Men's Rights Movement - More on the Manosphere

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,783
2,947
113
#1
We talked about the manosphere in an earlier thread and now I have found evidence of the end results of this sort of movement. I am not speaking of anyone in this forum, just the consequences of men thinking they are entitled to have women as chattel. Watch out for bad language!

"The Men's Rights Movement as they call themselves is a nebulous group of pickup artists and misogynists who've found each other on line, and are attempting to create a movement based around their hatred, disdain, and fear of women.We know for a fact that Rodgers was influenced by this movement, as he is subscribed to multiple "pick up artist" or "mens rights" channels on YouTube. (For those here that don't use YouTube, when a user subscribes to a channel, they receive notifications when that channel posts a new video.):

Elliot Rodger, Gunman in California Mass Shooting, was influenced by the "Men's Rights Movement"
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,372
2,448
113
#2
Wow... sounds like the Men's Rights Movement has gotten a bad name.

I'll have to call my little gathering of misogynists and pickup artists something else.

: )
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#3
We talked about the manosphere in an earlier thread and now I have found evidence of the end results of this sort of movement. I am not speaking of anyone in this forum, just the consequences of men thinking they are entitled to have women as chattel. Watch out for bad language!

"The Men's Rights Movement as they call themselves is a nebulous group of pickup artists and misogynists who've found each other on line, and are attempting to create a movement based around their hatred, disdain, and fear of women.We know for a fact that Rodgers was influenced by this movement, as he is subscribed to multiple "pick up artist" or "mens rights" channels on YouTube. (For those here that don't use YouTube, when a user subscribes to a channel, they receive notifications when that channel posts a new video.):

Elliot Rodger, Gunman in California Mass Shooting, was influenced by the "Men's Rights Movement"
Is associating ALL men's rights people with this group the same as when people equate all feminists with leftist pro-abortion activists?
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#4
We talked about the manosphere in an earlier thread and now I have found evidence of the end results of this sort of movement. I am not speaking of anyone in this forum, just the consequences of men thinking they are entitled to have women as chattel. Watch out for bad language!

"The Men's Rights Movement as they call themselves is a nebulous group of pickup artists and misogynists who've found each other on line, and are attempting to create a movement based around their hatred, disdain, and fear of women.We know for a fact that Rodgers was influenced by this movement, as he is subscribed to multiple "pick up artist" or "mens rights" channels on YouTube. (For those here that don't use YouTube, when a user subscribes to a channel, they receive notifications when that channel posts a new video.):

Elliot Rodger, Gunman in California Mass Shooting, was influenced by the "Men's Rights Movement"
I saw this fella's diatribe, he literally thought he was entitled to physical affection from women. Very strange thinking going on in this fella's head.
 
R

RachelBibleStudent

Guest
#5
is this part of the same movement as what i have heard of being called the fathers' rights movement?

basically as i understand it the fathers' rights movement is about fathers of unborn children fighting for a say in abortion decisions...
 

Toska

Senior Member
Nov 16, 2013
1,857
22
38
#6
Is associating ALL men's rights people with this group the same as when people equate all feminists with leftist pro-abortion activists?
I think you read my mind:)
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,783
2,947
113
#7
I agree with Stilly that there are probably all kinds of men's rights movements, some of them quite valid like the ones fighting for the rights of their unborn children.

But the issue is for disaffected young men, this movement has a considerable AND detrimental effect on them. It gives them permission to do evil to women on whatever grounds they feel is right. It justifies rape and murder. That is the part that bothers me.

I also agree that any feminist who says a woman has a right to an abortion is in about the same category as these misogynists. I unfortunately have several friends from high school who think abortion is the right way to go in getting rid of "unwanted" babies. But for the grace of God, perhaps there go I.......
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#8
"The men's rights movement (also known as men's rights activism (MRA), masculism or 'The Men's Human Rights Movement') is a movement that believes that social, legal and economic discrimination against men is present in society to the extent that fighting it deserves an organized effort mirroring feminism. Its membership is primarily male , though some women also identify with the movement and are sometimes known as 'fMRAs.'" -RationalWiki

Men's organizations such as 'A Voice for Men' typically describe their movement in the following manner:

"The Men’s Rights Movement (MRM) is a grass roots, unfunded and loosely associated collection of human rights advocates focused on opposing the marginalization and vilification of men and boys in Western society. The MRM is a non-violent, non-political movement comprised of men and women who believe, based on a growing body of evidence that the human rights of males are being systematically removed by activists, lobbyists, politicians and academicians who cling to a misguided and wrongheaded belief that masculinity is fundamentally violent or harmful. This persistent myth is often referred to as cultural misandry."

A very typical mission statement for men's rights organizations can be found at 'A Voice for Men':

"The Men’s Human Rights Movement (MHRM) is a complicated and often misunderstood social phenomenon. We address a wide variety of issues that affect men and boys — and ultimately women, as well as the culture as a whole.

Additionally, there is a great deal of disinformation about this movement on the internet and in the mainstream media.

With that in mind, we suggest some or all of the following reading materials, as a simple mission statement is not sufficient to fully explain our purpose and objectives."

Indeed there is "a great deal of disinformation about this movement on the internet and in the mainstream media" and liberal feminists like Rachel are contributing to it.

In reality, these groups state that they align with 'The Equal Rights Amendment', written in 1923, to make freedom from discrimination based on sex a matter of Constitutional Law in the United States. Its wording is as clear as it is brief:

•Section 1. Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex;

•Section 2. The Congress shall have the power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article;

•Section 3. This amendment shall take effect two years after the date of ratification.

Obviously, liberal feminists are disingenuously and deliberately maligning a movement that seeks to correct a blatant feminist imbalance in Western societies in which feminists agitate for a supremacy that is hurting both men and boys.

Your ad hominem Elliot Rodgers example simply leads directly feminist examples such as Valerie Solanas Valerie Solanas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let's review:

"False Accusations

Almost all rhetoric opposing the Men’s Rights Movement is based on insult, accusation and speculation of motive, and ignores the substance of arguments made in men’s rights literature. To date, no published writing, online or in print has made any serious refutation of men's rights argument. It is the opinion of most men’s rights activists that this failure represents the intellectual, factual, and ethical bankruptcy of active opposition to the men's rights movement. Consequently, only very new writers in the MRM will attempt to engage in substantive debate with opponents of men’s rights. Experienced men’s rights activists generally learn that debate with dishonest, morally bankrupt ideologues is a futile exercise. As a result, much men’s rights writing focuses on exposing the blatant corruption, double standard and anti male bigotry of rhetoric opposing the men’s rights movement.

Ideologues opposing the men’s rights movement are increasingly frustrated by the small but growing success of the movement – and have begun using false criminal accusations against men’s rights activists in efforts to shut them up, using the police to intimidate and silence them.

A common view within the MRM is that police are exploited as enforcers of feminist ideology. This is formalized by sexually biased legislation such as the Violence Against Women Act in the United States, and by use of the discredited Duluth Model informing police policy on domestic violence disputes.

Bad Actors

In addition to accusations and insults, ideologues opposing the men’s rights movement have also demonstrated a willingness to establish fake men’s rights organizations for the purpose of diluting the message of actual men's rights advocates – as well as posing as men’s rights activists but taking extremist or hateful viewpoints, to attribute those views to the larger men’s movement. The website goodmenproject.com founded by Lisa Hickey and Tom Matlack is a feminist funded operation using the first strategy mentioned." - A Voice for Men

Understanding the men’s rights movement

We talked about the manosphere in an earlier thread and now I have found evidence of the end results of this sort of movement. I am not speaking of anyone in this forum, just the consequences of men thinking they are entitled to have women as chattel. Watch out for bad language!

"The Men's Rights Movement as they call themselves is a nebulous group of pickup artists and misogynists who've found each other on line, and are attempting to create a movement based around their hatred, disdain, and fear of women.We know for a fact that Rodgers was influenced by this movement, as he is subscribed to multiple "pick up artist" or "mens rights" channels on YouTube. (For those here that don't use YouTube, when a user subscribes to a channel, they receive notifications when that channel posts a new video.):

Elliot Rodger, Gunman in California Mass Shooting, was influenced by the "Men's Rights Movement"
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#9
I can't stand the sight of snivelling men.

snivel.jpg
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,090
1,754
113
#10
"The Men's Rights Movement as they call themselves is a nebulous group of pickup artists and misogynists who've found each other on line, and are attempting to create a movement based around their hatred, disdain, and fear of women.We know for a fact that Rodgers was influenced by this movement, as he is subscribed to multiple "pick up artist" or "mens rights" channels on YouTube. (For those here that don't use YouTube, when a user subscribes to a channel, they receive notifications when that channel posts a new video.)
That sounds like propaganda by Feminists. You know Feminists, those women who yell to shut down anyone who disagrees with them, who issue bomb threats to those who would present evidence for an opposing viewpoint, women who believe in killing babies in the womb, and who think that if a woman is to be empowered, she must be a lesbian.

Of course, I am overstating my case about Feminists. I could find examples of Feminists who do all those things. But those things aren't the definition of Feminism.

'Pick up artists' aren't the same thing as Men's Rights Activist. Yet websites dealing with all those topics fall under the category of 'the manosphere'. So do some Christian patriarchal type websites.

I haven't found a single site that says that women should be chattle. Some of the MRA (men's rights activists) tend to be liberal on social issues, unlike the patriarchal type sites.

Men's Rights Activists focus on topics like the fact that in a lot of states, women tend to get the kids in custody hearings. The man is reduced to the role of a visitor in the child's life, and has the burden of paying child support, which puts him at a great financial disadvantage as opposed to raising his children in the original 2-parent home. The state creates incentives for women contemplating divorce to go through with it because they are likely to get the children and the home. Some MRA sites focus on the prejudice against men when it comes to issues like police treatment of domestic violence. Even in cases where the man calls due to his partner being violent, he could be hauled away in handcuffs. Some police districts have face pressure from Feminist groups who complain when too high a percentage, in their opinion, of women are arrested in domestic violence cases. Many police departments have been trained using faulty research such as the Duluth model, which applies the situation of one case of an abuser to all men or all domestic violence situations.

MRAs are also opposed to Feminists lobbying for 'equality of outcome' as opposed to 'equality of opportunity.' One former feminist academic turned MRA has done research that presents evidence that women actually earn more for men after controlling for a number of factors. Men tend to work longer hours, and the gap in pay between those with 40 hour a week jobs and 44 hour a week jobs is quite large according to his data. Men also tend to be more likely to work jobs where they are exposed to hazards or unpleasant weather. These men tend to be paid more accordingly. Controlling for various factors, he found that women are paid more.

These are men's rights issues.

I haven't read a lot on 'pick up artist' websites, but I did check out some of the blogs to try and figure out what the manosphere was a while back. The sites are basically about how to manipulate women into bed. Some of the pick up artist stuff may be a little less extreme, like how to get dates. The pick up artists sites can be kind of dark and I'd say misogynistic as well.

There are some Christian conservative sites like Dalrock and some of those kind of blogs whose philosophy or issues he addresses draw a bit from the overall manosphere. He makes some good points at times, but some of his posts are certainly made from a kind of manosphere perspective that, IMO, can at times cloud his judgment. Dalrock's commenters can be rather crass and crude and misogynistic, and don't always reflect the tone of his posts.

There are readers who read MRA stuff, PUA stuff, and other manosphere sites.

But it isn't fair to paint the whole manosphere or the men's rights movement as being misogynistic or violent. There are certainly some valid points from MRAs and other parts of the manosphere. There is also a lot of evil on the manosphere, promoting fornication, some hatred toward women, men trying to talk other men into having affairs and never marrying, and things of that nature.
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#11
It will all change when Jesus rules after the Second Coming ... and He will rule with an iron rod. Let these groups have their fun now because the party will come to an end very soon.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,059
1,497
113
#12
I'm a bit confused. I have always felt that God brought man and woman together as one body in him. Man as the head of that body, and woman as the heart. It is the difference that makes the body work.
 

Loveneverfails

Senior Member
Feb 18, 2013
1,294
26
0
#13
Huh...I thought that the Men's rights movement was a segment within the Manosphere, existing alongside the PUA's but not directly associated with them. I thought the Men's rights movement was the group that sought to combat certain issues in which men are supposedly victimized or disadvantaged. I say supposedly not because I disbelieve or discredit these issues, but because I have not done enough research on the matter to define them with confidence. This seems to be separate from the pickup artists/misogynists, though they are all within the Manosphere.
 
Last edited:

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,090
1,754
113
#14
Huh...I thought that the Men's rights movement was a segment within the Manosphere, existing alongside the PUA's but not directly associated with them. I thought the Men's rights movement was the group that sought to combat certain issues in which men are supposedly victimized or disadvantaged. I say supposedly not because I disbelieve or discredit these issues, but because I have not done enough research on the matter to define them with confidence. This seems to be separate from the pickup artists/misogynists, though they are all within the Manosphere.
That's my impression, too. Of course, the men's rights movement is outside of the manosphere, too, since the manosphere describes websites of PUAs, men's rights movements sites, and various other sites.
 
Mar 21, 2011
1,515
16
0
#15
Real men don't need a men's rights group.

Harden up.
 
D

didymos

Guest
#16
Who needs a Men's Rights Movement anyway:

'This is a man's world.'

~James Brown~

[video=youtube;wd1-HM234DE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd1-HM234DE&feature=kp[/video]
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
9,090
1,754
113
#17
Real men don't need a men's rights group.

Harden up.

I don't think treating men's issues with the philosophy of the Equal Rights Amendment through the lens of western political philosophy is the cure for problems in society. I think we'd be better off to embrace Biblical values related to marriage and the roles of husbands and wives.

One issue where I see where a movement like this could be helpful is because women have an incentive to divorce if they have a high probability of getting the kids and child support. Men can be reduced to visitors in their children's livesUnemployed men can be thrown in debtor's prison for not paying child support.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#18
Don't get me started on you David. Don't EVEN get me started on you... lol.


Real men don't need a men's rights group.

Harden up.
 
A

AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#19
Good post. I agree. But like you say with the only marriage demographic not statistically in free fall being immoral people who engage in homosexual acts with each other; we've got a serious societal problem. Four out of ten children in the U.S. are born into a home with no father present. Though there are a number of causes for that SECULAR FEMINISM sits at the head of the table regardless of the mainstream liberal media says.

No man wants to have his children taught to hate him by a vindictive ex who got a no fault divorce and now lives in the house he makes payments on while he rents a room from some bros trying to stay out of jail for missing payments while she spends her money in the cougar bar scene. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and men are opting out of allowing themselves to be in a position where bad things can happen to them.

"Marriage is doomed and will be virtually extinct within 30 years, according to the country's leading relationship experts."

Marriage 'will be extinct in 30 years' | Mail Online

Few young men in today's post-Christian Western societies are committed to celibacy before marriage in a serious way and most of those are genuine Christians (not to be confused with the nominal person who only professes to be and then does whatever they feel like anyways) who will always marry no matter what the cost proving that secular feminism hurts Christian males first and foremost.

They either opt out altogether and just live woman to woman making sure to use protection (especially if they've already had a taste of the legal system because an early girlfriend became pregnant and didn't get an abortion) or they cohabitate. They give her a "promise ring" and do NOT marry her.

The payoff is they get to keep a material degree of their independence and limit their legal liabilities. If serious relationship problems develop, they can bail as an unmarried boyfriend rather than as a husband. Statistically, young men in particular increasingly see this as the only sane route for them going forward.

It's not biblical. It's not Christian. But it's the new reality moving forward for Western societies for most young males who are going to do whatever they have to do to protect their independence and minimize their liabilities in a materially anti-male liberal culture and legal system.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the mainstream media put as much effort into restoring marriage for the sake of the children as they do in pushing LGBT. But they don't care about children, they care about the other. That's obvious by their omission on the first and their obsession with the second.
 

proverbs35

Senior Member
Nov 10, 2012
825
239
43
#20
I don't think treating men's issues with the philosophy of the Equal Rights Amendment through the lens of western political philosophy is the cure for problems in society. I think we'd be better off to embrace Biblical values related to marriage and the roles of husbands and wives.

One issue where I see where a movement like this could be helpful is because women have an incentive to divorce if they have a high probability of getting the kids and child support. Men can be reduced to visitors in their children's livesUnemployed men can be thrown in debtor's prison for not paying child support.
Some women may divorce with the hope that they will be able to get primary custody with child support and/or alimony. However, that's not the case for thousands to millions of single mothers. According to the US Census Bureau, there is a strong link between single motherhood and poverty. Children in father-absent homes are almost four times more likely to be poor. http://www.fatherhood.org/bid/19020...1df03b78|171ff68a-ea2f-4080-8b1f-b0231e2400b3

"The number of Americans in poverty remained largely unchanged at a record 46.5 million. Single-mother families in poverty increased for the fourth straight year to 4.1 million, or 41.5 percent, coinciding with longer-term trends of declining marriage and out-of-wedlock births." 4.1 Million Single-Mother Families Are Living In Poverty: Census

"1 in 3 American women live at or near the brink of poverty. That's 42 million women and 28 million children who depend on them. [They a just a] medical illness , a missed paycheck, a broken-down car away from economic ruin."
The Shriver Report: Female Poverty in America - Video on NBCNews.com

When a dad doesn't financially support a child or children being raised by a single mother living below poverty level, taxpayers have to take up the slack, and the children have to go on public assistance.

These mothers and children aren't getting rich or living in the lap of luxury on public assistance and/or child support. Many states like Illinois have a Welfare Law Formula. "In Illinois, the state gives no more than $50 of a father's monthly child support payment to a mother who's receiving Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, or welfare benefits. The rest of the father's payment goes to the state to pay back what it has paid out in public aid."
Changing how much child support goes to women on welfare - Chicago Tribune

The average mother isn't getting a divorce or avoiding marriage because they have a "high probability" of getting child support. If the probability of getting child support was so high, there wouldn't be millions of single mothers and children living below poverty level. Are there greedy mothers out there who are largely motivated by financial gain rather than the preservation of family life? Absolutely, but that's not the overwhelming picture of single motherhood in America. The overwhelming face of single motherhood in America is poverty.

Raising the minimum wage could have really benefited single mothers and children living below poverty level. However, senate republicans blocked the min. wage increase.
Raise the minimum wage, health care access for moms - SFGate