Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

Joshua175 · Nov 26, 2011

Deuteronomy 30:19 "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live"

John 3:17-18 "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

DinoDillinger · Nov 26, 2011

Jimmy well played sir, you made me chuckle a bit, I hope nobody's feelings where hurt. Your a very sharp young man, now riddle me this... Did God pre-ordain that you should relentlessly defend His honor at every barrage from the free will camp? If you desire people's eyes to be opened to the great truths of scripture maybe more intercessory prayer and less debating/mental wrestling? I mean, you believe God is in control and you exert so much energy battling in hand to hand combat??? Why? Well I know why, it's very tempting... I'm tempted to erase this and join you but I think if you failed to convince them then it would be a waste of time.

Anyways, I think the better question is, why does God choose to save anyone?

lil_christian · Nov 26, 2011

G4JC said:

Let me just KISS (Keep It Short and Simple) this statement and say that whilst God knows what choice they will make, he will not control which path they will take. God will not overtake a persons free-will, furthermore if you decide to leave God you can.

OSAS (Once Save Always Saved) dogma and New-Calvinism theology states that if you want to live a sinful life and think you are elected for heaven - You Are! No need for repentance and forgiveness of sin bro. your in.

So simply, God, in effort of not creating mindless zombies, has offered his free gift to everyone - but only you and I can accept it for ourselves. He can draw people via the use of His Word, tracts, and evangelism, but it is a man's heart that is required to change on it's own. Everyone must make this choice.

Calvinism pretty much states, God dictates the one for heaven and hell. Some are simply "elected"/damned for Hell, so we don't even need to witness to them. There are varying levels of Calvinism so each Calvinism may tell you a varying story - but it all boils down to sinners saved by God's sovereign grace, with no real need to live a sinless life and be like Christ. While God does have sovereign grace, we must realize that this does not mean living in sin and continuing in sin as a Christian....

Now let's fill you in on the TULIP...

Rather than saying Calvinism (God has elected everyone before the beginning of time), or Armenian (believes in man's free will, but has issues with Trinity(?)), I believe God knows the choices that will be played out in the end, but that we must decide them. Some may call this...
syn·er·gism (s

n

r-j

z

m)n.1. Synergy.
2. Christianity The doctrine that individual salvation is achieved through a combination of human will and divine grace.

[New Latin synergismus, from Greek sunergos, working together : sun-, syn- + ergon, work; see werg- in Indo-European roots.]

Ultimately, read your Bible and pray and ask God for yourself! It is very important to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
"If you have a Bible - READ IT. If you read the bible - BELIEVE IT. If you believe the bible - LIVE IT!"

Thank you!!

jimmydiggs · Nov 26, 2011

lil_christian said:

The tapestry as I recall was smybolic of the seperation between man and God due to sin, and that the priests ere the intercessors, and now christ is our interecessor.

How do you know this?

I just want to make sure I understand your view of satan when I ask this: Can God lock up Satan in hell right now? If yes, why hasn't he? If no, why not?

Is God obligated to save anyone? Would God be just as loving, if he saved no one? Would the cross be less powerful if only one person was saved?

lil_christian · Nov 26, 2011

jimmydiggs said:

Yeah, so how can anything get between us and God?

Why do you think Satan was kicked out of Heaven? He rejected God as Supreme Authority. You think someone who doesn't believe in God or doesn't acknowledge Him as Creator, Supreme Authority, etc. would be able to get into Heaven?

Isn't Satan supposed to be bound after Revelation's been fulfilled, or it's part of the fulfillment of Revelation?

ANSWER 1: God didn't HAVE to send Jesus down to die on the cross and rise three days later. He didn't HAVE to give us anything. But He did, because He loves us. God's love for us is infinite. And He's jealous for us, and He continually shows Himself in everyone's lives.

ANSWER 2: I'm not really sure on that one.

ANSWER 3: If even one person sinned Jesus would have died for them.

Snackersmom · Nov 26, 2011

Wow. I considered joining this debate, but I don't think it would be very helpful. Instead, let me just say, to Jimmy and Lil'Christian, that I love you both to death. But you are starting to remind me of a bickering old married couple. Seriously.

Calvin isn't worth arguing for. Jesus is. His words are truth and life. It is by HIS stripes that we are healed. Please, don't ANYONE lean on their own understanding on this matter. Ask God directly, with an open heart, and He will show you. Who cares what Calvin thinks about salvation? It only matters what Jesus thinks. Peace and love to all.

lil_christian · Nov 26, 2011

Snackersmom said:

Wow. I considered joining this debate, but I don't think it would be very helpful. Instead, let me just say, to Jimmy and Lil'Christian, that I love you both to death. But you are starting to remind me of a bickering old married couple. Seriously.

Calvin isn't worth arguing for. Jesus is. His words are truth and life. It is by HIS stripes that we are healed. Please, don't ANYONE lean on their own understanding on this matter. Ask God directly, with an open heart, and He will show you. Who cares what Calvin thinks about salvation? It only matters what Jesus thinks. Peace and love to all.

You're right, Snackers. I'm outta this thread. God Bless and thank you

Snackersmom · Nov 26, 2011

lil_christian said:

Welcome

. Love ya, Sis. Love you too, Jimmy.

jimmydiggs · Nov 27, 2011

DinoDillinger said:

Nah.

I believe in the full sovereignty of God. A seperate doctrine yet over-lapping with Calvinism. I don't believe, however, that I can say yes to the question in that I have not relentlessly defended his honor at every barrage from those who would say that it is we who save ourselves, by choosing to save ourselves.

Jude 1:3
3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people.

Indeed. It is by Grace Alone.

jimmydiggs · Nov 27, 2011

Snackersmom said:

John Chapter 6

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” 41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

jimmydiggs · Nov 27, 2011

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVPigcb888M[/video]

Siberian_Khatru · Nov 27, 2011

Do no be wise in your opinion. - Romans 13:10a.

lil_christian · Nov 28, 2011

jimmydiggs said:

John Chapter 6

35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.” 41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”

43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

What HAS the Father given Jesus?

ro84 · Nov 28, 2011

Hi Miranda! Great question and one that is answered differently by every person.

It is also a question that invites each Christian to participate in God's eternal plan. As many friends have said here, God extends his hand to everyone. However, while each one of us makes our journey of life, trying to find out why it is that God saves just a few, we must answer another question simultaneously. If Christ has promised to save me and he has said, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me', what is it that I can do to be a part of that eternal plan, How do I participate in helping the people I know to recognise the outstretched arms of Christ?

You will answer your question yourself, in course of time, but even as you ask questions of our Creator, never stop asking some of yourself, for He has given you free will. You are His instrument.

rafaelsald · Nov 28, 2011

I just want to ask my arminians friends (believers of "free will"):

Can a dead man raise himself from his grave by his own will?

Or can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil. Jeremiah 13:23

lil_christian · Nov 28, 2011

rafaelsald said:

How do you even know that man is total depraved? I chose my beliefs. I chose to follow Jesus. After I did my part, He's doing the rest.

A question for my Calvinist friends:

If God cursed man with total depravity, why isn't it listed as one of the curses in Genesis when God gave them a whole list of curses?

rafaelsald · Nov 28, 2011

lil_christian said:

Initially, my first question is associated with the context of Ephesians 2:3-8 which says in verse 5:

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) {by...: or, by whose grace}"

How do you interpret this verse? (Read the whole context as well)

Answering your questions... It's not me who said that man is total depraved, but God's Word:

I - All men are born in sin and suffering the penalty which God announced at the beginning (Genesis 2:17).

II - The Apostle Paul in his letter to the Romans says in chapter 5, verse 12 that "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: {for that: or, in whom} ". This verse doesn't say that death will come when all have sinned, but that has come for everyone, because all have sinned. At some point in the past, all have sinned, even those who were not even born, and so, all born dead in trespasses and sin.

And when everyone has sinned, so that everyone is born dead in their sins? The only possible answer (Romans 5:12) is that all sinned in Adam.

And you said you "chose to follow Jesus"... But the Apostle Paul in his letter to the church at Ephesus in chapter 2, verses 8 and 9 says that :
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: {it is} the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Faith is a pure gift given by God to you. In other words, GOD gave you FAITH that made YOU believe in CHRIST as your only Lord and Savior.

lil_christian · Nov 28, 2011

rafaelsald said:

Initially, my first question is associated with the context of Ephesians 2:3-8 which says in verse 5:

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) {by...: or, by whose grace}"

How do you interpret this verse? (Read the whole context as well)

Answering your questions... It's not me who said that man is total depraved, but God's Word:

I - All men are born in sin and suffering the penalty which God announced at the beginning (Genesis 2:17).

II - The Apostle Paul in his letter to the Romans says in chapter 5, verse 12 that "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: {for that: or, in whom} ". This verse doesn't say that death will come when all have sinned, but that has come for everyone, because all have sinned. At some point in the past, all have sinned, even those who were not even born, and so, all born dead in trespasses and sin.

And when everyone has sinned, so that everyone is born dead in their sins? The only possible answer (Romans 5:12) is that all sinned in Adam.

And you said you "chose to follow Jesus"... But the Apostle Paul in his letter to the church at Ephesus in chapter 2, verses 8 and 9 says that :
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: {it is} the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Faith is a pure gift given by God to you. In other words, GOD gave you FAITH that made YOU believe in CHRIST as your only Lord and Savior.

Yeah, God's grace saves everyone who chooses to believe. God's gift is available to EVERYONE.

rafaelsald · Nov 28, 2011

lil_christian said:

However, God's grace is irresistible. Tomorrow night I'll talk more about it. I'm going to sleep.

Good night! God bless you!

jimmydiggs · Nov 29, 2011

lil_christian said:

It's what the bible teaches.

So you had to work, and he finished it. Gotch'ya'.

I guess I can't answer this one then can I.

Who said it was a curse? Total Depravity is a result of Original Sin.

Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

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