiful creation and the purpose He created lucifer was to serve God and to lead worship in heaven. Did God create him with a free will? Absolutely, otherwise he would still be doing what he was created for, he and his fallen angels.

Now with this same illustration, what were human beings created for?

Genesis 1:26-27

Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Romans 8:29

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Yes, we were created to be like God. After all we were created in His image.
What is God like?

Galatians 5:22-23

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

Is every human being accomplishing the purpose that we were created for? Absolutely not, because humanity chose reject it's purpose, much like lucifer.

Ephesians 2:1-3

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

So by nature, every human being that is born, just as this passage says, is controlled by the spirit of lucifer, whose fruit is the following.

Galatians 5:19-21

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

So then, if the antichrist which we all can agree is a human being, is born like all of us are born, he will be controlled just like all of us were by the spirit of satan. The difference is that he will be empowered by satan and in reality be satan in the flesh.

Does everybody still have free will to obey God? You bet.
 
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Adrianv125

Senior Member
#7
Jan 17, 2011
567
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#7
Just so you know, homosexuals weren't created, human beings were, it was just two of them in the beginning. A man, and a woman. They disobeyed God and that's when ALL sin came into the world, including homosexuality.

Remember what I said on the other post. Humanity was created in the image of God, that was the PURPOSE of humanity. This man(Antichrist) is destined to destruction, not because God created humanity to be destroyed, but because this man will be satan incarnate.

Luke 4:5-6

5 Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said to Him, “All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish.

So you see, this man which is satan himself, will be given the kingdoms of this world only for a while to test those who dwell on the earth so they can choose for the last chance either to be with God or not. That is what satan chose for himself when he disobeyed God. What will the price be of this choice he made in the beginning? Eternal separation from God.
 
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Adrianv125

Senior Member
#8
Jan 17, 2011
567
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#8
NO ONE has an excuse to not believe in God. He is creator, He is savior, and He is king for all eternity. If you want to see His hand at work throughout history, look at the nation of Israel, which are His people.
 
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Adrianv125

Senior Member
#9
Jan 17, 2011
567
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#9
Matthew 13

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”’”
 
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Ramon

Guest
#10
#10
Tobby17 said:
I've been thinking, the antichrists is supposed to be somebody who is born that way right?. Somebody whom God ordained to be the antichrist. Even if it is against his will?. Some people will argue that the antichrist has a choice to make and can decide not to be the antichrist?. But if that is the case with all of them, and they all decide not to choose this path, then there will be no antichrist and the world will never come to and end. And God will end up been a liar. In order for God not to be a liar, that means somebody has to be the antichrist, even if it is against his will, because he will be created with this desire.
Bible says the antichrist is a man that is destined for destruction right?. So God created him just so he can be destroyed. Why will God do such a thing?. I mean God makes his own creation for destruction just so that the scriptures can be fufilled, Just like it was the case with Pharaoh, or the case with Homosexuals the day they were made that way.
Really, i find the whole concept very difficult to believe, and i think Atheism will make a little more sense. No insults meant. That's one of the reason i don't come on CC again. because i just find it difficult to believe how God can make these decisions.

Maybe it's just better off not being a Christian
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How are you my friend. These people really care about you.

It was written that the spirit of Antichrist is anyone who claims that Jesus Christ has not come in the flesh. It was written further to warn us that there are, in-fact MANY Antichrist already in the world. From the time when the Apostles were here all the way up unto the return.

The reason there are always Antichrists present is because Satan does not know when the Lord will return, and any time he sees souls being saved he trembles, as his time will be up. Many people don't know this, so things get confused.

I want to warn you my friend, anyone that turns their back on God in these crucial times will not be free from deception. It is far too late to go against God. Jesus warned that there is a type of ground that receives the word with joy and endures for a while, but when persecution comes because of the word they are gradually offended. And there is the other ground that the cares of the world choke the word and the person becomes unfruitful.

We are living in the end of times as the prophet foretold. 2,000 years is nothing compared to eternity. God is far above us in his methods. Some of them I don't understand but the part I do makes me tremble.

My friend the Lord is giving people over to evil who have turned their backs on him. He is allowing them to indulge themselves in their lusts, and he is not interfering with them. Because the people have rejected him, their hearts are being hardened. It is too late my friend. Too late. This is why it is called the good fight of faith. And it is more of a fight than many realize. Just cry out to Jesus and he will teach you and prepare you for the times.

May Jesus bless you.
 
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Peter321

Guest
#11
#11
Have faith in the lord bro, he's allmighty, pretty sure he knows what he's doing :)
Also i think somewhere is written you have to have believe like a child or something along those lines, i think that's very true, it means you should just accept whatever God has written in the bible and tells us, because it really is true!
 
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vicfordham

Guest
#12
#12
Hey buddy...remember that Jesus was God on Earth...just as the antiChrist will be the incarnation of Satan on Earth....he will not be a man but will only seem to be...It's not some dude that simply must get over the fact that he is the antiChrist...He will be an evil person who knows exactly why he was born. Don't try to make it more complicated than it is!
 
shemaiah

shemaiah

Senior Member
#13
Jan 28, 2011
2,233
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#13
God is the only one who can give you the understand and knowlegde you so seek. The world is full of confussion and pain, Jesus died so that we no longer have to carry those burdens... All we have to do is ask Him. Jesus died so that you can live, in His grace, love, peace and joy! God bless
 
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Tobby17

Guest
#14
#14
vicfordham said:
Hey buddy...remember that Jesus was God on Earth...just as the antiChrist will be the incarnation of Satan on Earth....he will not be a man but will only seem to be...It's not some dude that simply must get over the fact that he is the antiChrist...He will be an evil person who knows exactly why he was born. Don't try to make it more complicated than it is!
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Does that change the fact that he was created by God?, And when you say he knows why he was born, what do you mean?. Because that only supports my point.

He was born to be destroyed..
 
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godovermoney

Guest
#15
#15
tobby... you are lost my friend you must realize that just because it doesnt make sense to you doesnt mean it is not real. it is called faith, god works in mysterious ways my brother.and all of his works arnt going to make perfect sense to us.If you are determind to find an answer to this than keep reading and praying for understanding.

judges 13:18
He replied, “Why do you ask my name? It is beyond understanding. ”

this verse refers to Manoah asking an angel of the Lord what his name is. this verse clearly states that some works of the lord are beyond our understanding
 
zeroturbulence

zeroturbulence

Senior Member
#16
Aug 2, 2009
24,580
4,268
113
#16
You know how Christ came down as God, yet he is both God and the Son of God at the same time? I believe that is exactly the way the devil will come as the anti-christ (two separate beings that are actually one).

God made the devil as the most intelligent, beautiful archangel (Lucifer - which means light) in heaven, but Lucifer got greedy and wanted to be God so he recruited 1/3 of the angels in heaven and tried to overthrow God. Thats why God sent them to hell for eternity.

The part of the puzzle which makes this all worthwhile to God is the fact that God does not know how many or how few of those he created with love will love him back and obey him. Our freewill keeps God interested in how it all plays out even though he does have an "end game strategy" already planned. No one knows when that end game will start and maybe God is waiting for just the right time to start it.
 
shellybell7

shellybell7

Member
#17
May 2, 2010
42
0
6
#17
Hi i wanted to add something. God makes vessels of wrath fitted for destruction.. like people have said there have been numerous anti Christ in history.. It sounds like you are a Judas Sympathizer as well... there argument goes something like this .... well if Judas never betrayed Jesus he wouldn't have died on the cross and all humanity would still be lost.. no, no, no! Judas willfully chose to back stab Jesus for money.. he had a choice... does the anti Christ have a choice? i don't believe so nor do i believe he is human. Did God create the anti Christ? I think that is up for debate.. I will say satan has a counterfeit for everything that God has.

If you are losing faith over the fact that evil gets destroyed then where was your faith originally? the one who destroyed evil on the cross (Jesus) or the one who is constantly deceiving the nations(satan)???
 
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godovermoney

Guest
#18
#18
shellybell i think you have a good point but if i could just comment on one thing that you were wrong about. The antichrist is in fact a human.

john 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.

2 john 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

so basically the antichrist is a man but not only one man. Any who do not acknowledge Christ as our lord and savior is the antichrist
 
shellybell7

shellybell7

Member
#19
May 2, 2010
42
0
6
#19
godovermoney said:
shellybell i think you have a good point but if i could just comment on one thing that you were wrong about. The antichrist is in fact a human.

john 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.

2 john 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

so basically the antichrist is a man but not only one man. Any who do not acknowledge Christ as our lord and savior is the antichrist
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I agree. I guess what i was trying to convey with that is it's satans counterfeit but yes still a man. thanks for the correction brother! :)
 
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godovermoney

Guest
#20
#20
hey no problem sister i knew what you were getting at :)
 
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