Killing as a member of the defence forces.

[Caff]

Gday Folks,

I have been wrestling with the question of the morality of the situation, is it still murder if you seek to join the defence forces and are then required to take life in the course of your duties.

Am interested as to Biblical passages that relate and the opinions of everyone.

Cheers

[Theygaveutheirworst]

Romans 13:1-4.

Protect your land from evil forces.

[vahn]

your land lol

[nc19dude]

I have wondered that too

[Jullianna]

I was a police officer for nine years and I come from a military family. There is a great difference between murder and taking a life in self-defense or in the defense of others.

King David was a man after God's own heart according to the scriptures, but he was among the mightiest of warriors. This is how I had to reconcile it in my heart and I know this is how many christian soldiers do as well, especially when so many would not have chosen to be put in situations they find themselves in.

I hope this helps.

[JessLovesYahweh]

Sixth Commandment: Thou shalt NOT kill. (Exodus 20:13)

Killing even when it's your duty.. doesn't mean it's okay.. what would you be following? men orders or God's????

[Shard]

Originally Posted by JessLovesYahweh

Sixth Commandment: Thou shalt NOT kill. (Exodus 20:13)

Killing even when it's your duty.. doesn't mean it's okay.. what would you be following? men orders or God's????

Sadly God ordered them to kill people soon thereafter. So obviously it's cool sometimes. There were many times the israeli's fought to protect themselves. I highly doubt God meant the Sixth commandment to result in allowing ourselves to sit and get slaughtered because we cant retaliate.
1 After the death of Joshua, the Israelites asked the LORD, "Who will be the first to go up and fight for us against the Canaanites?" 2 The LORD answered, "Judah is to go; I have given the land into their hands."
3 Then the men of Judah said to the Simeonites their brothers, "Come up with us into the territory allotted to us, to fight against the Canaanites. We in turn will go with you into yours." So the Simeonites went with them.
4 When Judah attacked, the LORD gave the Canaanites and Perizzites into their hands and they struck down ten thousand men at Bezek. 5 It was there that they found Adoni-Bezek and fought against him, putting to rout the Canaanites and Perizzites. 6 Adoni-Bezek fled, but they chased him and caught him, and cut off his thumbs and big toes.
7 Then Adoni-Bezek said, "Seventy kings with their thumbs and big toes cut off have picked up scraps under my table. Now God has paid me back for what I did to them." They brought him to Jerusalem, and he died there.
8 The men of Judah attacked Jerusalem also and took it. They put the city to the sword and set it on fire.
9 After that, the men of Judah went down to fight against the Canaanites living in the hill country, the Negev and the western foothills. 10 They advanced against the Canaanites living in Hebron (formerly called Kiriath Arba) and defeated Sheshai, Ahiman and Talmai.

I'm not going to say it is right or wrong.

I however would not join the defence force, through fear of finding myself in such a situation. You have to remember God loves everyone on earth, by killing someone, for any reason, you are killing one of God's children.

[JessLovesYahweh]

You should look for testimonies of men that have killed people cause it was their duty.. and how they feel about it now, even when they were "defending" their nation or people..
and the suicide epidemic among veterans, that has been happening in america..

I personally don't think I would ever kill someone.. there are ways to protect yourself... if it's an accident as defending yourself.. it's not the same as killing someone just cause someone told you to or cause you just decided to kill them..
if God told you to kill someone then alright, God did.. but if a man tells you to do it.. it's not right..

Maybe you should ask God if the reasons to kill would be good enough for you to do..
but remember.. whatever I say is only my opinion.. peace bro

[Shard]

To be honest whether Im in the defense force or not, if it came down to me or my family dying versus killing some random home invader or something...I would have no problem pulling the trigger.

Originally Posted by Shard

To be honest whether Im in the defense force or not, if it came down to me or my family dying versus killing some random home invader or something...I would have no problem pulling the trigger.

No problem at all?

I would have to say I would pull the trigger too....but it would trouble me greatly, hence I wouldn't put myself in a position where such a situation would be likely, if you get what I mean

[Shard]

would i question whether or not to pull the trigger? no i wouldn't. Would I be wracked with guilt after the fact? Probably not.

[oopsies]

Originally Posted by Shard

would i question whether or not to pull the trigger? no i wouldn't. Would I be wracked with guilt after the fact? Probably not.

You will not know until it happens. It's like watching a couple going through divorce. At the outset, they're all brave and happy. But things usually go downhill after the fact as each has to deal with the pain in their own way.

Back on topic... I do not have an answer for the original poster but I do have something to add to your mixing pot of questions:

Matthew 26:50-54 and each of the accounts given in the other Gospels (they all differ in some way). I've read somewhere that though it was necessary for Christ to be arrested, the verses suggest that he did not condone the violence. As I am not in the armed forces, this is not something I need to deal with but perhaps it's something for you to meditate upon and to dig further.

[JessLovesYahweh]

Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing ❤ 1 Peter 3:9

[Crypto]

Originally Posted by JessLovesYahweh

Sixth Commandment: Thou shalt NOT kill. (Exodus 20:13)

Killing even when it's your duty.. doesn't mean it's okay.. what would you be following? men orders or God's????

That technically is thou shalt not murder in the Hebrew (not kill per say). That would eliminate capital punishment as well if we weren't to kill, but God ordained it in Genesis 9:6-7.

I agree with the Romans 13 statement, even God's people Israel were called to defend their land from enemies who would seek to eradicate them. We are to honor our countries.

Originally Posted by Crypto

That technically is thou shalt not murder in the Hebrew (not kill per say). That would eliminate capital punishment as well if we weren't to kill, but God ordained it in Genesis 9:6-7.

I agree with the Romans 13 statement, even God's people Israel were called to defend their land from enemies who would seek to eradicate them. We are to honor our countries.

Right. My Torah says "You must not murder."

God has condoned killing before, and God has killed before. To say killing is not allowed at all is to say God has sinned. God does not sin. this means that, if God has used killing before, then killing is not completely wrong.

God hates hands that shed innocent blood (proverbs 6:17), and that would be classified as "murder". Killing is not always murder.

That being said, I'll leave you with a list that I wrote up for my friend a while back when she asked if I could provide her with scriptures that mentioned God supporting war:

Here are some scriptures dealing with war for you:

Numbers 2 “The tribes and Leaders of Armies”

God leading the Israelites to victory:
Exodus 17:8-16 (emphasis on 16)
Numbers 21: 1-3
Numbers 31:1-11
Numbers 33:50-56
Joshua 6
Joshua 8:1-2
Joshua 11:6-9, 16-23
Joshua 12
Judges 3: 9-10
Judges 3: 28-30
Judges 4: 23-24
Judges 7:19-25 God confuses the enemy and causes the enemy to kill themselves
Judges 8-21 basically more wars fought. The basic theme of Judges is Israelites sin, God delivers them into the hands of their enemies, Israelites repent, God raises up a judge for them who will lead them to a victorious war against their enemies, Israel delivered and serves God for a time, Israelites sin again, etc.
1 Samuel 15: 2-3
1 Samuel 17: 45-47

God using war to punish Israel:
Judges 3:12-13

Israel failing in war, because they fought without God’s blessing:
Numbers 14: 39-45
Joshua 7:1-9
1 Samuel 4

Of course, God does like treaties as well:
Joshua 9

End time prophecy:
Matthew 24: 6-7

During the 7 years of tribulation:
Revelations 6:3-4, 7-8
Revelations 19:19

And finally, peace will come after the Lord has returned and defeated Satan:
Isaiah 2:2-4
Micah 4:1-3

This doesn’t prove war is good or anything, because war isn’t a good thing, but it’s something we have to deal with in a sinful world until God returns and makes things right once more.

[Crypto]

Originally Posted by lil-rush

Right. My Torah says "You must not murder."

God has condoned killing before, and God has killed before. To say killing is not allowed at all is to say God has sinned. God does not sin. this means that, if God has used killing before, then killing is not completely wrong.

God hates hands that shed innocent blood (proverbs 6:17), and that would be classified as "murder". Killing is not always murder.

That being said, I'll leave you with a list that I wrote up for my friend a while back when she asked if I could provide her with scriptures that mentioned God supporting war:

Here are some scriptures dealing with war for you:

Numbers 2 “The tribes and Leaders of Armies”

God leading the Israelites to victory:
Exodus 17:8-16 (emphasis on 16)
Numbers 21: 1-3
Numbers 31:1-11
Numbers 33:50-56
Joshua 6
Joshua 8:1-2
Joshua 11:6-9, 16-23
Joshua 12
Judges 3: 9-10
Judges 3: 28-30
Judges 4: 23-24
Judges 7:19-25 God confuses the enemy and causes the enemy to kill themselves
Judges 8-21 basically more wars fought. The basic theme of Judges is Israelites sin, God delivers them into the hands of their enemies, Israelites repent, God raises up a judge for them who will lead them to a victorious war against their enemies, Israel delivered and serves God for a time, Israelites sin again, etc.
1 Samuel 15: 2-3
1 Samuel 17: 45-47

God using war to punish Israel:
Judges 3:12-13

Israel failing in war, because they fought without God’s blessing:
Numbers 14: 39-45
Joshua 7:1-9
1 Samuel 4

Of course, God does like treaties as well:
Joshua 9

End time prophecy:
Matthew 24: 6-7

During the 7 years of tribulation:
Revelations 6:3-4, 7-8
Revelations 19:19

And finally, peace will come after the Lord has returned and defeated Satan:
Isaiah 2:2-4
Micah 4:1-3

This doesn’t prove war is good or anything, because war isn’t a good thing, but it’s something we have to deal with in a sinful world until God returns and makes things right once more.

Amen. I forgot the Battle of Armageddon in the sense of War, when Christ will be the "general". Great post.

[Jullianna]

Having to shoot another human being is a terrible position to be put in. Some can handle it, some can't. I lost a fellow officer to suicide because of the guilt from this, even though he was protecting innocent people from randomly being shot by the gunman he killed.

My father was a veteran of the Korean and Vietnam wars (Purple Heart and Bronze Star). We talked for hours at a time about the toll it took on him. Men and women who have been in deadly force situations are traumatized from it in some way. So what do we do? Not have cops (domestic soldiers) or armies?

Most people would be very surprised at what they are capable of in such situations. But, if you really don't think you could pull the trigger you should by no means be in a situation where other people are depending upon you to protect and defend. The cops/soldiers by your side need to know they can count on you while their backsides are on the line. They deserve no less.

[NightOwl]

Originally Posted by JessLovesYahweh

Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing ❤ 1 Peter 3:9

"Oh, hello, Mr. Robber! Have you come to steal from me? Here, take my bathrobe! You wanna rape my wife and daughters? No problem! Let me go get the Vaseline! I'll be right back. Honey! We have a guest! I need you to come downstairs!"

There is a difference between killing and murder. You're pretty, but you ain't too bright.

[NightOwl]

Isaiah 37:36 [NIV]; Then the angel of the LORD went out and put to death a hundred and eighty-five thousand men in the Assyrian camp. When the people got up the next morning--there were all the dead bodies!

So God killed a hundred and eighty-five thousand men overnight. Does that mean that God broke His own commandment? No. Why? Because there is a difference between killing and murder. You can read the whole chapter if you want to know why God did it.

Isaiah 37 - Passage*Lookup - New International Version - BibleGateway.com