Help with non-belivers.

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lookwhatthelordhasdone

lookwhatthelordhasdone

Senior Member
#1
Oct 11, 2012
1,026
10
38
#1
I'm having an issue with a co-worker of mine, and it's been an on-going thing for months. He claims to be Catholic, but when we have discussions about God, he always takes the opposing side to what the Bible says. He goes on about how it was written by men, so how do we know if some of the stuff wasn't made up, then tells me to stop using faith-based responses and use logic instead. He also refuses to accept you have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior in order to be saved, and when I try to answer his questions, he calls me illogical. Now, another Christian has recently started working there and he's already gotten into two heated debates with him about God and the Bible.

Also, I want to add he is also the one who always starts these discussions.

It makes me so heated when I talk to him, because he denies everything I say and says that I have no proof. I don't know if I should try to continue to talk to him, or if it's just the Devil trying to wear me down and blow my witness, because when he talks about God in such a disrespectful and belittling way, I can't help but get angry.

I've recently started praying about what I should do, but I was wondering if anyone had any advice to give, or maybe some verses to help me? Any and all thoughts welcome. Thanks! :)
 
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J

JustAnotherUser

Guest
#2
#2
Catholics and Christians both have the same basics as to what their foundation of their belief is - and that's acknowledging that they believe in Jesus and that he's the way to get into heaven. As far as to how they go about with their salvation is a whole different story in of itself. As far as to what I was raised under while being Catholic, we weren't guaranteed salvation.

This guy seems to clearly be messing with you both. I wouldn't even think that he's considered Catholic to begin with since he's denying the existence of what he's supposed to believe or acknowledge in. Unless if he has family that are considered Catholic and he's under the title for their sake (which I wouldn't question since even if he's not, he could still mess around and tell you yes) then I would say he's an unbeliever all together and it's probably best to leave the subject alone so you wouldn't risk your jobs over it.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#3
#3
If this were happening on CC and not at work you'd label him a troll and move on and stop wasting your time. Hmm...
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#4
#4
lookwhatthelordhasdone said:
I'm having an issue with a co-worker of mine, and it's been an on-going thing for months. He claims to be Catholic, but when we have discussions about God, he always takes the opposing side to what the Bible says. He goes on about how it was written by men, so how do we know if some of the stuff wasn't made up, then tells me to stop using faith-based responses and use logic instead. He also refuses to accept you have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior in order to be saved, and when I try to answer his questions, he calls me illogical. Now, another Christian has recently started working there and he's already gotten into two heated debates with him about God and the Bible.

Also, I want to add he is also the one who always starts these discussions.

It makes me so heated when I talk to him, because he denies everything I say and says that I have no proof. I don't know if I should try to continue to talk to him, or if it's just the Devil trying to wear me down and blow my witness, because when he talks about God in such a disrespectful and belittling way, I can't help but get angry.

I've recently started praying about what I should do, but I was wondering if anyone had any advice to give, or maybe some verses to help me? Any and all thoughts welcome. Thanks! :)
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We are Christians trying to do the Lord's work in preaching & spreading the gospel ... and not to be accused of shoving it down a non-believer's throat. You did your job and he didn't accept. So move on and hopefully he will figure it out someday.
 
E

Ecclesiastik

Guest
#5
#5
Catholicism is a religion that is more based on rituals than on a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. I, and several of my brothers and sisters in Christ, have met Catholics that are very similar to your co-worker. They think the Bible is just metaphorical stories and/or out-dated.

In addition, since I live in Italy, I have also met many Catholics that curse God and Mary on a regular basis. Most of them are convinced they are saved because they have been baptized and have communion.

However, before we can deal with the hypocrisy in a religion that does not truly follow Jesus Christ we have to first search our own hearts to see if we are following Jesus Christ and aren't also in a dead religion that involves going to church, occasionally reading the Bible, and just trying to follow the rules thereof.

What makes Christianity different from every other religion is that the Holy Spirit comes into our lives and changes us. The Bible says we are new creatures if we are in Christ Jesus. He empowers us to live crucified lives and gives us a heart that loves His Word (which God also loves) and hates sin (which God also hates). So it's not just us striving to do this, do that, and maybe we will get to heaven in the end. It's laying our burden down at the feet of God.

Once we have examined ourselves and if we have found ourselves on the right path to God, then we can proceed to lecture men and women on what exactly is saving faith and the fruit thereof. Which is in Galatians 5.


God bless you.
 
E

Exoaria

Guest
#6
#6
Your job isn't to convince him of anything. Your job is to love him.
The gospel isn't logical, it's supernatural. I could point out of hundreds of Biblical errors, it doesn't cancel the metanarrative and it doesn't blotch out truth.
 
E

Ecclesiastik

Guest
#7
#7
Exoaria said:
Your job isn't to convince him of anything. Your job is to love him.
The gospel isn't logical, it's supernatural. I could point out of hundreds of Biblical errors, it doesn't cancel the metanarrative and it doesn't blotch out truth.
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If the Bible is illogical and full of errors then you should not believe it. You should not base your life on something that holds some vague, abstract notion of truth but for all real intensive purposes, is riddled with errors and false. Nor can a person truly follow Christ if they don't really believe His words. This is why religious people who believe this do not typically live Christ-filled lives. In fact, I cannot think of one person who is anything remotely like a pillar of faith who thinks that the Bible is pretty much just a metaphor. Their Christianity is like a club or a political party or a hobby. It never penetrates to their inner being and changes them into new creatures.
 
Garfield20

Garfield20

Senior Member
#8
Aug 14, 2014
249
2
18
#8
there is more then one type of Catholic
 
lookwhatthelordhasdone

lookwhatthelordhasdone

Senior Member
#9
Oct 11, 2012
1,026
10
38
#9
Thank you guys for all the advice. There are some valid points and more than anything it's definitely given me some insight on the situation
 
J

Jeshuvan

Pastor
Staff member
#10
Apr 15, 2012
221
2
0
#10
Hello,I hope 2 meet u in the rooms.The answer is easy and I have some great tools 4 uNothing is difficult 4 God Amen Jeshuvan.
 
Percepi

Percepi

Banned
#11
Feb 16, 2014
903
2
0
#11
I'm actually surprised they consider themselves Catholic if what you said is true.

If you don't wish to have these discussions with him, politely tell him you do not wish to partake in them.
 
E

Exoaria

Guest
#12
#12
Ecclesiastik said:
If the Bible is illogical and full of errors then you should not believe it. You should not base your life on something that holds some vague, abstract notion of truth but for all real intensive purposes, is riddled with errors and false. Nor can a person truly follow Christ if they don't really believe His words. This is why religious people who believe this do not typically live Christ-filled lives. In fact, I cannot think of one person who is anything remotely like a pillar of faith who thinks that the Bible is pretty much just a metaphor. Their Christianity is like a club or a political party or a hobby. It never penetrates to their inner being and changes them into new creatures.
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Metanarrative. Not metaphor. All this means is that it's written by the Holy Spirit. Whatever is in this book is there because God wanted it there and therefore we consider it as His Word. There are logical errors, that's just a fact, especially with all the different translations there's just not enough specific words in the English language to portray the original integrity of the Greek. Most of the errors are subtle and insignificant, things like one verse regarding Solomon's army as three thousand and another passage referring to the same thing as ten thousand. Most others are translational.
 
E

Ecclesiastik

Guest
#13
#13
Exoaria said:
Metanarrative. Not metaphor. All this means is that it's written by the Holy Spirit. Whatever is in this book is there because God wanted it there and therefore we consider it as His Word. There are logical errors, that's just a fact, especially with all the different translations there's just not enough specific words in the English language to portray the original integrity of the Greek. Most of the errors are subtle and insignificant, things like one verse regarding Solomon's army as three thousand and another passage referring to the same thing as ten thousand. Most others are translational.
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Hmm, the words are different that I admit. But that view still seems to be quite problematic. Did you take time to look up the things that you think are errors? Or did you heed the words of people who probably don't have the best motives without researching and ensuring their words are true?

The "errors" people used to point out used to tear me up inside. Then I started inventing ways for the Bible to still be true in my mind while being "littered" with errors. I had a view that I think might be pretty similar to your current one if I'm interpreting what you are saying correctly. However, after I started to grow in Christ, I started to realize how true and well preserved the Bible is. Every time I look up an "error" it turns out to not be an error on behalf of the Bible or God but on behalf of the logic or interpretation of the atheist or liberal Christian who suggested it.
 
PopClick

PopClick

Senior Member
#14
Aug 12, 2011
4,056
136
63
#14
It reminds me of the bible verse about if someone won't listen, then shake the dust from your feet as you leave.

It sounds like he just wants to stir things up. Nothing wrong with telling him you aren't going to argue with him anymore.
 
Brainfreeze

Brainfreeze

Banned
#15
Sep 30, 2014
2,329
102
0
#15
Nothing to lose your job over, guy claims to be catholic and believes, at same time says it's written by man, sounds like he has issues within himself about believing in Jesus...tell him some things Gods done in your life and God loves him,and to keep searching and pray on it... If he's bringing it up like that, sounds like he's itching for some truth that he's not finding, witness and move on sis... If it's angering you and your not getting any where with him, look pass and move on
 
Test_F_i_2_Luv

Test_F_i_2_Luv

Senior Member
#16
Jan 24, 2009
1,601
31
48
#16
lookwhatthelordhasdone said:
I'm having an issue with a co-worker of mine, and it's been an on-going thing for months. He claims to be Catholic, but when we have discussions about God, he always takes the opposing side to what the Bible says. He goes on about how it was written by men, so how do we know if some of the stuff wasn't made up, then tells me to stop using faith-based responses and use logic instead. He also refuses to accept you have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior in order to be saved, and when I try to answer his questions, he calls me illogical. Now, another Christian has recently started working there and he's already gotten into two heated debates with him about God and the Bible.

Also, I want to add he is also the one who always starts these discussions.

It makes me so heated when I talk to him, because he denies everything I say and says that I have no proof. I don't know if I should try to continue to talk to him, or if it's just the Devil trying to wear me down and blow my witness, because when he talks about God in such a disrespectful and belittling way, I can't help but get angry.

I've recently started praying about what I should do, but I was wondering if anyone had any advice to give, or maybe some verses to help me? Any and all thoughts welcome. Thanks! :)
Click to expand...
He claims to be Catholic Appears that he's Catholic-in-name-only. Just like there are Christians-in-name-only.

he always takes the opposing side to what the Bible says. He goes on about how it was written by men RCs believe the Bible contains words that were authoritative and written by men who were and inspired by God. Probably not RC if he rejects that.

He also refuses to accept you have to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior in order to be saved, and when I try to answer his questions, he calls me illogical. RCs believe one is born-again through infant baptism. Does he even believe that, though?

It makes me so heated when I talk to him, because he denies everything I say and says that I have no proof. I don't know if I should try to continue to talk to him, or if it's just the Devil trying to wear me down and blow my witness, because when he talks about God in such a disrespectful and belittling way, I can't help but get angry. Don't get to the point where you are casting pearls before swine. If your fruits(Gal 5:22-23) are being ruined, you might need to step back from the situation, especially if there is an audience in addition to him. With some non-believers, I've come to the conclusion that my best option is simply to love on them and treat them as humans. I stand by ground but don't intentionally argue/debate with them on issues. In short, God has to to the heart-softening on such people.

:)
 
J

Jamal

Banned
#17
Sep 29, 2014
347
1
0
#17
With most people, you can never when an argument, no matter how strong your case is. With anyone, you can never win an argument if you don't know more than the person you're arguing with. With anyone, you can never win an argument as long as you're on the defensive.

Ask him where the big bang came from. Ask him what causes the universe to expand. Ask him how the laws of physics became set. Ask him why he trusts his own reasoning.
 
MayMayMayMay

MayMayMayMay

Member
#18
Jul 28, 2010
41
0
6
#18
l It makes me so heated when I talk to him said:
Think of it as an opportunity to grow! you have to research and learn more in order to answer his arguments. Also, you will discover debating is a waste of time...calmly give the facts you have, and then agree to disagree on it, and let it all go. It's up to God's Spirit to convince. You are not responsible for his choice to believe or not believe--realizing that and beginning to believe that, will help take away the anger. And your research will take away the rest of the anger, because some of that anger is from insecurity in not knowing the answers. Get rid of the insecurity=calmness to discuss, not convince, not change.

I only know this because I've been there myself! (when you go to college or university a christian is an instant target from many profs). God bless you!
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M

MisterHarmony

Senior Member
#19
Jan 31, 2014
129
2
0
#19
I find these situations difficult also. You may keep in mind that God is giving you the words to say if you listen to Him and refrain from retaliating in the discussion through pure emotional response. If there are few words given, then few words are needed. I think God already knows who listens and who does not. The situation would suggest that you met this person to learn how to deal with such a person in your journey.
Just be careful. Sometimes the words of unresolved debate motivate our being more than it should.
You already believe in the Lord to be the truth. Rejoice in the lack of evidence, the empty tomb, for blessed are those who do not see and yet believe. (Jesus said this to Thomas after the ressurection.)
 
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