There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity
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My understanding of this topic, will not define whether or not I will be saved. I acknowledge your passion about the make-up of man, but to me it is just interesting, and that is all, it is an interesting discussion, but a peripheral topic nonetheless.
We certainly will not be able to solve the mystery between us because we do not have enough information to make an intelligent or spiritual decision. Like I said, ask 10,000 Christians and you will be surprised at the non-consensus nature of this topic. I have a thought.
Go to your church and have a statement of you belief on the make-up of man as you have outlined to me. Then ask the important questions: 1) do you believe this statement fully? and 2) If you do not believe it, please tell me what you believe the make-up of man is. Then give them a couple of weeks to respond and start the count. I believe you will be surprised and a little confused at the array of beliefs that accompany this topic. Good Luck.
Now you have chastised me for not answering your questions, but you have not responded to my responses. So here is what I would like you to respond to and then if you want to drop the subject all together, that will be ok with me.
First question: You stated what happens to the soul when the body dies and goes into the grave? I felt like I had answered that question, the soul is separated for a time as the body part of the soul goes into the grave and the spirit of the soul lives on in a spirit environment, either spirit paradise or spirit prison awaiting the resurrection when the body and the spirit will be united agian and the sould will be whole again. You did not respond, so I would like to know how you feel about my answer.
Second question: You stated that when Jesus died he went to Paradise. I again answered what I believe happened to Jesus after his death on the cross, his work in the spirit world and his resurrection and ascension. Respond to that too, please.
And thank you for the discussion, we all learn a little from each other even though we may not agree totally.
We certainly will not be able to solve the mystery between us because we do not have enough information to make an intelligent or spiritual decision. Like I said, ask 10,000 Christians and you will be surprised at the non-consensus nature of this topic. I have a thought.
Go to your church and have a statement of you belief on the make-up of man as you have outlined to me. Then ask the important questions: 1) do you believe this statement fully? and 2) If you do not believe it, please tell me what you believe the make-up of man is. Then give them a couple of weeks to respond and start the count. I believe you will be surprised and a little confused at the array of beliefs that accompany this topic. Good Luck.
Now you have chastised me for not answering your questions, but you have not responded to my responses. So here is what I would like you to respond to and then if you want to drop the subject all together, that will be ok with me.
First question: You stated what happens to the soul when the body dies and goes into the grave? I felt like I had answered that question, the soul is separated for a time as the body part of the soul goes into the grave and the spirit of the soul lives on in a spirit environment, either spirit paradise or spirit prison awaiting the resurrection when the body and the spirit will be united agian and the sould will be whole again. You did not respond, so I would like to know how you feel about my answer.
Second question: You stated that when Jesus died he went to Paradise. I again answered what I believe happened to Jesus after his death on the cross, his work in the spirit world and his resurrection and ascension. Respond to that too, please.
And thank you for the discussion, we all learn a little from each other even though we may not agree totally.
It is notr up to us, Flesh unredeemed to decide that.
God is the one that lnows and I choose to trust God to do this:
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
And we are all called to bneliev3e to be one in God with and through Son, clearly stated in John
God is the one that lnows and I choose to trust God to do this:
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
And we are all called to bneliev3e to be one in God with and through Son, clearly stated in John
Jesus is not God
When the resurrected Jesus met Mary near the garden tomb, he told her not to touch him because he had not ascended to his God. He further told Mary to go and tell the apostles he was going to "my God", and "your God". (John 20:17)
If Jesus were "God", he would not have told Mary these things, and this scripture makes no sense.
Since Jesus is "the Son of God", the scripture makes perfect sense.
When the resurrected Jesus met Mary near the garden tomb, he told her not to touch him because he had not ascended to his God. He further told Mary to go and tell the apostles he was going to "my God", and "your God". (John 20:17)
If Jesus were "God", he would not have told Mary these things, and this scripture makes no sense.
Since Jesus is "the Son of God", the scripture makes perfect sense.
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E
Disagree.
1. As Son of God. Jesus would be God. because only God can be a true son of God
2. Jesus said he was in existance before abraham. thus he was not mere man.
3. Scripture says Jesus had no beginning. Only God always existed (ie jesus was not a created being)
4. Jesus was the God of Israel. Proven by many OT facts.
5. Thomas Called Jesus God, And Jesus did not correct him.
6. The author of Hebrews calls Jesus God
7. The Apostle John wrote the gospel of John. And called Jesus God.
unless you want to make all these people liars. Understand. Jesus is God.
Just because the "Father" may be in Charge does not means Jesus is not also God. You have to realise the character of God and what makes on God to understand.
1. As Son of God. Jesus would be God. because only God can be a true son of God
2. Jesus said he was in existance before abraham. thus he was not mere man.
3. Scripture says Jesus had no beginning. Only God always existed (ie jesus was not a created being)
4. Jesus was the God of Israel. Proven by many OT facts.
5. Thomas Called Jesus God, And Jesus did not correct him.
6. The author of Hebrews calls Jesus God
7. The Apostle John wrote the gospel of John. And called Jesus God.
unless you want to make all these people liars. Understand. Jesus is God.
Just because the "Father" may be in Charge does not means Jesus is not also God. You have to realise the character of God and what makes on God to understand.
Jesis is God.
Matt 22.41 - 46
But the Pharisees having been gathered, Jesus questioned them, saying, What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is He? They say to Him, David's. He said to them, Then how does David in Spirit call Him Lord, saying, "The Lord said to my Lord, Sit off My right until I should put Your hostile ones as a footstool for Your feet?"(Psalm110.1) Then if David calls Him Lord, how is He his son? And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day to question Him any more.
There you have it.
God The Father and God The Son.
Equal.
Father, Son, Spirit.
Simple Biblical Truth.
Matt 22.41 - 46
But the Pharisees having been gathered, Jesus questioned them, saying, What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is He? They say to Him, David's. He said to them, Then how does David in Spirit call Him Lord, saying, "The Lord said to my Lord, Sit off My right until I should put Your hostile ones as a footstool for Your feet?"(Psalm110.1) Then if David calls Him Lord, how is He his son? And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day to question Him any more.
There you have it.
God The Father and God The Son.
Equal.
Father, Son, Spirit.
Simple Biblical Truth.
I believe your thought this way: As Son of God, Jesus must be a God, because only a God can be a true son of God.
This is now a logical statement. If the "unbegotten God" is going to have a Son, that "only begotten Son" will be a God in his own right. See the first chapter of Hebrews to confirm this.
I agree with this.
I agree Jesus had no beginning and has always existed. But so has God, who begat Jesus. We can not disregard the word "begotten" (John 3:16). So again, what we have here is the unbegotten God sired a Son who is a God also. Being begotten did not mean that Jesus was created. It means he was "added upon". In the eternities before the earth, Jesus's form was "spirit". Then when it was time to save the world, Jesus came to earth and was begotten by God (God was literally the Father of Jesus's flesh and bone body) Jesus's spirit was incarnated into his mortal body. (He was added upon). His form changed from "spirit" to "flesh and bone and spirit" and he was mortal, but remember his mortal Father was God, so now in his human form, he was both a mortal and a God. When he died on the cross his spirit left his body and his body was put in the tomb, and in a spirit form again, he went to Paradise and to preach to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:19). After 3 days in the spirit form, his spirit was reunited with his body and he came out of the tomb a glorious resurrected man, with a body of flesh and bone and spirit. (Luke 24:39) It is this form that Jesus is still in today and for all eternity.
Begotten = added upon and distinguishes Jesus from God.
I agree with you on this. Jesus was the God of Israel. There never is a doubt about his Godhood. He is just not the same God that sired him. See 3 above. Jesus was given the power and authority to create everything in the universe by his Father, God. He was given power and authority to lead the Israelites by his Father, God. He sat on the right hand of God before the world was created, he sits on the right had of God today waiting his second coming.
Why would he, if he is the God of all the Israelites, he is also the God of Thomas. He just is not the same God that begat him. see 3 above. On a side note, he was called many names and he did not correct those that said for instance, "thou Son of God", or "blessed art thou that come in the name of the Lord" etc, etc, etc.
You are right. ...therefore God, even thy God hath annointed you with the oil...(Hebrews 1:9) God calls Himself the God of Jesus, and it was the God of Jesus that anointed Jesus (another God) with the oil...
In the 5th chapter of Revelations, John distinguishes between Jesus's Father who is God, "the one that sits on the throne," and Jesus himself, who is the "Lamb of God." Notice is verse 7 the Lamb of God who is Jesus took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. So here is Jesus standing in front of his Father God, the one sitting on the throne and his God, hands Jesus a book and Jesus takes the book out of the right hand of him that sat on the throne.
So your right Jesus is a God, he is just not the same God that begat him, or that is sitting on the throne in Revelations.
So who is the liar? God says that He is Jesus's God in Hebrews. That probably trumps Thomas, Paul, and John.
But nobody is lying!!!! Jesus is a God, just not the same God as his Father, God.
This is now a logical statement. If the "unbegotten God" is going to have a Son, that "only begotten Son" will be a God in his own right. See the first chapter of Hebrews to confirm this.
I agree with this.
I agree Jesus had no beginning and has always existed. But so has God, who begat Jesus. We can not disregard the word "begotten" (John 3:16). So again, what we have here is the unbegotten God sired a Son who is a God also. Being begotten did not mean that Jesus was created. It means he was "added upon". In the eternities before the earth, Jesus's form was "spirit". Then when it was time to save the world, Jesus came to earth and was begotten by God (God was literally the Father of Jesus's flesh and bone body) Jesus's spirit was incarnated into his mortal body. (He was added upon). His form changed from "spirit" to "flesh and bone and spirit" and he was mortal, but remember his mortal Father was God, so now in his human form, he was both a mortal and a God. When he died on the cross his spirit left his body and his body was put in the tomb, and in a spirit form again, he went to Paradise and to preach to the spirits in prison (1 Peter 3:19). After 3 days in the spirit form, his spirit was reunited with his body and he came out of the tomb a glorious resurrected man, with a body of flesh and bone and spirit. (Luke 24:39) It is this form that Jesus is still in today and for all eternity.
Begotten = added upon and distinguishes Jesus from God.
I agree with you on this. Jesus was the God of Israel. There never is a doubt about his Godhood. He is just not the same God that sired him. See 3 above. Jesus was given the power and authority to create everything in the universe by his Father, God. He was given power and authority to lead the Israelites by his Father, God. He sat on the right hand of God before the world was created, he sits on the right had of God today waiting his second coming.
Why would he, if he is the God of all the Israelites, he is also the God of Thomas. He just is not the same God that begat him. see 3 above. On a side note, he was called many names and he did not correct those that said for instance, "thou Son of God", or "blessed art thou that come in the name of the Lord" etc, etc, etc.
You are right. ...therefore God, even thy God hath annointed you with the oil...(Hebrews 1:9) God calls Himself the God of Jesus, and it was the God of Jesus that anointed Jesus (another God) with the oil...
In the 5th chapter of Revelations, John distinguishes between Jesus's Father who is God, "the one that sits on the throne," and Jesus himself, who is the "Lamb of God." Notice is verse 7 the Lamb of God who is Jesus took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. So here is Jesus standing in front of his Father God, the one sitting on the throne and his God, hands Jesus a book and Jesus takes the book out of the right hand of him that sat on the throne.
So your right Jesus is a God, he is just not the same God that begat him, or that is sitting on the throne in Revelations.
So who is the liar? God says that He is Jesus's God in Hebrews. That probably trumps Thomas, Paul, and John.
But nobody is lying!!!! Jesus is a God, just not the same God as his Father, God.
Who knows I believe God and God does not lie, man does and God said
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 11:26 and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
John 11:42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 11:45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
John 13:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
John 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
And the cross has come to pass and it is finished and we that believe are saved no and ifs or buts about God's word, if interpreted rightly so, led by God in all truth that set me free
He did it all for us to be born again in Spirit considering self dead to flesh with Christ's death in the flesh and alive in Spirit where that is the only way God can be worshipped in Spirit and truth John 4:23-24
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 11:26 and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
John 11:42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 11:45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which Jesus did, believed on him.
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
John 13:19 Now I tell you before it come, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he.
John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
John 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
John 14:29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
And the cross has come to pass and it is finished and we that believe are saved no and ifs or buts about God's word, if interpreted rightly so, led by God in all truth that set me free
He did it all for us to be born again in Spirit considering self dead to flesh with Christ's death in the flesh and alive in Spirit where that is the only way God can be worshipped in Spirit and truth John 4:23-24
C
My question was directed at Trinitarians and their theology.
It has nothing to do with believing or not believing.
You didn't answer my question unless you were saying a believer must believe in the teaching of eternal sonship too.
But whatever you do, don't give me that Marie Harf treatment
Reporter to State Department: 'You're Unable To Give A Straight Answer' - YouTube
It has nothing to do with believing or not believing.
You didn't answer my question unless you were saying a believer must believe in the teaching of eternal sonship too.
But whatever you do, don't give me that Marie Harf treatment
Reporter to State Department: 'You're Unable To Give A Straight Answer' - YouTube
