Killing as a member of the defence forces.

[Crypto]

Originally Posted by NightOwl

"Oh, hello, Mr. Robber! Have you come to steal from me? Here, take my bathrobe! You wanna rape my wife and daughters? No problem! Let me go get the Vaseline! I'll be right back. Honey! We have a guest! I need you to come downstairs!"

There is a difference between killing and murder. You're pretty, but you ain't too bright.

That is incredibly rude and disrespectful and inappropriate. Just because someone disagrees doesn't give them the right to personally attack a person. Grow up. Be more mature. If not then get off the forums.

[NightOwl]

Originally Posted by Crypto

That is incredibly rude and disrespectful and inappropriate. Just because someone disagrees doesn't give them the right to personally attack a person. Grow up. Be more mature. If not then get off the forums.

You already have a beef with me from the other thread, so I don't really care what you say. I am grown up. In fact, I'm ten years older than you are. I think that anyone who is stupid enough to not defend themselves in their own home deserves whatever they get.

[Crypto]

Originally Posted by NightOwl

You already have a beef with me from the other thread, so I don't really care what you say. I am grown up. In fact, I'm ten years older than you are. I think that anyone who is stupid enough to not defend themselves in their own home deserves whatever they get.

I rest my case since I see you were banned lol. Thank you Mods!

[Shard]

Well he might be banned though I do agree with his opinion. DO whatever it takes to defend yourself/ No one is taking me, my family, or our things without having to go through me. If killing is what it comes down to, then kiling would be necessary

[Crypto]

Originally Posted by Shard

Well he might be banned though I do agree with his opinion. DO whatever it takes to defend yourself/ No one is taking me, my family, or our things without having to go through me. If killing is what it comes down to, then kiling would be necessary

As do I, but attacking someone and insulting them is uncalled for completely.

[Shard]

that is why i attack ideas instead. Along with perceived notions of character. But never anyone directly.

[Crypto]

Originally Posted by Shard

that is why i attack ideas instead. Along with perceived notions of character. But never anyone directly.

That is the way to be ethical in debate. So kudos, even though we often disagree.

[JessLovesYahweh]

Originally Posted by NightOwl

There is a difference between killing and murder. You're pretty, but you ain't too bright.

thank you NightOwl for judging me so fast.. without knowing me first.. I know there is a difference in killing and murdering..
and I KNOW there are situations where we need to defend ourselves.. but I said before you need to ask God if it's right in certain situations.. for example the USA war.. which is a total LIE.. if you know about 9/11 truth.. you would know there is no reason for killing so many people out there.. and the military are supposed to be 'defending their land and their people' but there is NO reason for this.. cause the real terrorists are your own government!
so there you go..

of course if someone breaks into your house and tries to take ur wife and daughter you won't just help that person.. im not an idiot ok???... im sorry for not being a violent person and not liking violence..
all I said was not do it without knowing if the reasons are enough to be okay.. so better ask God first..
I dont know why that is so bad..

Peace ❤

[Crypto]

Originally Posted by JessLovesYahweh

thank you NightOwl for judging me so fast.. without knowing me first.. I know there is a difference in killing and murdering..
and I KNOW there are situations where we need to defend ourselves.. but I said before you need to ask God if it's right in certain situations.. for example the USA war.. which is a total LIE.. if you know about 9/11 truth.. you would know there is no reason for killing so many people out there.. and the military are supposed to be 'defending their land and their people' but there is NO reason for this.. cause the real terrorists are your own government!
so there you go..

of course if someone breaks into your house and tries to take ur wife and daughter you won't just help that person.. im not an idiot ok???... im sorry for not being a violent person and not liking violence..
all I said was not do it without knowing if the reasons are enough to be okay.. so better ask God first..
I dont know why that is so bad..

Peace ❤

He got banned so don't worry about him. Some people don't know how to use tact. I think even if we disagree we need to do it in a Christ honoring way. I don't believe our war on terror or 9/11 are a lie at all.

[JessLovesYahweh]

Originally Posted by Crypto

I don't believe our war on terror or 9/11 are a lie at all.

thank you, and you may not believe it, but there are truths the media won't tell you, and there are a lot of things the government is doing behind curtains..(there is a lot of evidence) but that is up to you if you wanna discover it, or just believe everything the TV tells you..as God gave us free will, and I think it's important to know the real reason behind 9/11 and the war.. because there are a ton of people dying cause of it (american soldiers as well) that are our brothers.. and they don't deserve to die like that..

but Anyway..
I thank you again, and wish you peace, love and light

[Matthew]

Originally Posted by Caff

Gday Folks,

I have been wrestling with the question of the morality of the situation, is it still murder if you seek to join the defence forces and are then required to take life in the course of your duties.

Am interested as to Biblical passages that relate and the opinions of everyone.

When I was younger I applied to join the army as an infantry soldier and this was a question I couldn't shake even though the application never worked out.

I think there's deciding what you think the bible says on the issue and then there's reconcilling yourself to it......and some people can't.....that's perfectly normal as taking a human life under any circumstance is an awful thing.

I decided at that time that if it came down too it I'd do what I had to do, if it's kill or be killed then you pull the trigger, that said despite the bravado present in some of the responses I'll say the majority of people if not the entirety would struggle with some serious emotional problems afterwards even if it occurs over a long time in the form of depression or an immediate display of self-destructive rage, circumstances aside you can't kill another human being and just feel fine about it, even if they invaded your home.

It's just a fact of life that emotions and mental health don't follow wordly logic and knowing you did what you had to do doesn't make it all O.K.
If it did the families of soldiers coming home from war wouldn't talk about how the man/woman that's come back isn't the person that left them even though they sustained no physical injuries.

On the most fundamental level it will have a deep impact even if the facts show you had no choice and did the best thing you could, I think the act of killing as a member of the defence forces/law enforcement can be justified but the question needs to be are you willing to carry that for the rest of your life.

[Crypto]

Originally Posted by JessLovesYahweh

thank you, and you may not believe it, but there are truths the media won't tell you, and there are a lot of things the government is doing behind curtains..(there is a lot of evidence) but that is up to you if you wanna discover it, or just believe everything the TV tells you..as God gave us free will, and I think it's important to know the real reason behind 9/11 and the war.. because there are a ton of people dying cause of it (american soldiers as well) that are our brothers.. and they don't deserve to die like that..

but Anyway..
I thank you again, and wish you peace, love and light

I don't believe what the TV tells me, I don't watch the news, read the newspaper, etc. I talk to those who are involved in the military. And you're welcome. Hope you have a blessed evening .

[Shard]

Originally Posted by JessLovesYahweh

im sorry for not being a violent person and not liking violence..

Dont worry about that, some people are just more/less violent it's not something to apologize for.
Its how you are made. Like I wouldnt hesitate to shoot someone who broke into my house. No questions or anything. You dont belong and since you broke in i have reason to believe you are a credible threat to my family's wellbeing. Hope it was worth it.

[ioogy]

Well i think its important to recognize that the commandments God gave to the Israelites before Christ, were to build His "nation of priests", the nation of Israel was to be the light of the world; however they fell because they would not heed the Lords commandments, they failed to completly eliminate the evil nations within the promised land, they failed to worship the Lord according to the commandments He gave to Moses, they mixed with the heathen and as a result, forfeited Gods protection of the land and of the hebrew nation... with Israel and Judah being summarily dispersed.

Christians are called such because they follow the teachings of the Christ, and as i recall, He commanded us to turn the other cheek. To love the Lord God with all our heart, mind and soul; and to love our neighbor as ourself. I find it hard to believe you love someone enough to kill them.

When the safety of our families are at stake, defending them goes without saying... but the only time killing someone to save someone makes sense is when our selfishness comes into the picture. Would you kill your children if they threatened your wife? would you kill your husband if he threatened your friend? these scenarios are no different than killing anyone for anyone. when you look at people from the eyes of Christ (which those who have accepted Christ can do because He lives in us and taught us how to see) then you will see that there are two kinds of people, those who have accepted Christ and are awake, and those who still asleep and do not know Christ. If i had to choose between the two, as horrible as the situation always is, i would rather a person in the knowledge of Christ be sacrificed than kill a lost person. if you would send someone to eternal seperation from God to satisfy your personal happiness, your desires... may the Lord have mercy on your soul, for you did not to your enemy.

i was in the military for 6 years, a great mistake of my own doing. but even in that mistake, the Lord was able to use to teach me about Himself. By the grace of the Lord i was not put into the position of being ordered to take a life... something i do not believe i would do even if ordered to do so.

So, i think to answer the OP's question, the best way to serve the Lord is to not put yourself in a position where you would be asked to take someones life.

[erika83]

Originally Posted by ioogy

Well i think its important to recognize that the commandments God gave to the Israelites before Christ, were to build His "nation of priests", the nation of Israel was to be the light of the world; however they fell because they would not heed the Lords commandments, they failed to completly eliminate the evil nations within the promised land, they failed to worship the Lord according to the commandments He gave to Moses, they mixed with the heathen and as a result, forfeited Gods protection of the land and of the hebrew nation... with Israel and Judah being summarily dispersed.

Christians are called such because they follow the teachings of the Christ, and as i recall, He commanded us to turn the other cheek. To love the Lord God with all our heart, mind and soul; and to love our neighbor as ourself. I find it hard to believe you love someone enough to kill them.

When the safety of our families are at stake, defending them goes without saying... but the only time killing someone to save someone makes sense is when our selfishness comes into the picture. Would you kill your children if they threatened your wife? would you kill your husband if he threatened your friend? these scenarios are no different than killing anyone for anyone. when you look at people from the eyes of Christ (which those who have accepted Christ can do because He lives in us and taught us how to see) then you will see that there are two kinds of people, those who have accepted Christ and are awake, and those who still asleep and do not know Christ. If i had to choose between the two, as horrible as the situation always is, i would rather a person in the knowledge of Christ be sacrificed than kill a lost person. if you would send someone to eternal seperation from God to satisfy your personal happiness, your desires... may the Lord have mercy on your soul, for you did not to your enemy.

i was in the military for 6 years, a great mistake of my own doing. but even in that mistake, the Lord was able to use to teach me about Himself. By the grace of the Lord i was not put into the position of being ordered to take a life... something i do not believe i would do even if ordered to do so.

So, i think to answer the OP's question, the best way to serve the Lord is to not put yourself in a position where you were be asked to take someones life.

Exactly my thoughts, as christians we shouldn't put ourselves in a situation where killing is required. Going to army is voluntary in most of the western countries and I wouldn't recommand any christian joining it.

[Shard]

If i woke up and my son was about to stab or shoot my wife and was old enough to know what was he was doing...YES.

Also the commandment of turn the other cheek isnt one of nonviolence and submission but rather more complicated. You should research it sometime. It means more than non-aggression.

[edge]

i believe its thou shalt not murder....for God ordered israel to kill enemies...David slayed goliath and isnt it said...he was after Gods own heart?

Murder and killing are TWO different things. Murder...has an evil intent behind it. Killing can have a justified reason behind the killing....defense of life.

Police officers and military personal kill people for the sake of perserving human life, and that isnt sin and it is justified. If it were not so then it would be sin. and God says to obey the government (unles it goes against doing the will of God). So killing people is ok as long as it is justified.

[Crypto]

Originally Posted by erika83

Going to army is voluntary in most of the western countries and I wouldn't recommand any christian joining it.

That hasn't always been true. Only in the last 35 years or so has America lifted the draft, and many countries require men to register for military service when they reach adulthood.

[erika83]

Originally Posted by Crypto

That hasn't always been true. Only in the last 35 years or so has America lifted the draft, and many countries require men to register for military service when they reach adulthood.

I know :P I was speaking about present and western countries in general. I've read a book written by a russian christian guy who was enrolled in the army but he refused to take up arms and he was involved in other work.
Anyway this is a debateable topic but I still advise everyone to stay away from situations or jobs where you have to kill eventually.

[ioogy]

Originally Posted by Shard

Also the commandment of turn the other cheek isnt one of nonviolence and submission but rather more complicated. You should research it sometime. It means more than non-aggression.

Well since you seem to have already done your homework, why don't you enlighten the rest of us?