Why is that we are in bondage?

pastac · Jul 21, 2014

Red Tent the veil was rent it was broken,torn Jesus said himself it is finished. If he said it is finished what was he referring to? Come on you talk of understanding this is basic scripture am I to believe you over Jesus and his own words? Or are you trying to say he meant other than what he said. No we have Not always had mercy that is incorrect there was no mercy under the law. The law was the law if you broke the law you suffered the consequences for the offense against the law.
And we are not to continue to beat dead horses they will never rise. Mute issues that gender strife and do not edify is not profitable for the body. Here is a thought for you some of Gods business is still Gods business he allows us to know certain things and other things remain a mystery!!
Finished meant finished.. Years of prophecy that the Messiah would come he came completed his work in the earth up until that point. He fulfilled the prophecy up until his death! He then left us with a new covenant as the old one was finished so who is in error? In all your getting get understand then you can stand under this word.
You believe as others and must be renewed in your thinking as others. I will say if I be wrong Lord forgive my error, but I am assured that the word is literal as well as figurative not just allegorical or symbolic. Jesus said it is finished gave up the Ghost and his earthly position and died. He then arose and in his resurrection he did away with anymore sacrifices of animals for he was the ultimate sacrifice so that covenant died with him and was buried with him upon his resurrection was a new covenant established that we would continue to walk in with the assistance of the Holy Spirit in the earth and in our hearts..

eternally-gratefull · Jul 21, 2014

Scuba said:

1. The law requires perfect obedience, anything short of this requires a curse (death)
2. You are not perfect. So you must continue to strive to be perfect if you are going to follow the law (and to be honest, even then you would not be perfect. Only think you are)
3. Sine you are not perfect. And are following the law. You are in bondage to keep following the law. or fear you have failed(as those who think you an lose salvation must do, the ones who do not think they are ok by the law. but are fooled into this thinking)

or you can come out of bondage and be adopted by God himself., and he can become your abba father

Scuba · Jul 21, 2014

Dan58 said:

So the Gospel is that Jesus freed us by defeating sin, death, and the devil? They had the same Gospel preached to them yet they rested every Sabbath. As a matter of fact, what happened to them as a result of their disobedience is an example for us. The seventh day Sabbath was created before sin. God Himself rested on the seventh day. Does He need to be set freed from sin, death, and the devil? Working animals are to rest on the seventh day. Do they need to be set freed from sin, death, and the devil? Jesus set us free from sin? Is the Law sin?

Scuba · Jul 21, 2014

Flamingspirit said:

I don't judge one's salvation nor do I hate anyone. My goal is to help people draw closer to God in truth. Sunday, as the Lord's day, is not true. Jesus being born on December 25th is not true. Jesus' resurrection on Easter Sunday is not true. So here is the dilemma you put me in. If I share truth I'm a hater but if you share lies you're not. If I obey truth I'm in bondage but if you obey lies you're not. Oh how clever and sly is the Evil one...

eternally-gratefull · Jul 21, 2014

Scuba said:

this all sounds great, but is nothing but human Good.

Gods day is every day. the sabbath day was our day (a Day of rest) not for G0Ds benefit, but for our own.

if you can;t get this basic fact straight, maybe you should rethink you doctrines.

Scuba · Jul 21, 2014

Hashe said:

No doubt! But, truth is still important. Jesus taught us the weightier matters of the Law which are justice and mercy and faith but in doing so He says we should still obey the Law.

Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

All these changes to God's times and Law have their root and Babylon and were brought into God's people by Antichrist. This was prophesied by God to happen. God is calling His people to come out of Babylon. We are not to follow the ways of Babylon.

Scuba · Jul 21, 2014

Hashe said:

Jesus gives us freedom from being a slave to sin so that we can become a slave to righteousness.

Romans 6:12-18 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Scuba · Jul 21, 2014

fredjames said:

To me, it was the letter of the Law that brought the strictness and bondage to the Sabbath and it was religious man who made it a ritualistic burden because of the letter.

God created the day holy, which means it's special to God and should be to His people. The Sabbath is a time of celebration and fellowship. In Christ we are set free from the letter of the Law to celebrate the Sabbath for what it was intended for, a memorial of creation. It's a holy day so set it aside and celebrate as you would a happy day.

Nehemiah 8:10 He said, “Go and enjoy choice food and sweet drinks, and send some to those who have nothing prepared. This day is holy to our Lord. Do not grieve, for the joy of the Lord is your strength.”

The day was never changed to another day but the keeping of the letter was. Make the Sabbath day special and a joy, not ritualistic and legalistic. Do what you want to make the day special and do what you need if the details of life prevent you from celebrating the Sabbath this week. We are not to judge anyone in what they do on the holy and ordained days of God.

Remember what Jesus taught us...Matthew 12:12..."it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

Scuba · Jul 21, 2014

Flamingspirit said:

Just because God chooses to use something in His creation to teach us a spiritual truth does not mean He does away with it. If God chooses to use the Sabbath to teach us a spiritual truth does that mean we now change the day to another day or do away with the day? God uses marriage between a man and a woman to help us understand a spiritual truth too. Do we now do away with marriage? Do we now chnage marriage to now being between a man and a man or a woman and a woman?

The seventh day is part of creation itself. It's a memorial of creation that bears witness to creation and its Creator. We can never change that nor would we want to, unless God being the Creator was a threat to you and your ability to receive worship.

Isaiah 14:13-15 You said in your heart, “I will ascend to the heavens; I will raise my throneabove the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.”

It's hard to be worshiped as God when there are so many things in creation that testify of the one true God. You must remove the things that testify of the true God before you can make yourself like the Most High. Unlocking Bible Prophecy

Scuba · Jul 21, 2014

All good is of God but not all good is used to glorify God. We should do our good works in such a way that our Father in heaven receives the glory.

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

Practicing what is false is not good works nor does our heavenly Father receive the glory, Satan does. When we worship the Beast through obeying it's doctrines, we are actually worshiping the Dragon.

Revelation 13:4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?”

Unlocking Bible Prophecy

Gods day is every day. the sabbath day was our day (a Day of rest) not for G0Ds benefit, but for our own.

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Would that also be true in the Old testament as well?

Leviticus 23:3 “You have six days each week for your ordinary work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath day of complete rest, an official day for holy assembly. It is the Lord’s Sabbath day, and it must be observed wherever you live.

Why do you honor Sunday? The Bible says nowhere that Sunday is the Lord's day.

if you can;t get this basic fact straight, maybe you should rethink you doctrines.

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Why don't you help me get my doctrines straight? Show me where the Bible says Sunday is the Lord's day so that I might obey it? Show me where Jesus changed the seventh day Sabbath to Sunday so that I may follow my Lord? He is our example your know. Show me where Jesus said He is Lord of the Venerable Day of the Sun?

eternally-gratefull · Jul 21, 2014

Scuba said:

What makes you think your any better than the pharisees and jews trying to add law to grace? That does not glorify God

I do not honor Sunday, what makes you think that? I rest on saterday, I am busy with Gods work on Sunday.

Why do you dishonor the sabbath by working on it?

I have no idea what your talking about. Sunday is not the Lords day,

Scuba · Jul 21, 2014

Why do you twist God's word? God adds grace to Law, not Law to grace. Grace is not the absence of Law, it's the absence of punishment. Grace teaches us to deny unrighteousness and to live righteous. Are you beginning to see your twisted theology?

That's nice...so you sleep all day on the Lord's day? Sometimes the Lord's day is the busiest day of the week for me.

Why do you dishonor the sabbath by working on it?

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Can you give me chapter and verse for this statement?

You're silly! You must be the only one who does not say, "Sunday is the Lord's day".

eternally-gratefull · Jul 21, 2014

Scuba said:

Your wrong on both ends.

Grace saves, The law condemns, the two do not mix..

Then your not resting as God said you are too. thus you are dishonoring the sabbath

Exodus 20:10

but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Exodus 31:15
Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

According to the law. All your hard work on day 7 would cause you your life.

You do not get out much do you? or is it that you have listened to your pastor to long, and believed his lies about other people?

RedTent · Jul 21, 2014

Flamingspirit said:

It seems to me that a shadow cannot have a different shape from what it is a shadow of. If I only say a shadow of a tree, I would still recognize it as a tree, just an incomplete picture. You are saying that by seeing a shadow of the Sabbath (although I haven't seen a scripture saying Sabbath is a shadow like animal blood was) you can't recognize the Sabbath.

It also doesn't make sense to me that because mankind can fully rest it means there is absolutely no other kinds of rest that scripture talks of. God isn't that limited.

It also does not sound like good listening to scripture to say that because the Lord lets us choose the day, we may not speak to each other about the last day of the week as the day Genesis speaks of as the day the Lord created for special blessings for us. We speak of other things of scripture, surely we can speak of that, too.

john832 · Jul 21, 2014

Kerry said:

OK, Romans 14...

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

The subject here? Vegetarianism

Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only, don’t let this puff you up…

2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

What is the gold standard here?

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Now to the meat and potatoes…

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

From Bullingers Companion Bible…

Luke 18:12

twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7). By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts. In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost; and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.

Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.

Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.

1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

Shambles…

G3111
μάκελλον
makellon
Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549

There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this. They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…

Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Meat here is…

G1035
βρῶσις
brōsis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively); by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.

Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.

G4213
πόσις
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.

Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character. He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…

Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using

after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…

G1033
βρῶμα
brōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111

Again, we are dealing with food.

Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink) that makes a weak brother stumble.

Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats. The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.

john832 · Jul 21, 2014

Kerry said:

So you call murder, adultery and idolatry freedom?

eternally-gratefull · Jul 21, 2014

john832 said:

no more than I would call a little white lie. Selfishness, and pride freedom.

What is bondage is being bound to that which can not make you righteous.

john832 · Jul 21, 2014

Flamingspirit said:

Reminds me of a former president...

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."

john832 · Jul 21, 2014

Dan58 said:

Because your obeying the old covenant by worshipping Saturday instead of Christ. Each 7th day was appointed for the children of Israel to rest (Exodus 31:16-17). For 400 years they had no rest as slaves, and the sabbath rest was a time set-aside to remember their deliverance. But this observance foreshadowed the new covenant, when the Lord of the Sabbath became our perpetual rest (salvation). Jesus freed us by defeating sin, death, and the devil. Because of his truth and sacrifice, we are no longer captives bound by sin. Believers are no longer slaves to sin, because we were liberated by Christ. God rested (paused) from His work and Jesus finished it. Our rest is now in Christ and its everlasting. jmo

So we keep the Spirit of the Law while violating the letter? How does that translate to murder or adultery or idolatry?

john832 · Jul 21, 2014

Hashe said:

Hashe says don't worry about keeping the Law and Jesus Christ says...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I gotta go with Christ on this one.

Why is that we are in bondage?

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