Is The Mosaic Law Beneficial For Those Who Have Faith?

[brmicke]

Now just to go a little further -

Paul said He did not want the righteousness contained in the Law.

Well what was the right thing to do according to the law? It was to make a sacrifice after a person sinned. This sacrifice in the New Covenant would be a confession to Jesus and a request for forgiveness.

Then Paul said He wanted the righteousness that came by faith. That means He wanted to do the right thing in the first place and not sin (He wanted to die to sin) and not have to request forgiveness at all.

Php 3:9 ¶ And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[brmicke]

I don't want to leave any loose end in my explanation of this but I am sure there will be some -

This video will clear up some questions as well as to what "under the law means". Being "under the law" does not mean the same thing as "keeping the Law".

[video=youtube;y2UFq_BuplM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2UFq_BuplM[/video]

Brian

 

[psychomom]

Hebrews 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

This verse refers to physical temple worship

The Mosaic Law is to be seen as a trinity of sorts, yet one, just as God has three parts, yet is one. The complete law consists of the Levitical temple worship, the morals of the law, and the judgments of the law. Levitical temple worship has been transferred into us through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

2 Corinthians 6:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

No one that advocates the law as relevant is saying that the old temple worship needs to be re-instated, but those that want nothing to do with the law insinuate that this is what we are advocating. Nevertheless, if we study the old temple worship, we can be enlightened to what happens within ourselves through the indwelling Spirit by the study thereof. Now, the core of our very being is the mercy seat on which the Spirit of God sits, and so on.

The moral precepts of the law are to be well thought of as relevant for today, for if we reject the precepts and principles of Godly morality, then we are vulnerable to the law of God’s judgment. There are curses and blessings. I want the judgment of blessing from God, by observing moral aspects and precepts of the Mosaic Law, and the temple worship is through Christ Jesus alone.

Galatians 2:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I have read Hebrews several times, still I thank you for your exhortation. Now I would challenge you to read Leviticus 14 starting with verse 33 through the end of the chapter and see if you can see restoration through the High Priest, and the dwelling that is being restored. See if you can see the cross, and the shedding of blood for cleansing. See if you can detect the Passover through Christ. IT'S THE LAW.

Firstly, I want to say thank you for your courtesy.

And that what was in my mind, but I so poorly articulated, is that the covenant with national Israel is surely not the only covenant God made with man. The Mosaic Covenant was made to show us sin, and to further reveal the covenant of grace and promise made with Abraham. The Mosaic covenant testifies to the perfect Standard God demands, and it was to train Israel to look for a Savior! (Whom we now have. ♥)

The verse in 2 Cor. you quote (and the 2 that come before it) was in my mind when I was thinking of this reply.
Because it's the reality of the shadow given in Lev. 19:19.
The Mosaic Law is full of types and shadows, and it's not just the sacrificial portion.
But they all point to the reality found in the Lord Jesus.

It certainly is not that I want nothing to do with God's Moral Law! How can I live in a manner worthy of the Lord without knowing and obeying it?

But the great Gospel of Jesus Christ tells us that the blessings and curses you speak of are dealt with differently under this brand New Covenant God has made with us. The blessings are ours in Christ, and He himself took the curses upon the cross.

As I see it, the way for me to obey God's moral Law is to abide in the Lord Jesus. To receive grace from Him each time I am tempted to resist that temptation. To walk so closely with Him this becomes a way of life.
I can't do it without Him. (He said without Him I can do nothing. )

Not to place myself under the Covenant He made with the nation of Israel, under which I would be responsible to keep all perfectly.
You see, the Standard God demands is absolute perfection. Nothing less could ever satisfy Him, as is just.
That's why this New Covenant is so necessary to us. The only One Who ever lived up to that Holy Standard is Jesus.
It's what HE did that matters. And even the faith to believe is given by God---it's ALL HIS work. ♥

So, like a little one, I need daily to remember to humble myself before the Lord and receive the grace He so freely gives to obey Him. To know He accomplished a perfect life, and that HIS obedience to the Father now gives me right standing with God. (by grace through faith)
If I were able to "observe moral aspects and precepts of the Mosaic Law", fully, completely, perfectly, I would not have needed a Savior. If I were able to perfectly do this (or if I ever could!), it would be my own righteousness securing blessings from God.

How absurd! I have no righteousness of my own. Only the righteousness of Christ which comes by faith. (Rom 3:19-28, Phil. 3:9)

I understand you say you do not advocate keeping the Mosaic Law for salvation.

But just as the Lord Jesus provides this great salvation, so does He maintain (keep) it for me through HIS power.

I have printed and studied Elin's beautiful Leviticus study. Wonderful isn't it?
I see Christ in Passover, of course!
I see Christ from Gen. 1:1 through the Revelation.

It's not about me.
It's all about the Lord Jesus--HIS work, HIS perfection, HIS righteousness.
I am blessed to know Him, and to abide in Him through the grace only He provides.

~ ellie

 

[psychomom]

I recommend reading the whole Bible because it is ALL the Word of God. Does anyone really think that God would say one thing and then change it later to say something totally different?
John 10:35 (KJV)
[SUP]35 [/SUP]If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Everything in the Bible must agree with every other word of scripture. If it doesn’t, someone is missing something in their study and needs to apply himself/herself more fully and pray for God to grant him/her understanding. Oh, I forgot this is the 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century and we are the “enlightened generation” because we have been taught we don’t need to study, and of course we don’t need any of the Old Testament, except the Psalms – they are so comforting – but not all of the Psalms though. We no longer need to know that the man after God’s own heart, King David, loved God’s law. We don’t need to hear David say in Psalm 119:1-5:
1 “How happy are those whose way of life is blameless, who live by the Torah of ADONAI!
2How happy are those who observe his instruction, who seek him wholeheartedly!
3 They do nothing wrong but live by his ways.
4 You laid down your precepts for us to observe with care.
5May my ways be steady in observing your laws.

And we certainly don’t need to heed David’s helpful instruction to future generations in the very first Psalm, where he wrote:

1 “How blessed are those who reject the advice of the wicked, don't stand on the way of sinners or sit where scoffers sit!
2 Their delight is in ADONAI's Torah; on his Torah they meditate day and night.
3 They are like trees planted by streams -they bear their fruit in season, their leaves never wither, everything they do succeeds.
4 Not so the wicked, who are like chaff driven by the wind.
5For this reason the wicked won't stand up to the judgment, nor will sinners at the gathering of the righteous.
6 For ADONAI watches over the way of the righteous, but the way of the wicked is doomed.

CONTINUED from post #314:
We are told in 2 Peter 1:16-21:
16 “For when we made known to you the power and the coming of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, we did not rely on cunningly contrived myths. On the contrary, we saw his majesty with our own eyes.
17 For we were there when he received honor and glory from God the Father; and the voice came to him from the grandeur of the Sh'khinah [loosely translated means “Glory”], saying, "This is my son, whom I love; I am well pleased with him!"
18 We heard this voice come out of heaven when we were with him on the holy mountain.
19 Yes, we have the prophetic Word made very certain. You will do well to pay attention to it as to a light shining in a dark, murky place, until the Day dawns and the Morning Star rises in your hearts.
20 First of all, understand this: no prophecy of Scripture is to be interpreted by an individual on his own;
21 for never has a prophecy come as a result of human willing - on the contrary, people moved by the Ruach HaKodesh [Holy Spirit] spoke a message from God.

And be sure to toss out:
2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Facetious? Who – me? Jesus is my example and He used facetiousness when He spoke to the Pharisees – see the Gospel of John.

I am uncertain of what I said to cause you to respond with hostility, but I am sorry for it.

Please feel free to tell me what is was.
~ellie

 

[JaumeJ]

Moses and the law are not the enemy. Both are worthy of study and meditation. Does anyone here believe what is written is not the source of faith and wisdom? The Word is Yeshua. It demonstrates the futility of the wisdom of man aside from It.

There is One and Only One Sacrifice for our sin, Yeshua. To deny His Word at any point in the Bible is to deny Him in part. He teaches us to learn of Him because His yoke is easy, His burden is light.

All the Word is Yeshua, so, learn of Him. It is a privilege and a pleasure for all who love Him. I would think the wisdom contained in all of the Word is beneficial.

 

[Least]

Explain to me where law profits a man. It only shows his sin. where do we turn. the cross. Practicing law does not add one inch to our stature. Following the Spirit in Faith is our just reward. In other words the only thing we can stand on before the Father is our faith in the cross and nothing else. Religion tells us to work and earn our reward. God will have none of that.

In most of these passages, believers in Jesus are being addressed. If these are not important, there would have been no reason to speak of them, but the entire message would have been on faith alone.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

What? You shall not steal, you shall not covet...commandments? There are many more commandments listed in the NT.

Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Romans 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Ephesians 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
Ephesians 6:3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
James 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

1 Peter 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

Matthew 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Matthew 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Romans 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Romans 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Ephesians 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

Luke 12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

 

[just-me]

I understand you say you do not advocate keeping the Mosaic Law for salvation.

But just as the Lord Jesus provides this great salvation, so does He maintain (keep) it for me through HIS power.

I have printed and studied Elin's beautiful Leviticus study. Wonderful isn't it?
I see Christ in Passover, of course!
I see Christ from Gen. 1:1 through the Revelation.

It's not about me.
It's all about the Lord Jesus--HIS work, HIS perfection, HIS righteousness.
I am blessed to know Him, and to abide in Him through the grace only He provides.

~ ellie

I hope you realize that I believe what you said, but I have to smile a little when I aim exhorted in a Spiritual direction that I have believed ever since I was born again in 1972. It’s amazing that when I talk about the Mosaic law in a positive way, that I am seen as someone who is a little ignorant to the grace and faith through Christ Jesus, not being able to comprehend fully the salvation in Christ.
Here is something that I believe is missing from the thoughts of those people that talk about the Mosaic Law in a negative manner as past, gone, over, not as good, etc. The Mosaic Law (one part, but not all of it) identifies sin. Those that call themselves Christians (and maybe are) that talk down the law, I see as not wanting to have their sins find them out, as they should be growing in grace. Further, what message do we give those who are not saved? Denying this part of the Mosaic Law annihilates the very reason for salvation. I am saddened with this message that we give to the lost, because they say, “saved from what? The law is gone, over, done, obsolete.”

Galatians 3:24-29 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Instead of rejection, we should be studying the Law so we can talk intelligently to the lost, edify instead of tear down, and use it to find out who we really are instead of not wanting to know our own wretchedness.

 

[just-me]

Why just why, please explain and overwhelm me with the most intelligence of man kind. Why would you trust in law, when the the free gift of righteousness is in faith of Christ. Why keep law for righteousness when it is a free gift for those who place their faith in Christ. Why slave yourself for a free gift. My daddy always said that you can work hard to keep from working. I find him to be more true everyday.

Who, pray tell, is advocating, trusting in Law? Speaking for myself, I think it's important. Very important actually. It (the law that Jesus' Father gave to Moses) shows me a greater depth of importance in the Salvation Of Christ Jesus. Trusting the Word of God (all of it) is trusting Jesus Christ. Remember? "In the beginning was the Word?"

 

[homwardbound]

So you say that a mediator is a mediator of one? That isn’t what the Bible says. So one could say that Jesus is the mediator between the sinful nature of man and the covenant of the New. I would agree with that, but then you probably won’t understand and call me double minded. Sinful man is of the Old, which is the law of sin and death. The New is in Christ of eternal life. The law of sin and death is a law for sure, so where would you say it is described except form the Old? If you think that is Pharisaical concept then do what Jesus said and accuse me via the writings of Moses.

John 5:45-47 (KJV)
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Here’s another verse or two to comprehend
Hebrews 4:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Numbers 32:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

This is in effect after the cross, completed fully at Pentecost, where one receives the new life in the Spirit of God, God given to us through the same resurrected Christ
[h=3]Romans 6[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Dead to Sin, Alive to God[/h]6What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For he who has died has been freed from sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, [SUP]9 [/SUP]knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. [SUP]10[/SUP]For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

 

[JaumeJ]

It is very sad to see people's reaction to studying all of the Word, I mean the Old Testament.

The law and the Prophets teach of Yeshua.

It is just just as alarming when people who claim to believe Jesus practically convulse if one uses the name He did, Yeshua. Now I believe to some it is truly unusual, but to any who truly know Yeshua was a Jew to balk at using this name only smells of anti Jewish hearts.

Many will suffer for His name's sake, and I believe most of them will be using His original name, though many will still be using the second hand transliteration, Jesus.

Moses and the law are not the enemy. Both are worthy of study and meditation. Does anyone here believe what is written is not the source of faith and wisdom? The Word is Yeshua. It demonstrates the futility of the wisdom of man aside from It.

There is One and Only One Sacrifice for our sin, Yeshua. To deny His Word at any point in the Bible is to deny Him in part. He teaches us to learn of Him because His yoke is easy, His burden is light.

All the Word is Yeshua, so, learn of Him. It is a privilege and a pleasure for all who love Him. I would think the wisdom contained in all of the Word is beneficial.

 

[just-me]

Originally Posted by just-me

So you say that a mediator is a mediator of one? That isn’t what the Bible says. So one could say that Jesus is the mediator between the sinful nature of man and the covenant of the New. I would agree with that, but then you probably won’t understand and call me double minded. Sinful man is of the Old, which is the law of sin and death. The New is in Christ of eternal life. The law of sin and death is a law for sure, so where would you say it is described except form the Old? If you think that is Pharisaical concept then do what Jesus said and accuse me via the writings of Moses.

John 5:45-47 (KJV)
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Here’s another verse or two to comprehend
Hebrews 4:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Numbers 32:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

This is in effect after the cross, completed fully at Pentecost, where one receives the new life in the Spirit of God, God given to us through the same resurrected Christ
Romans 6

New King James Version (NKJV)

Dead to Sin, Alive to God

6What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For he who has died has been freed from sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, [SUP]9 [/SUP]knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. [SUP]10[/SUP]For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. [SUP]14[/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under lawbut under grace.

One mediator between two parties. You're preaching to the choir. I never said there was no mediator, or more than one mediator. Let me try to simplify this mediator misunderstanding once and for all. 1 thing to the left, and 1 thing to the right, and 1 mediator in the middle so that the left and right work together in agreement. There is no mediator of 1 thing. Why in the world can't some people get that? 1 Mediator always involves 2 things to mediate.

 

[RedTent]

There is much written in these posts about how Christ took the law from us as God wrote it in the first five books of the bible and replaced it with the Holy Spirit. They talk of faith as something to use "only". Or we are "only" to follow the Holy Spirit. Those books are called Torah, those instructions are to be our guide, our comfort, our blessing. They say they are nothing but a school master, no good any more and must go. I don't believe that a loving God would do that to us. God's word says that they are solid. I don't think that God would send Christ to strip them away from us.


Heb_10:16 " 'This is the covenant which I will make with them after those days,' says Adonai: 'I will put my Torah on their hearts, and write it on their minds . . . ,' "

God said that Christ did not do that to us. Instead, Christ made the Torah more dear to us than ever.

 

[homwardbound]

Originally Posted by Shiloah
Psalm 119:34

Give me understanding, that I may keep your law and observe it with my whole heart.

Matthew 5:19

Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.




Very good point! So what you are saying in addition to Shiloah’s verses presented here is that all the teachings of Jesus (before His death on the cross) are within the boundaries of the Old Covenant. This is soooo true! So why in the world would we want to proclaim that the Old Covenant is a thing of the past?

Hebrews 9:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Matthew 5:17 [ Christ Fulfills the Law ] “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Christ before the cross was under Law, born under it from the Virgin Mary as a life-giving Spirit to all who will come to belief. For we are born dead to God, since God is a Spirit and can only be worshipped this way.
John 4:23
But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.

So Christ fulfilled the Law that was given to the first Chosen through Moses, in order to bring in a New Covenant, where we can be born again by the Spirit of God through the resurrection of Christ after we receive the death of Christ.

Now when Christ did all that Father had him do, Christ went to the cross and right before giving up the Spirit he:
John 19:30
So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit

Now since Christ yelled it is finished, I think to ask what is finished?
Did he fulfill the Law and Prophets of the Old Testament, and why did he do this, and who is this for?

To bring in:
Hebrews 9:15
And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

1. Hebrews 9:16
   [ The Mediator’s Death Necessary ] For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
   
2. Hebrews 9:17
3. For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.
   
   This new covenant brought in a new Priesthood and new laws
4. Hebrews 7:11 [ Need for a New Priesthood ] Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
   
5. Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law.
   
   And we now uphold the Law given to the first Chosen in thankfulness for it to show us our inability to obey it in its entirety, which did nothing but bring in stress, worry, guilt and fighting and arguing, because no flesh could obey it and we were in need of a new Covenant, as what Abraham joined in and God promised Abraham by Faith, that Abraham believed God. put nothing before God, not even his own Child.
   Now read Matt. where Christ shows our inability for man to enter heaven by his doings.
   Matthew 5:30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
   Matthew 18:8 “If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.
   Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—
   Mark 9:45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—
   Matthew 5:29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.
   
   Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”
   
   Do you see the inability under Law. whether one mixes Law and grace or not as you continue to point to you by this mix are not 100% dependent on God are you?
   
   Then the disciples after hearing all this about cut off this and that, or gouge out one's eye, they then see this rich man walk away sad, and they also heard that if they do not forgive, then God will not forgive them.
   
   So being Annihilated, they ask Christ?
   Matthew 19:25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
   Mark 10:26 And they were greatly astonished, saying among themselves, “Who then can be saved?”
   Luke 18:26 And those who heard it said, “Who then can be saved?”
   
   And the answer:::::
   Matthew 19:26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
   Mark 10:27 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for with God all things are possible.”
   
   So what was it Christ was talking about, with God all things are possible, could it be the cross that he was headed to? To die for us those that believe, see and receive, we are born again by God by the resurrection of Christ.
   Colossians 1:22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

[homwardbound]

Homwardbound clarified a very great truth in post #310. Then please read post #320 which is my confirmation about this truth. This will help, I believe, for people to see that Jesus clearly connects the Old Covenant with the New Covenant, for His teachings were before the New Covenant was finalized. Henceforth He is the ‘go between’ or mediator of two. I endorse to all who read this, that a mediator is the mediator of two things to be defined and reckoned with. If it were just one, then there would be nothing to connect with, or mediate.

Christ was the fulfillment of the Law and Prophets, bringing in the new Covenant that was never in place ntil after the death, then the resurrection, and without the resurrection we would be pitied of all people and still in our sins, but by the resurrection we are raised to new life if we will finalize that by the death of Christ we are forgiven, then we might see this new life in Spirit of God, which today is the only way God can be worshipped
Before the cross, under Law, under a curse, because flesh is weak and can't be perfect.
After the cross, we are made perfect by the death to be presented to God the Father as so, and Father gives us this new born again life that Christ came to give us in the Spirit of God.
Colossians 1:22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—

A lot of people today are working very hard to understand this amazing grace and are mixing Law with it, and are not coming to full term with the new life that God gave us though the resurrected Christ in the Spirit.
Romans 5:6 [ Christ in Our Place ] For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Romans 6:8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
Colossians 2:20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations—
Colossians 3:3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

 

[zone]

It is apparently a real slap in the face for modern day gentiles to be told that ancient Bereans were wise enough – noble as the KJV calls them – to learn from the Jews that lived among them, when they didn’t even have the New Testament to encourage them to do so. They learned. They didn’t get boastful and self-righteous because of their new status as Gentiles loved by God, but anger grew amongst the Jewish community in Berea because at the time, Paul was teaching these Gentiles of the Messiah. How dare he prove that new “religion” by using “their” law, given by God to “their” Moses and “their” prophets. Because “their” law and “their” prophets told of the coming Messiah, Paul used it to teach the Bereans, who were wise enough to go study to see if they were being told the truth, and they acquired a reputation of being “noble”. Romans 10:19 was being lived out.
Romans 10:19 (KJV)
19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
The very next chapter of Romans tells how the Gentiles will provoke the Jews not merely to anger but to desire the relationship with the Messiah that they have. It is God’s word and it will come to pass, but it won’t happen easily because now we have Gentiles turning this situation with the Bereans and Jews near Thessalonica in Greece, around to the opposite direction. Professing Christians regularly, and habitually accuse, belittle, defame, and slander other Gentiles who dare to look at the Mosaic Law to learn from it, and negate (to nullify or cause to be ineffective) the law itself given by God. What a crying shame! It is bad enough that the adversary makes it so hard without people claiming to be Christians (but not living the life Jesus said to live), helping him destroy communication and edification among the body of Christ.

whatever are you talking about?
the Bereans were jews.

they were searching their own scriptures to see THE GOSPEL in them.

 

[homwardbound]

Yes I understand that. It is the connection between two parties and making an agreement so they are not contradicting to each other and that they can produce results, or whatever, those things that were the intent from the beginning. I just happen to believe that the God of the Old Testament had this connection intended before He said let there be light. What becomes obsolete then, is the physical part of the Temple worship through Christ Jesus. The principles and intent from the beginning have never changed otherwise God would say For I am the LORD, I change; therefore ye sons of Jacob are consumed and everything related to you.

Instead He says; Malachi 3:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

One also has to relate this testator/mediator with an act of reconciliation.

being under Law they never understood the Abrahamic Covenant, and went about it on their own, to be holy in and of themselves. Jesus straightened this out in the order of Melchizadek.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

It has always been a Covenant of Love to God the creator of all, the Father of Christ

 

[zone]

Not that it has anything to do with this thread or that I should have to even dignify such a condescendingly delivered affront to my personal choice of the translation of the Bible I use to study, I use mostly three versions, KJV, CJB and NASB. You would not be interested in how it happened that I began using these three so I won’t bother boring you with those details.

I will however, give an example of how it is a benefit to do so for the sake of anyone reading this who wants to learn and isn’t so conceited as to believe they know it all and must instruct others because of their vast knowledge. (Of course we know of no one who would admit that but we see plenty of them in the forums.)

I was told by someone once that God created evil. Immediately, I resisted the thought but questioned what made him say that. He said it was in the Bible and sure enough, when I looked it up, there it was in the KJV Isaiah 45:7:
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Something was NOT right with this so I looked up “evil” in that verse in the Strong’s Concordance. The description of the word there closely matches the way the CJB rendering which says,
7 “I form light, I create darkness; I make well-being, I create woe; I, ADONAI, do all these things.

I find that using the CJB often saves me lots of time not having to go to the concordance for so much the KJV and even some of the NASB words.

So, zone, regarding your statement that the CJB is a paraphrase, in all fairness you should have put the entire explanation in your post rather than make it sound like it is just a paraphrase.

I close with words from my Heavenly Father:
Romans 11:25 (CJB) For, brothers, I want you to understand this truth which God formerly concealed but has now revealed, so that you won't imagine you know more than you actually do. It is that stoniness, to a degree, has come upon Isra'el, until the Gentile world enters in its fullness;

Or if that isn’t good enough for you,

Romans 11:25 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

oh sorry madam.
purleeze.

the judaized Bible you're touting changes the very essence of the gospel.

end of story.

it has much useful info on hebrew culture and whatnot - which you clearly think IS the gospel.

i don't care about much of the rest of it.

confusing and blending the ENTIRELY NEW covenant in Christ's Blood with the OLD which is gone, no matter how many fancy speeches you make is intolerable.

you can do it if you want to.
the Apostles suffered and many died at hands of the jews for standing for CHRIST AND HIM CRUCIFIED.

dispute about the Law all you want to.
some of us will never go along with it.

k....hope that wasn't too condescending.
i prefer straight-forward.

 

[zone]

The first covenant had a body of law that could not make man perfect; it could only require that man be perfect. For that reason GOD found fault with that covenant and replaced it with a better covenant that has a better law that can make man perfect, i.e., a resurrected life that makes alive forever.

they seem to overlook why the Law was brought in.
oh well....our father Abraham believed God.

let's see....is Moses in here? Sinai?

Galatians 3:29
If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

nope.

 

[homwardbound]

Right on. Paul was showing them the Mosaic Law, and what God really wanted in the Spiritual way concerning being circumcised. Here is some scripture that he, more than likely, presented to them.

Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.


Jeremiah 4:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings.

only God can do this we ourselves can't, we need God to do this by belief in the finished work of God at the cross, period.
But I am sure no one will do this until they are exhausted in the energy of their own flesh, then one might die with Christ at the cross to the self efforts of trying to please God and people. And see the acceptance in Christ and forgiveness from God through Christ Eph. 1:1-14

 

[zone]

GOD didn't give Moses principles; he gave him 10 commandments, 10 laws. Righteous behavior can't be legislated. GOD's not stupid. The law was only put in place to condemn and convict until the one would come who would give a righteous life through faith.

CHRISTIANITY 101

which is why certain ppl don't like this message.
they belong to another religion.

paul said anathema.
that's how serious this is.
but, ppl love this 4th wave.
it's so Plan A.