Transgenders

[jennimatts]

... If someone has both male and female parts, they need to pray and choose one.

You seem to be confusing Transgendered with Intersexed. They are different conditions.

Intersex (formerly called hermaphrodites) describes a person with both or indistinct genitalia. Intersex individuals might be considered transgendered only if they choose to be the opposite gender from that which they were assigned at birth.

Transgender usually describes an individual with distinctly male or female anatomy, but who expresses their gender as androgenous, or opposite of their birth sex. Transgender covers a broad range of divergance from "normal" gender expression, including crossdressers, transsexuals, etc.

Most people are understanding / accepting of Intersex persons because it is clearly a condition that one is born with. However, many people do not accept Transgender persons because it doesn't have the same clear physical evidence as a condition one is born with. However, there is growing medical evidence that transsexuals are born that way.

 

[DeezePsalms]

The obvious truth is that we are meant to be with the opposite sex. Cursed is the man that lays with another man.

 

[FrankensteinGirls]

^ we are not talking about homosexuals, we are talking about transgender individuals.

 

[VikkiKate89]

The obvious truth is that we are meant to be with the opposite sex. Cursed is the man that lays with another man.

...we're not even talking about that.

 

[jimmydiggs]

As far as being boy/girl male/female goes, the 23rd pair of Chromosomes genetically determines whether one is male or female. Gender is the outward cultural appearance.

It appears that this thread suffers from a confusion of the usage of the terms, "Gender" and "Sex".

Some examples of sex characteristics :

Women menstruate while men do not
Men have testicles while women do not
Women have developed breasts that are usually capable of lactating, while men have not
Men generally have more massive bones than women
WHO | What do we mean by "sex" and "gender"? <--- click

As far as addressing the thread title, the bible quite clearly is Complementarian.

For more on that click ---> CBMW » Summaries of the Egalitarian and Complementarian Positions <---- click

 

[lil_christian]

My personal opinion is, you can change your gender all you want, but truth is, you're still your original gender. I could change my hair color to blonde or black, but I'm still naturally a brunette. and so, if someone was male and changed to female (which occurs more often than the other way around) and slept with a male, it'd still be a sin. Because even though they "switched" genders, they are still originally a male. God does not make people the wrong gender. When He made you He got you right the first time. He took the time to make you. And to basically say "I don't like the way You made me. You made me the wrong gender!" is A) offensive towards God, I think and B) straight up wrong.

I do not intend to offend those who believe different

 

[FrankensteinGirls]

God also made people with deformations and people tend to fix those without any "your changing the way God made you" backlash

 

[lil_christian]

God also made people with deformations and people tend to fix those without any "your changing the way God made you" backlash

I don't think there's such a thing as a "gender" deformation. There are people born with missing fingers, an extra finger, a missing leg, etc. But there's no way you can be the wrong gender.

You don't NEED to change who you are...God made you. There's no other reason to be thankful for who you are. That's why no one needs plastic surgery (unless you're doing reconstructive surgery, which I understand...like someone had acid thrown on their face and they had reconstructive surgery done. I understand that one perfectly.) or anything like that. God MADE them that way for a reason

 

[jimmydiggs]

God also made people with deformations and people tend to fix those without any "your changing the way God made you" backlash

Apples and oranges. Regardless, the bible is quite clear about gender and sexuality. It's not a "you're changing the way God made you", but more of a "God has said..." Unless of course, you don't care about what God has said.

 

[jimmydiggs]

I don't think there's such a thing as a "gender" deformation. There are people born with missing fingers, an extra finger, a missing leg, etc. But there's no way you can be the wrong gender.

You don't NEED to change who you are...God made you. There's no other reason to be thankful for who you are. That's why no one needs plastic surgery (unless you're doing reconstructive surgery, which I understand...like someone had acid thrown on their face and they had reconstructive surgery done. I understand that one perfectly.) or anything like that. God MADE them that way for a reason

1 Peter 3

1 Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. 4 Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, 6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

 

[lil_christian]

Btw....you don't need to deduct points for me "misunderstanding" what a deformation is. Ok if you say I don't know, then TELL me. I didn't SAY anything negative in my post, unless you're against my views.

 

[jennimatts]

As far as being boy/girl male/female goes, the 23rd pair of Chromosomes genetically determines whether one is male or female...

There are a wide variety of naturally occurring of chromosomal abnormalities. 46XX males may be considered genetically female but otherwise appear to be male, most having descended testes. 46XY females may be considered genetically male but are externally female and even have a uterus. More than one in 500 males has an extra X chromosome.

These naturally occurring inconsistencies between chromosomal makeup and gender show that DNA cannot be relied upon for an absolute determination of sex or gender.

 

[Jordache]

First, you have to determine if gender is really all about parts. I will admit that having ambiguous genetalia (that is the pc term for hermaphrodite) is not something i can really come to a solid conclusion on in regards to how the Lord would have them lead their life, but i will say this: even someone with ambiguous genetalia has a hormonal gender. Coming from this perspective, a woman who has a histerectomy or a masectomy is not really a woman anymore. What if a man has some part of his male anatomy removed. Does that make him female? I dont think so.
Sex is NOT a psychological state! We were made in the image of God. While there are psychological attributes, it is not simply psychological.
To assume that most transgender surgeries are a result of ambiguous genetalia is completely false. The truth is, most people with gender confusion were born with an obvious physical gender. People are driven to these surgeries because they have not found their identity in Christ. Male and female is
about the Identity of christ being shown in us and through us. We all have feminine and masculine traits which originated in God. Rather than get a surgery to make their physical body agree with their confused mind, they need healing in their mind so they trully understand what being male and female is all about. And to be able to accept that a man with a high voice, extra breast tissue, or any other perceived female trait is just as much a man as any other because masculinity is not about fitting into a physical mold. On the same note, a flatulencia chested, bearded, and aggressive woman is just as much a woman as any Rufdle touting princess because again its not about physical traits.

 

[jennimatts]

I don't think there's such a thing as a "gender" deformation. There are people born with missing fingers, an extra finger, a missing leg, etc. But there's no way you can be the wrong gender.

In a perfect world, perhaps that would be true. However, we know there are a wide variety of chromosomal abnormalities. Intersexed individuals, conditions such as XX males or XY females and others are evidence that the often used biblical quote “In the beginning God created them male and female…” only applied at the “beginning” (creation), and does not logically support the commonly stated premise that changing gender is against God.

You don't NEED to change who you are...God made you. There's no other reason to be thankful for who you are. That's why no one needs plastic surgery (unless you're doing reconstructive surgery, which I understand...like someone had acid thrown on their face and they had reconstructive surgery done. I understand that one perfectly.) or anything like that. God MADE them that way for a reason

A persons gender goes beyond the anatomical sex characteristics which can be changed. It is impossible to change the individuals emotional, spiritual, and mental sense of their gender. As a result, the only possibility for bringing the gender of their mind and body into conformity is to change the body. In cases of Gender Dysphoria, withholding treatment is seen in very high percentages to lead to various disabling conditions which in turn often lead to alcohol and drug abuse, suicidal behavior. Since treatment including sex reassignment surgery is documented to be largely successful, it would be cruel to tell them to just live with it (which is essentially what you seem to be saying).

 

[Jordache]

Yeah, but gender reassignment surgery would only be enabling and confirming a fallen conclusion in the first place. To change the body is not the only option... God can and WILL heal a persona sense of gender identity if he or she allows Him to. Alcobolism, drug abuse, suicidal behavior, etc may be outcomes of a person with untreated gender dysphoria just as they may be the outcomes of someone who comes from an abusive background, is a victim of neglect, or was born disabled; but the treatment isnt to change their gender (and essentially put a big "OK" stamp on their brokeness). The healing comes in the person learning the truth of who they are in Christ as uniquely male and female. Its the same as telling a
victim of sexual abuse to sell themselves because they are aligning themselves in a practical with the way sin and brokeness has caused them to perceived their identity. Gender Dysphoria is a sin that needs to be dealt with through Gods healing grace and not mans medical "knowledge".

 

[jennimatts]

...Gender Dysphoria is a sin that needs to be dealt with through Gods healing grace and not mans medical "knowledge".

A medical/psychological diagnosis is a sin? Medical treatment is wrong?

 

[Jordache]

Yes it can be. Alcoholism is a mental disorder. Many mental disorders are causes or strengthened by agreeing with something sinful. 1) addiction is a profitable escape--alcoholism/drug addiction 2) im a mistake. I should be different---any number mental disorders including depression and gender dysphoria 3) children are objects that i can find sexual pleasure in---pedophilia
In no way do I mean to say that there isnt a biological factor in some mental illness, but i do not believe it is the only driving force in all cases. I have been diagnosed clinically depressed. Every person in my family is on medication. I also have a genética disorder which limits the amt of dopamine my body can naturally produce. If i choose to be depressed, i will be depressed... But I have a choice to fight the natural reacti

 

[Jordache]

Yes it can be. Alcoholism is a mental disorder. Many mental disorders are causes or strengthened by agreeing with something sinful. 1) addiction is a profitable escape--alcoholism/drug addiction 2) im a mistake. I should be different---any number mental disorders including depression and gender dysphoria 3) children are objects that i can find sexual pleasure in---pedophilia
In no way do I mean to say that there isnt a biological factor in some mental illness, but i do not believe it is the only driving force in all cases. I have been diagnosed clinically depressed. Every person in my family is on medication. I also have a genética disorder which limits the amt of dopamine my body can naturally produce. If i choose to be depressed, i will be depressed... But I have a choice to fight the natural reaction of my mind. The sin is not the condition itself. The sin is agreeing with it. You could be gender dysphoric and say, "regardless of what I feel God is truth and He says I was made in his perfect image as male or female. I can choose to believe and stand on that belief that regardless of how I feel because a mental issue.

I have compassion for these people. I know it's not easy... But it is possible because of Gods grace. We are created perfectly. This means we carry the perfect image of God. Its our choce whether that is the image we aim to show or whether we agree with the corruption in our body which is not from God and does not reflect His image, but the image pasted on us by a broken world.

There are people at my church who are gender confused. I still love them. I still respect them. But i also pray for them as i pray for all of my friends that would find their identity in Christ and in nothing and no one else.

 

[lil_christian]

Yes it can be. Alcoholism is a mental disorder. Many mental disorders are causes or strengthened by agreeing with something sinful. 1) addiction is a profitable escape--alcoholism/drug addiction 2) im a mistake. I should be different---any number mental disorders including depression and gender dysphoria 3) children are objects that i can find sexual pleasure in---pedophilia
In no way do I mean to say that there isnt a biological factor in some mental illness, but i do not believe it is the only driving force in all cases. I have been diagnosed clinically depressed. Every person in my family is on medication. I also have a genética disorder which limits the amt of dopamine my body can naturally produce. If i choose to be depressed, i will be depressed... But I have a choice to fight the natural reaction of my mind. The sin is not the condition itself. The sin is agreeing with it. You could be gender dysphoric and say, "regardless of what I feel God is truth and He says I was made in his perfect image as male or female. I can choose to believe and stand on that belief that regardless of how I feel because a mental issue.

I have compassion for these people. I know it's not easy... But it is possible because of Gods grace. We are created perfectly. This means we carry the perfect image of God. Its our choce whether that is the image we aim to show or whether we agree with the corruption in our body which is not from God and does not reflect His image, but the image pasted on us by a broken world.

There are people at my church who are gender confused. I still love them. I still respect them. But i also pray for them as i pray for all of my friends that would find their identity in Christ and in nothing and no one else.

I definitely agree on finding your identity in Christ. It's very important to do so!

The thing I'm not so sure about the the whole alcoholism thing...but now that I think about it, I can see how it could be. Depression is definitely a slight mental illness...but it's the lesser of them all. I'd put depression below even OCD I think it's not that bad. (Btw I am someone who does have depression, but I don't let it take control of my life. When Jesus set me free, He also set me free from depression. Praise Him for He is worthy to be praised!!! And praise Him because even at the most severe times when I was depressed I did not think about committing suicide or attempt suicide. God has protected me. And also I haven't needed to go on an actual anti-depressant I take vitamins and trace minerals and they do great!!)

 

[jennimatts]

...If a man becomes a woman, and gets married, even if he truely believes he is a woman, and has had surgery so as to have the body of a female, and has sex with his husband, isn't that still gay sex?

I know many disagree, but here's how I see it. If a person is born male but is female in mind, then regardless of who this person has a relationship with, apart from surgery this person would be heterosexual in either mind or body while at the same time homosexual in body or mind. After sex reassignment surgery she would be female in both mind and body, so that if she then married a man, it would be a heterosexual relationship.

(Perhaps that will stir up the discussion a little.)

Jenni

ps. Apologies if anyone is concerned about me posting in the teen forum, but the other thread invited everyone to post here.