using relativism in religious interpretations

[galacticsuburb]

Hi there,
I was born into a Christian family, and have been a follower since birth. I just graduated from a four year Biochemistry degree, and lets just say things seem impossibly complex, and regional (our planet in a virtually unlimited void), to have come about in any other way except through the course of a LONG duration of time. What I'm saying is I have learned enough through studying all the different magnitudes of reality (fundamental chemistry -> biochemistry -> psychology -> earth science -> astronomy) to come to a conclusion AGAINST intelligent design.
This does not come out of a place of hate by any means. Rather, mentally wrestling with the varying aspects and magnitudes of reality have lead me to believe in a different sort of God than that mentioned in the bible.
As I said, I am NOT not spiritual. But my search for truth, fuelled with a brainful of knowledge, has really guided me away from the aspects of organized religion.
How can we be satisfied with the current segregation of Gods peoples? Why would he allow so many religions when only one is right?
Do people NEED to go to hell to satisfy the requirement for others to avoid it? In a culture-defined religion is seems so.
Plus, people can't REALLY know who goes to hell and who doesnt (although the existence of heaven and hell need to be pondered over fairly as well). How could we KNOW? Does the fact that it is written in ONE book, which has been re-translated over thousands of years, give you solace in your morality? It shouldnt..
Why would god be satisfied with our divisions and hatred? Why would God reach out to such a small few in such a primitive time to give the template of ALL LIFE, knowing how drastically changed things are now.

Whether you like it or not, most Christians are atheistic towards all other religions. Ie it is a monotheism.
So through all the religions of all the civilizations, what is so compelling about Christianity?

I look forward to hearing some intelligent banter - not random hate. Telling me why I'm wrong is not a source of offence

 

[BigFriendlyApologist]

Hey there! Nice to meet you.

Hi there,
I was born into a Christian family, and have been a follower since birth. I just graduated from a four year Biochemistry degree, and lets just say things seem impossibly complex, and regional (our planet in a virtually unlimited void), to have come about in any other way except through the course of a LONG duration of time. What I'm saying is I have learned enough through studying all the different magnitudes of reality (fundamental chemistry -> biochemistry -> psychology -> earth science -> astronomy) to come to a conclusion AGAINST intelligent design.
This does not come out of a place of hate by any means. Rather, mentally wrestling with the varying aspects and magnitudes of reality have lead me to believe in a different sort of God than that mentioned in the bible.

Ok let's start here. First, I can see where you are coming from. I myself was an atheist a while and then a deist and then a theist before coming to Christianity for much the same reasons as you - I was searching for the truth.

Now to get into the heart of the matter I am going to ask a few questions so that I can try to better answer your questions.
1) From a scientific perspective what drove you away from the Judeo-Christian view of God?
2) You say that you "believe in a different sort of God than that mentioned in the bible." What do you mean by that statement?

As I said, I am NOT not spiritual. But my search for truth, fuelled with a brainful of knowledge, has really guided me away from the aspects of organized religion.
How can we be satisfied with the current segregation of Gods peoples? Why would he allow so many religions when only one is right?
Do people NEED to go to hell to satisfy the requirement for others to avoid it? In a culture-defined religion is seems so.
Plus, people can't REALLY know who goes to hell and who doesnt (although the existence of heaven and hell need to be pondered over fairly as well). How could we KNOW? Does the fact that it is written in ONE book, which has been re-translated over thousands of years, give you solace in your morality? It shouldnt..
Why would god be satisfied with our divisions and hatred? Why would God reach out to such a small few in such a primitive time to give the template of ALL LIFE, knowing how drastically changed things are now.

Wow... a lot of questions... I will try to start answering them. Please forgive me if I miss one.

Q: How can we be satisfied with the current segregation of Gods peoples?
A: I am confused as to what you mean by this. Could you rephrase? If you mean the hate and conflict between the people of the world, I would contend that no Christian should be satisfied.

Q: Why would he allow so many religions when only one is right?
A: This comes down to free will. If an all loving God could be justified in creating free will (I would contend that this would be true) then it seems reasonable that other religions could come about even if God does not approve.

Q: Do people NEED to go to hell to satisfy the requirement for others to avoid it?
A: When Christians talk of hell, it is nothing more than a complete separation from God because of one's choices. If one rejects God, they are separated from him due to their choice. Again, see free will.

Q: Plus, people can't REALLY know who goes to hell and who doesnt (although the existence of heaven and hell need to be pondered over fairly as well). How could we KNOW?
A: No, I believe that we have no idea. It comes down to the personal relationship between God and the person. I would never claim to have such knowledge.

Q: Does the fact that it is written in ONE book, which has been re-translated over thousands of years, give you solace in your morality? It shouldnt..
A: One of the reasons I believe in God is due to the philosophical moral argument. The fact that the Judeo-Christian God lines up with the image I believe is scientifically and philosophically equivalent to the God that I have attempted to rationally deduce from science and philosophy. In addition, my historical study has continually convinced me that it is more rational to believe. It is on this bedrock of fact upon which I am confident.

Q: Why would god be satisfied with our divisions and hatred?
A: He isn't. See free will argument.

Whether you like it or not, most Christians are atheistic towards all other religions. Ie it is a monotheism.So through all the religions of all the civilizations, what is so compelling about Christianity?

I think it lines up best with the science and history. I can go in to more depth later but I am running out of time to type this all out lol

I look forward to hearing some intelligent banter - not random hate. Telling me why I'm wrong is not a source of offence

Glad we could have this discussion. Looking forward to your response. Tell me if I missed anything

 

[jonathanbchristian]

This thread is authored by a shipwrecked man who has lost the faith and become the enemy of the Church. There is much more reason to believe that everything is created. If you found a watch in the desert ticking how long do you think it would have taken random acts of the universe to make that watch? There has to be a creater. All the watch pieces would never put themselves together and tick on time. The Earth is more complex than a watch! There must be a creater. The Bible teaches to avoid false science. This thread is the reason.

 

[BigFriendlyApologist]

This thread is authored by a shipwrecked man who has lost the faith and become the enemy of the Church.

No offense sir, but in my experience, calling any nonbeliever a fool or enemy of God has never resulted in a reasonable discussion.

The author specifically noted:

I look forward to hearing some intelligent banter - not random hate.

Let us share the love of Christ and not attack this seeker's earnest search for the truth.

 

[BananaPie]

No offense sir, but in my experience, calling any nonbeliever a fool or enemy of God has never resulted in a reasonable discussion.

According to the Bible, the apostle Paul was shipwrecked 3 times, yet he did not foresake the faith. The OP simply went to college and lost faith.

So when Paul says to Timonty, "keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith", would you agree that Paul knew what he meant by "shipwreck"?

Even more interesting is the following verse (you can read on your own), which in today's polarized society it wouldn't surprise me if that verse would qualify as "hate crimes". LOL.

 

[BananaPie]

As for the OP, keep in mind that the Bible is not a Biochem textbook. The Bible is God's moral code and ethics textbook by which ALL of mankind since Adam will be judged by God on the soon approaching Judgement Day.

When normal people are thirsty, they do not drink gasoline.

When normal people run out of gasoline, they don't pump Palmolive dish soap in the vehicle's gas tank.

As the Bibles explains, "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God." If you have lost faith in Jesus Christ, that doesn't mean God ceased to exist. That just means, you lost faith.

Perhaps setting your mind back to learning directly from the Bible as you diligently did to learn college courses, then it's likely you'll gain wisdom worth keeping in preparation for the return of Jesus Christ: that's the saints' graduation day.

Start by reading the Gospel according to John. Enjoy!

 

[Ugly]

I just wonder why he would post this in a forum for teens. Maybe he's just looking to convince the 13 year olds how wrong they are? If he were serious about this it would've been in an adult forum, such as bible forum where all these debates usually take place with people old enough, and experienced enough to actually have valid responses.

 

[trust_in_the_name]

I just graduated from a four year Biochemistry degree, and lets just say things seem impossibly complex, and regional (our planet in a virtually unlimited void), to have come about in any other way except through the course of a LONG duration of time. What I'm saying is I have learned enough through studying all the different magnitudes of reality (fundamental chemistry -> biochemistry -> psychology -> earth science -> astronomy) to come to a conclusion AGAINST intelligent design.

Just curious what are you hoping to do with your degree?

 

[eugenius]

Originally Posted by galacticsuburb View Post

I just graduated from a four year Biochemistry degree, and lets just say things seem impossibly complex, and regional (our planet in a virtually unlimited void), to have come about in any other way except through the course of a LONG duration of time. What I'm saying is I have learned enough through studying all the different magnitudes of reality (fundamental chemistry -> biochemistry -> psychology -> earth science -> astronomy) to come to a conclusion AGAINST intelligent design.

Just because you disagree with the young earth and young universe theory, it is no reason to rule out the existence of a creator. The two things are unrelated. I myself believe that the universe was created over approximately 13.7 billion years. Scientific research and experiments seem to indicate that this is so. But what is wrong with the idea that 13.7 billion years ago, God set the universe in motion with the big bang?

As an engineering student I am learning about how much design there is in physics. The puzzle pieces work out too nicely. There is a lot of evidence that the universe is the result of an intelligent mind. To me the idea that the universe is the result of random chance is the most absurd thing in the world.

If you have ever created and designed anything with your own hands you know that it doesn't spontaneously or over billions of years come in to existence for no reason.

Here is something from the debate of Professor John Lennox vs Richard Dawkins.

Where the Flying Spaghetti Monster attempts to shake belief and dissuade certainty, it holds no power as an analogy for belief in God because it misses the very heart of why so many people intuitively believe. This was illustrated recently in a debate between Richard Dawkins and Christian mathematician John Lennox.

Dawkins referenced the illustration of a person walking through a forest and finding a beautiful garden. He asked, "Isn't it enough to appreciate the beauty of the garden without having to believe in invisible fairies hiding behind the flowers?" Lennox's reply demonstrated the fallacy in this analogy. He said, "Of course you wouldn't have to believe in fairies in the garden, but you would assume there was a gardener, wouldn't you?"

You would believe in a gardener even without seeing him or her because it is the only way to make sense of a garden. Otherwise, how would you distinguish between the garden and the rest of the forest you were walking through? A garden is only a garden if it was planted and cared for on purpose.

The God of the Bible is not comparable to any of the funny invisible internet deities, but He is quite like the gardener. He makes sense of the world and He assures us that we are not here by accident, but that we were created on purpose and for a purpose.