Having doubts about my own faith

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Feb 16, 2014
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#21
I'm not just saying he didn't understand Christian apologetics, I'm also saying that he didn't even understand Atheist apologetics.
This is a blind assumption. You do not know this.

When a man goes to rob a bank the first thing he does is justify it to himself, he says, "The bank has plenty of money" or "The system has treated me unfairly". When the 13 year old boy wants to do something shabby he makes a similar excuse, and in this case it just involves him convincing himself that the words of the Bible are just a fairy tale.
This is both a weak analogy and a false dichotomy.

To suggest the only reason a teenager would lose faith in God is because he wants to sin is asinine. In fact, if you stopped believing in God because you don't want to suffer the consequences, then all your'e doing is moving into a state of denial since this requires belief to do in the first place - hence, not really an atheist.

This is not such a hard thing when the media is constantly affirming man's sin, mocking God, and stating that man is nothing more than an animal.
Now you're contradicting yourself!First, you said he became an atheist because he wanted an excuse to sin. Now you're saying he was convinced there is no God.

Your argument is not only presumptuous and illogical, but it's self-contradicting.

The world is putting a constant force on people to push them away from God, all you have to do to believe the lie is stop fighting against the current.
When you say "believe the lie", it sounds to me you have this twisted idea that everyone knows these things are lies when they choose to believe in them. That's just plain stupid. Again, accepting things you know are untrue doesn't actually change your belief about them - it merely places you in a state of denial. If you honestly think everyone is choosing to live in denial, as if the truth is self evident, then you're greatly mistaken.

If you want to argue everyone is falling for these lies, choosing to believe in them because they've been convinced these "lies" are the truth, then that's a fair statement to make. But you can't argue this without contradicting yourself.

And nobody fears death these days.
Actually, most people do fear death. It's just that most people don't let this fear consume their lives.

Believing there is no God means you get to do whatever you want to do.
First of all, no it doesn't.

Second of all, people don't stop believing in God because they want to avoid going to hell. That's stupid. You have to be a total moron to think in such a way. The fact you believe this is the reason people become atheists just makes you sound thick.

If I believe I will burn in hell for my sins, why in the world would I think this problem would cease to exist if I simply "choose" not to believe in it? THAT'S STUPID. ATHEIST'S DON'T THINK LIKE THIS.

I can respect the belief of a Muslim, or a Jew, but not the Atheist. I've yet to meet an Atheist that believes in the moral law of God, but disbelieves in God himself based on evidence.
Atheists don't believe morality stems from God.

The Atheist's idea of morality, if he has one at all, is always so far from compatible with God's that it's no wonder he doesn't want to believe.
Just because our morality is not divine doesn't mean we are without morality.

The belief that there is life on other planets, for example, does not come in contact with a persons every day life because it does not come in contact with his morality; he is free to believe or disbelieve it entirely based on the evidence. But the question of God is not so simple, because one set of conclusions leads to a radically different life, and so we cannot assume that people are going to be completely rational in their reasoning.
A radically different life? The morality of atheists and Christians has tremendous overlap! Atheists, most often, believe it's wrong to steal, lie, murder, rape, kidnap, etc. Christians believe these things to be wrong because God says they're wrong. Atheists, on the other hand, understand these things to be wrong because they harm other people. The differences in morality between theists and atheists has to do with the reason behind sinful activities. For example, atheists tend to be okay with homosexuality as long as the two people engaging in sexual acts are consenting adults. Christians believe homosexuality to be a sin because God says it's wrong.

Atheists don't believe in God. So all sins stemming solely from the argument, "because God said so" aren't wrong in most atheist's eyes. However, sins that have to do with harming others or other people's property are also considered wrong to atheists, because atheists tend to believe we should not screw our neighbors.

There are many Christian's that try to follow God's law and keep on failing but continue to try. If one day one of them wanders away because he decides its too hard and that he just wants to indulge in sin he will no doubt say something like, "I just realized that the whole thing wasn't true one day and decided to stop believing, and so now I'm an Atheist".
Again, most atheists do not say this. Any atheist who does say this isn't actually an atheist. They're a theist living in a state of denial (because they still believe in God - they're just living as if they don't because the truth stresses them out).

Personally speaking, I didn't become an atheist because I wanted to sin. In fact, I didn't even want to stop believing in God when I realized I was an atheist! I stopped believing in God because deep down, I genuinely didn't believe he was real. The reason I allowed myself to stop believing is because if I continued to "believe" in God, then I would have been living in a state of denial - because deep down I would have thought him unreal.

And of course this will be followed with the belief that X is okay to do, and Y is okay to do, and Z is okay to do, etc..
That's just stupid. You either never actually talked to an atheist about their beliefs before, or you choose not to listen to them. Because most atheists do not hold this idea to be true.

What scares me is the fact that your belief in God might be the only reason you don't harm others! Now THAT'S scary.

[video=youtube;8oa_3HC8vdQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oa_3HC8vdQ[/video]

If you wish to talk about what me, Biologist, or any other atheist believes - instead of making assumption, why don't you ask us what we believe?
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#22
Read this: http://christianchat.com/christian-...sident-atheist-any-questions.html#post1497798

I am an educated, intellectual Christian that confidently asserts from both knowledge and experience that Christianity is the correct worldview to hold.

Have you surrounded yourself with genuine Christian believers that understand the Christian worldview and experience the God of the Bible? Have you adequately fulfilled, to date, the responsibility Christian us has to competently understand the Christian worldview?

If not, then you are being negligent with respect to your own salvation. Negligence never ends anywhere good. "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth." -2 Timothy 2:15.

Feel free to ask me any question that you like.


to calmador, I am a 17 year old girl who in searching of my faith. And no, I'm not an "anti Christian" person. why would I pose as someone I'm not??... I don't have an agenda...but then again, I shouldn't even have to explain myself to a person who doesn't even know me. I know who I am.......
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#23
Well stated. The one who makes a genuine choice, a step of the will, toward knowing God and pushes in is the one God reveals Himself to.

In the end, people finish with what they truly desired.


Everyone should pay close attention to this statement; notice the age he went through this "doubt". There is no way that he understood either sides of the argument at that age; he came to the convenient conclusion that there was no God, not based on any evidence or reason, but because he didn't want to believe in anything preventing him from indulging in the vices that so often come with puberty.

"You should follow what you feel" - Biologist

And follow what he felt he did.

Without any care for truth.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#24
Abandoning the God of the Bible without ever repenting from it ultimately results in a permanent soteriological loss barring you from entering heaven and results in eternal separation from God (and us).

It's not like tossing away a half eaten peanut butter sandwich as you wrongly infer.


i dont mean to be the devil's advocate, quite literally, but i left my "faith"

of course the response will be that i was never christian anyway....my response to that is if following the bible, believing jesus is the savior, and having a belief in God isn't enough then whatever.

Anyway, don't be scraed. Losing your faith doesn't kill you. I went through the same doubt when i was around 12-13, and i gave up when i found out there were others like me. You shouldnt hang on to something out of fear, you should follow what you feel
 
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Animus

Guest
#25
Personally speaking, I didn't become an atheist because I wanted to sin. In fact, I didn't even want to stop believing in God when I realized I was an atheist! I stopped believing in God because deep down, I genuinely didn't believe he was real. The reason I allowed myself to stop believing is because if I continued to "believe" in God, then I would have been living in a state of denial - because deep down I would have thought him unreal.



That's just stupid. You either never actually talked to an atheist about their beliefs before, or you choose not to listen to them. Because most atheists do not hold this idea to be true.

What scares me is the fact that your belief in God might be the only reason you don't harm others! Now THAT'S scary.
Everything you are writing is dishonest and/or naive. The only reason I've responded up to now is for the sake of people reading this thread, but it's clearly gotten to the point that anyone reading now cares as little about what you have to say next as I do. Atheist morality is a joke. They believe it's all about survival and reproduction, and that everything is just chemicals in the brain. And before you go ahead and say "You can't mathematically prove that's what I believe", it's the only logical conclusion you can come to if you believe that matter is all that there is. Atheists accept that it's wrong to steal, lie, murder, rape, insofar as our culture condemns them, but you believe that our conscience is a result of evolutionary process (which is rediculous because the weaker impulse towards risking yourself is always favoured when it comes to survival or helping the herd), and really, behind the mask you show to society, it comes down, "whatever helps me". You don't steal because you don't want to go to jail or feel guilty, and you don't kidnap because you've never wanted to. It doesn't take any kind of moral integrity to not commit a sin you've never been tempted towards. I heard a similar argument to your from Penn Jillette when he said, "When a Christian asks me 'what stops you from raping and murdering all you want to?' I respond, 'I do rape and murder all I want, and that amount is zero', what concerns me is that Christians need God not to rape and murder". The obvious problem is that he's avoided morality by simply stating that he doesn't want to do evil. The question of morality comes when you want to do something you know you shouldn't do. And then why don't you do it? Because you'll feel guilty? Because you'll get in trouble? An Atheist might say, "It's wrong to lie", but why, "Because it hurts people", so what, "and hurting people is wrong", where did you get this idea, "I don't like it when people hurt me", and why is what you like important at all? Isn't this just a personal preference? Some would say that killing is moral in certain contexts (few would object to killing Hitler), and many would agree. So is it sometimes moral to hurt someone? You cannot prove morality logically. To prove anything you have to begin with assumptions. You cannot derive what should be from what is. The only real morality must be irrational, it must be, "This is wrong because it's wrong", and it cannot be reasoned any other way. Theists do not believe wrong is wrong because God says it's wrong, they believe that God is all knowing, and that He is giving us the truth about the objective existence that is. We can come up with explanations for why wrong is wrong just as atheists might try to, but in the end, it always must come down to, "Because it's just wrong".

I know you're going to respond for this, and I apologize for the hostility, but I'm not going to continue this because it's not going to lead anywhere and I think one of us has to stop so that we don't continue to waste each other's time, and better sooner than later.
 
Feb 16, 2014
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#26
Everything you are writing is dishonest and/or naive.
OH. THE IRONY.

Atheist morality is a joke. They believe it's all about survival and reproduction, and that everything is just chemicals in the brain.
No, they don't, you ignoramus.

nd before you go ahead and say "You can't mathematically prove that's what I believe", it's the only logical conclusion you can come to if you believe that matter is all that there is.
No, it's not the only conclusion one can come to. I'm an atheist, I should know.

Atheists accept that it's wrong to steal, lie, murder, rape, insofar as our culture condemns them, but you believe that our conscience is a result of evolutionary process (which is rediculous because the weaker impulse towards risking yourself is always favoured when it comes to survival or helping the herd), and really, behind the mask you show to society, it comes down, "whatever helps me".
There's a lot that influences our morality. Evolution is one of these influences. Our society benefits when we're selfless - even to the point of putting ourselves in danger to protect others.

You're also a fool if you believe atheists only care about themselves. That's obviously not true since so many of us do give voluntarily, so many of us do put our lives on the line to help others.

You don't steal because you don't want to go to jail or feel guilty

I don't steal because I'm a good person and I sincerely believe it's wrong. I don't want to steel because my want to do good outweighs my personal greed.


and you don't kidnap because you've never wanted to. It doesn't take any kind of moral integrity to not commit a sin you've never been tempted towards.
Yes, we tend to avoid doing bad things we don't want to do. You're a genius.

I heard a similar argument to your from Penn Jillette when he said, "When a Christian asks me 'what stops you from raping and murdering all you want to?' I respond, 'I do rape and murder all I want, and that amount is zero', what concerns me is that Christians need God not to rape and murder". The obvious problem is that he's avoided morality by simply stating that he doesn't want to do evil.
He never said people should do whatever they want, that they should be allowed to rape and murder if they feel like it. He was pointing out that atheists don't need God to want to be good people.

The question of morality comes when you want to do something you know you shouldn't do. And then why don't you do it? Because you'll feel guilty? Because you'll get in trouble? An Atheist might say, "It's wrong to lie", but why, "Because it hurts people", so what, "and hurting people is wrong", where did you get this idea, "I don't like it when people hurt me", and why is what you like important at all?
You can always beg the question. I can always ask why you feel like you should love God. Do you love God because you sincerely feel that love, or do you love God because you're merely obeying him?

You then go on about morality as if God's the only source of morality, completely ignoring the reality that atheists are doing good things. Way to go.

I know you're going to respond for this, and I apologize for the hostility, but I'm not going to continue this because it's not going to lead anywhere and I think one of us has to stop so that we don't continue to waste each other's time, and better sooner than later.
I take issue with people like you because you don't know squat about atheists.

You have a hard time understanding why atheists would ever do good. Instead of asking atheists why they do good, you just assume they do good because they're selfish. Don't be a presumptuous tool.

You just stereotyped me, an atheist, as a person who only does good so I don't get in trouble. That's a load of bull. We could have a wonderful conversation. All you have to do is stop making assumptions and simply ask me what I believe. And if you don't understand the logic behind my actions and ideas, then simply accept it's something you don't understand - rather than assume it's something it's not.

Give the video I posted a watch, because it refers to people like you.