Saved by Law?

[RedTent]

Don't project your want onto most people.

The law is clear; he that loves his neighbor as himself has fulfilled the righteousness required by GOD's laws. That means he loves GOD as well.

Only God can make you holy and righteous, you can't do it by loving your neighbor. By not wanting any description or example of love that God gives you is turning your back on a wonderful blessing God holds out to you. If you are a son of Adam, you can use any help God offers you.

 

[just-me]

Don't project your want onto most people.

The law is clear; he that loves his neighbor as himself has fulfilled the righteousness required by GOD's laws. That means he loves GOD as well.

Leviticus 19:11-18 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Thought I'd help. God bless

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Only God can make you holy and righteous, you can't do it by loving your neighbor. By not wanting any description or example of love that God gives you is turning your back on a wonderful blessing God holds out to you. If you are a son of Adam, you can use any help God offers you.

You need to start believing what the bible says:

For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit murder, you shall not steal, you shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are summed up in this statement: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does not commit evil against a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:9-10
​

 

[WeStand]

I think most people want the description of love so they can identify between the love of God and the love of man.

Sacred and Hallowed be the name of The Father of the families of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob-Israel.

The Father of The Covenant that was made in Love through these families, who IS The Spirit of Love, to whom most certainly does belong ALL of the Praise, in both the negative and OUR positive Universe.

For the Glory and the Honour in the way in which He rules MoreNaturally in the Majesty of His Fairness

The Creator of Life & The Source of Love, The MOST powerful, positive physical force and might, in both the negative and Our Positive Universe.

Always has been, still IS and Always will Be, Forever and Ever. That's That (Amen)

Study THIS Covenant, in due text ( or in other words; don't skip over the information prior to it) then one can understand the difference between Gods Love and the love of man.

 

[just-me]

Israel, and their disobedience would teach them a lesson in the following verses. Read close and you will see that before Israel received the laws on Mount Sinai, they were instructed to obey everything God would tell them to do. By not obeying the law God gave to Moses later, God gave up on them, by saying they might as well do what they wanted. He insinuates by them rejecting His ordinances, they were going backwards to what they were before any instruction they were given.

Luke 9:62 (KJV)
[SUP]62 [/SUP]And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

Does the law save us today by following it? No. But..... Once we are born again our attitude toward God matters, having our salvation confirmed or refuted by the will (spirit) that is within us no matter how we act outwardly. Desire that comes from the heart must be recognized in truth to ourselves.

Jeremiah 7:17-24 (CJB)
17 Don't you see what they are doing in the cities of Y'hudah and in the streets of Yerushalayim? 18 The children gather the wood, the fathers light the fire, and the women knead the dough to make cakes for the queen of heaven; and, just to provoke me, they pour out drink offerings to other gods! 19 Are they really provoking me," asks ADONAI, "or are they provoking themselves, to their own ruin?" 20 Therefore, here is what Adonai ELOHIM says: "My anger and fury will be poured out on this place, on men, animals, trees in the fields and produce growing from the ground; and it will burn without being quenched." 21 Thus says ADONAI-Tzva'ot, the God of Isra'el: "You may as well eat the meat of your burnt offerings along with that of your sacrifices. 22 For I didn't speak to your ancestors or give them orders concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices when I brought them out of the land of Egypt. 23 Rather, what I did order them was this: 'Pay attention to what I say. Then I will be your God, and you will be my people. In everything, live according to the way that I order you, so that things will go well for you.' 24 But they neither listened nor paid attention, but lived according to their own plans, in the stubbornness of their evil hearts, thus going backward and not forward.

 

[CRUCIFIEDWITHCHRIST]

The law drives a man to Christ. God clearly shows his will and the man sees that he needs a miracle in his life to do what Jesus says to do. Jesus commands to love our neighbor as he loves us . The only way this is going to happen is Jesus has to do it in the vessel in our lives. We cant love with perfect love , charity as it is called, with sin in the heart. to love with pure heart we call on the lord to save us from our sin. To believe the truth that it has been done , Jesus has won the battle. Jesus wants us to believe only. He has taken away our sins. does one believe they still have their sins or do they believe the great physician has taken it all out the heart? Now we cant believe we are free from sin with perfect love if we are still sinning and still in bondage. Thank God he came not to condemn but to save us from it. The way to come to believe steadfast faith unwavering is to humble down and confess that we do not believe if we see that we are not believing, if we are still sinning. To receive by faith all the abundance of grace to overcome the devil being born of God. He gets all the glory

 

[Kerry]

For the life of me, I don't understand why we are debating this law stuff. I thought that God told Daniel that knowledge would increase. All I see from post on this and other threads is that we are getting dumber. I think that we are getting blind because of our lack of faith and holiness. Christ is our righteousness, but we want to hold to what we are doing. There is nothing you can do. If you could then why the cross. Why do people that love God reject the cross. I am in bewilderment. Have we become so good that we no longer need the cross.

It is the cross that set us free, it is the cross that breaks the chains of drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, dip, anger, hate, racism, pornograhpy, adultrey, You name it. No keeping law can do that, yes we strive to obey His word and if we put our faith in the cross the Holy Spirit will help us to keep that word. However if our faith is moved to something else, such as a prayer shawl, or wearing a beanie, or fasting for 21 days, or 40 days of purpose, or new and improved miracle spring water, or whatever new fad the church comes up with. The message is 2 thousand years old and is just as true today as it was then. Jesus Christ and Him crucified and nothing else. What is so difficult to accept that?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What is so difficult to accept that?

No faith...

 

[jandian]

Well, this is impossible for me to do, as I am not a gifted linguist. It depends on what one considers the Scriptures to be, and I assure you they are not English, as this is just a translation.

Though in English they will aide ones faith, they do nothing in coming to the knowledge of GOD ALMIGHTY`s Word.

Genesis The Whole Truth. The rest of the Bible, the unfolding of what was said in Genesis.

Genesis, The strong foundation in which Salvation in and through Christ,Messiah was prophesied by Our Father, not some man.

Does Not line up with any religion, Christian or otherwise.

Are you serious????

 

[josh123]

You Bettcha! Because of the pathetic bul____, oops, I mean English translation of THE SCRIPTURES (NOT in bul____,English)

But in Truth. HEBREW.

People actually believe that they are not under THE LAW/COMMANDMENTS. what completely delusional people they are.

Lets see; tonight, I think i'll go and lie in wait for some poor sucker, clobber him/her over the head, take their money and jewelry and if I get caught, i'll just say; I didn't do it, prove it.

This IS the theme of The 10 Commandments, the rest of the 7, though can be done in different ways; the bottom line worst violation of them, are about having the wrong Father.

They only apply to a person IF they don't follow the 2 Greatest Commandments of ALL.

The 2 Commandments that Our Father gave, the same 2 Christ/Messiah Confirmed & Affirmed.

Otherwise, if one doesn't love their neighbour (as much as one is able to, for it is not possible, if they don't let you) then rest assured, one is surely under the 10.

In reality, go to your neighbour, and start to witness what you believe, and see and feel for a reality, what it is actually like, to be persecuted, or snowed over with pretentious garbage. I Dare You!

smh... no1 can be a christian without christ in us.16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.Galatians 2:1 and we will know what to do when we receive christ in us..When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. [h=3]John 16:13[/h]

 

[josh123]

For the life of me, I don't understand why we are debating this law stuff. I thought that God told Daniel that knowledge would increase. All I see from post on this and other threads is that we are getting dumber. I think that we are getting blind because of our lack of faith and holiness. Christ is our righteousness, but we want to hold to what we are doing. There is nothing you can do. If you could then why the cross. Why do people that love God reject the cross. I am in bewilderment. Have we become so good that we no longer need the cross.

It is the cross that set us free, it is the cross that breaks the chains of drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, dip, anger, hate, racism, pornograhpy, adultrey, You name it. No keeping law can do that, yes we strive to obey His word and if we put our faith in the cross the Holy Spirit will help us to keep that word. However if our faith is moved to something else, such as a prayer shawl, or wearing a beanie, or fasting for 21 days, or 40 days of purpose, or new and improved miracle spring water, or whatever new fad the church comes up with. The message is 2 thousand years old and is just as true today as it was then. Jesus Christ and Him crucified and nothing else. What is so difficult to accept that?

PLEASE PREACH THE TRUTH! And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.[h=3]Luke 9:23 none of them are doing this they are leaning on their own understand.. and denying themselve of their own salvation. tell me this if we need to keep the law why did jesus died for our sins?[/h]

 

[crossnote]

For the life of me, I don't understand why we are debating this law stuff. I thought that God told Daniel that knowledge would increase. All I see from post on this and other threads is that we are getting dumber. I think that we are getting blind because of our lack of faith and holiness. Christ is our righteousness, but we want to hold to what we are doing. There is nothing you can do. If you could then why the cross. Why do people that love God reject the cross. I am in bewilderment. Have we become so good that we no longer need the cross.

It is the cross that set us free, it is the cross that breaks the chains of drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, dip, anger, hate, racism, pornograhpy, adultrey, You name it. No keeping law can do that, yes we strive to obey His word and if we put our faith in the cross the Holy Spirit will help us to keep that word. However if our faith is moved to something else, such as a prayer shawl, or wearing a beanie, or fasting for 21 days, or 40 days of purpose, or new and improved miracle spring water, or whatever new fad the church comes up with. The message is 2 thousand years old and is just as true today as it was then. Jesus Christ and Him crucified and nothing else. What is so difficult to accept that?

Kerry,
I believe it is part of the apostasy (a pistis) or a moving away from faith in the Person of Christ and reverting back to law which of course points us back to ourselves. This movement seems to be spearheaded by factions within the Messianic Movement which wants to get back to it's roots in the Torah even if it means by passing the Gospel which was plainly elucidated by Paul. Yes Jesus died for our sins, but it was Paul who clearly laid out the meaning of that death and the beautiful ramifications for us believers. But apparently many want to cling to Mt. Sinai rather than Calvary.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But apparently many want to cling to Mt. Sinai rather than Calvary.

Unbelief has no other option...

 

[WeStand]

I don't type at a very fast pace, in fact i'm just a one finger henpecker; so to address all the above posts that are saying things like no faith, and that the law doesn't save; I would like to re-address what I responded to Blain.

When anyone claims to be a Christian; I guess I don't presume, but rather assume (ass-u-me), that one already KNOWS that Christ/Messiah IS the ONLY true way to attain true salvation.

IF one has heard what Christ taught, then it is impossible to disreguard the 10 Commandments. Statutes and Ordinances of the law are a different story.

To take the statement; that to just believe that Christ died on the cross for our sins, and that whomsoever believes that he is the Son of God and rose from the dead, will be saved; well this doesn't make the cut.

For I have observed 10's of thousands of people that claim this, but in their daily lives, they grumble, complain, gossip about their neighbour (and a neighbour to me, is anyone. not just one in close proximity) worry about the things of this world, slander those in charge, and God knows whatever else.

If one claims to be Christ's (Christian) then tell me why they carry on like this? (as I did the same thing myself for 40 years, believing in Christ)

It is The Fathers Commandments in practise that guides our behaviour in Christ, and until one exercises these Commandments, well they just carry on as stated above.

Then there is the other extreme; Christians that say life is great, exhilarating, full of endless possibilities, live life to the fullest, be all that you can be, always look on the bright side of life, it only takes one person to make a difference etc...

This is turning a blind eye, to the realities that are taking place around the world; that attitude that says, well everything is fine with me; must be something wrong with them, I dunno don't really care, its their problem.

To me anyways; the teachings that come to my mind about this, would be Christ's temptation after receiving the Holy Spirit; and The Fathers example of Moses facing off against Jambres and Jannes.

And about this cross thing, that I most certainly do have the highest reguard and respect for; Why do Christians preach only the 3rd significant purpose of it? seems awefully strange to me.

Reason #1 To Defeat Death who is Satan, the devil etc......

Reason #2 To fufill The Father's spoken and recorded WORD about it.

Reason #3 To provide a High Preist for one & ALL; Israelites & Heathens a new way (New Testament) of how to Contact Our Father; IF, IF, IF, you do it Christ's way as he taught; NOT the way that some man, any man suggests you should.

Christ; wipeing out over 600 cumbersome laws, that were before-hand, required of Israel, to make Contact with The Father.

Now just 10 Commandments; 3 Statutes, and 1 Ordinance = cleanse yourself's in the daily sinners prayer, before approaching The Father, leave the I's out of the contact, unless its; I love you Father, I MISS you Father, and Thank-You Father for helping me to understand Your WILL. The rest had better be about; Your other children Father, how can I be of a help to You, to help them understand?

For ALL Soul's belongth unto ME! thus saith The LORD, The Father of Lights.You cannot give yourself to GOD ALMIGHTY. He already owns you.

Anything else one wants to Know, ask Christ, for he is with us 24/7/365, he has always been here, still is and always will be, and he helps in split second timing, when its needed, not wanted.

Another thing that I have observed about faith at this time from many and most Christians, they appear to me to have more faith in Doctors and medicine than they do Christ; personally I find the faith in the world at this time to be very shallow and pretentious.

Prayer is OUR greatest tool and weapon; I just wonder myself how many of these Christians when in need of a healing, are asking The Father for one in and through the name of Christ/Messiah: or are they asking Christ/Messiah for a healing in error.

 

[WeStand]

Are you serious????

Yay!

 

[just-me]

Related to this thread I thought I'd start another one called Most of the 4 Gospels are part of the Old Testament

It might answer many questions believers have had for years, or something they have never thought about which I think is very important.

 

[cfultz3]

Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

To whom are we are obedient?

To God through the Holy Spirit who speaks the ways of God to us. We know that His ways (nature) never changes, He is the same always.​

What does God consider unrighteous?

Those things which are contrary to the essence of His nature. Namely, those things not done in love, those things which are contrary to the spoken essence of His nature, the commandments. Of which commands, they are summarized as: love God with all you have, and love others as you love yourself. Love fulfills the Law. If one does not love, then he knows not God, seeing that God is Love. Yes, the one who does not love, abides in death, the sentencing from the Law.

We obey not the Law for our standing before God, we obey God who speaks only of those things which defines His essence and requires us to walk pleasingly according to that will. Indeed, we have not been freed from the physical requirements of the Law so that we could walk contrary to the known will of God, but by love, we spiritually fulfill that same will. Let us, therefore, walk spiritually (by love) and not physically (by Law) before our Lord, knowing that we are to worship God by the spirit and not the letter of the Law.​

What becomes of those who walk contrary to God's ways, that is, walk in unrighteousness?

Indignation and wrath awaits them.
​

 

[just-me]

To whom are we are obedient?

To God through the Holy Spirit who speaks the ways of God to us. We know that His ways (nature) never changes, He is the same always.​

What does God consider unrighteous?

Those things which are contrary to the essence of His nature. Namely, those things not done in love, those things which are contrary to the spoken essence of His nature, the commandments. Of which commands, they are summarized as: love God with all you have, and love others as you love yourself. Love fulfills the Law. If one does not love, then he knows not God, seeing that God is Love. Yes, the one who does not love, abides in death, the sentencing from the Law.

We obey not the Law for our standing before God, we obey God who speaks only of those things which defines His essence and requires us to walk pleasingly according to that will. Indeed, we have not been freed from the physical requirements of the Law so that we could walk contrary to the known will of God, but by love, we spiritually fulfill that same will. Let us, therefore, walk spiritually (by love) and not physically (by Law) before our Lord, knowing that we are to worship God by the spirit and not the letter of the Law.​

What becomes of those who walk contrary to God's ways, that is, walk in unrighteousness?

Indignation and wrath awaits them.
​

Adding to or subtracting from God's creation is sinning - that's what Satan does.

 

[Angela53510]

please answer using the scripture above so that i can be sure its not being ignored to perpetuate what we prefer to believe.

You failed to quote the book and chapter. I need to look it up in context!!

Just wondering why there is such a push in this forum by the legalists to constantly prove that we need to be under law? Very sad for them -Praying they will find the grace and mercy of God!

"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [SUP]9 [/SUP]not a result of works, so that no one may boast. [SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Eph. 2:8-10

Notice the "works" come after, which were prepared beforehand by CHRIST - not of ourselves lest anyone should boast!

 

[josh123]

Adding to or subtracting from God's creation is sinning - that's what Satan does.

explain to me what he said wrong?