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E
well no, why bring men into it? You know I do not follow men. I research and make up my own mind. .
I am looking at the church which started in 300 AD. Which can trace most of its pagan rituals back to the original babylon itself.
If you do not think she influences nations and their kings. You do not know much about her. She has her own embassadors in most nations. And national leaders consult her on doing things
She killed true believers for hunderds of years. She probably has more murders of the saints of God than the original roman empire.
And she may not be killing saints where you live, but in some parts of the world. I am sure she still practices her evil ways.
I am looking at the church which started in 300 AD. Which can trace most of its pagan rituals back to the original babylon itself.
If you do not think she influences nations and their kings. You do not know much about her. She has her own embassadors in most nations. And national leaders consult her on doing things
She killed true believers for hunderds of years. She probably has more murders of the saints of God than the original roman empire.
And she may not be killing saints where you live, but in some parts of the world. I am sure she still practices her evil ways.
E
lol.. The beast kills the harlot. So tell me. How can they be the same?
The beast is the empire which comes from the part of the world the first beast came from. Nothing says it has to be rome, although it may be. But the catholic church does not rule the whole city. So if the beast destroyed the catholic part. it would not be destroying the whole city. Not to mention. It is not even called rome now is it?
The beast is the empire which comes from the part of the world the first beast came from. Nothing says it has to be rome, although it may be. But the catholic church does not rule the whole city. So if the beast destroyed the catholic part. it would not be destroying the whole city. Not to mention. It is not even called rome now is it?
E
No you do not have to. When God uses symbols he uses symbols to represent a literal thing.
The beast were symbols used to represent literal kingdoms (namely the kings who ruled those kingdoms)
The roman church got into trouble spiritualizing things and making an allegory of things, in order to insert her pagan rites into the things of God. why would you want to follow her lead?
Why must you assume that the literal city to be destroyed is a spiritual representation of soemthing? When nothing in the prophesy would lead it to even think that?
The beast were symbols used to represent literal kingdoms (namely the kings who ruled those kingdoms)
The roman church got into trouble spiritualizing things and making an allegory of things, in order to insert her pagan rites into the things of God. why would you want to follow her lead?
Why must you assume that the literal city to be destroyed is a spiritual representation of soemthing? When nothing in the prophesy would lead it to even think that?
E
why would I have to?
You do not agree she has probably killed more prophets saints than any nation or religion. Including islam?
it says in her was the blood of prophets and saints. You would disagree with this summation? (remember, The pagan church did not start in 300 AD, it started in babylon, it just changed its name. It still follows more than one God, It still makes God out of its own saints, And still worships the "mother of God")
You do not agree she has probably killed more prophets saints than any nation or religion. Including islam?
it says in her was the blood of prophets and saints. You would disagree with this summation? (remember, The pagan church did not start in 300 AD, it started in babylon, it just changed its name. It still follows more than one God, It still makes God out of its own saints, And still worships the "mother of God")
Yes but I think you are taking the symbols literally and not as the literal thing.
I don't take the literal city to be destroyed as a spiritual respresentation of something, I think this is what you are doing. The Harlot is a great city, and the city falls, is destroyed. You are saying the Harlot is a religious system and no where in the bible can a city be interpreted that way. The harlot and the great city, are one.
Do you actually believe that the Roman Catholic Church is going to fall?
I don't take the literal city to be destroyed as a spiritual respresentation of something, I think this is what you are doing. The Harlot is a great city, and the city falls, is destroyed. You are saying the Harlot is a religious system and no where in the bible can a city be interpreted that way. The harlot and the great city, are one.
Do you actually believe that the Roman Catholic Church is going to fall?
E
Not in this case. I am taking a literal city to mean a literal city. Where you are symbolizing the city. Why?
No you do not even take this. You symbolized the city by calling it spiritual jerusalem. And use this as an excuse as to why the city now has the things God said woudl NEVER be there again, are there.
I am taking a literal city also. Babylon has been headed in many cities. Including Babylon Greece and rome are three mjor cities in the past which were the heads of this organization of harlotry
If the end times things spoken in revelation occures in the near future I believe it will be destroyed. Not fall.. As John said it will
Yes, I agree with you. But Revelation (and Daniel) wasn't written primarily for us, but with 21st century Christians in mind, if it was written to us, then the 1st century readers wouldn't have a clue what John was talking about. John said they would know the individual Beast (the head of the beastly nation) by the number six hundred and sixty six). If it was meant for us in our day or future, then what John said to his 1st century audience was a lie and dis-service. Not only that, but he would have no reason not to give the meaning of the symbols of Revelation if it did not pertain to the institutions and individuals of his time. The reason for the symbols was to disguise it's contents from the ruling authorities, for was about them, and could have been destroyed.
E
Oh you mean like many of the OT prophecies? Do you think Daniel understood who rome was? or even Greece?
Prophesy of world events were always given centuries in advance. And revelation is speaking of things which occure at the end. So we would expect the things to occure at the end. Danile spoke of two romes. Not one, yet the first rome was in power at the time of Johns writings. People who understood the things of daniel would understand he spoke of the end. Even the disciples understood this (the time of your return)
Revelation was written for everyone, Like the whole bible was. It will be as revelent to people in the time of Christs kingdom as the prophesies of daniel are to us today.
I disagree whole heartedly. Daniel was given interpretation of things he could not understand. (in fact all the major prophets were given this type of prophesy) This is not new in prophetic literature.
Prophesy of world events were always given centuries in advance. And revelation is speaking of things which occure at the end. So we would expect the things to occure at the end. Danile spoke of two romes. Not one, yet the first rome was in power at the time of Johns writings. People who understood the things of daniel would understand he spoke of the end. Even the disciples understood this (the time of your return)
Revelation was written for everyone, Like the whole bible was. It will be as revelent to people in the time of Christs kingdom as the prophesies of daniel are to us today.
I disagree whole heartedly. Daniel was given interpretation of things he could not understand. (in fact all the major prophets were given this type of prophesy) This is not new in prophetic literature.
Revelation 18
2 And he cried mightily[a] with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! 3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”
2 And he cried mightily[a] with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! 3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”