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Thread: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

  1. #1
    mirandie
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    Question Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    God is in control of everything, he knows the future. Why is it that he only chooses to save certain people?

  2. #2
    mirandie
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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Hello? Anyone?

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    Senior Member Jilly81's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Mirandie, I recently heard it phrased in a similar way to this (which I agree with, BTW): God KNOWS who will reach up and grasp the hand that Jesus extends to them through His sacrifice on the cross, but He doesn't DECIDE. Salvation is offered to all, though not all accept it.

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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    I like how Jilly81 phrased that. I agree with that too. God extends the costly invitation to salvation to the WHOLE world. But not everyone chooses to accept the invitation.

    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

    1 Timothy 2:
    3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

  5. #5
    HeftyFine
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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    I believe in Calvinism so my view point is different from many other Christians but I still consider myself a strong Christian (not willing to debate on me and Calvinism) and the bottom line is that God is sovereign. He can choose what He wants and we may not understand many things but he's all mighty and we need to have faith. If you have felt the presence of God then you know it's Him calling. We don't know if God ever really does "choose" people but either way you can follow God and at the end YOU are responsible for YOUR life. No one can answer this question but God himself but just remember that our mind frame works different than God's mind frame. God may be in control you're right, but some things He leaves for us to decide.

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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Quote Originally Posted by mirandie View Post
    God is in control of everything, he knows the future. Why is it that he only chooses to save certain people?
    While you are right that God chooses to save people, as John 6 and Ephesians 1 makes so clear...

    Quote Originally Posted by John 6

    35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
    41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?” 43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’[d] Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me. 46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father. 47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Ephesians 1
    3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[b] predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he[d] made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
    11 In him we were also chosen,[e] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
    Ephesians 1 tells us that those who are saved, are chosen by God, and then it says WHY they are chosen. It's not because of anything about them, but rather, it is on the basis of God's good will and purpose, to the praise of his glorious grace.



    Quote Originally Posted by CheekyGrin
    2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

    1 Timothy 2:
    3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
    Context is a luxury. Poor women, verse 4 excludes them. :P



    I'll bold the parts you need to pay attention to.


    Quote Originally Posted by 2 Peter 3
    1 Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 2 I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.

    3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
    8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.[a]
    The meaning of verse 9 is defined by the previous verses. I'll let you have a try before I explain.



    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Timothy 2
    1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.

    8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. 11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
    Let's play the context game!

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    Senior Member lil_christian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    I was wonderin' where ya were, Jimmy.

    Hebrews 7:24-25

    23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, 24 but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. 25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

    Now, Hebrews 7 is talking about priesthood, and how they "existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing" but Jesus, because He's beat death, "because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently." and so, ANYONE who draws near to God WILL BE SAVED!! Not those who are predestined to be saved, not whoever is related to the Jonas Brothers, not whoever is Barney the Dinosaur's best friend, but ANYONE who draws near to God WILL BE SAVED. (btw I read the whole chapter of Hebrews 7...so I did my homework.)
    Hope sleeps without me
    Her sweet dreams surround me,
    But I'm left out
    I'll need a fix now
    To believe, to feel

    These rooms are dark now
    These halls are hollow,
    And so am I
    She is hard to find now
    To believe, to see

    Hope is what we crave,
    And that will never change
    So I stand and wait
    I need a drop of grace
    To carry me today,
    A simple song to say
    It's written on my soul:
    Hope's what we crave

    ~ For King & Country - "Hope is What We Crave"

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    Senior Member lil_christian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Quote Originally Posted by lil_christian View Post
    I was wonderin' where ya were, Jimmy.

    Hebrews 7:24-25

    23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, 24 but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. 25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

    Now, Hebrews 7 is talking about priesthood, and how they "existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing" but Jesus, because He's beat death, "because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently." and so, ANYONE who draws near to God WILL BE SAVED!! Not those who are predestined to be saved, not whoever is related to the Jonas Brothers, not whoever is Barney the Dinosaur's best friend, but ANYONE who draws near to God WILL BE SAVED. (btw I read the whole chapter of Hebrews 7...so I did my homework.)
    Another thing I'd like to add is, this shows you that it was all finished on the cross. When Jesus died and rose again, IT WAS FINISHED. Praise the Lord!!! God doesn't NEED to choose. Let those who want to come to Him, COME TO HIM! It gives me great joy to know this.
    Hope sleeps without me
    Her sweet dreams surround me,
    But I'm left out
    I'll need a fix now
    To believe, to feel

    These rooms are dark now
    These halls are hollow,
    And so am I
    She is hard to find now
    To believe, to see

    Hope is what we crave,
    And that will never change
    So I stand and wait
    I need a drop of grace
    To carry me today,
    A simple song to say
    It's written on my soul:
    Hope's what we crave

    ~ For King & Country - "Hope is What We Crave"

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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Lil_Christian, I just had several paragraphs typed up. I hit backspace to fix an error, and my entire browser tab went back a page. I lost it all.

    Debating Calvinism: Five Points, Two ... - Dave Hunt, James White - Google Books <--- click


    Check that link out, read up to where he quotes Hebrews 7, and then the pragraph or so after. I'd copy paste if I could. I'll post the other part when I get back, I have to go with my dad to the city, otherwise I'd just re-type everything right now.

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    Senior Member lil_christian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Heaven isn't a VIP party that only certain people are invited to.
    Simona25 likes this.
    Hope sleeps without me
    Her sweet dreams surround me,
    But I'm left out
    I'll need a fix now
    To believe, to feel

    These rooms are dark now
    These halls are hollow,
    And so am I
    She is hard to find now
    To believe, to see

    Hope is what we crave,
    And that will never change
    So I stand and wait
    I need a drop of grace
    To carry me today,
    A simple song to say
    It's written on my soul:
    Hope's what we crave

    ~ For King & Country - "Hope is What We Crave"

  11. #11
    asd101
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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Maybe righteousness has to ebe done.. but i bet theres more!!! ...

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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Debating Calvinism quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by James R. White
    The truth of the divine intercession of Jesus Christ for his people is without question the most compelling biblical proof of particular redemption. When we keep in mind the fact that, due to the nature of His work as High Priest, Christ interecedes for all of those for whom He died and only for those for whom He died, the intention and scope of His work becomes quite clear. The High Priest cannot intercede for those for whom no offering is made, of course. And it is His duty to intercede for those for whom the offering has been made. Hence, the question of the scope and intention of His work is answered by considering this question: "Can Christ fail to bring about the full salvation of any person for whom He dies and for whom He intercedes?" The Reformed response is a firm no. The non-Reformed response, when the question is pressed, must be "Yes, Christ can die for a person and intercede before the Father for that person, but since salvation is not a matter of what hte Father or Son do but what the person allows them to do, Christ can and does intercede for multitudes of lost people, to no avail." One recoils from such an assertion, but it is nonetheless the conclusion of those who hold to universal atonement.

    Consider the biblical teaching from Hebrews:
    24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely[a] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. (Hebrews 7:24-25)
    Why is Jesus able to save "forever" (other translations have "to the uttermost")? Because He intercedes for them. So if Jesus intercedes for those who are lost, this passage makes no sense. Obviously, the biblical truth is that if Jesus intercedes for you, you will be saved. But since Christ intercedes for those for whom He dies, the group for which he dies must be as limited in number as those who are saved; that is, He dies for the elect. And the fact that His death does not merely make men savable but actually saves is also borne out in Hebrews:

    11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining[b] eternal redemption.
    (Hebrews 9:11-12)
    http://books.google.com/books?id=sVb...page&q&f=false <--- click

    Quote Originally Posted by lil_christian View Post
    Heaven isn't a VIP party that only certain people are invited to.
    I agree. Although, I personally wouldn't put quite the emphasis on Heaven. You'll get pretty bored pretty quick if all you're interested in is an Hawaiian beach Vacation.


    Unconditional Election:

    God's choice of certain individuals unto salvation before the foundation of the world rested solely in His own sovereign will. His choice of particular sinners was not based on any foreseen response or obedience on their part, such as faith, repentance, etc. On the contrary, God gives faith and repentance to each individual whom He selected. These acts are the result, not the cause of God's choice. Election therefore was not determined by or conditioned upon any virtuous quality or act foreseen in man. Those whom God sovereignly elected He brings through the power of the Spirit to a willing acceptance of Christ. Thus God's choice of the sinner, not the sinner’s choice of Christ, is the ultimate cause of salvation.
    (Romans 9:10-21, Ephesians 1:4-11, Ephesians 2:4-10, Romans 8:29-30, Acts 11:18, Acts 13:48)


    How much does a person need?

    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 9

    10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[a] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[b]
    14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
    “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
    and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
    [c]

    16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[d] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. 19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[e] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ephesians 2
    4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 8
    29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acts 11
    18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
    Quote Originally Posted by Acts 13
    48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

    Lil_Christian, I know you don't like Calvinism (unless you've changed from the post you expressed that in), but too bad. It's the only Gospel we've got. The bible so CLEARLY teaches it.

    I didn't like it for a long time, and I tried to change what things say, and got hung up on the "all verses" just like that song by Madonna. (click here)




    Who are you, O human, to question God?



    This isn't just Paul teaching this either. It's all over the OT, and a really good example is Ezekiel 36.

    16 Again the word of the LORD came to me: 17 “Son of man, when the people of Israel were living in their own land, they defiled it by their conduct and their actions. Their conduct was like a woman’s monthly uncleanness in my sight. 18 So I poured out my wrath on them because they had shed blood in the land and because they had defiled it with their idols. 19 I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions. 20 And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, ‘These are the LORD’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.’ 21 I had concern for my holy name, which the people of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.

    22 “Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. 23 I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD, declares the Sovereign LORD, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.
    24 “‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. 25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave your ancestors; you will be my people, and I will be your God. 29 I will save you from all your uncleanness. I will call for the grain and make it plentiful and will not bring famine upon you. 30 I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and wicked deeds, and you will loathe yourselves for your sins and detestable practices. 32 I want you to know that I am not doing this for your sake, declares the Sovereign LORD. Be ashamed and disgraced for your conduct, people of Israel!
    33 “‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt. 34 The desolate land will be cultivated instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass through it. 35 They will say, “This land that was laid waste has become like the garden of Eden; the cities that were lying in ruins, desolate and destroyed, are now fortified and inhabited.” 36 Then the nations around you that remain will know that I the LORD have rebuilt what was destroyed and have replanted what was desolate. I the LORD have spoken, and I will do it.’ 37 “This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Once again I will yield to Israel’s plea and do this for them: I will make their people as numerous as sheep, 38 as numerous as the flocks for offerings at Jerusalem during her appointed festivals. So will the ruined cities be filled with flocks of people. Then they will know that I am the LORD.”


    Were the Israelites God's Chosen People, were was Yahweh the Israelite's chosen god? If you recognize Total Depravity, and Unconditional Election, then you must be consistant and answer with; "Yahweh, was the Isrealite's chosen god."

    Just one verse, among many:

    Quote Originally Posted by Deut 14
    1 You are the children of the LORD your God. Do not cut yourselves or shave the front of your heads for the dead, 2 for you are a people holy to the LORD your God. Out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, the LORD has chosen you to be his treasured possession.

    I'll stop now, or this post will end up pages long (I've already restrained myself).

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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Something else I wanted to include:

    Quote Originally Posted by Amos 3
    1 Hear this word, people of Israel, the word the LORD has spoken against you—against the whole family I brought up out of Egypt:

    2 “You only have I chosen
    of all the families of the earth;
    therefore I will punish you
    for all your sins.” 3 Do two walk together
    unless they have agreed to do so?
    4 Does a lion roar in the thicket
    when it has no prey?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavjDagoVog

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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Quote Originally Posted by lil_christian View Post
    I was wonderin' where ya were, Jimmy.

    Hebrews 7:24-25

    23 The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing, 24 but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently. 25 Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

    Now, Hebrews 7 is talking about priesthood, and how they "existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing" but Jesus, because He's beat death, "because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently." and so, ANYONE who draws near to God WILL BE SAVED!! Not those who are predestined to be saved, not whoever is related to the Jonas Brothers, not whoever is Barney the Dinosaur's best friend, but ANYONE who draws near to God WILL BE SAVED. (btw I read the whole chapter of Hebrews 7...so I did my homework.)

    Same thing as in Hebrews 4:16...

    The Greek word used is proserchomai (transliteration), "approach, go to, draw near to") is used consistently in HEbrews to representat a person approaching God (7:25; 10:1, 22; 11:6; 12:18; cf. Ex. 16:9 34:32; Lev 9:5; Deut 4:11), which is possible only when one's sins are forgiven through the sacrificial and intercessory ministry of a high preist (Heb. 7:25; 10:22). the encouragment to "Draw near" to GOd's throne implies that Christians have the privilege of a personal relationship with God.

    ESV Study bible Page 2367; study note 4:16.

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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Its a useless preoccupation to be concerned about whether or not you, me or anybody else is "saved" or "lost". Its not about being "saved" or "lost", God will save whoever he wants, even the one's that aren't officially "Christian". We are not the one's who are the judge only God is, so we cannot say who is "saved" and who is "lost". The Bible says that this is not even something that we should be occupied. Its not about being "saved" its about God that we must be concerned about.

    For the Apostle Paul said, "

    Romans 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
    2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.

    3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
    4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
    5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
    6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
    10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
    11 For there is no respect of persons with God.



    And in another place he said that he doesn't even judge his own self but it is the Lord who judges him, and that we are not supposed to judge:

    "1Corinthians 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
    4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
    5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
    Last edited by JohnChrysostom; November 23rd, 2011 at 06:20 PM.

  16. #16
    Senior Member zeroturbulence's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Ok peeple, stop arguing and have some Coffee Liqueur Pie..



  17. #17
    Senior Member lil_christian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    You know, Jimmy, you're seriously complicating salvation. It's not God that's complicating everything...we are. Stop complicating salvation. It doesn't work that way.

    16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”

    It doesn't say "Whoever was predestined to believe in Him." it says WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH, period.

    No predestination there...just that some will believe, and some won't, because they don't want to. God isn't just going to leave some people hanging and then be quick to rescue others. People dig their own graves...or else it'd be God's fault for a serial killer being on the loose and killing more than 30 people. And it'd also be God's fault for all those bank robberies...those were His will, after all. Oh and don't forget house burglaries...all the thousands that happened were obviously His will.
    Us humans aren't mindless sinners. God doesn't have some remote control. Do you THINK it was God's plan for Adam and Eve to sin, JUST so He could curse them and kick 'em outta the perfect place He made just for them? I sure hope not. I haven't seen evidence of that in the Bible. And I didn't see in the Bible that Adam and Eve sinned out of hate. The Bible says they were DECEIVED, and when it was all said and done with, they felt awful about it....how can you feel bad for doing something towards someone if you hate them?

    Isaiah 53:3-12

    4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
    6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
    7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
    8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
    9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
    10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
    11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
    12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.



    This is what Jesus did....made intercession for us and covered our sin, everything was justified on the cross...everything!! OUR transgressions, OUR iniquities, our faults, our mistakes, our sins...our everything...for everyONE...
    Hope sleeps without me
    Her sweet dreams surround me,
    But I'm left out
    I'll need a fix now
    To believe, to feel

    These rooms are dark now
    These halls are hollow,
    And so am I
    She is hard to find now
    To believe, to see

    Hope is what we crave,
    And that will never change
    So I stand and wait
    I need a drop of grace
    To carry me today,
    A simple song to say
    It's written on my soul:
    Hope's what we crave

    ~ For King & Country - "Hope is What We Crave"

  18. #18
    Senior Member lil_christian's Avatar
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    Wink Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Quote Originally Posted by zeroturbulence View Post
    Ok peeple, stop arguing and have some Coffee Liqueur Pie..

    Coffee?! Did someone say COFFEE?! Ummm yes I'll take you up on that offer!! lol
    Hope sleeps without me
    Her sweet dreams surround me,
    But I'm left out
    I'll need a fix now
    To believe, to feel

    These rooms are dark now
    These halls are hollow,
    And so am I
    She is hard to find now
    To believe, to see

    Hope is what we crave,
    And that will never change
    So I stand and wait
    I need a drop of grace
    To carry me today,
    A simple song to say
    It's written on my soul:
    Hope's what we crave

    ~ For King & Country - "Hope is What We Crave"

  19. #19
    HeftyFine
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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Uhm question, are we debating Calvinism now?

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Why is it that God only chooses to save some people?

    Quote Originally Posted by lil_christian View Post
    You know, Jimmy, you're seriously complicating salvation. It's not God that's complicating everything...we are. Stop complicating salvation. It doesn't work that way.
    Well, it is the bible... not exactly like reading the Pokeylittle Puppy. Although, admittedly, I thought Calvinism was somewhat complicated as well until I understood it. Then I saw how wonderfully simple it is. As far as your last statement, I would request that you sustantiate that scripturally.








    16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21 But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.”
    Verse 16 is no challenge to Calvinism. As to your underlining "the world", it might be a good idea if we start letting the bible define it's own terms, instead of placing into it our desired outcomes.


    It doesn't say "Whoever was predestined to believe in Him." it says WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH, period.
    Does every verse have to say it? No where in the bible will you find the word "trinity", do you still believe the trinity is scriptural?



    I can do this whole mis-reading and removing from context thing too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 5:18
    Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
    Is everyone Justified? Is everyone going to receive eternal life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 7
    7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[b] 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
    Every kind of coveting? Really? Do you really think he coveted over a Corvette?



    What about my mother? Do you think Paul coveted over my father's wife? It says, "every"...
    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 8:32
    32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?
    Does God give us "all" things? When Paul was writing, he was referring to a specific group (hencec, "us")... Did God give them Corvettes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ecclesiastes 1:2
    2 “Meaningless! Meaningless!”
    says the Teacher.
    “Utterly meaningless!
    Everything is meaningless.”
    Did Solomon believe, that God was meaningless? Is the Cross meaningless?

    Quote Originally Posted by John 16:13
    13 But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
    All the truth? Did the Holy Spirit guide them to the truth about Christian Chat? Steam Engines? The political policies of David Cameron? The future winning lottery tickets? "No, but.." Hey! It says, "all".

    Quote Originally Posted by Acts 2:44
    44 All the believers were together and had everything in common.
    They had EVERYTHING in common? They shared spouses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ephesians 1:11
    11 In him we were also chosen,[a] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will,
    Everything? Well, of course you don't believe this, otherwise that would make you a Calvy. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 11:32
    32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
    What about this verse? I'm sure you disagree with the first all statement, and the last. Oh deary me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 14:2
    2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables.
    Really? Does our faith allow us to eat the SUN?

    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 14:20
    20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble.
    Is all food clean? What about if we drop something on the floor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Romans 15:14
    14 I myself am satisfied about you, my brothers,[a] that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and able to instruct one another.
    (some translations have this verse diff) All knowledge? Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Timothy 4:10
    10For to this end we toil and strive,[a] because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
    Is he the Savior of all people? Do all people go to heaven? Are all people in union with Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Timothy 4:15
    15Practice these things, immerse yourself in them,[a] so that all may see your progress.
    Really? All will see their progress?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Timothy 5:10
    10and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work.
    The feet of ALL the saints? For all the afflicted? For EVERY good work? Did she donate money to the Salvation Army? Did she run a Relay for Life?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1 Timothy 5:20
    As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
    In the presence of ALL? Will EVERYONE be there?


    No predestination there...just that some will believe, and some won't, because they don't want to.
    Yup. Why is that they don't want to? That's what you have to answer to understand what is being said.

    God isn't just going to leave some people hanging and then be quick to rescue others. People dig their own graves...or else it'd be God's fault for a serial killer being on the loose and killing more than 30 people. And it'd also be God's fault for all those bank robberies...those were His will, after all. Oh and don't forget house burglaries...all the thousands that happened were obviously His will.
    Proverbs 16
    4 The LORD has made everything for its purpose,
    even the wicked for the day of trouble.

    ... 9 The heart of man plans his way,
    but the LORD establishes his steps

    33 The lot is cast into the lap,
    but its every decision is from the LORD.

    God is not to blame. Don't blaspheme.


    Us humans aren't mindless sinners. God doesn't have some remote control. Do you THINK it was God's plan for Adam and Eve to sin, JUST so He could curse them and kick 'em outta the perfect place He made just for them? I sure hope not. I haven't seen evidence of that in the Bible. And I didn't see in the Bible that Adam and Eve sinned out of hate. The Bible says they were DECEIVED, and when it was all said and done with, they felt awful about it....how can you feel bad for doing something towards someone if you hate them?
    Don't confuse the terms here bud. Total Depravity is a result of the fall (gen 3).

    Isaiah 53:3-12

    4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted. 5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
    6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
    7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
    8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
    9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
    10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
    11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
    12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.



    This is what Jesus did....made intercession for us and covered our sin, everything was justified on the cross...everything!! OUR transgressions, OUR iniquities, our faults, our mistakes, our sins...our everything..
    I don't see what is supposed to be the problem here.


    .for everyONE...
    See the above verses about "all".


    EDIT:
    Oh, it appears you overlooked verse 11 in Isaiah 53.

    He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

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