Married in heart?

[Kisses1990]

Yes, I look back and say that he lied to me. My marriage was based on a lie.. but it was still a real marriage, just not one set on the right foundations.

Something based on a lie is real? Real in the sense that it takes place in reality, but as far as an emotional commitment with God, real? I don't think anything has any place in reality if it is based on a lie.

It was real to YOU. And I am very sorry for you. Reading this saddens me. Please don't take these words as me being insulting. That's not the intention at all. But I'd say it was real to YOU, not to him. He sounds like a terrible person and like he was lying to you from the start. I'm so sorry to hear that.

You are better off without him. And legally, you two were married, but I believe GOD knows. And He has sympathy for you. He is not going to hold you to that terrible marriage. A REAL marriage belongs in the context of REAL love.

 

[iraasuup]

I never said I had a problem with marriage. I don't have a problem with it at all, actually. And I plan on getting married. We are just choosing not to until....26 I believe it is? that's when we would be officially off of our parents insurance (which is a great plan). We are in school and just don't see the rush. We already feel married anyway and we do not cheat or anything. We have a great relationship.

Look at what you said in paragraph 8. I quote "Does anyone say 'Ok God, we're baptised now' and then just stand there? No! There is a SYMBOLIC meaning to the ceremony, just as there is with marriage..."

You just admitted the symbolism in the whole thing, yet when I am admitting and realizing that it's symbolic, you attack me. I'm just cutting out the symbolism in it. In the same sense, I don't think you actually HAVE to be baptised. Catholics think you do. But I believe that if you are a good christian and believe God's teachings, love him, and everything else, you will get into heaven. Even if you were never baptised. Baptism is PURELY a symbolic thing. It's not necessary. I understand what The Bible says about marriage. I don't think The Bible is 100% literal either. I understand the beauty of marriage. But that beauty is made up between these two people. It's not done by anyone else. Just these two people with God. I don't believe that is living in sin at all. All of a sudden, you marry, and now you are not living in sin? That doesn't make any sense. It IS, as you admitted, a symbolic thing. It has meaning only in a sentimental and emotional way (again, lest you are talking legal). Marriage is a union you make within your soul, heart, mind, and body. You don't need anyone else but God for that.

I mean, another example is church. I don't believe you HAVE to go to be a great christian. I would question why you wouldn't want to go, but God is understanding. If you are handicapped and you cannot get to church, who cares? You pray. And that is all that matters. You have a relationship with God. You don't need to be in some building to prove your love for God. You either love him or you don't. He knows.

First of all, I never 'attacked you'.. I was very polite in my posts, and took great care in how I wrote them to ensure that.

Secondly, yes you do have to get baptised. Water baptism (although there is symbolism in the ceremony) is an ACT OF OBEDIENCE towards God. We're instructed by God to do so.

Catholics don't get baptised they get 'Christened' and their children engage in 'first communions'.. ENTIRELY different, to baptism in the Christian Faith. Also, I was just using the example of 'baptism' to make my point that we can't just pick and choose what we wanna believe, or just go 'yeah I'm gonna do this my way'. It's God's way or no way at all. Jesus says, we cannot be lukewarm. We're either Hot or Cold... if we're lukewarm he'll spit us out of his mouth. I dunno about you, but I don't want to experience that.

Back to the symbolism, of course it's symbolic. Many things in the bible are symbolic, in fact most of them are. God uses those things to 'illustrate' his point or message to us, to get us to grasp the importance of it.

Anyway, this is going around in circles, and I have a plane to catch tomorrow, so I'm gonna go do something productive, like pack a bag.

Blessings

 

[Powemm]

He who is without sin..... Cast your stone .... Go ahead ....
I think I'd surely DROP IT ...

 

[Kisses1990]

If I wasn't married, and went out tomorrow and slept with a guy, then said... ' oh you know what, my heart wasn't really in that' does that make it okay? Does that mean I 'never actually slept' with him?

Of course it doesn't make it ok. That would be very wrong. Had you said your heart WAS in it, and the other persons heart was in it too, it would still be wrong. ...Until the two of you consciously realized that you were in love and wanted to spend the rest of eternity together. Then, and only then, it would no longer be wrong. God would recognize that as a spiritual binding of two souls....a marriage. And it wouldn't be legal, but it would be REAL with God.

 

[Powemm]

Time to dust the feet .. No further casting pearls ..

 

[iraasuup]

Something based on a lie is real? Real in the sense that it takes place in reality, but as far as an emotional commitment with God, real? I don't think anything has any place in reality if it is based on a lie.

It was real to YOU. And I am very sorry for you. Reading this saddens me. Please don't take these words as me being insulting. That's not the intention at all. But I'd say it was real to YOU, not to him. He sounds like a terrible person and like he was lying to you from the start. I'm so sorry to hear that.

You are better off without him. And legally, you two were married, but I believe GOD knows. And He has sympathy for you. He is not going to hold you to that terrible marriage. A REAL marriage belongs in the context of REAL love.

That was my point.. it was real, as in it actually occurred. I can't pretend like that 7 years of my life never happened.

I still acknowledge it was a real marriage (albeit not a Godly one) and I have no desire to ever experience that again, but it is what it is, and I must move forward with my life.

Thank you, I appreciate your understanding and empathy, but I a doing much better now, and have certainly learnt a lot more about men, relationships and what I'd do differently next time...if I get a next time.

 

[Kisses1990]

Back to the symbolism, of course it's symbolic. Many things in the bible are symbolic, in fact most of them are. God uses those things to 'illustrate' his point or message to us, to get us to grasp the importance of it.

If it's merely symbolic, and not within the realm of reality, then no, we don't HAVE to do it. By choosing to do it we are choosing to be theatrical. GOD knows whats in your heart and if you are really a christian or not. You don't need to act out any symbolism to prove that.

 

[iraasuup]

Time to dust the feet .. No further casting pearls ..

You're not obliged to participate. We're not arguing (at least I'm not, I hope kisses feels the same way), just merely having healthy debate and presenting different sides of the argument.. if I'm not mistaken, that's the entire point of these forums.

 

[Kisses1990]

That was my point.. it was real, as in it actually occurred. I can't pretend like that 7 years of my life never happened.

I still acknowledge it was a real marriage (albeit not a Godly one) and I have no desire to ever experience that again, but it is what it is, and I must move forward with my life.
.

See what I mean though? If it's NOT a Godly marriage, then it is not a REAL marriage. It is only "real" in the realm of legalities and the courtroom.

 

[iraasuup]

If it's merely symbolic, and not within the realm of reality, then no, we don't HAVE to do it. By choosing to do it we are choosing to be theatrical. GOD knows whats in your heart and if you are really a christian or not. You don't need to act out any symbolism to prove that.

I never said it was 'merely symbolic' I said it 'Does have symbolic' meaning, but that its an 'Act of obedience' toward God which we're INSTRUCTED to do. If you want to respond properly, then please make sure you quote my entire post, not just pieces of it, you wish to misconstrue.

 

[Kisses1990]

My apologies for the misquote. But I guess I still can't understand why God would instruct us to act something out with symbolism to prove our obedience. It seems rather pointless and a waste of time, doesn't it? We never have to lift a finger. I think He knows what we feel in our hearts. Anything extra we do on this earth we might be rewarded for in Heaven, but nothing is necessary.

 

[jimmydiggs]

He who is without sin..... Cast your stone .... Go ahead ....
I think I'd surely DROP IT ...

It's not a matter of casting stones. Jesus gave us a law to obey. Why do we think that we can hate the things of God, run rampant with no repentance ever, and still call ourselves the children of God?

 

[jimmydiggs]

My apologies for the misquote. But I guess I still can't understand why God would instruct us to act something out with symbolism to prove our obedience. It seems rather pointless and a waste of time, doesn't it? We never have to lift a finger. I think He knows what we feel in our hearts. Anything extra we do on this earth we might be rewarded for in Heaven, but nothing is necessary.

There is a certain point where refusing to be baptized is an act of disobedience, rebellion and sin toward God. This is something I consider often, as I am yet to be baptized.

 

[Kisses1990]

Jimmydiggs, just out of curiosity, why haven't you been baptized yet?

I can totally see how "refusing" to be baptized would be rebellion/disobedience. But, just taking one's sweet time and having it not the first thing on your mind to do I think is a different story.

This topic is supposed to be about marriage. But in the context of where I am coming from, it can't be dealt with in a similar way. I'd say YES, refusing would be a sin. Just like purposely refusing to marry just for the sake of rebellion would be a sin too. But I plan on getting married. I just see no rush. My and my boyfriends mind is already made up. In our heads, we are married. Just like you, Jimmydiggs, if you are a true Christian, you really are baptized in a sense. Maybe not officially, but who cares. You have good intentions and you plan on doing it sooner or later. Just like I plan to be officially married.

 

[Markum1972]

First I must apologize for this lie. When I first came here there was an option for married or not married. In the my heart married applies. In the world this is not true and most would say this. We live together as if married. Her former husband has disappeared for many years now. The issues were irreconcilable. She was faithful and he was not. He left them and there has been no way for divorce. She was not worried about this as she never thought of being married again until we met. Without going into to many details about their marriage, I argue was it even legal or marriage in God's eyes? They were married out of pressure because she was pregnant. They were both young, this was many years ago. At the time they were married at the courthouse, he was high on drugs. When it came time for him to say, "I do" he couldn't even utter the words. He simply said or hummed, mmmhmmmm his eyes closed so high on drugs. The way she describes this day is, "how could anyone even be married that way." yet the judge issued a certificate. I have not felt conviction on being here. In fact I believe it is where I am to be and what I am supposed to do. There is law there is grace. There is man's law. This is a public apology and confession. I am asking for forgiveness.

Just an FYI:

A marriage license is actually permission by the state or church to get married and may also be used as a document of record. However, even by legal definition, a marriage license is NOT an officiator of a marriage.

It is a constant frustration to hear so many quick to condemn others through their own ignorance. Marriage licenses were not even introduced until the 1400s. So then by the standards of many I guess everyone before then was living in sin. God forbid.

 

[Markum1972]

There is a certain point where refusing to be baptized is an act of disobedience, rebellion and sin toward God. This is something I consider often, as I am yet to be baptized.

Into what baptism? (Read Acts 8 to understand.)

 

[jimmydiggs]

Just an FYI:

A marriage license is actually permission by the state or church to get married and may also be used as a document of record. However, even by legal definition, a marriage license is NOT an officiator of a marriage.

It is a constant frustration to hear so many quick to condemn others through their own ignorance. Marriage licenses were not even introduced until the 1400s. So then by the standards of many I guess everyone before then was living in sin. God forbid.

My objection isn't the lack of a piece of paper, but rather disobedience to scripture.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Jimmydiggs, just out of curiosity, why haven't you been baptized yet?

But, just taking one's sweet time and having it not the first thing on your mind to do I think is a different story.

Nowhere in scripture did anyone put it off because "oh, I want to take my sweet time."

I'd say YES, refusing would be a sin.

You're refusing by deceptive delay.

Just like purposely refusing to marry just for the sake of rebellion would be a sin too.

It would be fornication.

But I plan on getting married.

You either are or you aren't. If you're not, you're fornicating. In that case, repent of your wickedness.

Just like you, Jimmydiggs, if you are a true Christian,

That's part of the question.

you really are baptized in a sense.

No, there's no sense about it. I'm not baptized.

Maybe not officially, but who cares.

1) God
2) Me

You have good intentions and you plan on doing it sooner or later.

Just like I plan to be officially married.

No. You're either married or your not. There is no "technical" about it.

 

[CC_Bride]

You may be having an adulterous affair right now, you may be sleeping with another man's wife. And truly love that woman more than anything other person you've ever had in your entire life. Your love may be the greatest human love ever to be found on the face of the earth, your love may be truer and committed than any other two people have ever experienced. ITS STILL WRONG.
Our love for each other no matter what capacity no matter how wonderful it is to the couple, is never EVER greater or takes precedence over God's righteousness. Human love never exceeds Gods righteousness.
Human love doesn't change anything. Your 'love' just just a grain of sand at a beach in comparison to Gods righteousness.
She may not have committed adultery before but she has now, by YOUR hand.
It doesn't matter how the girls marriage started or under what circumstances, God calls us to love our spouse REGARDLESS of the circumstances. Now, this girl may have biblical grounds for divorce. And she has the right to divorce by the sounds of it. And she should seek legal advice on getting a divorce or at the very least finding a private investigator to serve him with court summons for a divorce! Nothing is impossible with God. But instead what she chose was a total cop out and what you've chosen for her is a total cop out.
Your evangelism to her so far is saying, its ok to commit adultery, its ok to sleep together (which I bet you have). Nothing of what you've said even points towards Jesus and even new Christians have enough maturity to at least be convicted by their sin and you aren't!

You are not man enough to be a defacto husband let alone a Christian husband. You have essentially become her Jesus and that also is hugely wrong. You're not pointing her towards Jesus your pointing her towards you as a God and you are setting her up for further heartbreak and anguish and anger when she discovers you are not a god. You are just a sinful human being like the rest of us. Shame on you for contributing to her idolatry AND adultery.
God will not listen to you as a man for as long as you are unrepentant about this (1 Peter 3:7). So long as you are still putting your hands all over her, lying to her, manipulating her and convincing her otherwise and therefore abusing her trust. And then cry out to God, “Help me/us.” God is gonna say, “No way. You don’t love my daughter, I don’t serve you. You don’t honor my daughter, I don’t honor you. You are on your own!”
Man didn't make marriage law, God did. He gave it to Moses on Mt Sinai as law for his people so that they can be holy and set apart in how they did sex and family from other nations. So yes, it is required before God to make it legal. Legal marriage protects women and children and has so for the last thousands of years and you are abusing that. You are abusing her naivety and gullibility.
And of course you're not the most objective person on this matter because by continuing what you're doing you get to stay in her pants. Oh lucky you! You get to drink the milk without having to buy the cow you cheap sorry excuse for a man.

Break up with her in love and sort your relationship out with Jesus, have her seek a divorce and patiently wait on your sorry ass until she is, THEN marry her then get in her pants AND LOVE HER AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH.. Not this greasy disgusting version of what you call gospel love to a woman.

 

[Kisses1990]

Nowhere in scripture did anyone put it off because "oh, I want to take my sweet time."
.

Jimmydiggs, then I ask again, why haven't you been baptized yet?

Also, just because no one did it in scriptures doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong or right. I respectfully disagree.