Is there such a thing as an atheist?

[Cycel]

I have heard this same assertion from others, yet parts of the Old Testament carry a very different message. The god of the Old Testament is quick to kill those who break his commandments. Harsh justice, is not much of a love letter.

If that were so then Israel wouldn't exist, right?

After God commands Joshua to destroy Ai (Joshua 8), 12,000 men, women, and children are put to the sword. This is only one example, there are many. That act is not a love story, and in modern thinking would be considered a crime against humanity. God can be absolutely brutal in the Old Testament. That's why Dawkins made the remarks he did in The God Delusion: "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: ..., bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser...," among other things. (Dawkins, p. 31)

I mention this only because you seemed to dispute my comment that God could be very harsh.

 

[Cycel]

Hey you how are ya?

Getting tired. I've stayed up too many nights reading George R.R. Martin's A Feast for Crows. That's HBO's Game of Thrones.

How are you?

There's no life on Mars. But even if there were, God created Mars too.

There might be, or there might not be life on Mars, but don't rule it out until the appropriate investigations have been made. First, the Bible doesn't mention that Mars even exists, second there is no mention that life was created on other worlds, so theologically what would the discovery of bacterial life on Mars mean? From the standpoint of biology it would be a very interesting discovery. The big questions would centre around its DNA. Identical DNA to that of earth would raise significant questions, but so would DNA that was unique.

When you assert there is no life on Mars is this a theological claim? Most Christians take this same stand so it makes me think that there is something about scripture that leads Christians away from accepting the possibility of life elsewhere. I think the notion of life elsewhere perhaps conflicts with the belief that the universe was created for us alone.

 

[phil112]

More fodder for the imagination.

Astronomers are one step closer to discovering Earth Two. They have found an exoplanet slightly larger than our own, orbiting a star at a distance where it could have liquid water on its surface.But before you hop on a spaceship looking for a change of scenery, keep in mind that scientists have fairly little information about this new exoplanet, including its mass and composition. From what they can tell, the place is similar to our own world, though not quite Earth’s twin.
“We consider it more of an Earth cousin,” said astronomer Elisa Quintana of NASA’s Ames Research Center, lead author of a paper about the finding appearing today in Science. “It’s got the same size and characteristics, but a very different parent star.”
The exoplanet, named Kepler-186f, is located nearly 500 light-years away, orbiting a red M dwarf star. The star is about half the size of our own yellow G-type sun, and is much cooler and dimmer. Kepler-186f is roughly 10 percent larger than Earth and travels around its parent star in 130 days. Four other planets, each slightly larger than the Earth, also orbit the star, all with periods less than 23 days.

New Exoplanet Could Be Earth’s Cousin — Or Something Totally Alien | Science | WIRED

 

[Timeline]

I won't rule out that there might be symbolism, and I certainly don't rule out that the text supports a literal six day creation, but I think you have to make it relevant to the time in which the text was written. It has to mean something to the author and the people reading it.


So in your view the text actually has little to say about the creation of the world?

The outline of the account in broad terms parallels the Babylonian creation story. It is not likely the Babylonian account pertains to Israel, and so I think the Genesis account is most likely the actual cosmological belief system of ancient Israel. It seems likely that the author wished to convey the message that his own god, and not the gods of the Canaanites created the world.

I think studying the Babylonian account may shed light on the Genesis account itself as there are some interesting parallels.

Abraham was a Chaldean if I remember correctly. Isn't Chaldea and Babylon pretty much the same thing? Forgive my ignorance.


And yes, I believe the creation week, while literal, represents the "week" of time. I know it sounds crazy and I'm not trying to predict the end as I don't think God wants us to know.

 

[Cycel]

More fodder for the imagination. New Exoplanet Could Be Earth’s Cousin — Or Something Totally Alien | Science | WIRED

Very interesting. I think I did see that story a while back. The problem with this planet, as I see it, is that it is likely tidally locked with the parent star, meaning it probably keeps one face toward the star at all times. That's not so good if you want to equalize the temperature across the planet's surface.

 

[Timeline]

Getting tired. I've stayed up too many nights reading George R.R. Martin's A Feast for Crows. That's HBO's Game of Thrones.

How are you?


There might be, or there might not be life on Mars, but don't rule it out until the appropriate investigations have been made. First, the Bible doesn't mention that Mars even exists, second there is no mention that life was created on other worlds, so theologically what would the discovery of bacterial life on Mars mean? From the standpoint of biology it would be a very interesting discovery. The big questions would centre around its DNA. Identical DNA to that of earth would raise significant questions, but so would DNA that was unique.

When you assert there is no life on Mars is this a theological claim? Most Christians take this same stand so it makes me think that there is something about scripture that leads Christians away from accepting the possibility of life elsewhere. I think the notion of life elsewhere perhaps conflicts with the belief that the universe was created for us alone.

I have no reason to believe that there is not life anywhere else in the universe. I don't believe there is anything in the bible to suggest that there is life elsewhere, but that does not mean that its not out there. I don't think that we will ever find it though. Again that is just the way I feel and not really evidence based. I also think that there is a good chance that this not the time God has had life here on the earth, again not based on much scripture.

 

[Cycel]

Abraham was a Chaldean if I remember correctly. Isn't Chaldea and Babylon pretty much the same thing?

Yes. Scripture say Abraham migrated from Ur which was a capital city of the region at that time. Interestingly the Babylonian creation account, which has many close parallels with the Genesis creation story was discovered at Ur, so Abraham would have been very familiar with that account. That account has a serpent god, I forget the name, which a friend of the first man and brought wisdom him, and attempted to help him gain immortality. Some wonder if the Genesis account is meant to undermine belief in the Babylonian snake god by casting him in a bad light and portraying him only as a 'crafty' 'beast of the field'?

 

[Timeline]

Yes. Scripture say Abraham migrated from Ur which was a capital city of the region at that time. Interestingly the Babylonian creation account, which has many close parallels with the Genesis creation story was discovered at Ur, so Abraham would have been very familiar with that account. That account has a serpent god, I forget the name, which a friend of the first man and brought wisdom him, and attempted to help him gain immortality. Some wonder if the Genesis account is meant to undermine belief in the Babylonian snake god by casting him in a bad light and portraying him only as a 'crafty' 'beast of the field'?

That is interesting. I have heard something like that but have not read it myself.

 

[breno785au]

After God commands Joshua to destroy Ai (Joshua 8), 12,000 men, women, and children are put to the sword. This is only one example, there are many. That act is not a love story, and in modern thinking would be considered a crime against humanity. God can be absolutely brutal in the Old Testament. That's why Dawkins made the remarks he did in The God Delusion: "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: ..., bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser...," among other things. (Dawkins, p. 31)

I mention this only because you seemed to dispute my comment that God could be very harsh.

Nope, my dispute was that you said God was quick to judge those who break the commandments, if thats true, no one would be left, since we all break commandments.

 

[Timeline]

After God commands Joshua to destroy Ai (Joshua 8), 12,000 men, women, and children are put to the sword. This is only one example, there are many. That act is not a love story, and in modern thinking would be considered a crime against humanity. God can be absolutely brutal in the Old Testament. That's why Dawkins made the remarks he did in The God Delusion: "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: ..., bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser...," among other things. (Dawkins, p. 31)

I mention this only because you seemed to dispute my comment that God could be very harsh.

No doubt God was "harsh" in the Old Testament. The Old Testament was leading to the New. We see God's wrath with out grace. And we must always remember that there is a spiritual world were we don't see what happens (unless God tells us). Moses was not allowed into the promised land of Canaan, but that does not mean that he did not or can not go to heaven. Moses was with Elijah and Jesus at the transfiguration. This is problem with some Christians thinking we are under the old law. Paul says, "You that want to be under the law, do you read the law" - meaning pay attention, the old law was harsh, why would you want to be under the old law.

 

[mustaphadrink]

The truth that is talking snakes and magic trees?

This comment indicates the paucity of you ability to discuss rationally, preferring to use "gotcha" statements that are totally irrelevant to the subject. Come back to me when you can exegete the whole counsel of God which is not found in half a dozen words which when used make you sound banal and irrelevant to intelligent discussion.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Look at Europe. The majority of the population is now atheist.

Outside of East Asia and some European countries atheist or non-believer percentages are typically in the single digits.

According to a 2010 EurostatEurobarometer poll, 51% of European Union citizens responded that "they believe there is a God", whereas 26% answered that "they believe there is some sort of spirit or life force" and 20% that "they do not believe there is a spirit, God, nor life force". Results were widely varied between different countries, with 94% of Maltese respondents stating that they believe in God, on the one end, and only 16% of Czechs stating the same on the other.

The World Book reports atheism as 2.1% of the population.

Typical atheist saying things to massage a damaged ego regardless of the truth of it.

 

[mustaphadrink]

A little humor for my atheist friends.
View attachment 77111

Thanks Phil. That describes Cycel to a T.

 

[mustaphadrink]

God spoke and bang there it was and is.

Good one Kerry.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Hi Mustapha.

I gather you are a teacher? Albert Einstein once famously said that If you can't explain something simply, you don't understand it well enough.

Could you please explain the Big Bang Theory and any other scientific origin theorems as you understand them.

What Einstein said is of no interest to me as he is not my god.

Can you explain the Big Bang Theory and any other scientific origins theorems? I doubt it as you haven't been able to answer any questions I have posted so far. When you have, come back to me.

 

[Spokenpassage]

The Bible does teach this, and as it is your belief you would be remiss not to give warning. I do not in any way feel offended. Carry on.

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[mustaphadrink]

I simply cannot accept the magical stories in the bible as true, they don't register in my brain as remotely believable.

This is the key claim in your post because it shows that you have a closed mind and are determined not to believe regardless of how true the bible is.

One who is open minded does not apply fanciful descriptions like "magical stories" to a topic which you have no proof of whatsoever that they are magical. All you have is cynical opinion. As we know when you are a sin-ic you have a real problem with sin so to speak.

However, feel free to keep following your god Satan, the father of lies. He will make great company for you on judgment day. Maybe not. He will in all probability have abandoned you long before that and thrown you in the trash can when you are no longer any use to him.

There I go again speaking the truth. Satan is not going to like that one little bit.

Q: What is so ironic about Atheists? A: They’re always talking about God.

 

[IntoTheVoid]

This comment indicates the paucity of you ability to discuss rationally, preferring to use "gotcha" statements that are totally irrelevant to the subject. Come back to me when you can exegete the whole counsel of God which is not found in half a dozen words which when used make you sound banal and irrelevant to intelligent discussion.

But I fail to see what is rational about talking animals, magic trees, fire breathing underwater monsters, flaming swords guarding the gates of paradise etc. How does one even begin to have an intelligent discussion about all that?

So my comments are not irrelevant at all. I'm called a 'fool' and 'closed minded' because I cannot accept those clearly mythical things as truth.

And if those things were mentioned in any other context or aspect of life then you wouldn't believe them to be true either.

 

[Jda016]

If life on Earth is evidence of God, what happens if life, or former life, is discovered on Mars? We are not going to find higher life forms there, but it may be too early to rule out the presence of bacteria.

I actually share your excitement about the possibility of life on other planets. I don't believe in little green men, but I believe that in this vast universe God may have created worlds full of green vegetation, life, and animals.

I don't believe the possibility of life on other planets, in any way, hurts the credibility of the Bible. I do however, believe man is unique and unlike anything else in the entire Universe as we are the only creature created in God's image.

 

[Cycel]

View attachment 77162
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All right, you have given your warning, but it falls on deaf ears. The way to reach the atheist is to convince him of the truth of your position. You can only do that if you overcome his objections. Can you do that?