Transgenders

[Johnxxxx]

Gender identity disorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tyra part 1 Transgender children and their parents speak out - YouTube

Personally I think it's totally in the realm of possibility that these individuals are females or males who were simply born with some of the wrong parts.

I mean sex is a psychological state more than anything, and it isn't like one can make the argument "God doesn't make imperfections" because well, then why do we bother trying to control things like autism, ADD, and other diseases?

But it is sort of a touchy subject, so I thought it'd be good to discuss here. What do you guys think?

In pretty basic terms, since it's late and I need to sleep, humanity is all messed up because of sin. It isn't God making mistakes or imperfections. But as you commented in the other forum "How does God feel about transgender people?" Well he loves them! He loves them the same way he loves murderers and rapists, liars and thieves. But He hates all their sins. So the question might be "Is it a sin to BECOME a different gender, physically, since it would seem that these people are already that gender in their minds. Well I can't answer that, but I do believe anyone who feels they have been born in the wrong body, gender wise, who is a Christian, wouldn't go for the surgery. I just don't feel it to be a Godly thing to do. Maybe I should have better reasons WHY, but I don't, really. Or maybe I do... If a man becomes a woman, and gets married, even if he truely believes he is a woman, and has had surgery so as to have the body of a female, and has sex with his husband, isn't that still gay sex? In my opinion, changing ones sex is a VERY hard choice for those that do it. I can't even BEGIN to understand how it must feel to believe you have been born in the wrong body. Awful, I'd imagine. But do I believe it to be something God would think is ok to change a persons sex via surgery? No, I don't.

God never made a mistake...
Nonetheless, be they transgender, homosexual, bi-sexual, sinner, God loves them.

[apples]

I read an autobiography called "She's Not There" about a man who becomes a woman because (s)he has identified as a female since a very young age. As a former husband, he hurts his marriage and puts his wife through a very strange sense of betrayal. The marriage might have been bad if he had stayed a man, since his inner "self" would be conflicted with the outside situation. However, becoming a woman and resolving the conflict eventually left a seemingly happy ending. However, for the very initial problem of hurting his wife emotionally, it is arguably sinful for obvious reasons. Also, we should choose wisely what we do with what God gives us. I am no expert, despite my studies in university sociology (of this very subject), because I am not one of the people who have conflicting gendered bodies. I wouldn't know what my conscience would tell me until I am presented with such a dilemma personally.

Inconclusively, I would say that it is wrong and sinful to change one's gender, but I understand that many feel they are existing wrongly in their natural genders.

[Canadian36]

Heres the bottom line. They always offer an excuse to why theyre the way they are, rather than offer a firm confident stand and take responsibility for their decision to be one gender or another. Instead they want to be shemale and give an excuse as to why.

[Seraphotic]

There IS a passage in the bible I can't remember without divine help lol, but states that a man or woman should never take the others place, it's why some pentacostal women don't wear pants and keep there hair long, though I'm not saying that's completely right, but changing your gender is completely a sin, some people are just lied to by Satan and some actual people.

[shiner500]

I honestly feel sick after watching that.

[apples]

Originally Posted by shiner500

I honestly feel sick after watching that.

Yeah, me too.

[FrankensteinGirls]

I have nothing against trans individuals, I can't imagine the discomfort of feeling like I was in the wrong body.

Originally Posted by Johnxxxx

and it isn't like one can make the argument "God doesn't make imperfections" because well, then why do we bother trying to control things like autism, ADD, and other diseases?

I wish I had bothered to read this slower...

God never made a mistake...
We did. God wasn't the one who brought death into the world; we were, as Adam and Eve at the apple.

[ness]

God never made/makes mistakes, kind of the bottom line here right? There is no way a person can be put into a different body they were meant to. Like said it is a type of excuse. God loves the sinner but not the sin.
-My opinion.

[FrankensteinGirls]

^ there is evidence that there are some detectable neurological differences in the brains of transgendered people, I really disagree about it being an excuse or that "there is no way" because I know some transgender people and know the hurt that they go through, no one would do that just because.

[VikkiKate89]

I think people who believe it's completely outside the realm of possibility need to reassess their standing and consider hermaphrodites for a second... people who are born with both genders' reproductive organs and therefore are both male and female. What are you supposed to do with those? No matter which gender they choose to identify themselves with they'll be living against the other part so that means they just can't win.

If God allowed people to be born with that condition, is it completely impossible for God to have allowed a human to be born with the brain and essentially identity of a male but have the body of a female or vise versa? Is it impossible to be born the wrong gender just like being born with any other defect?

To me it's not a way of making an excuse for yourself, it's not a sinful act, it's simply a medical condition that needs to be looked at medically and not through a mind closed to possibilities. And given all the research that has been done on transgenders, to me it's a legit condition and not a sinful act.

[Cheekygrin]

*Agrees with VikkiKate89 ^*
There are obvious natural medical issues that call for some very serious questions on this issue. Too often, religion pokes it's nose where it doesn't belong and claims to have some kind of authority on a subject it knows nothing about. There are some obvious behaviors that are relegated as immoral according to scripture. However, when the issue is not so obvious and the lines are blurred such as in the case of hermaphrodites, then we simply need to apply grace and back away.
Throughout the ages, religious busy bodies and meddlers have rallied against all manner of things in the name of God. Against science, medicine, maths, technology and the arts. To me, this is what true blaspheme is, far more than an "OMG" ever will be. The fruit of bad religion brings death. Spiritually, intellectually, emotionally, and in Jesus case (as well as many others) even physically. But Christ came so that we can have life and life in abundance. Truth triumphs over superstition. Even when the superstition prowls along, dressed in supposedly christian clothing.

My stand is this. The bible teaches me that those who live apart from God are not for me to judge. They have denied the life and standard to which God has called us. I therefore can not hold them to that standard. That is between them and God. Those who claim to follow Jesus however, we are called to a standard and scripture teaches us to judge according to it and to hold each other to it through love and encouragement.
If a sinner wants to sin, so be it. If a saint wants to sin, I am compelled to action through love for them and obedience to God.

In conclusion, why should we be shocked that the world lives in a depraved way? They are separated from The Father! As for me, am I doing what God wants me to do in the continuing ministry of Jesus' gospel of salvation and the Kingdom of God to the world?

[Mike1313]

Originally Posted by rodogg

"How does God feel about transgender people?" Well he loves them! He loves them the same way he loves murderers and rapists, liars and thieves. .

I just find it disturbing the way many christians compare or catagorize people, or in this case, trannys, with murderers, rapists, and theives.

These people are not criminals! It's debatable whether they are "confused" or not. I'm not here to fight that war.

But don't place them in the same line as a murderer or rapist...

We are all liars so I guess that is the same as if we were all murderers or rapists...

That is some seriously messed up morality right there!

Not that I necessarily have, or believe in morals, but I can see the difference. And I am a bit frightened by any man or god that cannot see that difference.

[mori]

To add to VikkiKate89's discussion of hermaphroditism, around 1 in 500-700 men have an extra X chromosome and can express some tendencies and secondary sexual characteristics more commonly associated with stereotypical females.

There are androgen insensitivity syndromes, in which the body for one reason or another refuses to respond to testosterone, like a type II diabetic's cells refuse insulin. In complete AIS, you have an apparent woman's body with a man's genetics - except no uterus or ovaries. There are syndromes in which a male's body simply doesn't produce testosterone, like a type I diabetic's body doesn't produce insulin.

There are all sorts of idiopathic oddities too. I know a young girl who recently started growing a beard because of a tumor on her adrenals. Her brain was probably masculinized before the tumor was successfully removed; surprisingly, some of this can reverse itself over time, but this was a crucial growing period. What won't change back to a more standard female body?

Especially before the modern day, some of these people, if they wanted to fit clearly into the sexual dichotomy, didn't have any viable medical options other than female hormones. Exogenous testosterone would either destroy the liver or, if injected, be converted to estrogen and lead to an even less standard appearance; think the bearded lady. These days we have some other interesting chemicals to inject to bring a person more in line with their phenotype, but that's not always the best solution.

These people need an excuse like folks with Type I diabetes need an excuse to inject insulin. No, being intersex doesn't tend to put you in comas, but the dangers of not fitting into an easily recognizable sexual identity are real. As some of the above posts will indicate.

Originally Posted by Mike1313

I just find it disturbing the way many christians compare or catagorize people, or in this case, trannys, with murderers, rapists, and theives.

These people are not criminals! It's debatable whether they are "confused" or not. I'm not here to fight that war.

But don't place them in the same line as a murderer or rapist...

We are all liars so I guess that is the same as if we were all murderers or rapists...

That is some seriously messed up morality right there!

Not that I necessarily have, or believe in morals, but I can see the difference. And I am a bit frightened by any man or god that cannot see that difference.

I felt I should say something here, Mike.
I can't speak for rodogg, but I imagine he viewed people who changed genders as sinners.
And besides, if you offend in one part of the law, you offend in all. So, with that said, you, I, and everyone in the world are in the same category as murderers and rapists, or sinners. That doesn't make us a murderer or a rapist, though.
We are all sinners, no question.

[FrankensteinGirls]

Originally Posted by VikkiKate89

I think people who believe it's completely outside the realm of possibility need to reassess their standing and consider hermaphrodites for a second... people who are born with both genders' reproductive organs and therefore are both male and female. What are you supposed to do with those? No matter which gender they choose to identify themselves with they'll be living against the other part so that means they just can't win.

If God allowed people to be born with that condition, is it completely impossible for God to have allowed a human to be born with the brain and essentially identity of a male but have the body of a female or vise versa? Is it impossible to be born the wrong gender just like being born with any other defect?

To me it's not a way of making an excuse for yourself, it's not a sinful act, it's simply a medical condition that needs to be looked at medically and not through a mind closed to possibilities. And given all the research that has been done on transgenders, to me it's a legit condition and not a sinful act.

You say what I feel, only completely better than I was able to.

this is how I look at it: If you're born with both parts, or your X and Y chromosomes are messed up, then seek God for healing or wisdom on the matter.
BUT there are those who really aren't transgender, and just do it out of confusion. I love them all the same, and I'd offer to sit by them in church even! I use to be in this lifestyle, so my heart goes out to all of them.

This subject came up at church one night. We had a singing group to come and sing the night before. The drum player dresses in a way that you cant tell what sex they are. Someone asked if they may be transgender. We found out later that she was a she but she dress according to her convinctions. Sorry about the spelling. This is what the pastor said. If someone has both male and female parts, they need to pray and choose one. Now, this is the way I think about it. A transgender needs to find out which is dominamte, the male parts or female parts. If they are able to have baby's then they need to choose the female. Otherwise they need to choose the male. (Trying not to go into deep details here).