The EU will shrink to 10 nations!

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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#21
The Roman empire historically was not Europe as such. It overtly included Turkey (in Asia) and North Africa. So I see no warrant to focus on Europe as such. I don't know that Rome exercised that much authority in Germany (which was not a nation then)
The Holy Roman Empire was a multi-ethnic complex of territories in central Europe that developed during the Middle Ages and continued until its dissolution in 1806.[3] The core and largest territory of the empire was the Kingdom of Germany, though it included at times the Kingdom of Italy, the Kingdom of Bohemia, and the Kingdom of Burgundy, as well as numerous other territories.[4][5][6] - Wikipedia

The Western Roman Empire, which began its terminal collapse in 408, was notionally reborn nearly four centuries later through translatio imperii, the transfer of its lands, to Charlemagne, Charles the Great, King of the Franks, who had been crowned Emperor of the Romans on Christmas Day 800 by Pope Leo III.[26][27]

In 955, Otto won a decisive victory over the Magyars in the Battle of Lechfeld.[30]:707 In 951, Otto came to the aid of Adelaide, the widowed queen of Italy, defeating her enemies, marrying her, and taking control over Italy.[31]:214–15 In 962, Otto was crowned Emperor by Pope John XII.[30]:707 From then on, the affairs of the German kingdom were intertwined with those of Italy and the Papacy. Otto's coronation as Emperor made the German kings successors to the Empire of Charlemagne, which through translatio imperii, also made them successors to Ancient Rome. Additionally, in 963, Otto deposed the current pope John XII and chose Pope Leo VIII as the new pope (although John XII and Leo VIII both claimed the papacy until 964, when John XII died).

It was his second son, Henry V, who managed to reach an agreement with both the Pope and the bishops in the 1122 Concordat of Worms.[35]:123–34 The political power of the Empire was maintained, but the conflict had demonstrated the limits of any ruler's power, especially in regard to the Church, and it robbed the king of the sacral status he had previously enjoyed. Both the Pope and the German princes had surfaced as major players in the political system of the Empire.

Charles V[a] (24 February 1500 – 21 September 1558) was ruler of the Holy Roman Empire from 1519 and, as Charles I, of the Spanish Empire from 1516 until his voluntary abdication in favor of his younger brother Ferdinand I as Holy Roman Emperor and his son Philip II as King of Spain in 1556.

Francis II (German: Franz II, Erwählter Römischer Kaiser) (12 February 1768 – 2 March 1835) was the last Holy Roman Emperor, ruling from 1792 until 6 August 1806, when he dissolved the Holy Roman Empire after the disastrous defeat of the Third Coalition by Napoleon at the Battle of Austerlitz. In 1804, he had founded the Austrian Empire and became Francis I (Franz I.), the first Emperor of Austria (Kaiser von Österreich), ruling from 1804 to 1835, so later he was named the one and only Doppelkaiser (double emperor) in history

Germany, or more exactly the old Holy Roman Empire, in the 18th century entered a period of decline that would finally lead to the dissolution of the Empire during the Napoleonic Wars. Since the Peace of Westphalia in 1648, the Empire had been fragmented into numerous independent states (Kleinstaaterei). In 1701 Elector Frederick of Brandenburg was crowned "King in Prussia". From 1713 to 1740, King Frederick William I, also known as the "Soldier King", established a highly centralized state.

Here is an interesting article that illustrates how a state and church could work together...

Adolf Hitler, Charlemagne, and the Holy Roman Reich
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#22
The Holy Roman Empire was a multi-ethnic complex of territories in central Europe that developed during the Middle Ages and continued until its dissolution in 1806.[3] The core and largest territory of the empire was the Kingdom of Germany, though it included at times the Kingdom of Italy, the Kingdom of Bohemia, and the Kingdom of Burgundy, as well as numerous other territories.[4][5][6] - Wikipedia
Greetings John.

You probably know that the Wickedpedia is no authority on anything. I am aware of the "Holy Roman Empire." Was it Erasmus who said, "Neither holy, nor Roman, nor an empire"? I am referring to the Biblical Roman empire, not the middle ages, but yes, one could consider that HRE the continuation in the West of the western leg of Rome. The name kaiser = Caesar, as Czar in the East also = Caesar.

I think it is fair to say that Roman in the West fragmented, but did not cease to exist, particularly with the Papal system centered in Rome.

the one and only Doppelkaiser (double emperor) in history

Thanks for improving my vocab; I don't recall ever having heard of the Dope Kaiser before.

Now have a great day.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#23
But the kicker is the Bride of Christ will be in Heaven before the Anti-Christs rise.Enjoy So the Rapture of the church is closer then you think.
Well, Ranting, I remember way back in the 1970's this radio preacher who seemed to have a catch-phrase he liked to repeat, "It's later than you think." But it wasn't.

I have no idea when the Rapture will happen. Israel is back in the land which means something. But the first time when they returned, Christ didn't come for about 400 years later. And the Rapture has been imminent since James said that the Judge was at the doors in Jas 5. He could come before I finish typing this; or he might not come for centuries, as far as I know. Best to be ready and not be suckered in by Newspaper Exegesis.

If you really want to see a list of fools, just go over the predictions men have made, and the excitement of radio/TV preachers on this.

Do you remember how the idiots went on and on about the year 2000? Nothing happened. I recall May 21, 2011 -- they even bought bill boards. I watched as the earth turned and May 21 changed to May 22 going on from New Zealand (or better I think from the Christmas Islands) all the way past Hawaii to Pago Pago (or whatever), as the date setting Campers delayed a concession speech. The World was supposed to end with the Rapture then. And then when that failed, some looked to October 21. Finally Harold Camping repented of date-setting. (I learned from this that at one time it is 3 different dates somewhere on the earth's surface.)

But I know you didn't set a date.

Pardon me for digressing on date-setting.
 
Last edited:
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
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#24
The Bible says the 10 horns are ten kings which means they control the world and it will not be 10 European nations but it will be the world split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section who will hand their power over to the beast and that is how he gets control of the world although this plan is Caucasian influenced.

Like Canada,North America,and Mexico,becoming super nation number one,and so forth.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,337
16,316
113
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Tennessee
#25
Well, Ranting, I remember way back in the 1970's this radio preacher who seemed to have a catch-phrase he liked to repeat, "It's later than you think." But it wasn't.

I have no idea when the Rapture will happen. Israel is back in the land which means something. But the first time when they returned, Christ didn't come for about 400 years later. And the Rapture has been imminent since James said that the Judge was at the doors in Jas 5. He could come before I finish typing this; or he might not come for centuries, as far as I know. Best to be ready and not be suckered in by Newspaper Exegesis.

If you really want to see a list of fools, just go over the predictions men have made, and the excitement of radio/TV preachers on this.

Do you remember how the idiots went on and on about the year 2000? Nothing happened. I recall May 21, 2011 -- they even bought bill boards. I watched as the earth turned and May 21 changed to May 22 going on from New Zealand (or better I think from the Christmas Islands) all the way past Hawaii to Pago Pago (or whatever), as the date setting Campers delayed a concession speech. The World was supposed to end with the Rapture then. And then when that failed, some looked to October 21. Finally Harold Camping repented of date-setting. (I learned from this that at one time it is 3 different dates somewhere on the earth's surface.)

But I know you didn't set a date.

Pardon me for digressing on date-setting.
What's a date?
 
May 28, 2014
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#26
Sorry no ten sections, it will be ten leaders of ten nations of the EU, right now the eu is having so much trouble keeping its 27 nations together that it will have to contract to 10 . Time is short but this will happen very very soon because time is short. Pslams 83 seems to be just a hair away along with the prophecy of Isaiah and Elam, the Bear is on the move for the E38 war. Lets watch to see what happens to the Eu in the very near future, and forget the regional thing > not going to happen.
 
May 28, 2014
244
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#27
Yes the bible says the Anti-Christ will have power over the world, Just like that old saying the sun never set on the British empire . And just like America was feared all over the world and could send in troops into any part of the world {But now its a mess} thats the same way the anti-christs power will be.
 

Timeline

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2014
1,826
17
38
#28
Sorry no ten sections, it will be ten leaders of ten nations of the EU, right now the eu is having so much trouble keeping its 27 nations together that it will have to contract to 10 . Time is short but this will happen very very soon because time is short. Pslams 83 seems to be just a hair away along with the prophecy of Isaiah and Elam, the Bear is on the move for the E38 war. Lets watch to see what happens to the Eu in the very near future, and forget the regional thing > not going to happen.
Do you see any connection between the beasts of Daniel 7 and the beast of Revelation 13?
 
May 28, 2014
244
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#29
Is the Beast from the Sea and the Little Horn the same !
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#30
The Bible says the 10 horns are ten kings which means they control the world and it will not be 10 European nations but it will be the world split in to 10 sections with a leader in each section who will hand their power over to the beast and that is how he gets control of the world although this plan is Caucasian influenced.

Like Canada,North America,and Mexico,becoming super nation number one,and so forth.
Well, M-Paper,

Let me just speculate that in the trib there is no USA of any significance, for it is not mentioned. Let me just speculate that when the Rapture happens, the USA is also destroyed in a nuclear war which obliterates all computers (magnetic impulses) wiping out human knowledge and bank accounts, making high tech military useless. Then the world in a new dark age is back to horses and swords. Rev 6-18 looks to me low-tech. But I speculate.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#31
Sorry no ten sections, it will be ten leaders of ten nations of the EU, right now the eu is having so much trouble keeping its 27 nations together that it will have to contract to 10 . Time is short but this will happen very very soon because time is short. Pslams 83 seems to be just a hair away along with the prophecy of Isaiah and Elam, the Bear is on the move for the E38 war. Lets watch to see what happens to the Eu in the very near future, and forget the regional thing > not going to happen.
Why EU, instead of 2 legs (East & West) each with 5 kings/kingdoms?
 
May 28, 2014
244
0
0
#33
to the Eu in the very near future, and forget the regional thing > not going to happen.Why EU, instead of 2 legs (East & West) each with 5 kings/kingdoms? Good Thought but the bible and prophecy never said anything about the two feet but it did the toes thing! the two legs are a non starter to me.Enjoy Find me a prophecy about legs!> but I will find you about a prophecy about Toes>>>>>>>>>>>>LUV it
 
May 28, 2014
244
0
0
#34
!0 horns, ten toes , ten kings > but no legs. sorry
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#35
to the Eu in the very near future, and forget the regional thing > not going to happen.Why EU, instead of 2 legs (East & West) each with 5 kings/kingdoms? Good Thought but the bible and prophecy never said anything about the two feet but it did the toes thing! the two legs are a non starter to me.Enjoy Find me a prophecy about legs!> but I will find you about a prophecy about Toes>>>>>>>>>>>>LUV it
The legs of Iron was the Roman empire, Before them the Greeks and before them the Medes and Persians and before them Babylon.


The feet mixed with Iron and clay is the revived Roman Empire controlled by the Antichrist after the rapture and the world is plunged into chaos. The feet are the one world government that are smashed by the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
May 28, 2014
244
0
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#36
Hi Kerry > maybe he is smashing the toes? they are on the feet.
 
K

Kerry

Guest
#37
The whole thing comes down.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#38
!0 horns, ten toes , ten kings > but no legs. sorry
Rant, how can you ignore the legs? While you consider the tootsies, don't leave out the legs.

Dan 2

Thou, O king, sawest, and, behold, a great image. This image, which was mighty, and whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the aspect thereof was terrible. 32 As for this image, its head was of fine gold, its breast and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of brass, 33 its legs of iron, its feet part of iron, and part of clay. .. .


40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron, forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things; and as iron that crusheth all these, shall it break in pieces and crush. 41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43 And whereas thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men; but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron doth not mingle with clay.

Dan 7 is parallel:


7 After this I saw in the night-visions, and, behold, a fourth beast, terrible and powerful, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with its feet: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another horn, a little one, before which three of the first horns were plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking great things. . . .


beasts, which are four, are four kings, that shall arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. 19 Then I desired to know the truth concerning the fourth beast, which was diverse from all of them, exceeding terrible, whose teeth were of iron, and its nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with its feet; 20 and concerning the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, and before which three fell, even that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake great things, whose look was more stout than its fellows. 21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; 22 until the ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the Most High, and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.


23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all the kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. 24 And as for the ten horns, out of this kingdom shall ten kings arise: and another shall arise after them; and he shall be diverse from the former, and he shall put down three kings. 25 And he shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High; and he shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and half a time. 26 But the judgment shall be set, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#39
Be careful here, the scripture actually says ten KINGS. Now that could mean kingdoms (we would call it nations today) or it could mean ten rulers. There will absolutely be ten rulers (kings, prime ministers, presidents, etc) under the Beast. Will there absolutely be ten nations? In the future a ruler could (very unlikely but could) represent more than one nation.

We have to be careful about dogmatic statements when reading prophecy, but overall, you are absolutely correct...

The Beast power will rise in Europe and Germany will be the principle.
How do you know Germany will be the principal?

I would expect Italy as having Rome, as the nation of the Beast (Daniel 9)
 

Atwood

Senior Member
May 1, 2014
4,995
53
48
#40
Watch the EU something will happen to make it go down to ten nations , I will be watching for this. Because the bible says so and bible prophecy is 100% Enjoy
Where does the Bible say it is the EU that goes down to 10 nations?