What happens to the 52 percent if Catholics in America with this sin?

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Danielle1234

Guest
#1
I'm worried about my mom and sister because they support gay marriage and I am trying to change because I don't want to sin against God. I don't think they will change their mind because my sister has written 3 books about LGBT characters and they got married. My sister supports it a lot and my mom supports it too. I read an article that said that 52 percent of Catholics in America supported gay rights in states, will they be saved? 52 percent if God's children?! My family is Catholic so idk what to think. Can my family plus the 52 percent if Amercians be saved even though we don't repent or turn away from that sin?
 
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Ugly

Guest
#2
Hmm... i'm not of the belief that Catholics are Christians to begin with.
 
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Danielle1234

Guest
#3
Catholicism is a form of Christianity.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
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#4
That's a good question. I don't believe that someone can be saved if they do not repent. In theory they could, but I think there's a practical principle behind the Bible's command to come to repentance. I think a conviction-less Christian is essentially not a Christian. If they really believed in what they professed to have faith in, then I think it follows they'd have certain convictions. That said, I don't view most Catholics as Christians anyway. I think it's possible for a confused person to call themselves a Catholic and still be a Christian. But anyone who puts their faith in communion or baptism as a necessity unto salvation isn't relying on Christ. If this is the situation in your family then it would be good to pray for them.

My earthly father once believed that baptism was necessary for salvation. But he does not any more. It took me wanting to be baptized and then him overhearing a minister talk to me about what baptism meant for him to finally start changing his mind. I am glad that he is finally relying on Christ now. Sometimes he worries about my observance of Old Testament laws, and I'm grateful for that. Because it shows that he knows Christ is the only way to God. And he is concerned that I *may* not agree with this. Even though I do.

More on topic, how one interprets or understands the Bible has no bearing on their salvation as long as they are able to accurately interpret the Gospel. Some Christians believe that the Old Testament homosexual laws have been done away with, some believe they haven't and that we also should obey the 10 commandments, some believe observing the Sabbath is important while others do not, some believe that smoking marijuana is wrong while others don't see the Bible as commenting on it. But as long as all of the above believed in the Gospel I'd say they were saved and on their way to a life with God. Hopefully God can work in their lives in the mean time and correct some of their errors in thought. The main point is what they believe concerning salvation and the Gospel. And it's my impression that most Catholics unfortunately misinterpret the Gospel or accurately interpret it but then unwittingly add things to it so that it changes in their minds without their notice.
 
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Danielle1234

Guest
#5
Thank you TheAristocat, so will my family and all the Catholics across America be saved as long as they believe in The Gospel? Will God have mercy on them?
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
26
0
#6
Thank you TheAristocat, so will my family and all the Catholics across America be saved as long as they believe in The Gospel? Will God have mercy on them?
It doesn't matter what title you're known by. If you believe in the Gospel, then you are saved. If you read the book of Galatians you'll see it talks about what some Jews were requiring of the Gentiles. The Jews believed that you needed to be circumcised first to become a Jew before you could accept the Gospel. So the Jews were putting their faith in 1. the Gospel and 2. circumcision. So the gospel these Jews believed in was different from the true Gospel. Their gospel was Christ + circumcision = eternal life. The book of Galatians addresses this problem and states that such people that believe in the Gospel + anything = eternal life really don't have eternal life because they believe in a different gospel.

Today I think the book of Galatians could be written over again and those Jews replaced with Catholicism and Mormonism and circumcision replaced with baptism. Because they believe that the Gospel + baptism = eternal life. In Galatians the people who believed in the Gospel + circumcision = eternal life were said to be circumcised off from Christ (i.e. cut off from Christ). Today I think people who believe in the Gospel + baptism = eternal life could be said to have been spiritually drowned.

It's possible that your family believes in the true Gospel and does not add anything to it, but I'm not familiar with your family. For instance, my dad believed he was a "baptist" when he believed that baptism was necessary for salvation. But baptists do not believe that. It is not in their statement of faith. Maybe you can look at a Catholic statement of faith and find out how much of it your family believes.
 
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Witness45

Guest
#7
Catholicism is a form of Christianity.
I unfortunately have to say no, it has Christian syllogisms, but it's not Christian.

A group is non-Christian when it denies the essential doctrines of the Bible:

1) The deity of Christ, which involves the Trinity
2) The resurrection of Jesus
3) Salvation by grace alone

Unfortunately Catholics deny the third doctrine, Salvation by grace alone, and are therefore non-Christian. Does that mean that no Catholics are genuinely saved? I honestly can't say, however it is possible since they obviously don't understand the true gospel and therefore don't know the true Jesus. Therefore the most important thing is converting them from Catholicism, instead of worrying about some 'belief in gay marriage' sin.

Justification is a divine act where God declares the sinner to be innocent of his sins. It is a legal action in that God declares the sinner righteous - as though he has satisfied the Law of God. This Justification is based entirely on the sacrifice of Christ by His shed blood: "...having now been justified by His blood..." (Rom. 5:9). Justification is a gift of grace (Rom. 3:24; Titus 3:7) that comes through faith (Rom. 3:28; 5:1). Christians receive Jesus (John 1:12) and put their faith-filled trust in what Jesus did on the cross (Isaiah 53:12; 1 Pet. 2:24), and in so doing are justified by God. The Bible states that justification is not by works (Rom. 3:20, 28; 4:5; Eph. 2:8,9) because our righteous deeds are filthy rags before God (Isaiah 64:6). Therefore, we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

It doesn't matter what sins your family has, we don't go to Hell because of our sin, we go to Hell because we don't trust in the shed blood of Jesus as our only means of salvation. Their Catholicism is the issue, change that, you change their gay marriage stance.
 
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Witness45

Guest
#8
I should also add that I agree with TheAristocat in saying that repentance is necessary for salvation. However it is important to note that repentance is the result of genuine salvation, not the condition of it. Or righteousness is like filthy rags to God, so no amount of our own works make us righteous. Rather, we repent and do good works simply my our new found love for God because of his grace and the shedding of his blood on our behalf. It is not by works we are saved, it is by faith, but we prove our faith based on our works. (James 2:18)
 
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Danielle1234

Guest
#9
Thank you so much TheAristocat. :) Witness45, so if my family trusts in Jesus and that He died for ALL sins and that is our gift from God they will be saved no matter about the gay marriage sin?
 
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Danielle1234

Guest
#10
Witness45, what if my family doesn't repent? Can they still be saved then?
 
Dec 9, 2013
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#11
Can I make a distinction here.

There is a difference between condoning homosexuality and supporting gay rights or gay marriage.

On one hand you saying its not a sin which is in violation of Gods law but on the other hand you are merely saying that individuals have the right to choose to sin within a secular government.

I believe christians can be the latter without sacrificing their religious convictions and without sinning themselves.
 
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kenthomas27

Guest
#12
Danielle - I think doseofreality made a lot sense if you read his message carefully. I am Catholic and have faith that I am saved by the mercy of God. God made this grace possible by the blood of His own Son Jesus. Period. That said, I also believe the world is lost and though I am convicted by my own sin, I do not feel compelled to convict others of theirs. On the contrary, I feel compassion for those lost and living in sin. For completely secular reasons, I personally believe that recognizing gay marriage for any government is kinda dumb. There are financial benefits to marriage that governments grant and in return for those benefits, a married couple is usually expected to procreate. Not a possible thing for a gay couple. For completely religious reasons, I believe God gives me choice in how to conduct my life. How should I restrict others in how to conduct theirs?
 
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Witness45

Guest
#13
Witness45, so if my family trusts in Jesus and that He died for ALL sins and that is our gift from God they will be saved no matter about the gay marriage sin? What if my family doesn't repent? Can they still be saved then?
I understand this topic is difficult for you, they're your family, and you love them. :) It's nice to know that you're truly concerned...

What your seeking is assurance in your family's salvation. Let me first of all say, it is not my place to determine whether or not anyone is genuinely saved or not, nor is it anyone's for that matter. Judas traveled with the disciples and Jesus for 3 years, and when the disciples were told by Jesus that one of them was going to betray him, each said "Surely not I Lord; Is it I?". No one suspected Judas. I'm not saying your family is a bunch of Judas's, I'm simply saying that false converts can be found even amongst what would seem like the most highly active and theologically sound people in the world. That's because only God can search the true heart and mind of man. Though we may be able to know many by the fruit of their actions, that unfortunately doesn't mean we can know all. My point in all of this is, you can gain absolute assurance of your own salvation, but assurance of others is a far more difficult task. We can't see inside the heart, but we can see their words and actions. Assurance of others may be difficult due to our inability to see into the heart, but as Jesus said "A good tree does not produce bad fruit, and a bad tree does not produce good fruit." Therefore, it is not impossible to tell if we observe their actions. I unfortunately cannot give you absolute assurance of your family's salvation, but I can help equip you with the tools needed to see between true and false conversions, and how to evangelize specifically to Roman Catholics... I'll try my best... :)

So in answering your questions above; a person is saved when they feel Godly sorrow for the sins they've committed, acknowledge that Jesus Christ as the Son of God (God incarnate; God in the flesh) and that he died on the cross for our sins, ask Jesus into their hearts to save them from their sins, and then repent and follow him as Lord of their lives...

Repentance isn't a requirement of salvation, it is the product of it. Those who say that they have accepted Jesus into their heart and don't repent, don't truly feel Godly sorrow for the sins they've committed. If they acknowledged their sins as being sinful and wrong, then they would turn away as consequence from them. Many people trip up at the acknowledgement of Jesus as Lord. They can acknowledge him as Savior, but not as Lord of their lives. Therefore they cling to Jesus out of their own selfish ambition (either to go to Heaven, overcome personal obstacles, justify themselves as righteous before men, etc.), and their hearts are not genuinely changed.

Let me put it this way, if you were to tell me you got hit by a mac truck and yet you look and act no differently then if you didn't, I wouldn't believe you. an encounter with something of that magnitude would surely cause a change... So which is bigger, a semi or God? If you truly encounter God, there will be a change. A BIG change.

Now this isn't to say that everything suddenly changes over night. Repentance is like faith in the since that it grows with time. Any true believer is constantly growing in faith as they are in repentance, so don't expect perfect repentance right away, but there should be a rather substantial change to begin with. It doesn't mean they will never fall, it just means they'll never stay down.

So in essence, it doesn't matter that they have some sin about believing in Gay marriage. It's unfortunately the prevailing belief of the time, and therefore they could really honestly believe that what they're doing is right. They may be Catholic because they truly believe it to be the right thing to be. They may very well be sincerely trying to do the right thing. It's good if they are sincere, but you can be sincerely wrong. That's why it's important that they do understand what they are doing wrong in order for them to fix their situation. They can have faith in the one true Jesus, and think that certain actions are right when they're not. But if they truly acknowledge him as Lord they won't for long...
 
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Danielle1234

Guest
#14
Thank you everyone for answering. :) doseofreality, is true second part about gay marriage not a sin? Could you explain the difference a little so I know what's a sin what is not please? Could you also explain how a Christian can become a latter?
 

Channa

Senior Member
Mar 1, 2014
381
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#15
What do you mean with support? Allow or encourage?
 

G4JC

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2011
668
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#16
Let's assess this one at a time.

1) Catholics are not the same as Evangelical/Protestant Christians. The biggest difference is mediators.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; - I Timothy 2:5

Whereas catholics pray to saints, Mary, old Popes, you name it. Jesus Christ is the only person you should be praying to and confessing your sins to. Witness45 also covered this topic rather well. Once you are born again through Jesus Christ, you must begin to filter everything you read, say, and do, through His Word. This will change your world view to one that is moral, biblical, and Christ centered.

2) If you support gay marriage you have one or two possibilities.

a) You have confused racism and sexism with the movement and do not realize it is sin due to Post-Modernists twisting of God's Word; or having never heard God's Word.

b) You know it's sin according to the Bible and disregard the warnings.

Let's take a look in either case at what God says about the issue-

And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds - II Peter 2:6-8

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. -Romans 1:27-32



In summary:
You must be born again through Jesus Christ to be saved. Therefore unfortunately most of the 52% mentioned probably aren't even saved. See Also: "I Know A Roman Catholic Who Is Saved"

Partaking in homosexuality is a sin. Supporting it is also wrong.
Ministries such as GCMWatch may be of help to those who are caught up in this lifestyle -
VIDEO: Freedom Stories | Gay Christian Movement Watch


Most importantly, read the 66 books of the Bible, pray to Jesus Christ, and ask Him to show you and your family the truth. :)
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#17
I think the Catholic Church is one of Satan's greatest achievements. I'm not saying because you are Catholic, you won't be saved. However, many people think that because they are Catholic they will be and rely on that exclusively, never knowing the truth. In all honesty I think that most likely less than 10% of any denomination is saved. Lots of people have religion but most people don't have Jesus. Even in my family, my wife and kids understand the Christian message, have said the sinners prayer but I don't see them picking up their cross and following Christ. They still want to do what they want to do, employing a "me first" attitude. They go to youth group and pray before meals, but they still want to act worldly, watching, listening and acting like their friends who don't know better. I'd say almost all of the "churched" people will suffer from lack of knowledge because the leaders were trying to fill seats instead of shepherding the flock.
 
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biscuit

Guest
#18
Thank you TheAristocat, so will my family and all the Catholics across America be saved as long as they believe in The Gospel? Will God have mercy on them?

Danielle, Please be very careful with that info because it is a form of hypocrisy. One cannot play both side of the fences and expects to have God's blessing. Either you are with God or against Him. See verse below:

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." (1 John 2:15-16)
 
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peacemakerz22

Guest
#19
To me, I was raised in the Catholic Church. I don't relate, I left when I was old enough to, due to the fact I felt the belief systems and actions taken by the church were two separate intent bi-products. This is not to offend anyone. Just my sadness I felt being part of something that you were not told the correct facts on in the beginning to try to protect you, when the confusion and truth of the matter ends up hurting you later. Sugar coating for it kids maybe is not the way to go.
 
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TaylorTG

Guest
#20
I unfortunately have to say no, it has Christian syllogisms, but it's not Christian.

A group is non-Christian when it denies the essential doctrines of the Bible:

1) The deity of Christ, which involves the Trinity
2) The resurrection of Jesus
3) Salvation by grace alone

Unfortunately Catholics deny the third doctrine, Salvation by grace alone, and are therefore non-Christian.
:mad:

To clear things up: We Catholics deny the third statement in its strictest sense: Salvation by grace alone


We believe in salvation by grace. We just don't believe that God's graces work without our cooperation.

Luke 8:16
Those who hear the word while in good soil hold it in a good heart, and bear fruit in patience.

John 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments.




I think the Catholic Church is one of Satan's greatest achievements. I'm not saying because you are Catholic, you won't be saved. However, many people think that because they are Catholic they will be and rely on that exclusively, never knowing the truth. In all honesty I think that most likely less than 10% of any denomination is saved. Lots of people have religion but most people don't have Jesus. Even in my family, my wife and kids understand the Christian message, have said the sinners prayer but I don't see them picking up their cross and following Christ. They still want to do what they want to do, employing a "me first" attitude. They go to youth group and pray before meals, but they still want to act worldly, watching, listening and acting like their friends who don't know better. I'd say almost all of the "churched" people will suffer from lack of knowledge because the leaders were trying to fill seats instead of shepherding the flock.

Grr... You'll regret passing judgement on so many others.