Why I Hate Christian Music

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astro

Guest
#21
@Rainacorn

Your post was a bit TL;DR and I want my money back but can pretty much agree with your complaints against Christian music:

- uninspired copycats (not unique to the christian scene)
- unholy lifestyles
- a holy cow within Christendom

So yeah, the whole holier-than-thou "no secular music" crowd is oblivious to what really happens, but I don't think that shooting the messenger is going to help. The state of gospel music is just a reflection of Christendom at large; you'll recognize the tree from the fruits.
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#22
Rainacorn: Umm.. totally off point to what i was saying. 100% off. The actual point was whether or not Christian musicians have to water down the Gospel in order to become well known. Thanks for playing though, you still get a consolation prize...
What prize do I get?

Also, I understand your point was about watering down lyrics. You're correct, not everyone has. However, this thread isn't simply about lyrics, which is why I said what I said.

Is everyone up to speed now? Good.

What they 'had to do' to become well known had nothing to do with their lyrical content. Super religious lyrics didn't make them famous, but it did help. Not because they converted people to Christianity, but because it made them different. Like a gimmick.

Their lyrical content was the only thing that kept them in the "Christian camp." However, they got a lot of attention and toured with bands like WASP because of their sound and how much they liked to party. Nothing to do with lyrics. If anything, the lyrics just made them more of a novelty in the era of novelties.

If you mean to suggest they became popular because they refused to compromise anything, I think you're wrong. The band would be the first to admit they were extremely compromised. Google some interviews.


@astro- no refunds.
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#23
I am in agreeance with Rainacorns first post, assuming I understood it.
 

Crypto

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2009
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#24
Short answer- the people who love it.

For the ridiculously long answer, see below. Also, I know I was just complaining about people starting new threads when there are others nearly identical to it and here I am starting the billionth thread about Christian music. I am not starting this because I think Christian music is evil and nobody should listen to it. I'm starting this because I see ZERO discernment going on beyond personal taste.

I hope this thread is at least somewhat different and raises different points. We'll see. Grab your snuggie and some hot chocolate. This is gonna take a while.

Here we gooooooooooo.

Matthew 16:23 "But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”"

Christian music tries to ride the fence between popular music and worship music. I don't think you can have it both ways and I don't know of many artists that successfully pulled this off for an extended period of time. The artists that claim to be reaching out to a secular audience as witnesses water down their message to give it more mass appeal. When it reaches that point, I honestly hear no discernible difference between them and a secular group. Actually, I hear little difference anyway.

Christian music intentionally copies mainstream sounds and trends. For every major mainstream artist, there is a Christian sound-alike. Christian music is THE ONLY genre defined exclusively by lyrical content. They want to be included in the mainstream as 'crossovers,' or at least sit on the music shelves of Christians and non Christians alike, so they have to sound like all the other groups in the mainstream. This not only strips them of artistic creativity (as it does ALL the bands who TRY to sound like another band), but it strips them of their spiritual impact. They're in the world and of the world.

CCM, by it's very nature, is misguided. It's trying to cash in on worship! This is of course just my opinion, but I see it as being equally distasteful as TV preachers who make millions of dollars a year or corrupt politicians who claim to be part of the religious right to score votes. Where is the line?

At what point are you no longer serving the Lord and rather using the Lord to make yourself rich? Or maybe not even that rich- just "famous".


Matthew 6:24 "No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."

Not many Christian artists claim to hate the business they're in.

The music industry corrupts people. Even the most well-intentioned Christian artist, by becoming part of this multi-billion dollar industry, is exposing themselves to extreme corruption and will MOST LIKELY SUCCUMB.

Maybe you think the artist is a Christian. What about everyone they have surrounded themselves with? What about the people at the label, and the publishing company, and the marketing company, and the studio, etc etc etc.? Are they all good Christians too? I can tell you from firsthand experience that they usually are not. For the Christian music industry to compete and make a big impact, they have hired many many people from the secular music industry. CCM needs the secular expertise so they can mimic the secular music business. Not only are they paying these people more than they are worth, but they are turning a blind eye to their corrupt(ing) lifestyles. The Christian industry looks like the secular industry in pretty much every way. So how can the product really be soooo different?

It's not different. But the audience is.

Basically, you people who listen to anything as long as it is labeled Christian have made it so labels will call something Christian just so you will buy it...even if the artist asks them not to. That was the case with MuteMath. They said they didn't want to be marketed by faith because they had ethical objections and the label did it anyway. The result was that the majority of their sales came from Christian audiences. Same with Evanescence. They really couldn't be less of a Christian band (their lyrics are straight up heretical), but because they were played on Christian radio, the audience went out and bought the cd. The band themselves were appalled by how easily Christians were deceived.

Christian artists, just because someone calls them that, are not infallible. They drink, smoke, do drugs and have sex just like secular artists. The only difference is they have to be more secretive about it and lie to their fans. This isn't true of EVERY Christian artist, just as it isn't true of every secular artist. But the odds seem to be about the same. Even sugary sweet Amy Grant lamented that people hide the cocaine when she is around. This was roughly the same time she was cheating on her then husband with her now husband (who was also married). You remember that era, right? Where she was feeling up some model in her video, singing 'Baby Baby' into his ear? Ah the lengths a Christian will go to in order to 'reach the lost.'

How many times have you heard about a 'cross over' Christian artist who just totally crossed over and walked away from Christianity altogether? Too many times. Even some of those who stay in the Christian world say openly that the label of 'Christian' hinders their ability to reach people. Their faith starts to become a secret in certain circles and eventually it isn't there at all.

I understand that everyone is a sinner, even those who are saved. However, for many of the kids on this forum- your arguments are that Christian music is somehow better than secular music when by EVERY MEASURE it is exactly the same. The only major difference is that by slapping the label of 'Christian' onto something they can not only guarantee sales and promotion, but that you will DEFEND the artist like you know something about them. You will do more to spread the word about a Christian artist than you will Christ. They're counting on it.

In the first Bible quote, Jesus says Peter is possessed by Satan. But what did Peter do to deserve that accusation? He didn't want to believe that something bad would happen to Jesus. From Peter's perspective, he was just loving Jesus and thinking positively. From God's perspective, he was dangerously misguided. He was focused on the things of man.

I think some people, while wanting to uplift and defend the Lord, are confusing their own desires and opinions with God's will. Not all Christian music is of God... in fact, it can be a tool of Satan to spread false teachings. You have to believe that or you're leaving yourself wide open. When it comes to the music you listen to, I hope you don't go simply with whatever 'tickles your ears.' Music has power, that's why we all love it and why both God and Satan use it to reach people.

Congrats if you read all of this. You deserve a reward.
I think you should have titled this post "Why I Hate Contemporary Christian Music", and I agree with what you said. Rock music is worldly, and adding Christian lyrics to worldly music doesn't make it Christian, it makes it worldly music with Christian lyrics.

The Battle for Christian Music by Tim Fisher is an excellent book on this subject. He uses words from the musicians themselves to prove his argument.
 
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freedom964

Guest
#25
I really agree with the first post. I think there is good christian music, but then when it starts to cater to wordly/ evil sounding music, then it is wrong. One should come to God not because of the music, but because you really want guidance and knowledge from the word of God. Music to praise him should not be worldly or masked. It takes the true meaning of christianity which is to submit to Gods rules and way of life. I mean common we have rap, screamo, heavy metal sounding "chistian music" now? really? all of that came from the "world" outside of what God likes. I know there are going to be highly liberal/ to only sunday going chritians that are going to say, "well at least we are brining the youth to christ with this music". well it will backfire in the end, the music alone should not bring someone to christ. especially of it came from the world. The problem is that we as christians are not being taken seriously and need to cater to different types of wordly things just so people can convert. This is why we are mocked by non beleivers, and Islam itself is becoming the fastest growing religion due to its strict guidlines and rules.
 
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chiclet01

Guest
#26
"We have brought into our churches certain operatic and theatrical music; such a confused, disorderly chattering of some words as I hardly think was ever in any of the Grecian or Roman theatres. The church rings with the noise of trumpets, pipes, and dulcimers; and human voices strive to bear their part with them. Men run to church as to a theatre, to have their ears tickled. And for this end organ makers are hired with great salaries, and a company of boys, who waste all their time learning these whining tones."

That's a quote from Erasmus (1466-1536) referring to the very music that was earlier quoted as being music that sounds heavenly and makes us think of God. I could find you many other quotes of past debates over the current worship music of that day being "too secular" and therefore simply unacceptable as music of worship. (I'm a music teacher who's had to study this stuff WAY too much in music history). Pianos were a horrible thing to bring into the churches because they were saloon instruments. LOL.

My point is... every generation will have some who look at the current trends of worship music and declare that it's too secular. History will continue to repeat itself. The best we can do is seek out the music that truly helps us connect with God to worship and praise Him. Of course truth is important. Of course some music will NOT bring you closer to God, but honestly that will have as much to do with your personal preferences as anything else. There are some fantastic worshipful hymns and songs that are full of truth that don't connect with me, and that's because of my own personal tastes.

Now, I do absolutely agree that the music industry can be full of traps and snares, and a lot of Christian artists have fallen into them. But there are traps and snares all around us because of the sin surrounding us. I could tell you stories about some of the authors of classical music and hymns that would not reflect kindly on them either (music history again). To a degree, Christian musicians are almost like teachers in my mind, and therefore held to a higher standard. They have to be extra careful about the way they live and in their walk because of how visible they are. But I don't think that reflects on the genre of contemporary Christian music as a whole.

Anyways, maybe I missed the point of all of this. But it always makes me wince a little when people start going off on how contemporary Christian music can't be of God... and truthfully the reasoning boils down to "because that kind of music offends me." I don't like screamo personally. I'm too old for it. LOL. But all of the music that's now old and "tried and true" to us was brand new and "too secular" to someone once.

Just don't confuse your own personal tastes with moral absolutes. That gets dangerous.
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Tobby17

Guest
#27
Ok the whole set up, not the music itself...

If i'm correct, then i'm in support of what u probably *Dislike* Rainacorn
 
Aug 2, 2009
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#28
I originally said in June how I can't get into christian music (see page 1), but now I think I like it.
 

jandian

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2011
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#29
Is the song "Amazing Grace" corrupted if Amy Grant sings it? Is John 3:16 corrupted if a hypocritical pastor reads it?

NO. The Word of God is still the Holy Word of God no matter who reads it. Worship songs are still worship songs as long as I desire them to be so.

If yuo're worried about hearing or reading things from corrupted people, then you should go live in a shack in the middle of the forest with no human contact. That's just a fact of the matter.

the song isnt, but the ministry is
 

lil_christian

Senior Member
Mar 14, 2010
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#30
There isn't anything wrong with Christian music. The lyrics are Biblical....and just because they have an awesome drum beat, or an amazing lead guitar part, it doesn't mean anything. It's about the INTENTION OF HEART. It's about the people that play the music. Just because it's not John Wesley or Fanny Crosby doesn't mean it's bad. And just because it's not played on piano or an organ doesn't mean a thing...I love the way Christian music is put together. The harmonies, the rhythm...it's all very creative. With that being said, I don't like every band or artist out there that's Christian. Family Force 5 disguuusts me. And some singers are just not....they have no talent yet they're out there. Some of them are just so fake I can't stand it. But a majority of Christian music I like. And as long as they remember Who they're doing it for.
 
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MissCris

Guest
#31
I don't listen to Christian music very much...I'm kind of partial to old fashioned hymns.

And that's all I'm gonna say about that.

:D
 

lil_christian

Senior Member
Mar 14, 2010
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#32
I don't really mind hymns...but after a while they all say the same thing, sound the same...but here's what I think about Christian music:
Matthew 10:16

New American Standard Bible (NASB)


16 “Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves...
 
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rodogg

Guest
#33
Lecraes message isn't watered down. Btw, I didn't read your whole post, I didn't have time :p Just bein' honest lol. I don't like a lot of Christian music though, but there is some really good stuff. :)
 
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jimmydiggs

Guest
#34
Biggest problem with the vast majority of CCM is the lack of lyrical content.
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#35
There isn't anything wrong with Christian music. The lyrics are Biblical....and just because they have an awesome drum beat, or an amazing lead guitar part, it doesn't mean anything. It's about the INTENTION OF HEART. It's about the people that play the music. Just because it's not John Wesley or Fanny Crosby doesn't mean it's bad. And just because it's not played on piano or an organ doesn't mean a thing...I love the way Christian music is put together. The harmonies, the rhythm...it's all very creative. With that being said, I don't like every band or artist out there that's Christian. Family Force 5 disguuusts me. And some singers are just not....they have no talent yet they're out there. Some of them are just so fake I can't stand it. But a majority of Christian music I like. And as long as they remember Who they're doing it for.
You didn't read the OP.
 

lil_christian

Senior Member
Mar 14, 2010
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#36
You didn't read the OP.
I read through it...might have translated it wrong but from what you say, you say it's no different than secular music. And I assure you, it's nothing like it. My pastor did a sermon on secular music....it's MUCH different than Christian music. It's not about how you put a song together....it's about the message they're sending out. And once again, I assure you, the messages are MUCH different.
 
Sep 28, 2011
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#37
well? we can't judge their hearts. we can know them by their fruit. like you said.
but God has believers in many areas of media- both secular and christian so as to sort of reach many at whatever level they're at. i mean. for me. i have had many different seasons of my walk with God.

some seasons i was walking the narrowest path and i wanted NOTHING to do with secular anything. i thought that anything that was not inspired by the Holy Spirit was inspired by other spirits (evil spirits) and i wouldn't even listen to it.

there were seasons where i wouldn't listen to "harder" christian music because it sounded too angry. and the God i knew didn't have anything to do with that kind of dark self expression. but then there were other seasons, where some of the harder music was all i could handle. and i didn't feel close to God. and i needed a kind of bridge. so i feel like i've been on all sides of this argument. but my main point and hopefully contribution to this conversation is that together, as one body, at whatever level of faith we are at, at whatever level of purity we are at, in whatever medium God has allowed us to utilize for His glory, we form a kind of ladder to God. and some are on the lower rungs of the ladder, and some you don't touch until you're real high up on that ladder of holiness. but we all have to start somewhere. we can't blind someone brand new to the faith with the unmistakable purity of God. ya gotta let them get their feet wet first. and sometimes middle ground music is a great way to do that.

i find God even in secular music. i do think a lot of it is evil. but i also know sometimes God uses secular songs to get my attention. sometimes my God will actually sing me the lyrics of a secular song. because He knows i'll hear it. He'll use almost anything to reach us, His beloved ones. we can't snub our noses at any one method and say "God can't use that" because He does. because he's amazingly humble. and his ways are higher than ours. all our noise and music that we're making down here only proves that.

i know that there should be this perfect bubble of holiness because God is holy and we are to be holy like Him. but we're here. on a demon-infested planet full of sinners. i think honoring Him with our talents is the best that any of His children can do. and i believe a good handful in the christian music industry are doing that. i don't think christian artists go into the business to make money. in our generation, most of them barely break even quite frankly. it's not about the money. it's about a passion for creativity that God put in them. what we do with our talents is each person's responsibility before God but i don't feel that christian music has ever steered me away from the character of God.

at least not the kind i listen to.
all we can do is honor God with what he;s telling us as individuals and accept the light that he sheds on our media choices. there's a LOT of mixture in His body. but if our hearts have a "yes" towards Him, he is able and willing to clean us up a little bit at a time.

i'm sorry if this was a ramble. Bless you.
 
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Siberian_Khatru

Guest
#38
There are a very select few musicians that are categorized as Christian-rock, or some derivation of it, that I enjoy listening to. I agree with rain for the most part on how slippery a slope "Christian music" falls onto.

To expand on this; I think secular music gets a bad rap from some zealous Christians. Musicians that neither exalt nor decry the Gospel are often seen as nearly or equally as bad as those that do the antithesis.

Comments?
 

lil_christian

Senior Member
Mar 14, 2010
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#39
There are a very select few musicians that are categorized as Christian-rock, or some derivation of it, that I enjoy listening to. I agree with rain for the most part on how slippery a slope "Christian music" falls onto.

To expand on this; I think secular music gets a bad rap from some zealous Christians. Musicians that neither exalt nor decry the Gospel are often seen as nearly or equally as bad as those that do the antithesis.

Comments?
I don't think all secular music is bad, but 95% of it is not cool. It has very bad hidden meanings behind it...I wish I could tell you everything...
 
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rainacorn

Guest
#40
I read through it...might have translated it wrong but from what you say, you say it's no different than secular music. And I assure you, it's nothing like it. My pastor did a sermon on secular music....it's MUCH different than Christian music. It's not about how you put a song together....it's about the message they're sending out. And once again, I assure you, the messages are MUCH different.
You assure me because your pastor said it?

While I agree there is a difference in message between CCM and regular pop music, I was focusing in more on things like Christian hardcore and Christian black metal.

Structurally and technically there is ZERO difference between modern Christian and secular music (of ANY genre or style). A Christian hardcore song sounds exactly like a secular Christian song. The only difference are the lyrics that no one can understand anyway.

Now my question for you is this- if they sound exactly the same in pretty much every way, then why is there a Christian music industry at all? Why can't these artists compete in the mainstream with everyone else? Sure there are fluke examples here and there, but for the most part Christian artists stay inside the Christian music bubble. Why?