Dr. Charles Stanley

[MsLimpet]

I started this thread with a good heart and great intentions. It got out of hand by everybody's opinions and quarreling, I was ready to announce my opinion yesterday and ask to get back to the original OP. If I am being accused of being a Jezebel that is casting judgement. I was protecting scripture at the best way that I knew how.

 

[PennEd]

The thief confessed Jesus which was a deed. The issue is the heart and whether one is restrained upon a cross is really immaterial.

Paul was not speaking to those who were restrained on crosses when he said "let your deeds prove your repentance." His sentiment was simply that if the repentance is real there will be a change in conduct. When Jesus would say "come follow me" it implied a walk in a certain direction be taken. One could not defy Jesus and follow Jesus at the same time, thus a genuine repentance is proven by deeds.

Preacher like Charles Stanley teach that the deeds change over a long period of time thus, in their view, deeds do not prove repentance but are rather a gradual result of sanctification. There is no genuine proof of repentance in the preaching of men like Charles Stanley, if there was they would not make the statements like I quoted above. Their message caters for ongoing vile conduct after salvation.

It is pretty simple really. Salvation either involves a total transformation of the heart or it does not. Men like Charles Stanley teach that it does not, in their mind salvation is purely forensic in nature. Thus one can be saved and still engaged in murder, lust, adultery, drunkenness or whatever sin one wishes to pick. They preach the service of two masters and deny that "obedience to the truth" is necessary. It is a very simple yet subtle deception. It is a deception which tickles the ears of many people who do not want to forsake sinful conduct and yield to God.

The example of the brazen serpent is beside the point. One cannot take one example in the Bible and claim it cancels out something else. The Bible is a harmonious whole, here a little and there a little. Jesus Himself preached repent and believe, Jesus Himself preached strive to enter in at the strait gate and narrow way which leads to life, Jesus Himself preached that it is the doers of the Father's will who will inherit the kingdom, Jesus preached that if we abide in Him and keep His commandments then He will also abide in us. Now obviously we can ignore all those teachings of Jesus and only focus on excising "believe" and "confess" verses from their larger context, but in doing so are we really in harmony with the truth?

I disagree with virtually everything you said in this post. One point is more disturbing than the next but 2 stick out. That you would so glibly dismiss Jesus' analogy with the fiery serpents is dismaying. Even more so is your idea that once your'e saved your'e not going to sin any longer and if you do it proves you are not saved. If you claim you are saved I'd like to ask you if you have ever lied, lusted, got drunk, or "whatever sin one wishes to pick" since you've been saved?

The Holy Spirit constantly refines, and transform our hearts to become more and more Christ-like, but we will NEVER be totally sinless til we receive our new bodies after our physical death.

 

[dcontroversal]

I started this thread with a good heart and great intentions. It got out of hand by everybody's opinions and quarreling, I was ready to announce my opinion yesterday and ask to get back to the original OP. If I am being accused of being a Jezebel that is casting judgement. I was protecting scripture at the best way that I knew how.

Did I miss someone calling you Jezebel?......I know I didn't!........

 

[VCO]

I believe the narrow gate is Jesus Christ himself. These whom cried "Lord, Lord" really didn't have a relationship the Lord, but rather wanted to use the Lord for their own gain.

Can you please describe for me what you think self-style worship looks like? I don't think you can, but I'd like to know what you think anyway. I would think that true worship is an act to God that generates from our hearts in Love for God no matter what it looks like.

Exactly they settled for something less than a genuine love relationship with Jesus as LORD, but the still think they are Christians, that is why they cry our LORD, LORD.

 

[MsLimpet]

Did I miss someone calling you Jezebel?......I know I didn't!........

in a round about way.

 

[VCO]

I believe the narrow gate is Jesus Christ himself. These whom cried "Lord, Lord" really didn't have a relationship the Lord, but rather wanted to use the Lord for their own gain.

Can you please describe for me what you think self-style worship looks like? I don't think you can, but I'd like to know what you think anyway. I would think that true worship is an act to God that generates from our hearts in Love for God no matter what it looks like.

Self-styled worship is what CAIN was guilty of. He KNEW God wanted a blood sacrifice, but was TOO PROUD to trade some of his vegetables for one of Able's lambs. HENCE, God rejected Cain's sacrifice and Cain became so jealous of GOD being pleased with Able, that he murdered his brother. Anything other than the way GOD said he is to be worshipped (in spirit and in truth), is self-styled worship. I comes in many forms, one such form is a person that says, "I don't believe in going to Church, because I can worship God in the privacy of my home."; when GOD clearly has said, we are not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together.

I used to be a BIG TIME Country Music fan and still love Country Gospel but there is one so-called Christian Country song that I am convinced is peddling a self-styled worship LIE. That is "Me and Jesus Got Our Own Thing Going". According lyrics this guy is having an affair with another woman, and is sitting at a table with her by the window of a local watering hole (bar). A member of his Church sees him, and goes in to confront him about his sin. He tells her to mind her own business, because after all "Me and Jesus Got Our Own Thing Going", and "we'll get together a little later and work it all out." I am quite sure the Country artist that wrote that song thinks he is a Christian, but he has not even taken the first step, if his lyrics are the way he really thinks.

 

[J-Kay-2]

in a round about way.

Guilty, as charged. I did because I was judging as you said.
I am sorry and was sorry after I did it. I ask your forgiveness.
J~Kay~ 2

 

[MsLimpet]

my computer is broke down so I am speaking through my phone, I sincerely appreciate your apology, and feel it would be more appropriate when I get my computer fixed tomorrow and I will PM you thank you and God bless

 

[VCO]

i can not agree with you. Stanly is using an example, if they are saved, they can not lose it. I agree with him. If they are saved, they are still saved. if not. they lost salvation, and salvation becomes a works based salvation. Again, He did not say they never changed, and never had work. He is talking about people who fell back, or backslid. He will agree, a person who never saw a change is not saved, they were never saved.

I agree, Stanley was answering a hypothetical question about someone who was saved. He did not even mention psuedo-Christians, who are those who have fallen for something LESS than the true GOSPEL, but still think they are Christians. In not mentioning both groups prodigals and psuedo-Christians, he did leave room for confusion, but it proves, no Preacher is perfect.

 

[J-Kay-2]

my computer is broke down so I am speaking through my phone, I sincerely appreciate your apology, and feel it would be more appropriate when I get my computer fixed tomorrow and I will PM you thank you and God bless

Thank you ~ J~Kay~2

 

[VCO]

my computer is broke down so I am speaking through my phone, I sincerely appreciate your apology, and feel it would be more appropriate when I get my computer fixed tomorrow and I will PM you thank you and God bless

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Advanced SystemCare Free 7/6/5/4/3 Download Review for Windows XP/Vista/7 - IObit

 

[VCO]

we need to look at the question, How can a person be saved, THEN backslide into sin. and STILL BE SAVED? In this context. Charles Stanley is correct. The question assumes they were saved, (in reality) then backslid. A non believer can not backslide. He was never saved

How can there be such a thing as a Prodigal Son?

ANSWER:

God is also MERCIFUL, and we are NOT perfect, YET!

BUT after we get the glorified body, it will be a whole different story.

 

[VCO]

Wow, after seeing so much conflict on a Christian Chat over
salvation, I am beginning to think the Jezebel Spirit sprang
to life. Don't think I need to explain what a Jezebel Spirit is.

Just sharpening our swords!

 

[VCO]

Never mind. Nothing to explain.. You know.... when a crowd comes around
an accident scene and the police say... stay back, nothing to see here....
Was just talking to myself. Thank you for noticing. ~

Welcome to the site J, I guess that officially makes you the "fresh meat", LOL.

Granted, I think some are treading in some dangerous waters, but I think that should just remind us:

1 Peter 3:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

 

[VCO]

Stanley is using "if" to mean "assuming they are saved" or "to imply they are saved"...Stanley is assuming the prodigal is saved and lives contrary to the word of God. He is not using "if" to question if the prodigal is saved or not.

Think about it:

Jehovah Witnesses think they are saved or will be saved.

Mormons Think they are saved or will be saved.

Christian Science members think they are saved or will be saved .

The followers of Jim Jones and similar psuedo-christian cults thought they were saved.

Those who deny the Deity of Christ think they are saved or will be saved.

Those with $3 worth of God in stuffed in a brown paper bag deep in their pocket where no one can see it, think they are saved or will be saved.

Those who only want a Savior but NOT A LORD to rule over their lives, think they are saved or will be saved.

Those who only acknowledge the stories about Jesus are true think they are saved or will be saved.

Those who think they are earning their Salvation by their works think they will be saved.

They all follow false gospels, AND STILL, they all think they are saved or will be saved.

><>t<><

GOD LOOKS ON THE HEART AND KNOWS BETTER.


Matthew 22:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] "For many are called, but few are chosen."

 

[homwardbound]

Why do some people call being baptized works? I call being baptized obeying a command. Works shows God what we have done in his name, without works how can God judge us, what would he use to judge us if it wasn't our works. Doesn't God say you will know a person by his works, whether they be good or bad. So what's the big deal with the word works? The word works seems to divide people which makes no sense to me at all.

There are the works of the flesh that do no good for eternal life, and there are works of the Spirit of God that bring life everlasting
The fight is flesh still verses the Spirit of God and 1 Cor. 13 reveals the flesh works over the Spirit of God's works
No flesh works of self will or ever does please God. The onlky flesh works that ever did and does please God is Christ's for you and me and all who beleive God are made righteous, by Chirst's sacrifice for you personally and all the choose to beleive God
Col 1:22 states by Christ's death you are present to Father as Holy. Christ is our pinch hitter as in baseball and has hit the ball out of the park a grand slam mind you for us all who will beleive and stand firn in this Gospel preached by Paul to us all Read Col. 1 :21-23 and see this is what it is

 

[homwardbound]

What James was saying is anyone truly saved, will have that saving faith produce a harvest of good works.

And that would be love to all:

Luke 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

 

[homwardbound]

JAMES DID NOT CONTRADICT PAUL, If you WERE SAVED, the evidence that your salvation was REAL, will come out in your works.

True works of God are nothing more than a by-product of one's Faith
Just as Christ said it, not his works Father's, hmm, whose works ours or Father's through Son?
Again true works through us are not ours, they are Father's through us in love to all

 

[homwardbound]

I feel like this may go along with what you are saying:
Matt 20:1-16 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. [SUP]2 [/SUP]When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius for the day, he sent them into his vineyard. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the market place; [SUP]4 [/SUP]and to those he said, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ And so they went. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did the same thing. [SUP]6 [/SUP]And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing around; and he said to them, ‘Why have you been standing here idle all day long?’ [SUP]7 [/SUP]They said to him, ‘Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You go into the vineyard too.’
[SUP]8 [/SUP]“When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last group to the first.’ [SUP]9 [/SUP]When those hired about the eleventh hour came, each one received a denarius. [SUP]10 [/SUP]When those hired first came, they thought that they would receive more; but each of them also received a denarius. [SUP]11 [/SUP]When they received it, they grumbled at the landowner, [SUP]12 [/SUP]saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the scorching heat of the day.’ [SUP]13 [/SUP]But he answered and said to one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for a denarius? [SUP]14 [/SUP]Take what is yours and go, but I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous?’ [SUP]16 [/SUP]So the last shall be first, and the first last.”

We work because God has extended grace to us (and in return must extend grace to others). Yes, we work but not to be saved, but because we were saved. And God will reward the one who does a little work in the same way that he rewards the one who does a little work. And if He feels that someone needs extra reward that is between God and the one who receives whatever God considers just.

one does not "HAVE TO" we do as a response in thanksgiving and praise to this miraculous salvation extended to us by Christ the Son our propitiation for any and all sin, before any of us here were ever born here on earth

1 John 2:2 and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins
Romans 3:25 whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

And all sin is past in a flash.

 

[homwardbound]

People still want to add their own works. The flesh is as powerful today as it has always been. No one wishes to give complete control to God, it is against our nature, thats why so FEW will enter into the narrow gate.

And that is why Romans 6 is written for us to beleive by Christ's death we are dead to flesh as well, so that we can be alive in Spirit and truth and learn to walk this way daily
God leads we follow the lead, not lead the lead