Is The Mosaic Law Beneficial For Those Who Have Faith?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Can some tell me what law Abraham obeyed?

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Romans 2:14-16
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[zone]

What's really sad is that while the scriptures clearly witness that the law was brought in so that sin may abound, you think that law (the very thing that condemns you) is your protector and righteousness.

Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: Romans 5:20
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HeRoseFromTheDead again.

 

[Least]

Gentiles were included in the laws given in the OT. Unless of course, a "stranger" isn't considered to be a Gentile?

I haven't seen mention of this throughout the thread.

Numbers 15:15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.
Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Numbers 15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
Numbers 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Numbers 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the LORD, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

Exodus 12:19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.

Exodus 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.

Exodus 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

There are several more verses that speak of "strangers" that sojourneth among the Hebrew people, even in the Exodus from Egypt.

 

[Shiloah]

Sad thing. Respectfully..... I can see now why we will never agree how the law of God can be a benefit to born again people. You will never see it, and you have no idea how sad that makes me. Now I see clearly why there have been so many misunderstandings between me and others like you that see the Mosaic Law as an instigator that causes one to sin. I'll leave you with this........

Romans 7:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

I fear you are totally wasting your time to post anything like this on here. I'm, for the first time in my life, literally seeing with my own eyes flat out blindness. I absolutely do not understand how you can look at a verse like "if you love Me, keep My commandments" and interpret it to mean anything but exactly what it says or ignore it entirely. And it's this way with a ton of verses I've seen posted. This is incredible blindness! I just don't get it. I need a break.

 

[homwardbound]

Originally Posted by just-me

So you say that a mediator is a mediator of one? That isn’t what the Bible says. So one could say that Jesus is the mediator between the sinful nature of man and the covenant of the New. I would agree with that, but then you probably won’t understand and call me double minded. Sinful man is of the Old, which is the law of sin and death. The New is in Christ of eternal life. The law of sin and death is a law for sure, so where would you say it is described except form the Old? If you think that is Pharisaical concept then do what Jesus said and accuse me via the writings of Moses.

John 5:45-47 (KJV)
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Here’s another verse or two to comprehend
Hebrews 4:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Numbers 32:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out.



One mediator between two parties. You're preaching to the choir. I never said there was no mediator, or more than one mediator. Let me try to simplify this mediator misunderstanding once and for all. 1 thing to the left, and 1 thing to the right, and 1 mediator in the middle so that the left and right work together in agreement. There is no mediator of 1 thing. Why in the world can't some people get that? 1 Mediator always involves 2 things to mediate.

[h=3]Galatians 4:23-25[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]23 [/SUP]But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, [SUP]24 [/SUP]which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar—
[SUP]25 [/SUP]for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
Ephesians 2:15
having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,

 

[homwardbound]

I wonder if people realise what this actually means. I think if we took a pole. not many would really understand it.

All I know is it took years before I began to see it and am dying daily to self, deeper and deeper it goes and deeper and deeper understanding Paul, especially Phil. 3
Maybe you might think about a poll, yet what gain for the people, unless they literally consent to seeing their death
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;

Or then since he died for all, that means all are dead and in need of life?
dead to sinful flesh and alive to God? How by resurrection of Christ
[h=3]Romans 6:3-6[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.

 

[homwardbound]

Have I not made that clear? Or do you think I find salvation in the Mosaic Law, or understand it as something that leads me to Christ?


2 Timothy 2:22-26 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

So what are you thus saying the Mosaic Law is for, after one has come to the end of the energy of their own flesh and stopped their own unrighteous and are self righteous behavior, and have turned to Christ for their sufficiency.
What further purpose is the Law of Moses for after it has shown me my need for God?

 

[just-me]

So what are you thus saying the Mosaic Law is for, after one has come to the end of the energy of their own flesh and stopped their own unrighteous and are self righteous behavior, and have turned to Christ for their sufficiency.
What further purpose is the Law of Moses for after it has shown me my need for God?

If one could say that they can reach a plateau of perfection in this lifetime, I would agree with you, but they can't. You can't and I can't. The other thing a person should understand is the law has a purpose for leading people to Christ. Are you going to use it for that 'God-intended' purpose when you speak to the lost about the salvation of Christ?

 

[homwardbound]

What does fulfill mean to you? I'll tell you what it means to me. Christ is fulfilling the law today also because it, the fulfillment, was over 2000 years ago, there would be no hope for those who were born after the fulfilling. Therefore, the Law is continuing to be fulfilled. If the law vanishes, then the fulfilling stops and we are worse off than before the law was given because of transgression. Fulfill is like seeing a glass of water that is not filled to the brim. In order to fulfill the glass one must pour in more water, and then the whole is fulfilled. Without having the glass partially full, there would be nothing to fulfill. Throw away the law, and there is no law to fulfill, and then the term fulfill can’t be used as a description that means anything. If you cannot comprehend this, let me know and I will pray for your understanding.

Surely, if things continue on this thread as they have in the past few days, someone is going to accuse me of saying that Jesus doesn’t mean anything now. If that happens, I would have to say that God has turned that person over to a reprobate mind.

God knows my heart and yours as well, the Law that is still in place is for the Law breakers to lead them to Christ and as well the Law of Moses was only given to the First Chosen, and Faith was given to the Gentiles and making us one with the First Chosen by Faith
[h=3]Romans 9:31-33[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]31 [/SUP]but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. [SUP]32 [/SUP]Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. [SUP]33 [/SUP]As it is written:
“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”


But man has gone over to Israel and stolen the old ragged clothes off of them, seeking righteousness through the Law of Moses, and now today have stumbled.
They started out in Faith and added Law putting on unrighteous clothes over the righteous clothes that were put on them by Faith in God through the cross.
You say this is not what you are saying, yet it is exactly what you are in a round about way saying. It is not that I make void the Law, rather I uphold it as good, holy, perfect and correct, and know that whenever it flows through my flesh I am made guilty as unredeemed flesh is weak and can't perform the entire law Whole.
But Christ did and does by the Spirit of God and ahs Joined me in the Spirit of God through the resurrection where I am free, along with all that see this, Thank You Jesus
I know many need the Law to lead them to truth that sets them free, and many see this freedom, but get caught back up in a yoke of bondage, trying to perform Law.
So truth will set one free I am sure we all agree on this
Therefore if anyone is in bondage, truth has not set them free and if one is in bondage then there might be error in that one's truth, and might need to re think their truth.
I have never escaped flesh, so I died with Christ to flesh sin, and the perfect Law that kept me captive to flesh staying alive and striving to be perfect in this flesh. I gave it up for Christ in order to see the resurrection that God gives to all that believe.
[h=3]Romans 11:8-10[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Just as it is written:
“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”

[SUP]9 [/SUP]And David says:
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”

 

[homwardbound]

I don't understand what you mean when You say "which way do I see God loving me".

Respectfully - Brian

Okay has God forgiven you 100%? Depending on how you see this and how you react to this is how one sees God Loving them?
Do you think that if you sin you need to get right with God and ask God to forgive you over and over again?
Now if you do believe this as true as most of the people do believe this then I need Scripture that states we are to be forgiven over and over again after the death of Christ on the cross.
The only place anyone has ever used is 1John 1:9. And nowhere after one agrees that Christ did come to earth in the flesh, and they were born with a flesh nature that sins, once they have agreed to this it states they receive the forgiveness from God.
It does not state that if we sin again, we need to repent again in the belief that we agreed to. Then in 1John 2 it shows us directly what is done and whom is our propitiation for all sin, whether we sin or not. And the only way to stop is stop trying to not sin, Co crucify self with Christ at the cross, ask God to show you by death, there is life in the Spirit of God where only God can be worshipped in Spirit.
[h=3]1 John 2[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

2 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
[SUP]2[/SUP]And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Romans 8:34

Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

1. Romans 8:26
   Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
   
2. Romans 8:27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
   Hebrews 7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
   
   
   There is no further forgiveness to be executed between God and Man it is done through Christ Jesus.
   The only forgiveness one has is between each other, yet if one understands what God has done through Christ for them then one will listen the Holy Spirit's prompting from God in what to do and or say, and thus not harm their neighbor.
   
   

 

[homwardbound]

Die daily to sin. Consider yourself dead to sin and alive to Christ, Rm 6:11. This means don't sin as Jesus said in,---

Joh 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

To do the right thing in God's eyes through faith. This is the clear way to say - the righteousness of God by faith.

So how do I gain the righteous of God through faith? Keep the Law. In other words Love God and neighbor. Because Jesus said that all the Law and profits are fulfilled when you do this,--

Mt 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(KJV)

God has said in the bible that Grace teaches us to abstain from ungodliness or sin, titus 2:11-12.
The end or goal is to conform us to the image of Christ.

It should be understood that God did not send Jesus to the cross only to forgive sinners but to transform them into people who do not sin. The ability to abstain from ungodliness or not sin is what is cultivated in us as the grace of God transforms us into the image of Christ.

In the following verses it can be seen where the idea (that we cannot be sinfree) comes from -

1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jo 1:8 ¶ If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

As is clarified in 1 Jn 1:10 this is referring to sins of the past not of the future. Because we are commanded not to sin by Jesus.

As is stated here the person who "lies" is the person who says they have never indulged in sinful behavior.

This is why the concept of something that is "imputed" is so misunderstood. Righteousness or the ability to do what is right in God's eyes is conveyed upon us because we have faith in Jesus. But it is not only a simply placard placed upon a person saying righteous in God's eyes through faith. The grace of God conforms you into a person who is in the image of Christ literally,. Jesus never sinned, so of course when God has conformed you into His image, through His grace and because you have faith in Christ, you will not sin either.

Remember what sin is - it is transgression of the Law. If a person sins during the process of their being taught to abstain from ungodliness the Law provides a way to be forgiven. If after having broken the law and sinning a person should keep the law and do what the Law tells them to do to be forgiven. This means if you appeal to God through the Nt sacrifice for sins and confess your sin (or transgression of the Law) Jesus will forgive you up to 70 times 7 times a day.

Respectfully - Brian

Can flesh please God ever?
What is the only flesh that ever pleased God?
Are we in unredeemed body flesh?
Does the Spirit of God ever sin?
Are to be born an new today?
What are we to be born anew of?
How is this to take place in us, I know by Faith in Christ? Have you looked deeply into being co-crucified with the self you were born with in need of new life?
How can one gain new life in seeing it without dying to the self as Paul did daily?
John 10:10 The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly

How does one have life? In the Spirit or flesh? He came to give us life in the Spirit yes? Now the resurrected Christ has been raised in Spirit yes?
What is the only way God is worshipped today?

1. John 4:23
   But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
   
2. John 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
   
3. John 14:17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
   
4. John 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

 

[homwardbound]

hi -

Ga 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

The bible says blessed are you if you keep the Law, De 11:26 ¶ Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
De 11:27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
De 11:28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

The first part of Gal 3:10 says that if a person is of the works of the Law they are under the curse. The curse is because they had not obeyed God. What are the works of the Law. The works of the Law are the works that the Law prescribes. The Law tells us to keep the rules but if we sin the law tells us what works we have to do to do to obtain forgiveness. These works involved appealing to God for forgiveness through some type of sacrifice. If it was necessary for a person to perform the works specified by the law then they had previously broken one of the laws of God and wanted to be forgiven for the offense in order to again be in right standing with God.

This is what Paul calls the righteousness that is in the law. The way to be right with God according to the law.

So we are doing what the law tells is if we offer the appropriate sacrifice to obtain forgiveness after we sin.

Now what the Law says it says to those under the law. It does not say that "what the Law says it says to those who keep the law". The law was for sinners (or lawbreakers - since sin is transgression of the Law) not the law abiding people.

Those who are under the Law have violated one of the Laws precepts and are under the authority of the Law. Those who keep the law or are law abiding Christians are under Grace because grace teaches them to abstain from sin and they have cooperated or are living under the authority of the Grace of God.

Respectfully - Brian

[h=3]Philippians 3[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]All for Christ[/h]3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me to write the same things to you is not tedious, but for you it is safe.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit,[SUP][a][/SUP] rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
[SUP]11 [/SUP]if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

Any Law keeping is a fall from grace in trusting God 100% as to what God did for us at the cross of Son, Jesus.
We are made whole by the death then new life id given in the Spirit of God via the resurrection
Colossians 1:22
in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—

 

[just-me]

John 5:30-34 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

John 18:38 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

Hopefully these two verses will turn a light on in the hearts and minds of all who read. I have posted many times John 5:44-47 so I won't do it again. So Moses and the prophets were instructed by God what to write. So, what is the witness of Christ without these writings? I submit that those of you who reject the law and the prophets have the same witness that Jesus said about Himself if He didn't have a confirming witness through His Father who gave these writings to Moses and the prophets.

Matthew 5:17-19 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[homwardbound]

Those who claim salvation in Christ, and say that the Law is a thing of the past, and has no purpose are truly missing the boat. They think that the Mosaic Law only condemns, and now through Christ, the law becomes a detriment to salvation. Why don’t those people just rip out all the writing of Moses from the Bible they bought at the Christian bookstore, and fall on their knees and confess to God that they now are not hindered with this condemnation anymore? Cling to the verse that says, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit,” and reject the Mosaic Law. Why don’t they just deny the Law completely so they don’t have to deny themselves? Throw away the foundation that supports the need for salvation, and continue to turn a blind eye to the fact that the Mosaic Law is much more than condemnation.

The Law itself is perfect and Holy, but whenever it flows in flesh that is weak, flesh can't stand and is the purpose of the Law to the first Chosen to show us our inability to be perfect in our flesh.
So the only solution is to by the death od Christ consider self dead as well with Christ that one might gain the resurrection, through death to self
[h=3]Romans 5:10[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)


[SUP]10 [/SUP]For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

[h=3]Romans 6:11[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)


[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The death does not save it leads one through the death to be saved by the life, if one will agree to be dead to self as Paul did and was able to say
Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.


So without one in agreement with God to be dead to self, one can't see the resurrected life
Philippians 3:8
Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ

 

[just-me]

Asking for forgiveness over and over again is a substantial part of picking up our cross and following Jesus. If we can't see this truth we won't be able to do it. Only if we repent from the sin we commit, is what stops us from having to be forgiven of the particular sin because it is not longer there. If we think for a minute that we have nothing else that needs be forgiven, we are not following Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Ditto Paul! You’re right on brother!!!! Right on

 

[zone]

Can flesh please God ever?

home, i know what you're trying to say. but the excessive use of "flesh" might be working against you.

God has ordained works that we walk in (good works, christian good works) - we are in a flesh body (which of itself is NOT EVIL). if there's some way to do a bit of looking into what the Gnostics believed, it would help you balance what you're saying. cuz at times it sounds like gnostic stuff (material / flesh is evil: spirit is good / divine).

just an idea.

 

[just-me]

If we consider ourselves as dead, then we don't have the education to realize that only the Priest did the slaughtering. Considering ourselves as dead bypass the incense of prayer that only the High Priest could offer according to the commandments, and ordinances given by God. You then are admitting that you have the capability of bypassing the High Priest. That's what Nadab and Abihu did, and they were smoked.

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[homwardbound]

Yes you can.

All the great men of God had love, they did not have the law

Love does not look at the law. Love looks at other people and loves them. Doing this by design of God, you will not break the law. You do not need to know the law to do this, It is proven by non believers who NEVER even seen the law loving others and doing for them.

Example.

I love my wife. I do not need the law to tell me do not commit adultry, Since I love my wife, the thought would not even come to my mind.

Law and Punishment can it be separated?
I know I have never had a cop pull me over and say to me Howard I want to reward you for driving so well, have any of you?
Law pulls over law breakers and what ever punishment is in order to pay.
God's Law is much stricter, punishment for breaking Law is death period? Sin caused death
Now Christ died for our deserving death's to bring us to Father, to give us new life in the Spirit of God. Not for us to go on sinning in the flesh how can we who have died to flesh,
[h=3]Romans 6[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Dead to Sin, Alive to God[/h]6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, [SUP]6 [/SUP]knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For he who has died has been freed from sin. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, [SUP]9 [/SUP]knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Do we not see this that through death our consent to death with Christ, brings life with Father in God's Spirit where no sin can occur since all sin has been

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

So why are we all going after to be something we cannot be in and of our flesh, when through Christ he already did what is needed for us to be through him to be alive in God the Father, by the death and resurrected Christ
Hebrews 9:24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

Colossians 1:22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—

Ask God and see what God by Christ has done for you, you and you, and thus rejoice with thanksgiving and praise as King David did before Christ ever appeared seeing afar off Christ coming
Psalm 100:4 Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, And into His courts with praise. Be thankful to Him, and bless His name.

And Job as well seeding this too!
Job 19:25 For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;

 

[zone]

Asking for forgiveness over and over again is a substantial part of picking up our cross and following Jesus. If we can't see this truth we won't be able to do it. Only if we repent from the sin we commit, is what stops us from having to be forgiven of the particular sin because it is not longer there. If we think for a minute that we have nothing else that needs be forgiven, we are not following Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

Ditto Paul! You’re right on brother!!!! Right on

uh......this particular passage isn't the one where Paul is teaching about sin.

I face death every day--yes, just as surely as I boast about you in Christ Jesus our Lord.

he's talking about his sufferings and persecutions. something we know nothing about.
he's saying: I am continually exposed to death.
i.e:

As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
and they were.
some are today.

Asking for forgiveness over and over again is a substantial part of picking up our cross and following Jesus. If we can't see this truth we won't be able to do it. Only if we repent from the sin we commit, is what stops us from having to be forgiven of the particular sin because it is not longer there. If we think for a minute that we have nothing else that needs be forgiven, we are not following Christ.

i think most of us know that.
the Spirit works the conviction in us.
confession of our sins is a gift

1 John 1:19
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

nobody enjoys it when they sin.
but we He forgives.
and we ought to go peace...and determine to sin no more.

fortunately, He is still there for us, when we do.

 

[homwardbound]

Did you or did you not give an oath to your wife, i.e. enter into a coventant? What is that coventant held by in your country that gives your legal rights to give her your last name? last i looked we are commanded to even obey the laws of the land unless they try and supersede the law of God.

Those that are fully submerged in Christ's death, see the resurrection and are right now raised in the new life that we all have been called to be in and obey the Laws of the Land, by Faith in God's type of love best described in !Cor. 13:4-13, that no flesh is capable of ever doing complete, but is done in God's Spirit and complete in you all that believe God, and God spreads this love throughout our new beings, that began at the heart transplant in the resurrected Christ in the Spirit of God through one believing God, that it is all God and none of us.
That we have received everything we need for life and Godliness through the finished work of Christ, that presents us Holy
[h=3]Colossians 1:22[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—

Once one sees this finished work then new life manifests in the one that is in agreement to die to self
Counting all their works prior to this death agreement to self as rubbish as Paul saw and wrote in Phil 3 to us all.