It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Atwood]

Teach yourself, Atwood. I know exactly what I believe.

"free from whatever heresy."

To disbelieve in the Savior and His salvation is heresy.

Hobo says: "By taking certain favourite verses from the scriptures (and applying it to yourself) you are creating in your own mind illussion of the salvation of own soul.
But, the true reality, which you are to see after death will be opposite to your expectations."

Not to apply whosover texts to myself, would be to disbelieve God's Word.

Hobo: "For the greatest hermits (of the early monks) had big troubles (after death) for softest thoughts about their own salvation."

How do you know that hermits were great? Where does scripture advocate being a hermit?

Hobo claims: "And you are trying to preach false doctrin among christians, calling by stanic heresy, views of all who disagree with your illussion."

I present God's Word, Hobo. To deny the Savior and His salvation is heresy. It is no illusion the promises of eternal life for trusting Christ as Savior. Why despise the promises of God? To call God's promises illusions, is satanic.

Hobo: You go on and on without proving anything at all from Scripture. Why waste time that way? To believe God's promises is not to sinfully judge, but to have faith. I don't have self-confidence, but confidence in my Savior and His word. Pride comes in thinking you can make it by your works.

Hobo sinfully judges me: "The Satan is source of your own self-confidence (for the proudness is also mortl sin, even bigger than another)."

Hobo, I believe God's word, not your unbelieving claims:

1 John 5:

"Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

We trust in Jesus as in the Savior and in His salvation.

But Heresy and self-deceipt is to take the certain verses from the Scriptures and apply it personaly to yourself.

I am just pointing to you your own enticement (without condemning you soul).

You claim to like verses and words of the Savior.

Then why dont you like to apply to your own soul the words of Jesus: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven

Matthew 5:19

You can not to know exactly what the Lords will do with you and which His words will be applied to you.

Doomsday will show - who is saved, and who is not.​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When you study you need to read the whole bible.
the reason certain portions are no longer read or believed is because those with their own theology know those scriptures would blow their theories

Read the bible completely through once in prayer from Genesis to Revelation
and you will never again say once saved always saved.

We must have two different bibles. Where did you get yours from? The Pharisee/Roman Catholic exchange?

Many will say LOR LORD have we not worshipped, taught, cast out demons in your name?
and Jesus said
Get away fropm me you sinners who refuse to change and follow me
(Workers of sin)

This is talking to people like you. WHo do the works to be saved, and think you can lose salvation if you do not work hard enough. Not sinners. We ALL are sinners. this is the part you people do not get. You think your righteous. When you are not.

Not to mention. this passage proves OSAS. It says he NEVER KNEW THEM, It did not say they were saved, and did these great works while they were saved, then backslid and lost there salvation. NEVER KNEW them means NEVER.

Clear as a bell in the bible all the old testmament stories tell us
if you do well you will be accepted
if you do evil you will be lost
adam, cain, Able, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph Caleb Joshua Gideon, Samson, SAUL DAVID Josiah Jeremiah Isaih hundreds of stories

the obedient are rewarded and the disobedient lost.

Yet salvation is a gift. Not a reward. Abraham was not rewarded because of his good deeds, He was saved by his FAITH. Otherwise (as paul makes clear in rom 4) he would have something to boast about. and he would deserve a payment (reward)

Revelation says

Once saved always saved will no save you if you take the mark of the Beast

you better find out what the
Markl of the Beast is
the number of the beast is
the name of the Beast is
and the image of the beast is

If you take them you WILL be thrown into the lake of fire no matter what you profess.

and once saved always saved gives you a sense of security, that you dont have to worry cause you are going through
well,
you are not if you disobey God.

If you want to fear God. And not be adopted by him where you can call him abba Father thats on you.

as for the rest of us, We trust in God. It is based on him. Your christianity is a false form. You preach fear and condemnation. Even Jesus said he did not come to condemn, he came to save. I guess you do not trust him. Thats sad.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thanks another breath of fresh air.
I've noticed those who lay emphasis on 'my salvation' or 'your salvation' are missing the fact that from beginning to end it is 'the Lord's Salvation' for Salvation is of the Lord.
Another thing , too often many picture it a matter of us holding His hand rather than Him holding our hand...He doesn't let go.

He does not just hold our hand, He rescues us from the mire of our sin and condemnation. And leads us to the promised land It is ALL HIM. Not us. We can do nothing. if they would only figure this out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Was the Prodigal Son OSAS?
Looks like the son was DEAD. He only returned to become alive again, but had he not returned he would have stayed dead.

He was still the son. The father still loved him and would have came to get him and brought him home. You people must not be very good parents. Maybe we should call you all child abusers.. to leave your child to be buried in a grave no one knows.. Wow.

 

[Cassian]

Atwood,

When a heresy contradicts scripture, it is a matter of fact, not of who declares it.
The fact is based on scripture, not human tradition. Man is not above God's Word.
Once the Word declares a truth, that is the end of the argument, "It is written," not
"Sanctimonius Robe-Wearer," says it.

this is the definition of the sola scripturist. Anything not according to his interpretation is heresy, which is the definition of heresy. So, then your view is also heresy as opposed to say, Luther, or even Joseph Smith. Which is why sola scripturist claim their personal views as infallible. It has nothing to do with what scripture actually means, but what his interpretation of it means.

All you have done here is made the statement that oSAS, which is a tenent or Reformed doctrine is the infallible truth of scripture according to those who interpret the same way as Calvin and subsequent proponents, though many have nuanced Calvin a lot.

JUst so you know, Christ via the Holy Spirit working through His Body also declares teachings contrary to His Gospel as heretical. I'm sure you are aware of some of these.

Since it really does not effect you as a sola scripturist but OSAS has been declared heretical by the Church back in 1641, 1642 by the Councils of Constantinople and Jassy. Though not pertinent here, Patriarch Jeramiah II also declared Lutheranism as stated in the Augsburg Confessions as heretical as well.

Those are historical facts.

A man who believes in the Lord Jesus receives eternal life, not the possibility of eternal life.
"God so loved the World that He gave His only Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but HAVE everlasting life" -- not the possibility of it if he is a good boy.

then you quote a text that has two conditions in it again. One possesses it ONLY in the present tense, active and continuing. so it is NOT a fact, but a possibility and will be awarded at the end "but have eternal life. Never states that one has eternal life.

"Everything is a gift."
Salvation is a free gift, rewards are earned (not free gift). Salvation cost the Lord Jesus His precious blood, but it costs the believer nothing; we get it as a gift.

It didn't cost the unbeliever anything as well and he is also the recipient of salvation, salvation from death and sin. Rom 5:18, I Cor 15:12-22, Heb 2:9, Heb 2:14, Every text that states man shall be raised in the last day affirms that Christ arose form the dead with our mortal body and gave life to it. John 6:39 confirms that no human being will be missed, all things were given to HIm, Col 1:20, and all things will be raised.

However, eternal life, though a gift as well, requires many conditions, the most important is that of remaining faithful to Christ until the end.

There are universal blessings from the atonement -- men get a time to have a change of mind and start trusting Him for salvation. But the atonement does not secure for all men eternal life; they must believe to appropriate the gift.

so unbelievers will be raised in the last day because they believed. Could you cite the text that states this?
I don't think you understand the Atonement, nor the Incarnation.

"The purpose of that gift was to enable man to be joined with Christ is a living relationship that is covenantal. It is not a one sided arrangement with eternal life given simply on a one-time affirmation of faith."
Covenants with God are basically one-sided. God makes the conditions and the promises, as with Abraham. Abe was asleep when the covenant was finalized and Abe got no chance to make or alter provisions. The New Covenant is the same. God announced in Jeremiah 31 what was going to be what; and that was and is that.

I have yet to know of any covenant that is one-sided. Christ established the New Covenent at what is known as the Last Supper. It is a covenant made in His Blood. But the covenant as spelled out in scripture requires one to believe, repent and be baptised to enter into the Covenant. John 3:5. It is in the Covenantal relationship that man is healed, is conformed to Christ's Image. If one remains and is faithful one will inherit the promise that awaits at the end. I Pet 1:3-5. There are many very specific conditions that the believer must fulfil in order to remain faithful. Many of them have already been cited by others in this thread.

Cassian makes more claims, but he should prove them or drop them. He gives no scripture. Cassian, I urge you to stop theorizing and pontificating and prove things from God's Word. First, believe His Word. Exhortations to be faithful do not alter that a bit.

I keep forgetting that you don't understand scripture so when an explanation is given, I assume you understand scripture. After all there is ONLY one gospel and you claim to be Christian.

Then Cassian gets into the Calvin Tulip, which is not necessary to affirm salvation. Predestination and election are in the Bible and did not come from paganism. Christians have different interps of election, which are not essential to affirming that the saved are saved. What Boettner opines is irrelevant, a straw man.

so one minimizes the Gospel once given, minimizes historical accounts, and then pontificates that his gospel is actually the true gospel. And then says it is not of men. What are you, by definition? Calvinism denies salvation and eternal life as scripture states. That is why I brought it up. It denies the Incarnation. It denies the salvific content of the Resurrection.
It denies the purpose of why God created man and then why Christ saved man.

John 3:16 clearly states that the man who present tense is believing in the Lord Jesus shall have (future) everlasting life, a future of consequence, but if you take it as pure future, the result is the same. Everlasting life. No ifs, ands or buts.

Exactly, future promise fulfilled. YOu only possess it in the present time. This is why OSAS is false. ONe does NOT possess it absolutely NOW. Most of the NT speaks categorically against such a notion. Scripture gives many examples of believers losing faith, many exhortations to not lose faith. Man cannot guarantee his faith and neither will God. Man's faith is wholly his responsibility and it is on the evidence of that faith that he will give an account at the judgement. Rom 2:5-8, Rev 20:13.

So, again, up to this point, no evidence that OSAS is found in scripture as it has always been understood. NOt by some 15th century man devising his own system of religion which was built on pagan ideas.

You cite texts that speak against your view. They only fit if you redefine the meaning of the words. Or you only accept one-side of a covenantal relationship, which is the basic principle of predestination.

There is nothing in scripture about man being able to break the New Covenant.

Prodigal Son, Five foolish Virgins, the parable of the talents, the unfaithful servant, Demas a disciple of Paul. There are many examples, but many more exhortations not to lose faith. Our inheritance of eternal life is based on our believing, faith. If we lose faith, how can one be saved, how can one inherit eternal life with Christ?

You need to reread scripture with much more care and without your apparent reformed blinders on.

 

[Atwood]

We trust in Jesus as in the Savior and in His salvation.


But Heresy and self-deceipt is to take the certain verses from the Scriptures and apply it personaly to yourself.

Congratulations for quoting a verse this time, Hobo.

But Hobo, if you don't know you will end up in Heaven, but might miss out somehow, you are clearly not trusting the Lord Jesus to get you there.

What is your proof that "Heresy and self-deceipt is to take the certain verses from the Scriptures and apply it personaly to yourself."

What point would the word do us if we didn't apply it to ourselves? It scripture gives a command, "Thou shalt not steal," you don't think it is for us personally? "All scripture is God-breathed and profitable
for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness: that the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work." To fail to apply scripture personally is a big sin.

"Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things that were heard, lest haply we drift away from them. For if the word spoken through angels proved stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward; how shall we escape, if we neglect so great a salvation? which having at the first been spoken through the Lord, was confirmed unto us by them that heard;"

Hobo says "Then why dont you like to apply to your own soul the words of Jesus: Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven "Matthew 5:19

You can not to know exactly what the Lords will do with you and which His words will be applied to you."


Hobo, refrain from making things up. You have no scripture for that one, neither does Mat 5 say any such thing. One ought not make up his own religion, but believe God's word:


Believe the Word of God through John:

"Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."

I remember very well having the attitude you espouse before I trusted Christ as my Savior. But I trust Him, therefore I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him against that day."

Salvation is not awarded on doomsday; it is right now: "Now is the day of salvation."

It is good that at least you quote scripture:

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven"

The Lord Jesus was sent to Israel and the Law of Moses was in force at that time. The Lord Jesus endorsed every jot and tittle of the Law, including keeping the 7th year sabbath, using ashes of a red heifer for cleansing, not eating shell fish, having fringes on the garment, circumcision, and sabbath keeping. But the Law of Moses ended at the cross. The Church was not given laws, but letters.

Of course we are commanded to keep commandments, especially to love neighbor as self, and God with all the might. But we err in many ways. Every day I need to confess sins. We will not be saved by doing good works and keeping commands, for these condemn us.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast." Eph 2

Trust the Lord Jesus now as your only and sufficient Savior. Trust Him to forgive all your sins and get you to Heaven.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry Atwood, God knows everything (including questions who will be saved and who condemned).

Do not you suppose that by such applying of the OSAS theory to yourself and to anybody else you are trying to take place of the Lord (who is to judge humankind).

That is interesting. Since those who believe in OSAS trust completely in Christ. And those who do not are placing things on God. In which he will not keep his promise. They make him give a gift he calls eternal. only to yank it back and make it conditional. They make him so anti-God that he gets fooled and gives a gift to someone, Only to later realise he made a mistake and has to give it back.

If you only knew what you really believed, You would not say the things you say.

Such personalised claim of OSAS (made by any human about anyone) itself is obvious Heresy
But, I would called such assurance (as usage OSAS to any living person) by word enticement.
In orthopdox doctrin the term express the highest form of self-deceipt = illussion of proud mind.

Satanic Heresy is to say: everything OK, for I am saved since OSAS as well.

no. The heresy is to say I am saved, But I better work hard. or I will lose it. Because although God claims his salvation is a gift. It really must be earned.

Satan has been saying this since the first use of human good (cain) who tried to use the work of his labor to make God happy with him, And did not offer the sacrifice God demanded (the blood of an innocent)

Jesus offered that blood sacrifice. Yet you people dishonor him, his gift, and his love by claiming you must earn something. And not humbling yourself and realise no matter how good you think you are. on your best day, You deserve hell..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Have you forgotten also His words: Depart from me evildoers for I never knew you.
Or the parable about taking places in the table????

Why you are placing yourself to the right hand of Lord before His own judgement???

Satanic possession is to deceipt own soul by such self-judging.

We know the Jesus is Lord and His worlds are true.

But, who a you to use His favourit worlds to yourself instead of Lord Jesus????

who is doing this but you?

Your trying to earn your right to sit at his table (ignoring the word of God which says you will never earn that right no matter how hard you try or how much work you do)

We are on our knees begging God to grant a seat by his table for us, WHo do not deserve a seat, or anythign else from God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Teach yourself, Atwood. I know exactly what I believe.

I am an orthodox. And I share initial christian approach, which is free from whatever heresy.

By taking certain favourite verses from the scriptures (and applying it to yourself) you are creating in your own mind illussion of the salvation of own soul.
But, the true reality, which you are to see after death will be opposite to your expectations.

For the greatest hermits (of the early monks) had big troubles (after death) for softest thoughts about their own salvation.

And you are trying to preach false doctrin among christians, calling by stanic heresy, views of all who disagree with your illussion.

I repeat you the main point, = you (as well as anyone else) can not know wchich words Lord will use to you personally in the Doomsday. You are placing yourself on the place of Divine Judge. And also you want others to follow your deceiptfull views.

The Satan is source of your own self-confidence (for the proudness is also mortl sin, even bigger than another).

Ah, You listen to men not God. No wonder your trying to earn your seat. and puff yourself up

ps. I do not want to speak for Atwood. But I am sure he feels the same.

We have NO CONFIDENCE in ourselves. if we did, we would believe like you do. and try to earn our way in.

 

[Deadtosin]

"I have even edited my own version of the Bible."-Atwood


can you expound on that one for me? thanks

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We trust in Jesus as in the Savior and in His salvation.

How can you say this and claim God, who promised to save you, and make you alive in him, adopt you as his son, Give you the spirit in your heart as a guarantee. And then possibly take all those things back if you do not live up to some standard.

Your not trusting god. your trusting self.

 

[Atwood]

We must have two different bibles. Where did you get yours from? The Pharisee/Roman Catholic exchange?




This is talking to people like you. WHo do the works to be saved, and think you can lose salvation if you do not work hard enough. Not sinners. We ALL are sinners. this is the part you people do not get. You think your righteous. When you are not.

Not to mention. this passage proves OSAS. It says he NEVER KNEW THEM, It did not say they were saved, and did these great works while they were saved, then backslid and lost there salvation. NEVER KNEW them means NEVER.



Yet salvation is a gift. Not a reward. Abraham was not rewarded because of his good deeds, He was saved by his FAITH. Otherwise (as paul makes clear in rom 4) he would have something to boast about. and he would deserve a payment (reward)



If you want to fear God. And not be adopted by him where you can call him abba Father thats on you.

as for the rest of us, We trust in God. It is based on him. Your christianity is a false form. You preach fear and condemnation. Even Jesus said he did not come to condemn, he came to save. I guess you do not trust him. Thats sad.

Eternally,

This is a great post.

 

[Deadtosin]

have we so quickly forgotten that we cannot serve 2 masters?

not "should not"

"can not"

 

[feedm3]

[/COLOR]How can you say this and claim God, who promised to save you, and make you alive in him, adopt you as his son, Give you the spirit in your heart as a guarantee. And then possibly take all those things back if you do not live up to some standard.

Your not trusting god. your trusting self.

Because this same GOD also said he is the "author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY" HEB 5:9*****
Implying the disobedient ARE NOT SAVED.

So you dont believe he is the author of salvation for the obedient???

Why does it say "all them that obey"? Why not believe? Why would it even say the words all them that obey, in a passage telling us who is saved, if obedience has nothing to do with salvation??

Are you still trying to convince those who believe they MUST obey that they dont to be saved? Even after passages like the above, and many more.

You want this person your responding to NOT believe he MUST obey God? Then you will be happy he believes like you?

You're working for Satan. Only he would want to convince people obedience is non essential to heaven. How many poeple does that bring right to hell?

Now you will say something like "when did I say we do not have to obey God"? "Those who do not were never saved" "Im trying to convince people not to trust in themselves for salvation"

No, if that was all, and you truly believed the disobedient will not go to heaven, then you would be fine with what people believe concering obedience being a MUST.

And if you truly believed if we disobey (live a life of sin) you would be preaching that we better obey God or we were never saved to beging with. is that you message?

NOPE - its, if you believe you MUST obey you are trying to earn salvation. EVIL EVIL EVIL

I really pray you see this, because if your right and I am wrong, i will still go to heaven because I believe, and try to abstain from sin. So I will quickly forget where I was wrong on earth and enjoy heaven. That doesnt sound too bad.

BUT, If I am right and you are wrong, then you will know for eternity. Because false doctrine is disobedient, and the Bible is clear where false teachers are going.

And I promise, I hope I am wrong, but I cant go against clear plain scripture that you ignore or twist. You better take what you do seriously EG this is not a game of who can appear to be right. This involves peoples souls man.

 

[Atwood]

"I have even edited my own version of the Bible."-Atwood


can you expound on that one for me? thanks

My favorite version has been for many years the old American Standard Version of 1901. However, it has Elizabethan English. Today I think that many have a hard time understanding the KJVish English.
So I began working on a version that I call The Transformation Bible, which I finished in rough draft. It has these features:

1) Old forms are changed to modern (thou and thee are changed to you).

2) Plural forms recognizable in ASV & KJV were changed to forms with asterisk after them. You in ASV & KJV is always plural; so I changed you to you*.

3) a few problem places in the ASV were improved by consulting (with consultation of original language), like their awful translation of 2 Timothy 3:16.

4) The Bible is written much in parallelism of various types, often practically saying the same thing twice, sometimes antithetical. I arranged the text to show parallelisms, using tabulation.

5) Based on 2 Cor 3:18 I am marking glory of God passages in gold/yellow to enhance one's transformation, using Times Roman font.

6) Based on the Love of Christ constrains, I am marking God's love passages in pink using a Lucinda font.

It is called The Transformation Bible, since it is intended to enhance one's transformation by guiding one to gaze at God's Glory (as in the mirror of His word) and by guiding one to mediate on God's constraining love.

Thanks for asking.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternally,

This is a great post.

Thank you Hopefully you are starting to see what I believe

 

[GrandHoboMaster]

It seems you guys unaware about the Christian Hope term.

The Hope (of personal salvation) and falsefull climed by OSAS self-confidence are different things.

For me, as for any orthodox OSAS is pure Heresy.
And I am not to continue the disscussion, so I am not to convert you.

Follow your own faith and reap its fruits.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Because this same GOD also said he is the "author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY" HEB 5:9*****
Implying the disobedient ARE NOT SAVED.

scripture also says to have faith in christ to save our eternal souls is obeying the gospel.

it also says those who are saved WILL OBEY HIM, Not might.

it also says those who are not saved CAN NOT OBEY HIM. NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO.

learn scripture. you might then finally be able to come out from under the law. the law condemns you and you can not even see it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It seems you guys unaware about the Christian Hope term.

The Hope (of personal salvation) and falsefull climed by OSAS self-confidence are different things.

FAITH is the substance of things HOPED for. the evidence of things not seen.

In the HOPE of eternal life. Which God, WHO CAN NOT LIE, promised BEFORE TIME BEGAN.

If one does not have OSAS, he does not have hope. in the biblical defenition of the term. If he does not have Hope. He does not have faith. The only faith he can possibly have is the faith you have, In men and self. Which to be honest. is no faith at all. There is no HOPE found in me. Only in CHrist.

For me, as for any orthodox OSAS is pure Heresy.
And I am not to continue the disscussion, so I am not to convert you.

Follow your own faith and reap its fruits.

It is not my faith. It is Gods.

"It is the work of GOD that you believe in the one he sent (john 6)