feminism and Christianity

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lexieydoodle

Guest
#1
I've noticed at bible study that my teacher seems to have pretty strict gender roles. I was wondering if this is just part of her personality or if it is an important part of Christianity.
 
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thimsrebma

Guest
#2
I think that depends on what she was saying. What type of church is it?
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#3
Only set gender roles I am aware of deal with church leadership and of course the ephesians 5 stuff.
 

Stuey

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2009
892
4
18
#5
1 Cor 14 has some stuff on it.

- will post a longer response here when I have some time. :)
 
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lexieydoodle

Guest
#6
there non denominational I think? we were re-reading genesis. it was something about how eve's desire would always be for her husband and I turned to my teacher and I was like.....seriously? She was saying she felt that it was natural for women to be more submissive to men and that you can see it in our society. I don't know it was the first time I had been offended in a bible study. I am willing to give up a lot for God but my woman's lib attitude is here to stay

im oging to go read those other passages

<3 lexiey
 

Stuey

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2009
892
4
18
#7
From what I've heard that hebrew word for desire is not actually the word desire as we understand it - More like 'control', sort of a desire to control your husband. This is what I've been taught anyway.
 
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thimsrebma

Guest
#8
there non denominational I think? we were re-reading genesis. it was something about how eve's desire would always be for her husband and I turned to my teacher and I was like.....seriously? She was saying she felt that it was natural for women to be more submissive to men and that you can see it in our society. I don't know it was the first time I had been offended in a bible study. I am willing to give up a lot for God but my woman's lib attitude is here to stay

im oging to go read those other passages

<3 lexiey
A couple of years ago I read a book called Liberated Through Submission: God's Design for freedom in All relationships by P.B. Wilson. It was great. I think this book will help you to understand the difference between what God sees as submission and what the world sees as submission. Many people view submissive women as door mats or people who have no voice. But thats just not true. Those women are often abused and subservient to their husbands. However, the submissive woman that God calls us to be is someone who accepts her husbands say as final. The important thing is choosing a Godly man who respects your opinions and listens to your concerns and considers them.
 

Stuey

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2009
892
4
18
#9
Ok here is my longer response.

As Christians we believe that the word of god is infallible, as a result of this we need to listen to what the bible says. The bible does need to be read in its context, however, and this is the case for the old testament as well as the new testament. Context does not allow us to write off things in the bible, however, and we must be careful to read what the bible says, as opposed to what we want it to say.

Here are a few passages on the role of Women in the Church, I apologise if they are a bit long - I think it will be helpful for my explanation.

Ephesians 5:22-33

22 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it. Just as Christ does the church - 30 for we are members of his body. 31 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32 This is a profound mystery - but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

1 Peter 3

1 Wives, in the same way submit yourselves to your own husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, 2 when they see the purity and reverence of your lives. 3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. 4 Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. 5 For this is the way the holy women of the past who put their hope in God used to adorn themselves. They submitted themselves to their own husbands, 6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her lord. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.
7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.


1 Cor 14


26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and to God. 29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.
34 Women[f] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.[g]
36 Or did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anyone thinks they are a prophet or otherwise gifted by the Spirit, let them acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord’s command. 38 But if anyone ignores this, they will themselves be ignored.[h]
39 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

Titus 2

Doing Good for the Sake of the Gospel

1 You, however, must teach what is appropriate to sound doctrine. 2 Teach the older men to be temperate, worthy of respect, self-controlled, and sound in faith, in love and in endurance. 3 Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4 Then they can urge the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5 to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.
6 Similarly, encourage the young men to be self-controlled. 7 In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness 8 and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.
9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, 10 and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.
11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
15 These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.



1 Timothy 2


8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.


There are a few different circumstances which are probably helpful to delineate. We can't always apply how women should act in one context to how they should act in another context.

The role of Women in marriage.

It is important to note the type of submission that is asked for here, I think people often see any form of submission as an unloving, dominating kind of submission. A wife submitting to her husband, however, should not be. "24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her." This here shows what the submission should look like. - It should be as we submit to Christ, the role of the husband is to love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. This is laying down your life for your wife, it isn't a dominating form of leadership - beating her into submission, but it is a loving form of leadership, giving up your life to serve her.

The role of Women in the church. I think it is fairly important to address this passage as it is often bandied around. :)

"34 Women[f] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.[g]"

This is a particularly tricky verse to understand but I think that it makes sense if we know the context in which it was written. - I have been told by my church that at this time the Corinthian church had a problem with the women talking in church - while the sermon and other important things were happening. Possibly shouting questions across the congregation - women at this time were mostly uneducated we should remember. So is this verse saying that women should never speak in church? Well no, I don't think so, if we know the context in which it was written, as well as the context of the verse in the passage. - It is in a section on Orderly Worship - how to control the church so that people may learn in it, it just doesn't appear like it is. Also, if we look at the last verse, "Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way." Paul actually tells women to be eager to prophesy, and earlier on in the passage it is said that those who were prophesying were to speak up at the front of the church.

As for the role of women in teaching at the church.

11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

I'll be honest I'm not an expert on this verse, and I'm quite puzzled by what it says about women being saved through childbearing, could possibly be a reference to something in the old testament. It does say, however, that Paul does not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man. To me this suggests that it is not good for a woman to be teaching in church when there is a mixed sex congregation. I believe there are other new testament verses to support this but I am not entirely sure. I do know that almost, if not all accounts of teachers in the church are men, however, and to me this suggests that it should be men that are teaching in mixed congregations and in the highest places of authority in the church. This doesn't mean that women should not be teachers or pastors at all, however, and there are many opportunities for women to teach and pastor - these opportunities, will, however, be for pastoring and teaching women in the church. This is the general view of my church and the bible seems to support it.


The role of Women in society.

I think the role of women in society is a bit different. I don't have a heap of bible quotes to help but I think these few help.


3 Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as elaborate hairstyles and the wearing of gold jewelry or fine clothes. 4 Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God’s sight. 5 - This is referring to wives.

Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4

9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.

The character that god views as valuable in a woman seems to be things like peacefulness, modesty, good deeds and a gentle and quiet spirit (I don't think this necessarily means vocally quiet). Mostly the things that God tells all Christians to be. There are probably more verses out there and if anyone has them it would be great.


Overall

Essentially what the bible says is that Men and Women are equal, but different. Don't let anyone say that women are worth less than men, or are less important, this is simply not what the bible teaches. We do, however, have different roles in life.

7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers. - 1 Pet 3 -

This verse here tells us that we are both heirs to the gracious gift of life. - This is talking about eternal life here. Also the word partner there might be better translated (and is in several other common bible versions, I had a look) as the word vessel. - Weaker in body but in no way less valuable or of less importance. My pastor used an analogy of something similar to a husband being a schooner glass and a girl being a fine wine glass. :) It is kind of interesting the reason given for this as well 'so that nothing will hinder your prayers'.

Given that we are both heirs in the gift of eternal life, we are equal in importance. :) I believe the rest of the bible supports this.

I think these verses also give us a decent hint as to what to look for in a marriage partner, the wife should look for someone who will lay down their life for them and who they can submit to while the husband should be looking for someone who will submit to him, allow him to teach the word and lead.

Hope this helps, if you have any questions feel free to ask them.

God bless

Stuey
 
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lexieydoodle

Guest
#10
hmmmm...well thank you for writing out those bible versus. That makes a lot of sense form what my teacher has said on gender issues. Maybe thimsrebma is right and my big opposition is coming from not understanding the christian meaning of submission.

I'm a natural leader and so I tend to take that posisiton in my relationships. I'm a really good researcher and synthesizer of information so I;m usually the one to plan trips, dates, ectera. Is that considered not submitting?
 
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thimsrebma

Guest
#11
hmmmm...well thank you for writing out those bible versus. That makes a lot of sense form what my teacher has said on gender issues. Maybe thimsrebma is right and my big opposition is coming from not understanding the christian meaning of submission.

I'm a natural leader and so I tend to take that posisiton in my relationships. I'm a really good researcher and synthesizer of information so I;m usually the one to plan trips, dates, ectera. Is that considered not submitting?
I don;t think that is not submitting. If you are good at that then go for it. God may give you a man that needs the qualities of a well organized planner. Most men need that. hahaha.

Submission is not a man bossing you around. If your husband loves you like he is supposed to then he will consider your view point on things. If he decides to go his way support his decision with out rebutal. And when it fails, cause you are more than likely gonna be right, hehehe, just comfort him without saying "i told you so" and he will more than likely learn his lesson. I'm joking y'all.:D

But interestingly enough I know some awesome older couples who are so fun to be around and most of the time the man goes far above and beyond the call of duty to keep the wife happy, listening to what she has to say and catering to her needs and keeping quiet when she gives him the eye. It's so super fantastic.

It almost seems as if God's design for relationships is that a man loves his wife so much that she can think, say, do whatever she wants and he'll take it only until she gets a little too demanding and outrageous then he has to put his foot down and in return she will giveup her will for a moment and then once more and again his love for her will be so great he'll let her do anything she wants.
 
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lexieydoodle

Guest
#12
I don;t think that is not submitting. If you are good at that then go for it. God may give you a man that needs the qualities of a well organized planner. Most men need that. hahaha.

Submission is not a man bossing you around. If your husband loves you like he is supposed to then he will consider your view point on things. If he decides to go his way support his decision with out rebutal. And when it fails, cause you are more than likely gonna be right, hehehe, just comfort him without saying "i told you so" and he will more than likely learn his lesson. I'm joking y'all.:D

But interestingly enough I know some awesome older couples who are so fun to be around and most of the time the man goes far above and beyond the call of duty to keep the wife happy, listening to what she has to say and catering to her needs and keeping quiet when she gives him the eye. It's so super fantastic.

It almost seems as if God's design for relationships is that a man loves his wife so much that she can think, say, do whatever she wants and he'll take it only until she gets a little too demanding and outrageous then he has to put his foot down and in return she will giveup her will for a moment and then once more and again his love for her will be so great he'll let her do anything she wants.
thank you, I don't know its still not sitting right with me, I just don't see why the man should have the last word on matters just because he is man. I just don't see this as how I approach relationships at all, I want them to be equal. WHich means depending on the situation he may have the last word I might have hte last word. If he is having a bad day or going through a rough patch I am going to put his needs before mine, be protevtive and nutruring.

I admit I have VERY strong femmenist biases , I guess this is somehting I am just going to have to talk to more chrisitans about and (try my absolute best) to approach iwht an open mind.
 
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thimsrebma

Guest
#13
thank you, I don't know its still not sitting right with me, I just don't see why the man should have the last word on matters just because he is man. I just don't see this as how I approach relationships at all, I want them to be equal. WHich means depending on the situation he may have the last word I might have hte last word. If he is having a bad day or going through a rough patch I am going to put his needs before mine, be protevtive and nutruring.

I admit I have VERY strong femmenist biases , I guess this is somehting I am just going to have to talk to more chrisitans about and (try my absolute best) to approach iwht an open mind.
Talking to other Christians is good but talking to God is better. Because we are not perfect and sometimes our will gets in the way of His, it is always a good choice to allow Him to speak into your heart about the issues where we lack understanding. His knowledge is infinite and His word is infalible.
 
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living4Him93

Guest
#14
I would just like to point out that Jesus was basically the biggest feminist ever. don't get slam me yet.

think about it. He was telling people to love their wives, care for them, and treat them with respect in a time where wives and women in general were viewed as property.

i could give a bunch of verses, but i am way too tired :p
 
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perdonato

Guest
#15
[I apologize in advance for the length of this!!!]

This thread caught my eye because it is an ongoing joke in my life that I'm a feminist. I work with a campus ministry with four men. We all have different things we focus on and one of mine is the women's ministry... for obvious reasons. Nonetheless, I believe Christian women have somehow been instilled with the idea that our purpose is to go to a Christian school, marry a Christian man and then raise the kids.

...While I think this is a charming idea (and would love to have it happen in my own life) I resolved in high school not to date because I knew I was moving onto bigger and better things. That alone should say I'm a little different... even so, when people would ask me why I wasn't dating or finding my husband (because in the church in which I grew up it was common to get married at 18) I would say, "I want to learn to stand on my own two feet with God as my foundation before I learn to lean on someone else." Everyone I knew was only familiar with leaning on others and I didn't like that.

I believe somewhere along the lines there has been a disconnect, for whatever reason, that prevents women from seeing their true potential and strengths with their identity in Jesus Christ. So... all of this said, people laugh about how I'm a feminist and make jokes, but I was raised in a church where women had no leadership roles beyond teaching other women and children. I was fine with this but it didn't entirely set right. As Stuey posted all of those verses, the church in which I grew up really applied them. I can respect this because they were consistent. However, before I left for college I started searching more for what was really going on. When I got to college I e-mailed all of the guys I'd grown up with and asked them the same questions I asked a guy who'd been asking me to join leadership. Much to my surprise, all of their answers were matching.

We forget that Paul is often responding to a letter that was written to him. We have no idea what the church wrote to him on. Stuey mentioned that perhaps it was women talking too much or something but what I learned in my study with all of these men was that the churches Paul was writing to were in places where cults were the primary religious acts before the churches were introduced. Many of the people that joined the church were straight out of the cults and many of the cult activities were lead by women - primarily a lot of sexual acts. As we all know, even now, it's difficult to completely cut off an old habit when we make a change in our life. Namely, when one first becomes a Christian it is unlikely they will be able to avoid all of the sins they were surrounded in prior. Paul's normal response in any circumstances - not just with the women - is essentially, "If you don't want to get stung, don't go near the bee hive." His reaction, then, is "be silent all together."

After this study I prayed a lot and eventually joined leadership. I am, however, still very uncomfortable in a place where the woman is the HEAD of the church. I do believe there is enough evidence to say that is a little too far. Or perhaps it's just the background I have... Meh, I'm open to some clarification if anybody wants to provide some.

On the lines of defining submissive. I think Thimsrebma is onto something. One thing I told the national director for the ministry with which I work was how I am not sure I want to go to seminary because when I do something I do it the best and I feel like I'd be striving to be so good that I might get ahead of the man who is supposed to be the leader... and become inaccessible to him. (As I said before, I do want a family and a man to be at the center of that whom I can respect!) When I used the word, "leader," I was questioned, "What does that mean? Does that mean he tells you when you have a quiet time or when to pray or what to pray?" Automatically I saw the flaw. I've revamped my phrasing to "teammate" because as thimsrebma was saying a husband should consider and listen to the things his wive is saying... but, just as God listens to our requests in prayers, a good husband, after prayer, may still say, "no," and we are called to be okay with that.

In the end, who are we glorifying? When we get too caught up in the power of women or the power of man we lose sight of what is truly important: the glorification and honoring of our wonderful and loving God.

Okay... I'll step off of my soap box now. Yikes... Haha.

(and yes, God is the one with the answers... not people.)
 

Stuey

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2009
892
4
18
#16
Hmmm, nice posts guys, think I agree with most of it.

The Fall of Man
1Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, &#8220;Did God really say, &#8216;You must not eat from any tree in the garden&#8217;?&#8221;
2The woman said to the serpent, &#8220;We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3but God did say, &#8216;You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.&#8217;&#8221;
4&#8220;You will not surely die,&#8221; the serpent said to the woman. 5&#8220;For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.&#8221;
6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.
8Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9But the Lord God called to the man, &#8220;Where are you?&#8221;
10He answered, &#8220;I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.&#8221;
11And he said, &#8220;Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?&#8221;
12The man said, &#8220;The woman you put here with me&#8212;she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.&#8221;
13Then the Lord God said to the woman, &#8220;What is this you have done?&#8221;
The woman said, &#8220;The serpent deceived me, and I ate.&#8221;
14So the Lord God said to the serpent, &#8220;Because you have done this,
&#8220;Cursed are you above all the livestock
and all the wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
15And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspringa and hers;
he will crushb your head,
and you will strike his heel.&#8221;
16To the woman he said,
&#8220;I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing;
with pain you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.&#8221;
17To Adam he said, &#8220;Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, &#8216;You must not eat of it,&#8217;
&#8220;Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat of it
all the days of your life.
18It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.&#8221;
20Adamc named his wife Eve,d because she would become the mother of all the living.
21The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22And the Lord God said, &#8220;The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.&#8221; 23So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24After he drove the man out, he placed on the east sidee of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.


Was thinking with that women getting saved through childbearing, with the 'strike his heal and you crush his head' feels a bit weak to me though, and the tense is wrong so I'm thinking not.



Any thoughts?
 
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Ugly

Guest
#17
womens lib/feminism is ultimately a secular world view & you are proudly proclaiming you refuse to give it up. while as a public face these beliefs claim 'equality for genders' the reality is they are more interested in female domination over men. there are many women who were feminists & now realize that while some good has come of it, there is also a lot of bad. really its just about power. also they typically support many non-traditional Christian stances, such as on abortion, & gay/lesbian.
i will not support any womens lib/feminist organization or mindset. i will, however, support the rights of women fairly & respectfully... the same way women should be treating men. neither gender should be dominating the other, because ultimately God is the boss.

don't think i worded myself well, but not feeling well, either. so the best i could do for now.
 
May 4, 2011
627
3
0
#18
I never considered feminism to be about women dominating men. They want equality, and while I admit there are some feminist groups who want to put men in cages and use them as sperm donars there also some men that think women are good for nothing but procreation and cleaning blah blah. Women and men should be veiwed as equals men cannot survive without women and women cannot survive without men.
 
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lexieydoodle

Guest
#19
I never considered feminism to be about women dominating men. They want equality, and while I admit there are some feminist groups who want to put men in cages and use them as sperm donars there also some men that think women are good for nothing but procreation and cleaning blah blah. Women and men should be veiwed as equals men cannot survive without women and women cannot survive without men.
well said! I am a very proud femminist, and am honored to have met so many strong men and women while advocating fro gender equality. Just like any orgnaization there is corruption and nut-jobs in the movement but it is unfair to group such a diverse movement with so many diffrent ways of thinking together; it would be simmilar to looking at the KKK or the Westborow Baptist church and judging chrisitans by such anomolies.

None of the femminists I fight for liberaiton with think that women should dominate men. It is indeed mostly a secular stance, but there are lots of secualr issues that need to be dealt with; violence to women, sexual objectficaiton, the porn industry, and the pay diffrence just to list a few.
 
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AnandaHya

Guest
#20
there non denominational I think? we were re-reading genesis. it was something about how eve's desire would always be for her husband and I turned to my teacher and I was like.....seriously? She was saying she felt that it was natural for women to be more submissive to men and that you can see it in our society. I don't know it was the first time I had been offended in a bible study. I am willing to give up a lot for God but my woman's lib attitude is here to stay

im oging to go read those other passages

<3 lexiey
lol its not natural for women to be submissive to men that is why God told us we should do it for our husband, but people forget this verse WAY TOO OFTEN when talking about gender roles: (you give your body over to your spouse, its mutual not just the woman submitting to the man but the man submitting to the woman)


1 Corinthians 7:3-5 (New King James Version)

3 Let the husband render to his wife the affection due her, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.