The Great Lie and Fallacy of Evolution

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ddallen

Guest
#22
Two things
Evolution is just a theory A theory in science is a body of work that contains hypothesis, experimental procedure and data. It also contains results based on the data and conclusions based on the results - it is not a guess. Germs are a theory, gravity is a theory.

So how does a thing of immense energy come out of nothing? I presume you are talking about the universe! The universe did not come from nothing. It expanded from a primordial super dense atom. Before you ask what was there before the atom - remember that this atom, for want of a better word, contained time - there was no before the big bang as time did not exist
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
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#23
Two things
Evolution is just a theory A theory in science is a body of work that contains hypothesis, experimental procedure and data. It also contains results based on the data and conclusions based on the results - it is not a guess. Germs are a theory, gravity is a theory.

So how does a thing of immense energy come out of nothing? I presume you are talking about the universe! The universe did not come from nothing. It expanded from a primordial super dense atom. Before you ask what was there before the atom - remember that this atom, for want of a better word, contained time - there was no before the big bang as time did not exist
Takes an enormous amount of faith to believe that! Kinda' like saying that the primordial atom was a god, the god of science perhaps.
If there was a big bang then it was God Who spoke it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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ddallen

Guest
#24
The primordial atom was not a god - it was a super dense something that contained everything we consider the universe - poor explanation but human language does not lend itself well to the idea of the primordial atom. There is no faith - the evidence all points to a big expansion creating the universe
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
113
#25
The primordial atom was not a god - it was a super dense something that contained everything we consider the universe - poor explanation but human language does not lend itself well to the idea of the primordial atom. There is no faith - the evidence all points to a big expansion creating the universe
and this p.a. 'just happened to show up' one day with all the stuffings to form complexities we are not even capable of plumbing the depths of?
 
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ddallen

Guest
#26
and this p.a. 'just happened to show up' one day with all the stuffings to form complexities we are not even capable of plumbing the depths of?
It did not just appear one day - before the big bang - time was meaningless - did not exist.
If you look deep enough - every single thing in the known universe - including energy is comprised of 25 different individual components in varying orders.
 
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amdg

Guest
#27
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the BBT is utterly silent on the origin or cause of the singularity. It simply postulates that there was a singularity around ~13 billion years ago which rapidly expanded, forming the universe. Thus, it doesn't confirm or reject the divine (in fact the man who discovered it was a Catholic priest).
 
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ddallen

Guest
#28
Perfectly correct
 
Jun 30, 2011
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#29
There actually is no logic in evolution itself
If Evolution were true, logic would not be possible

For people - how would we know if we evolved correctly?
How do we know our senses evolved correctly
How do we know our memory is reliable

All assumptions we make with no real solid answer


Logic is not made of matter - so do laws of logic exist?
Absolute morality - any morality claim is a claim of morality - does evolution account for absolute morality
What about uniformity? Why shouldn't i be made of green cheese tomorrow, or the laws of gravity tomorrow works?

Evolution stems from a worldview of Humanism - which has to borrow on the Biblical Worldview for there to be absolutes, Logic, uniformity, reliability of senses, and memory

Evolution is really a ploy to get rid of a Creator, because if there is no creator, then i can do whatever I want

Basic Bare bones
Romans 1:
Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and qexchanged the glory of rthe immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore sGod gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to tthe dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,25 because they exchanged the truth about God for ua lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, vwho is blessed forever! Amen.


New Film Shakes Darwinism's Foundational Beliefs - US - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com

I used to be deluded with this worldview, even when I got saved - but I realized it was inconsistent with Christianity, and inconsistent in the field of Science. If you want to read my testimony on it The Creation Tutor —

Peace and Grace

 
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Grey

Guest
#30
And that's why we lack absolute certainty and evolution is a theory.
 
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Bluecomet

Guest
#31
Animals do not have a CONSCIENCE. WE DO.
 
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amdg

Guest
#32
There actually is no logic in evolution itself
If Evolution were true, logic would not be possible
Just simply not true.

For people - how would we know if we evolved correctly?
How do we know our senses evolved correctly
How do we know our memory is reliable
Well I for one know for a fact that my senses and memories are faulty to some extent. However, I also know that they have had a high degree of accuracy and that is what evolution predicts. It's not favorable for creatures to hallucinate or make up memories, especially the detailed delusions that would be necessary for such skepticism to be warranted.

Logic is not made of matter - so do laws of logic exist?
Absolute morality - any morality claim is a claim of morality - does evolution account for absolute morality {QUOTE]

Please show me a scientific publication which claims that evolution addresses such questions. Evolution doesn't account for morality in the same way that it doesn't account for the theory of special relativity or the big bang theory. It's not that holding such a view negates morality, it's that holding such a view doesn't conflict with morality. Just like none of Newton's laws require absolute morality, they quite simply are scientific, not moral or religious theories.

What about uniformity? Why shouldn't i be made of green cheese tomorrow, or the laws of gravity tomorrow works?
We believe in uniformity because of massive amounts of empirical evidence suggests it (I've seen the same level of gravity all over the world for decades). As far as the why of it, part of it is that no agent causing a change, but ultimately science doesn't know and so what. Science doesn't claim to have all knowledge and it's method doesn't require it.

Evolution stems from a worldview of Humanism - which has to borrow on the Biblical Worldview for there to be absolutes, Logic, uniformity, reliability of senses, and memory
First off, most of those concepts have a great deal of formulation by the Pagan Greeks so please don't give to much credit to our religion. Secondly, Evolution does not require humanism. All modern science requires is that you leave your theology at the door when doing the science. After the results are concluded, you are free to sit back and adore how the creator made the world.

Evolution is really a ploy to get rid of a Creator, because if there is no creator, then i can do whatever I want
Proof please.

Romans 1:
Idolatry does not equal modern science. Paul's statements here have nothing to do with evolution. We don't worship mortal men or animals.

If Ray Comfort believe he can disprove evolution. Then he should publish his findings in a peer reviewed journal. If his results are reproducible and his science is good, then he'd get a consensus of scientists and likely a Nobel Prize. However, if he isn't willing to go to the trouble of producing good academic work and respecting the process of intellectual development of the sciences by submitting to the peer-review process, then I'm not going to waste my time listening to him.

I used to be deluded with this worldview, even when I got saved - but I realized it was inconsistent with Christianity, and inconsistent in the field of Science. If you want to read my testimony on it The Creation Tutor —
I think I'll past on he testimony. Any evidence you have that it is inconsistent with science then I'd love to hear. Also, if you do have this evidence, then you really should publish it in a peer-reviewed journal.
 
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ddallen

Guest
#33
There actually is no logic in evolution itself
If Evolution were true, logic would not be possible - I do not understand what your point is here

For people - how would we know if we evolved correctly? Who said we evolved correctly - what does that mean? to be honest, as humans, there is quite a lot that is wrong with us that could be better. Most animals are 'better' than us in some way - stronger, faster etc.
How do we know our senses evolved correctly - What do you mean by this? Human sight and hearing are extremely poor compared with other animals - our sense of smell is extremely bad
How do we know our memory is reliable - Mine certainly isn't. The most unreliable feature is our memory.

All assumptions we make with no real solid answer


Logic is not made of matter - so do laws of logic exist? Laws of logic are human constructs designed to explain how the universe works - nothing more
Absolute morality - any morality claim is a claim of morality - does evolution account for absolute morality What is 'absolute morality'? If God gave it to us why then are we the only species capable of - and seemingly quite happy to commit the most horrific acts - things no other member of the animal kingdom does?
What about uniformity? Why shouldn't i be made of green cheese tomorrow, or the laws of gravity tomorrow works? Transmutation of matter and the laws of the physical universe do not change precisely because if they were to do so the universe probably would destroy itself.

Evolution stems from a worldview of Humanism - which has to borrow on the Biblical Worldview for there to be absolutes, Logic, uniformity, reliability of senses, and memory

Evolution is really a ploy to get rid of a Creator, because if there is no creator, then i can do whatever I want - Nonsense

Basic Bare bones
Romans 1:
Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and qexchanged the glory of rthe immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.
24 Therefore sGod gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to tthe dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,25 because they exchanged the truth about God for ua lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, vwho is blessed forever! Amen.


New Film Shakes Darwinism's Foundational Beliefs - US - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com

I used to be deluded with this worldview, even when I got saved - but I realized it was inconsistent with Christianity, and inconsistent in the field of Science. If you want to read my testimony on it The Creation Tutor —

Peace and Grace

See above in red
 
May 15, 2013
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#34
Because if you step outside of your belief and look at it it's not logical... Hence requiring faith to believe it.

Water drying in the sun: logical

Hurt myself when I fall: logical

Don't eat.. I'll die: logical

Holy ghost in the sky decides one day to make a ball of rock and water and put little people on it: not logical.

I'm not trying to say its not true, just saying it doesnt fit In with cause and effect and the general laws of physics and nature.
[video=youtube_share;UaXvtF69Vog]http://youtu.be/UaXvtF69Vog[/video]
 
Jun 30, 2011
2,521
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#36
Laws of logic don't exist only in the minds of humans? What if someone has different logic? Can something be a start and not a star at the same time? That is thesis / antithesis - therefore based on your logic - I can make anything exist I want - oh that's the way evolution is true for you, ahhh

Absolute morality - you know you should probably actually find a Biblically Consistent ministry to actually find out what the Bible teaches, instead of picking and choosing things according to your morality. Since you won't I'll try to give the jist

God Created all things Good
Man and Women - created in God's image in relationship with God
Man Sinned - The fall - God cursed the Universe, Earth, All the Creatures, and mankind
The flood - only Noah and his family saved - Geology - Catastrophism
The tower of Babel - dispersion of people through the creation of different languages
Jesus Came - lived the sinless life Adam did not - Died for the sins of the wordl
Jesus Rose - Relationship is built back with the Father through Faith in Christ
Jesus return - Jesus will come and destroy those who do not believe in flaming fire and vengeance

The reason why God's wrath isn't here yet, is because the Church is still here.
Romans 9
What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

God is longsuffering, slow to anger - but there will be a day when He will stop it

Your in the path of His wrath, read Romans 1 - he will let you go your own way and choose hell.

To the nonsense of the excuse - look at Erasmus Darwin's life, look at Hegel's life from the x-club, Look at what Darwin said
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#37
The primordial atom was not a god - it was a super dense something that contained everything we consider the universe - poor explanation but human language does not lend itself well to the idea of the primordial atom. There is no faith - the evidence all points to a big expansion creating the universe
Something from nothing...hmmm....sounds like creation. Unless of course the primordial atom already existed outside the confines of time and relativity. After all time was in the primordial atom.
Evidence points to an expanding universe? Perhaps but how accurate is the evidence? Is it subject to wishful thinking? How can you prove that light traveled here for thousands of light years? If the accuracy of the measurements are off but a small fraction it creates huge errors. Even the best evidence we have is so subjective in its interpretation that it could be made to point to virtually anything that suits us.
For me I will trust God Who is infallible rather than man who is demonstrated to be very fallible. Choose you this day who ye will serve but for me and my house we will serve the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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ddallen

Guest
#38
Laws of logic don't exist only in the minds of humans? What if someone has different logic? Can something be a start and not a star at the same time? That is thesis / antithesis - therefore based on your logic - I can make anything exist I want - oh that's the way evolution is true for you, ahhh
I stated that the laws are a human construct to explain the behavior of the observable universe. As for something being two different things at the same time - sub atomic particles are both waves and particles at the same time. To go a step further - anything that is not being observed exists in a state of quantum fluctuation where it can said to both exist and not exist at the same time - only when it is observed does the probability waveform collapse and it takes one state or another.

Absolute morality - you know you should probably actually find a Biblically Consistent ministry to actually find out what the Bible teaches, instead of picking and choosing things according to your morality. Since you won't I'll try to give the jist

Please explain what you mean by absolute morality

God Created all things Good
Man and Women - created in God's image in relationship with God
Man Sinned - The fall - God cursed the Universe, Earth, All the Creatures, and mankind
The flood - only Noah and his family saved - Geology - Catastrophism
The tower of Babel - dispersion of people through the creation of different languages
Jesus Came - lived the sinless life Adam did not - Died for the sins of the wordl
Jesus Rose - Relationship is built back with the Father through Faith in Christ
Jesus return - Jesus will come and destroy those who do not believe in flaming fire and vengeance

The reason why God's wrath isn't here yet, is because the Church is still here.
Romans 9
What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

God is longsuffering, slow to anger - but there will be a day when He will stop it

Your in the path of His wrath, read Romans 1 - he will let you go your own way and choose hell.

To the nonsense of the excuse - look at Erasmus Darwin's life, look at Hegel's life from the x-club, Look at what Darwin said
See red above
 
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ddallen

Guest
#39
Something from nothing...hmmm....sounds like creation. Unless of course the primordial atom already existed outside the confines of time and relativity. After all time was in the primordial atom.
Evidence points to an expanding universe? Perhaps but how accurate is the evidence? Is it subject to wishful thinking? How can you prove that light traveled here for thousands of light years? If the accuracy of the measurements are off but a small fraction it creates huge errors. Even the best evidence we have is so subjective in its interpretation that it could be made to point to virtually anything that suits us.
For me I will trust God Who is infallible rather than man who is demonstrated to be very fallible. Choose you this day who ye will serve but for me and my house we will serve the Lord.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
No one knows and no reputable scientist has ever said that they know how the PA came into existence. The is beyond human capabilities at present. That does not detract from the fact that the big bang occurred.
The evidence for the big bang theory is in and has been confirmed time and again - the latest being the the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) project that mapped the cosmic background radiation (the left over radiation from the big bang.
So many things rely on the speed of light to be a constant - if it had deviated by even a fraction of a percent over the age of the universe - we would not exist.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#40
No one knows and no reputable scientist has ever said that they know how the PA came into existence. The is beyond human capabilities at present. That does not detract from the fact that the big bang occurred.
The evidence for the big bang theory is in and has been confirmed time and again - the latest being the the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) project that mapped the cosmic background radiation (the left over radiation from the big bang.
So many things rely on the speed of light to be a constant - if it had deviated by even a fraction of a percent over the age of the universe - we would not exist.
In legal terms you are assuming facts not in evidence. The speed of light is assumed to be constant. It is a theory which is not proven.
According to science the bumble bee cannot fly.

For the cause of Christ
Roger