Gay Marriage

[bobie]

So a certain judge just overturned Prop 8 in California! so that means there's a chance that gay marriage might get legalized again!

Honestly i don't really care what gay people do as i am in no position to judge them so i guess its better for us non homo to let them be! but at the same time as a christian, i was thought that marriage is only between a man and a woman so im gonna have to say no on gay marriage!

anyway this is something that we should really look at! they said that anybody has to right to marry whoever they want and opposing against the idea is unethical since they claim that gay people are considered as a minority! so here's the part that i am worried about! if we allow gay people to marry then what's next? sibling marriage? father and daughter marriage? i mean come on!

Hi Bobie,

Your post struck me as interesting because I live in Oakland, CA, which is just across the bay from San Francisco, which happens to be the gay male capital of the USA. The San Francisco bay area is a very tolerant place and the overturning of Proposition 8 is big news around here.

I'm privileged to say that homosexuality has never been a temptation of mine. While i've struggled with all manner of sexual sins, I've never desired the sexual company of another man. For that I feel very grateful. I would never so much as assume that I am better than those who struggle with these aforementioned temptations, especially since one of my closest friends, who is also a strong Christian, and who is, in an Earthly sense, responsible for my conversion to Christianity, also struggles with homosexual temptation.

I think that each of us is given a unique set of circumstances which we are meant to navigate with God's grace, and our success in doing so is wholly reliant upon God's grace. That being said, unless there is a grave mistranslation of God's word, homosexuality is indeed forbidden and is a sin.

However, I also believe that we live in a world that, by the grace of God, and by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, no longer ruled by charismatic Prophets or Judges that give authority from God, but by the grace and forgiveness of Jesus Christ. While the USA was largely founded by men with faith in Christ's death and resurrection, my country does not necessarily imbue the values of the Christian faith. Instead, it values freedom -- fertile ground in which faith in Christ (and in other faiths) is made possible, but not compulsory.

Ultimately, what we found was that the freedom to worship (or not to) was central to humankind, when living devoid of the theocratic system in which God's Word is made manifest by prophets and judges, and that the next best thing was the rule of law according to what could be tested. This is where we got the United States Constitution, and the rules of law that govern the land. The Constitution is what legalizes contracts between consenting adults, and is therefore sets a precedence for heterosexual unions of all kinds, as well as those of a homosexual nature.

Ultimately, I believe that the Constitution protects these people, as it should, because the highest form of compassion is freedom, even when it allows for people to do the wrong thing.

[AliceOfLegend]

Gay marriage is not going to lead to incest. I don't know where people get those idiotic ideas.

I am happy that Prop 8 was decided to be unconstitutional, because it is.

Honestly, if you don't like same sex marriage, thats fine, you don't have to get married to the same sex.

all the "Save Marriage" campaigns kinda make me giggle, what are we saving it from? Straight people can barely get it right.

[Shard]

Not too mention, its not like them getting married is going to hurt you.

[AliceOfLegend]

Originally Posted by Shard

Not too mention, its not like them getting married is going to hurt you.

Exactly!!

I had a girlfriend for two years, and you wouldn't believe some of the things that were said to us.

I shouldn't call myself a Christian and God doesn't love me, my "homosexual urges" are demons inside me.



also, I've been called the devils daughter.

oh and I'm apparently a pervert. Because perverts, pedophiles and homosexuals are one in the same.

its like honestly people, you can't catch pansexuality, bisexuality, homosexuality or any other sexuality for that matter.

[AsifinPassing]

I'm in no place to judge, and won't. However, I do not remain silent on these issues, but rather post what I know scripture to say.
If you take offense to this, I am sorry, that was not my intent, but the truth in love is. I am still learning as are we all.

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. -Romans 1:18-32

1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'I am the LORD your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. I am the LORD.
6 " 'No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD.

7 " 'Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your father's wife; that would dishonor your father.

9 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

10 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 " 'Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father's wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

12 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative.

13 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your mother's sister, because she is your mother's close relative.

14 " 'Do not dishonor your father's brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.

15 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son's wife; do not have relations with her.

16 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your brother's wife; that would dishonor your brother.

17 " 'Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 " 'Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

19 " 'Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

20 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor's wife and defile yourself with her.

21 " 'Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed [a] to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.

22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

23 " 'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

24 " 'Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

29 " 'Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.' " -Leviticus 18

Now, I am sure there are other passages which may deal with these issues, but these chapters, one from Romans and one from Leviticus, seem to specifically speak against types of sexuality. I'm not saying God doesn't love you. I'm not saying you have a demon. I'm not really trying to say anything negative to you at all. I would just encourage you to read these passages and think carefully about the choices you make. The forgiveness of sins does not give us the right to continue living in them.

I bet it would be in some ways frightening to have thoughts or feelings about the same sex. Many people may applaud you for it, and others condemn you for it. In either case, I am not one of them. For I try to neither accept nor condemn, for it is not my place. What I will ask and encourage of you though, is to seek God. In all things, put God before yourself, and he will make your paths straight. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness.

Originally Posted by AliceOfLegend

Gay marriage is not going to lead to incest. I don't know where people get those idiotic ideas.

A few short years before gay marriage was a reality in my country, it was seen as idiotic worldwide. I'd say that the normalization of every idiotic sexual practise you can name is a few charismatic leaders away now.

Ultimately, the argument for Gay marriage is one against federal prejudice.

Christian Marriage will always be between Man and Woman. That will never change.
But Federal marriage is a wholly secular institution. Therefore, there's no reason any Christian should oppose a movement which makes sense on a secular level within a secular institution. Heterosexual marriages are quite often shams anyway, so there isn't much to lose.

Christian Marriage is under no threat, as it is its own institution, related to but distinctively separate from the bureaucratic paperwork and tax benefits which seem to define federal marriage.

Please, consider this next time it comes to your ballot.

[Shard]

Originally Posted by OnDMT

Ultimately, the argument for Gay marriage is one against federal prejudice.

Christian Marriage will always be between Man and Woman. That will never change.
But Federal marriage is a wholly secular institution. Therefore, there's no reason any Christian should oppose a movement which makes sense on a secular level within a secular institution. Heterosexual marriages are quite often shams anyway, so there isn't much to lose.

Christian Marriage is under no threat, as it is its own institution, related to but distinctively separate from the bureaucratic paperwork and tax benefits which seem to define federal marriage.

Please, consider this next time it comes to your ballot.

Agreed completely. Its not like churches on being forced to marry homosexual couples. If they wnt to go in front of a judge and get married? well then congratulations. I have friends that are gay at school and dont love them any less for their decisions. They know its an abomination...they just don't care.

[lightbliss]

We can't stop everyone from doing what they want to do.

There will always be something in opposition to the Word taking place in the world.

We should focus on our life with God/Christ.


1 John 5:19
We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one

John 14:19
A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also

2 Corinthians 5:16
Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer.

1 John 4:5
They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them.

[AsifinPassing]

In reference to the aforementioned antidisestablishmentarianism (separation of church and state), I can see your point of saying that the federal government is a secular institution, but in reference to remembering when you cast your ballot, it wasn't always. America was founded as a Christian nation, and should we try to take God out of it as a system , we are doomed to failure. I believe our forefathers would weep at many of the things we have done and are doing, and they would not stand by and let it happen.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke

[Jullianna]

AsifinPassing,

Thank you for not following the let's-all-keep-our-mouths-shut-and-be-politically-correct nonsense and speaking the truth in love. I can't believe that there would even be a question about this among literate believers. Maybe they've simply chosen to ignore the scriptures indicating that homosexuality is an abomination unto the Lord.

Having said that, I have friends and have had a lot of co-workers who were gay. When the topic has come up with them, 90% of them said that they believed they were homosexuals due to emotional trauma. I've also had friends and co-workers who were liars, adulterers, etc.... Sin is sin and I don't like to see a group of people singled out by haters. I also hate seeing the hurt that such sin brings into their lives.

We've even had young people in our youth group who were abstaining one minute, yet gay the next...for about a week...then they're abstaining again. Seems like saying you're gay is the new fad sometimes. Or maybe they have the idea that homosexual relations aren't sex??? Who knows...

God is the righteous judge of all and He has made His position clear regarding the matter, so our opinions really don't count for much. Thanks again for sharing His truth, sister Those who disagree will have to take it up with Him.

[Shard]

Originally Posted by AsifinPassing

In reference to the aforementioned antidisestablishmentarianism (separation of church and state), I can see your point of saying that the federal government is a secular institution, but in reference to remembering when you cast your ballot, it wasn't always. America was founded as a Christian nation, and should we try to take God out of it as a system , we are doomed to failure. I believe our forefathers would weep at many of the things we have done and are doing, and they would not stand by and let it happen.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
-Edmund Burke

You do realize that the majority of the founding fathers were not christians but deists right?

[AsifinPassing]

Actually Shard, if you study their lives...in their Deism, they were more Christian than most today who call themselves Christian.

And thanks Jullianna, but there was a part when you said sister...and I'm a guy. Lol. I think the pic is throwing people off.

YAY FOR THE GAYS!!! YAAAAHOOOOOOOO!!!

[AliceOfLegend]

Originally Posted by Jullianna

AsifinPassing,

Thank you for not following the let's-all-keep-our-mouths-shut-and-be-politically-correct nonsense and speaking the truth in love. I can't believe that there would even be a question about this among literate believers. Maybe they've simply chosen to ignore the scriptures indicating that homosexuality is an abomination unto the Lord.

Having said that, I have friends and have had a lot of co-workers who were gay. When the topic has come up with them, 90% of them said that they believed they were homosexuals due to emotional trauma. I've also had friends and co-workers who were liars, adulterers, etc.... Sin is sin and I don't like to see a group of people singled out by haters. I also hate seeing the hurt that such sin brings into their lives.

We've even had young people in our youth group who were abstaining one minute, yet gay the next...for about a week...then they're abstaining again. Seems like saying you're gay is the new fad sometimes. Or maybe they have the idea that homosexual relations aren't sex??? Who knows...

God is the righteous judge of all and He has made His position clear regarding the matter, so our opinions really don't count for much. Thanks again for sharing His truth, sister Those who disagree will have to take it up with Him.

You do know that just because your gay doesn't mean you cant abstain, you don't have to be having sex to be gay, bi , pan, or transgendered.

[vahn]

Originally Posted by AliceOfLegend

You do know that just because your gay doesn't mean you cant abstain, you don't have to be having sex to be gay, bi , pan, or transgendered.

Point is, God didn't create you that way.

[AliceOfLegend]

Sorry but I believe he did. And that's where I stand on the topic, and my thoughts on it are not changing.

[vahn]

That's like saying God created you to be a liar or a murderer.

[LiLPoP]

prop 8 overturned, AMEN