#3: Why didn’t GOD forgive the Jews?

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Q

questioner1

Banned
#1
May 9, 2014
118
0
0
#1

Luke.23
[34] Then Jesus said:
Father, (GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)
forgive them,
because they do not know what they are doing.
+++
The Apostles also confirm the fact.

Acts.3
[17] And now, brethren,
I (Peter) know that throughignorance (darkness) you did it,
like your rulers also did.

1 Cor.2
[7] But we (Apostles) speak the wisdom of GOD,
in a mystery (puzzle ??),
even the hidden wisdom,
that GOD ordained, (planned)
before the world,
to our glory (importance)
 [8] that none of the princes (the Jewish Rulers),
of this world knew
for had they known it,
they would not have crucified,
the LORD (of Israel) from (of) glory.
+++
GOD destroyed 2/3 of the Jews in circa 66 - 70 A.D.
Then he cast away the last 1/3 as non Christian Jews. (Eek.5. 2-12)
GOD emptied the land as he promised. (Isa.13 1-5;….Isa.24:1)
+
The remnant of Spiritual Israel,
the children of the Prophets, (who are the Apostles and converts)
GOD gave to Jesus, his HAND, as his inheritance and,
to made into Christians.
Anointed Christians are his NEW People
And they a part of a series of NEW things.
+++
Luke.23
[34] Then Jesus said:
Father, (GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)
forgive them,
because they do not know what they are doing.
 
ThomistColin

ThomistColin

Banned
#2
Nov 30, 2012
2,396
26
0
#2
God is ever willing to forgive. You might say He is eagerly waiting to forgive. We, like the prodigal son, must start the journey home. When that happens, He sees us from far off and comes running.
 
P

paulsfam4

Guest
#3
#3
we confess our sins and God will forgive us.
 
Q

questioner1

Banned
#4
May 9, 2014
118
0
0
#4
ThomistColin said:
God is ever willing to forgive. You might say He is eagerly waiting to forgive. We, like the prodigal son, must start the journey home. When that happens, He sees us from far off and comes running.
Click to expand...
+++
He did not forgive the Jews...

Regards,
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#6
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#6
questioner1 said:
+++
He did not forgive the Jews...

Regards,
Click to expand...
Perhaps He is waiting for them as a nation to cry out to Him since as a nation they rejected Him (see Matt 12).
But He still forgives Jewa on an individual basis as He did Paul.
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#7
Jul 31, 2013
36,677
13,133
113
#7
questioner1 said:
+++
He did not forgive the Jews...

Regards,
Click to expand...
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;
to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
(Romans 1:16)

hi, remember who the gospel was first given to? who Jesus walked among, healing and forgiving?

have a pleasant evening,

-post-
 
A

Atwood

Senior Member
#9
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#9
Q1 quoted the first "word" of Christ at the Cross.

[34] Then Jesus said:
Father, (GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)
forgive them,
because they do not know what they are doing.

but he inserted something not in the text in parenthese.

This statement of the Lord Jesus only forgives persons to the extent of their ignorance. It certainly applies to the Roman soldiers who drove the nails into the Lord Jesus. I don't know if it really applies to the rest of the conspirators.

Was Pilate ignorant? God gave his wife a special dream.
Were Caiaphas and Annas and the Sanhedrin ignorant?
What about those who cried out, "His blood be on us and on our children"?

How do you know that the them applies to more than the soldiers who did the nailing?
 
ThomistColin

ThomistColin

Banned
#10
Nov 30, 2012
2,396
26
0
#10
Atwood said:
Q1 quoted the first "word" of Christ at the Cross.

[34] Then Jesus said:
Father, (GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)
forgive them,
because they do not know what they are doing.

but he inserted something not in the text in parenthese.

This statement of the Lord Jesus only forgives persons to the extent of their ignorance. It certainly applies to the Roman soldiers who drove the nails into the Lord Jesus. I don't know if it really applies to the rest of the conspirators.

Was Pilate ignorant? God gave his wife a special dream.
Were Caiaphas and Annas and the Sanhedrin ignorant?
What about those who cried out, "His blood be on us and on our children"?

How do you know that the them applies to more than the soldiers who did the nailing?
Click to expand...
I believe it applies to all. But forgiveness must be received, or else it is ignored or derided.
 
A

Atwood

Senior Member
#11
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#11
I doubt that we can consider the present day Jews either blamed or unforgiven for the crucifixion of the Lord Jesus.
If His blood was put on the Jerusalem crowd and their children, in the law it saws that the Lord visits consequences of sin to the 3rd and/or 4th generation. We are now way beyond the 4th generation.

However, if anyone today thinks the Lord Jesus had it coming or needed to be crucified, that would be another question.
 
A

Atwood

Senior Member
#12
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#12
Good evening Thomist,

Well, aside from this passage, I believe that indeed your principle is correct and can be established from other scripture.

Wherefore we henceforth know no man after the flesh: even though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now we know him so no more. Wherefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature: the old things are passed away; behold, they are become new. But all things are of God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ, and gave unto us the ministry of reconciliation; to wit, that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not reckoning unto them their trespasses, and having committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 2 Cor 5
 
A

Atwood

Senior Member
#13
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#13
questioner1 said:

Luke.23
[34] Then Jesus said:
Father, (GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)
forgive them,
because they do not know what they are doing.
+++
The Apostles also confirm the fact.

Acts.3
[17] And now, brethren,
I (Peter) know that throughignorance (darkness) you did it,
like your rulers also did.

1 Cor.2
[7] But we (Apostles) speak the wisdom of GOD,
in a mystery (puzzle ??),
even the hidden wisdom,
that GOD ordained, (planned)
before the world,
to our glory (importance)
 [8] that none of the princes (the Jewish Rulers),
of this world knew
for had they known it,
they would not have crucified,
the LORD (of Israel) from (of) glory.
+++
GOD destroyed 2/3 of the Jews in circa 66 - 70 A.D.
Then he cast away the last 1/3 as non Christian Jews. (Eek.5. 2-12)
GOD emptied the land as he promised. (Isa.13 1-5;….Isa.24:1)
+
The remnant of Spiritual Israel,
the children of the Prophets, (who are the Apostles and converts)
GOD gave to Jesus, his HAND, as his inheritance and,
to made into Christians.
Anointed Christians are his NEW People
And they a part of a series of NEW things.
+++
Luke.23
[34] Then Jesus said:
Father, (GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)
forgive them,
because they do not know what they are doing.
Click to expand...
This was an interesting post.

I don't think we can deem the rulers ignorant that they were murdering an innocent person; certainly Pilate knew he was doing that. I would say the Jeru mob may have known too that he had committed no capital offence.

I might ask on one point:
You interpret:

" none of the princes (the Jewish Rulers),
of this world knew"

What leads you to suppose that the Jews had "princes"?
What leads you to think that the princes of this world were Jewish rulers?

We speak wisdom, however, among them that are fullgrown: yet a wisdom not of this world, nor of the rulers of this world, who are coming to nought: but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, even the wisdom that hath been hidden, which God foreordained before the worlds unto our glory: which none of the rulers of this world hath known: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory: but as it is written,
Things which eye saw not, and ear heard not,
And which entered not into the heart of man,
Whatsoever things God prepared for them that love him.

This seems more likely to me to refer to the principalities and powers, rulers who are not of flesh and blood, against whom we wrestle.

See Daniel 10 on princes.
 
Last edited:
Q

questioner1

Banned
#14
May 9, 2014
118
0
0
#14
crossnote said:
Perhaps He is waiting for them as a nation to cry out to Him since as a nation they rejected Him (see Matt 12).
But He still forgives Jewa on an individual basis as He did Paul.
Click to expand...
+++
Perhaps ..ok

Keep well,
 
Q

questioner1

Banned
#15
May 9, 2014
118
0
0
#15
posthuman said:
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth;
to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
(Romans 1:16)

hi, remember who the gospel was first given to? who Jesus walked among, healing and forgiving?

have a pleasant evening,
-post-
Click to expand...
+++

Why did GOD forgive them??
 
Q

questioner1

Banned
#17
May 9, 2014
118
0
0
#17
Atwood said:
Q1 quoted the first "word" of Christ at the Cross.

[34] Then Jesus said:
Father, (GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob)
forgive them,
because they do not know what they are doing.

but he inserted something not in the text in parenthese.

This statement of the Lord Jesus only forgives persons to the extent of their ignorance. It certainly applies to the Roman soldiers who drove the nails into the Lord Jesus. I don't know if it really applies to the rest of the conspirators.

Was Pilate ignorant? God gave his wife a special dream.
Were Caiaphas and Annas and the Sanhedrin ignorant?
What about those who cried out, "His blood be on us and on our children"?

How do you know that the them applies to more than the soldiers who did the nailing?
Click to expand...
??

Thank you..
 
Dan58

Dan58

Senior Member
#18
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
338
83
#18
God forgave the Hebrews over and over again. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!" (Luke 13:34). God is eager to forgive, but forgiveness is not automatic, it requires a repentant sinner. Remember King David committed adultery and murder, both punishable by death, but David repented and found mercy. King Saul never repented and was unwilling to change.
 
Q

questioner1

Banned
#19
May 9, 2014
118
0
0
#19
Dan58 said:
God forgave the Hebrews over and over again. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!" (Luke 13:34). God is eager to forgive, but forgiveness is not automatic, it requires a repentant sinner. Remember King David committed adultery and murder, both punishable by death, but David repented and found mercy. King Saul never repented and was unwilling to change.
Click to expand...
Jesus asked him..
Regards,
 
Q

questioner1

Banned
#20
May 9, 2014
118
0
0
#20
GOD takes vengeance for his people.

For whom did he take vengeance in 70 A.D.?
 
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