Baptism Essential to Salvation

[mailmandan]

your teaching are incorrect...the scripture teaches something happens at baptism..you have no faith so you don't believe...

Says you. What happened to these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 BEFORE they were water baptized? Something happened at Spirit baptism prior to water baptism. Water baptism is the picture, not the reality, the shadow, not the substance. I have faith in Christ. I BELIEVE IN HIM (John 3:18; Acts 10:43), not in H20. You have faith in baptism, not in Him, so you don't believe.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Again, this is picturesque language. Water baptism is the picture, not the reality. The picture in baptism points two ways, backwards to Christ's death and burial and to our death to sin, forwards to Christ's resurrection from the dead and to our new life pledged by the coming out of the watery grave. There is the further picture of our own resurrection from the grave. Before mentioning baptism in chapter 6, Paul had repeatedly emphasized that FAITH, not water baptism is the instrumental cause of salvation/justification (Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:4-6; 5:1). That is when the old man was put to death and united in the likeness of His death, which water baptism symbolizes and pictures.

What exactly are you saved from? Seems to me you don't know you are being saved from sin and death...

You really think that I don't know that? Are you kidding me?

Where does the scripture teach our sins are remitted if not at baptism?

The Bible teaches that we are saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8) and justified by faith (Romans 5:1). People who are saved and justified are not lost and still in need of having their sins remitted. Also, faith precedes water baptism. If we are saved and justified at the moment of faith, then we don't need to comply with any further conditions to have our sins remitted.

*In Acts 10:43 we see that whosoever BELIEVES IN HIM shall receive REMISSION OF SINS. *What happened to baptism?

*In Romans 3:24-26, we see that: Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation THROUGH FAITH IN HIS BLOOD, to declare His righteousness for the REMISSION OF SINS that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which BELIEVES IN JESUS. *What happened to baptism?

 

[mailmandan]

I can think of two verses to consider;


1Pe 3:21; "Baptism doth also now save us."

Why didn't you consider the rest of the verse in order to figure out what Peter meant? 1 Peter 3:21 tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He says that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not the part which saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents."

By saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience -through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony itself. So in 1 Peter 3:21; it's not the water itself that saves us, but the "appeal-to-God-for-good-conscience". Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ark for the SAVING of his household). NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY THE WICKED IN NOAH'S DAY CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE WATER AND THEY ALL PERISHED.

Mark 16:16; "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved."

Again, why didn't you consider the rest of the verse? ..but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say whoever is not water baptized will be condemned. If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism?

My vote's for YES. It IS necessary for salvation.

By only quoting the first half of 1 Peter 3:21 and Mark 16:16 and ignoring the second half of the verses and what Jesus said in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26 and the rest of the Bible (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9 etc..), of course your vote would be yes.

 

[notuptome]

I give you 4 versions choose anyone.....
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

-----------------------
[SUP]20 [/SUP]who in the past were disobedient, when God patiently waited in the days of Noah while an ark was being prepared. In it a few—that is, eight people[SUP][a][/SUP]—were saved through water. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge[SUP][b][/SUP] of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Now that He has gone into heaven, He is at God’s right hand with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him.
-----------------------------
[SUP]20 [/SUP]spirits of those who, long before in the days of Noah, had refused to listen to God, though he waited patiently for them while Noah was building the ark. Yet only eight persons were saved from drowning in that terrible flood. [SUP]21 [/SUP](That, by the way, is what baptism pictures for us: In baptism we show that we have been saved from death and doom by the resurrection of Christ;[SUP][a][/SUP] not because our bodies are washed clean by the water but because in being baptized we are turning to God and asking him to cleanse our hearts from sin.) [SUP]22 [/SUP]And now Christ is in heaven, sitting in the place of honor next to God the Father, with all the angels and powers of heaven bowing before him and obeying him.
------------------------------
[SUP]20 [/SUP]to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, [SUP]21[/SUP]and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[SUP][a][/SUP] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, [SUP]22 [/SUP]who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

You fail to face the question. Are you saved by water or saved by grace? Don't sidestep the question. It is important to get that question correct before you endeavor to address the issue of water baptism. Failure to do so can only result in an incorrect conclusion.

The whole counsel of Gods word must agree. There can be no conflicts in doctrine. Either we are saved by grace or we are saved by something else. Examine yourself before God and answer the question.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[newbirth]

Why didn't you consider the rest of the verse in order to figure out what Peter meant? 1 Peter 3:21 tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He says that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not the part which saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents."

try this version it does not agree with you...
1 Peter 3:21Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the pledge[SUP][a][/SUP] of a good conscience toward God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
try this version it does not agree with you...
1 Peter 3:21Living Bible (TLB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP](That, by the way, is what baptism pictures for us: In baptism we show that we have been saved from death and doom by the resurrection of Christ;[SUP][a][/SUP] not because our bodies are washed clean by the water but because in being baptized we are turning to God and asking him to cleanse our hearts from sin.)

try this version it does not agree with you...
1 Peter 3:21New International Version (NIV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[SUP][a][/SUP] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
try this version it does not agree with you...

1 Peter 3:21New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,







By saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience -through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony itself. So in 1 Peter 3:21; it's not the water itself that saves us, but the "appeal-to-God-for-good-conscience". Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ark for the SAVING of his household). NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY THE WICKED IN NOAH'S DAY CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE WATER AND THEY ALL PERISHED.



Again, why didn't you consider the rest of the verse? ..but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say whoever is not water baptized will be condemned. If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism?



By only quoting the first half of 1 Peter 3:21 and Mark 16:16 and ignoring the second half of the verses and what Jesus said in John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26 and the rest of the Bible (Acts 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9 etc..), of course your vote would be yes.

Peter is saying baptism does save you, it is not a bath for the physical body but it is the sign to show you have been given a clear conscience (no sin ) toward God through the resurrection of Christ (that is what faith in God is)
What is the teaching in the scripture for remission of sin? What is the promise to those who repent and are baptised for the remission of sins?
I don't think Peter is trying to confuse anyone.He will not say baptism saves you, only to tell you after, it does not. Because this scripture does not sit well with a doctrine ,men would rather twist the word to suit their doctrine. Why not find other scripture to support what the word says? If one looks carefully men are looking at the pure word of God and saying it does not mean what it says.

 

[SeaBass]

Peter is saying baptism does save you, it is not a bath for the physical body but it is the sign to show you have been given a clear conscience (no sin ) toward God through the resurrection of Christ (that is what faith in God is)
What is the teaching in the scripture for remission of sin? What is the promise to those who repent and are baptised for the remission of sins?
I don't think Peter is trying to confuse anyone.He will not say baptism saves you, only to tell you after, it does not. Because this scripture does not sit well with a doctrine ,men would rather twist the word to suit their doctrine. Why not find other scripture to support what the word says? If one looks carefully men are looking at the pure word of God and saying it does not mean what it says.

"Baptism doth also noW save us"......some are just grasping for anyway to change a "W" to a "T" or change "water" to "ark" in verse 20.

 

[notuptome]

Peter is saying baptism does save you, it is not a bath for the physical body but it is the sign to show you have been given a clear conscience (no sin ) toward God through the resurrection of Christ (that is what faith in God is)
What is the teaching in the scripture for remission of sin? What is the promise to those who repent and are baptised for the remission of sins?
I don't think Peter is trying to confuse anyone.He will not say baptism saves you, only to tell you after, it does not. Because this scripture does not sit well with a doctrine ,men would rather twist the word to suit their doctrine. Why not find other scripture to support what the word says? If one looks carefully men are looking at the pure word of God and saying it does not mean what it says.

The argument is not that Peter did not know but that you do not know. Until you can demonstrate how your view of water baptism aligns with Paul writing in Ephesians 2:8-9 that we are saved by grace you will not be aligned with what the scriptures teach. Peter and Paul both writing by Holy Spirit inspiration did not present conflicting positions.

Answer are you saved by grace or saved by water baptism?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

"Baptism doth also noW save us"......some are just grasping for anyway to change a "W" to a "T" or change "water" to "ark" in verse 20.

Some are simply presenting a gospel that is not the gospel. Are you saved by grace or saved by water baptism? Can you answer the question without obfuscation?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

Some are simply presenting a gospel that is not the gospel. Are you saved by grace or saved by water baptism? Can you answer the question without obfuscation?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

"baptism doth also noW save us" is the gospel.
"baptism doth also noT save us" is not the gospel

God's grace is conditional requiring obedience (Heb 5:9) which includes water baptism (Mk 16:16). So I am saved by both grace and water baptism.

The bible teaches grace saves, Tts 2:11 and teaches baptism saves, 1 Pet 3:21:

Tts 2:11----------grace>>>>>>>>>>>saves
1Pet3:21---------baptism>>>>>>>>>>saves

Since there is just one way to be saved then grace must include water baptism. The bible does NOT teach 'grace alone' saves no more than it teaches 'baptism alone' saves.

 

[Joidevivre]

The man on the other cross when Jesus was crucified was not baptized - yet Jesus said that because he believed he would see him in Paradise after death. Baptism is just an outward form of an inner surrender to die to self and live for Jesus. In working with the dying there are times when you use water lightly sprinkled on them to be a form of their total surrender...after all, they can't be immersed. I'm sure Jesus honors that. It is a matter of the heart - not the letter of the law.

 

[Alligator]

The man on the other cross when Jesus was crucified was not baptized - yet Jesus said that because he believed he would see him in Paradise after death. Baptism is just an outward form of an inner surrender to die to self and live for Jesus. In working with the dying there are times when you use water lightly sprinkled on them to be a form of their total surrender...after all, they can't be immersed. I'm sure Jesus honors that. It is a matter of the heart - not the letter of the law.

We are not told whether or not the thief was baptized. But it is irrelevant since the thief was not subject to baptism because Christ's Law, the New Testament was not yet in effect, see Heb. 9:16-17.

Baptism means to immerse so sprinkling is not scriptural. I leave those special circumstances in God's hands.

 

[Fishbait]

"baptism doth also noW save us" is the gospel.
"baptism doth also noT save us" is not the gospel

God's grace is conditional requiring obedience (Heb 5:9) which includes water baptism (Mk 16:16). So I am saved by both grace and water baptism.

The bible teaches grace saves, Tts 2:11 and teaches baptism saves, 1 Pet 3:21:

Tts 2:11----------grace>>>>>>>>>>>saves
1Pet3:21---------baptism>>>>>>>>>>saves

Since there is just one way to be saved then grace must include water baptism. The bible does NOT teach 'grace alone' saves no more than it teaches 'baptism alone' saves.

One of the most nagging questions in Christianity is whether or not water baptism is necessary for salvation. The answer is a simple, "No, water baptism is not necessary for salvation." But you might ask, "If the answer is no, then why are there verses that say things like '...baptism that now saves you...' (1 Pet. 3:21) and '...Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins...' (Acts 2:38)?" These are good questions and they deserve a good answer. But for now, the reason water baptism is not necessary for salvation is because we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8), not by faith and a ceremony (Rom. 4:1-11). You see, a religious ceremony is a set of activities or forms peformed by someone. In the Bible circumcision was a ceremony where one person performed a religious rite on another person. Likewise, water baptism is also a ceremony where one person performs a religious rite on another person. But, we are saved by faith alone and anything else we do, including ceremonies, will not help.

If we are saved by faith, then we are saved by faith when we believe, not when we get baptized in water, otherwise we are not saved by faith. Furthermore, if water baptism is necessary for salvation then anyone who receives Christ on his deathbed in a hospital and who also believes Jesus is God in the flesh, who died and rose from the dead for his sins, etc., would go to hell if he doesn't get baptized in water before he died. This would mean that we were not justified by faith because if we were, then the person would be saved. Also, if water baptism is necessary for salvation, then all babies who die go to hell since they weren't baptized in water. Remember, when someone says that water baptism is necessary, there can be no exceptions -- otherwise it isn't necessary.

 

[Alligator]

One of the most nagging questions in Christianity is whether or not water baptism is necessary for salvation. The answer is a simple, "No, water baptism is not necessary for salvation." But you might ask, "If the answer is no, then why are there verses that say things like '...baptism that now saves you...' (1 Pet. 3:21) and '...Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins...' (Acts 2:38)?" These are good questions and they deserve a good answer. But for now, the reason water baptism is not necessary for salvation is because we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8), not by faith and a ceremony (Rom. 4:1-11). You see, a religious ceremony is a set of activities or forms peformed by someone. In the Bible circumcision was a ceremony where one person performed a religious rite on another person. Likewise, water baptism is also a ceremony where one person performs a religious rite on another person. But, we are saved by faith alone and anything else we do, including ceremonies, will not help.

If we are saved by faith, then we are saved by faith when we believe, not when we get baptized in water, otherwise we are not saved by faith. Furthermore, if water baptism is necessary for salvation then anyone who receives Christ on his deathbed in a hospital and who also believes Jesus is God in the flesh, who died and rose from the dead for his sins, etc., would go to hell if he doesn't get baptized in water before he died. This would mean that we were not justified by faith because if we were, then the person would be saved. Also, if water baptism is necessary for salvation, then all babies who die go to hell since they weren't baptized in water. Remember, when someone says that water baptism is necessary, there can be no exceptions -- otherwise it isn't necessary.

No, the bible doesn't say we are saved by faith alone. Ironically, it says just the opposite (Jas. 2:24). Actually, we are not saved by anything alone. We are saved by grace through faith but that grace
is conditional. Death bed conversions we should leave in the hands of a merciful God. Babies are of course not subject to baptism. A.baby has no sin and is not even capable of reasoning.

 

[mailmandan]

Peter is saying baptism does save you, it is not a bath for the physical body but it is the sign to show you have been given a clear conscience (no sin) toward God through the resurrection of Christ (that is what faith in God is)

No, Peter is not saying that the mechanical act of water baptism saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), but an appeal to God for a good conscience (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism). We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents." What literally saved Noah and his family? Water or the ARK? (Hebrews 11:7).

What is the teaching in the scripture for remission of sin? What is the promise to those who repent and are baptised for the remission of sins?

I already explained this to you numerous times. In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical.

Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 10:43-47 - To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins. While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" *What happened to baptism in verse 43?

Acts 11:17 - If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) who was I that I could withstand God?" When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life. *What happened to baptism?

Acts 15:8,9 - So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. *What happened to baptism?

Faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38; 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31). *Perfect Harmony*

I don't think Peter is trying to confuse anyone. He will not say baptism saves you, only to tell you after, it does not.

Peter did not want to confuse anyone and that's why we went on to explain exactly what he meant in 1 Peter 3:21. Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it depicts Christ's death, burial and resurrections and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death and resurrection. Right after Peter says that baptism now saves us, conscious that his statement is liable to be misunderstood (as demonstrated by you), Peter explains himself: Negatively, baptism does not save because water is applied to the body: “not the removal of the filth of the flesh.” Water can only cleanse the flesh outwardly; it does not cleanse the heart from sin. Baptism follows a personal response to God as indicated by the phrase “the answer of a good conscience toward God.” It is that aspect of baptism (what is signified, “the answer of a good conscience toward God”) rather than the external rite (the sign, the application of water) that saves. The symbol and the reality are so closely related that the symbol is sometimes used to refer to the reality and that seems to be what is confusing you. A FLOOD OF CONFUSION. If Peter wanted to say that water baptism literally saves us, then why didn't he simply so in Acts 10:43 and in 1 Peter 3:21, "without the clarifying explanation?" Why didn't Paul simply say so in Ephesians 2:8? Scripture must harmonize with scripture.

Because this scripture does not sit well with a doctrine, men would rather twist the word to suit their doctrine.

Twisting the word to suit your doctrine is exactly what you have done and you have continued to avoid answering my questions in previous posts which demonstrates to me that you are not willing to seriously consider the truth, but are determined to accommodate your doctrine at all costs.

Why not find other scripture to support what the word says? If one looks carefully men are looking at the pure word of God and saying it does not mean what it says.

These verses - (Acts 3:19; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..) don't mean what they say to you and you are forced to try and make them "conform" to your biased interpretation of Acts 2:38, but the shoe does not fit. You need to learn to harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine, but first you need to repent and BELIEVE the gospel (Romans 1:16).

 

[mailmandan]

Some are simply presenting a gospel that is not the gospel.

Amen! The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). The gospel is a message of grace to be received through faith. The gospel is not baptism or a set of rituals to perform or a code of laws to be obeyed or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation. The gospel simply sets forth Christ crucified, buried and risen as the Savior of all who believe/trust in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of their salvation.

 

[SeaBass]

One of the most nagging questions in Christianity is whether or not water baptism is necessary for salvation. The answer is a simple, "No, water baptism is not necessary for salvation." But you might ask, "If the answer is no, then why are there verses that say things like '...baptism that now saves you...' (1 Pet. 3:21) and '...Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins...' (Acts 2:38)?" These are good questions and they deserve a good answer. But for now, the reason water baptism is not necessary for salvation is because we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8), not by faith and a ceremony (Rom. 4:1-11). You see, a religious ceremony is a set of activities or forms peformed by someone. In the Bible circumcision was a ceremony where one person performed a religious rite on another person. Likewise, water baptism is also a ceremony where one person performs a religious rite on another person. But, we are saved by faith alone and anything else we do, including ceremonies, will not help.

If we are saved by faith, then we are saved by faith when we believe, not when we get baptized in water, otherwise we are not saved by faith. Furthermore, if water baptism is necessary for salvation then anyone who receives Christ on his deathbed in a hospital and who also believes Jesus is God in the flesh, who died and rose from the dead for his sins, etc., would go to hell if he doesn't get baptized in water before he died. This would mean that we were not justified by faith because if we were, then the person would be saved. Also, if water baptism is necessary for salvation, then all babies who die go to hell since they weren't baptized in water. Remember, when someone says that water baptism is necessary, there can be no exceptions -- otherwise it isn't necessary.

Eph 2:8--------------------faith>>>>>>>>saves
1Pet3:21-----------------baptism>>>>>>>saves

Since there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives, then a NT faith must include baptism else one is trying to create a multitude of ways to be saved.

 

[newbirth]

You fail to face the question. Are you saved by water or saved by grace? Don't sidestep the question. It is important to get that question correct before you endeavor to address the issue of water baptism. Failure to do so can only result in an incorrect conclusion.

The whole counsel of Gods word must agree. There can be no conflicts in doctrine. Either we are saved by grace or we are saved by something else. Examine yourself before God and answer the question.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

For one to ask if are saved by grace against this background I would ask where is the"through faith?" So I am saying to you we are saved by grace through faith, water baptism is an act of faith.

 

[newbirth]

The argument is not that Peter did not know but that you do not know. Until you can demonstrate how your view of water baptism aligns with Paul writing in Ephesians 2:8-9 that we are saved by grace you will not be aligned with what the scriptures teach. Peter and Paul both writing by Holy Spirit inspiration did not present conflicting positions.

Answer are you saved by grace or saved by water baptism?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

we are saved by grace through faith....water baptism is an act of faith. Ask a question pertaining to sound doctrine ,don't try to box me in with that silly half truth.

 

[newbirth]

Peter did not want to confuse anyone and that's why we went on to explain exactly what he meant in 1 Peter 3:21. Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it depicts Christ's death, burial and resurrections and our identification with Him in these experiences. In reality, believers are saved by what baptism symbolizes--Christ's death and resurrection. Right after Peter says that baptism now saves us, conscious that his statement is liable to be misunderstood (as demonstrated by you), Peter explains himself: Negatively, baptism does not save because water is applied to the body: “not the removal of the filth of the flesh.” Water can only cleanse the flesh outwardly; it does not cleanse the heart from sin. Baptism follows a personal response to God as indicated by the phrase “the answer of a good conscience toward God.” It is that aspect of baptism (what is signified, “the answer of a good conscience toward God”) rather than the external rite (the sign, the application of water) that saves. The symbol and the reality are so closely related that the symbol is sometimes used to refer to the reality and that seems to be what is confusing you. A FLOOD OF CONFUSION. If Peter wanted to say that water baptism literally saves us, then why didn't he simply so in Acts 10:43 and in 1 Peter 3:21, "without the clarifying explanation?" Why didn't Paul simply say so in Ephesians 2:8? Scripture must harmonize with scripture.

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which words tell you baptism does not save you?
[SUP]21 [/SUP]The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
He is saying what baptism is not...baptism is not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but (it is ) the answer of a good conscience toward God.
My friend this is an epistle not a recording Peter would have had enough time to write 'baptism does not save you' and scratch 'baptism doth also now save us'

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Is it safe to say... if we have not been planted together in the likeness of his death. we shall not be also in the likeness of his resurrection? Just asking, you seem to have all the answers, read the verses above carefully ... seems very clear to me `

 

[newbirth]

One of the most nagging questions in Christianity is whether or not water baptism is necessary for salvation. The answer is a simple, "No, water baptism is not necessary for salvation." But you might ask, "If the answer is no, then why are there verses that say things like '...baptism that now saves you...' (1 Pet. 3:21) and '...Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins...' (Acts 2:38)?" These are good questions and they deserve a good answer. But for now, the reason water baptism is not necessary for salvation is because we are justified by faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8), not by faith and a ceremony (Rom. 4:1-11). You see, a religious ceremony is a set of activities or forms peformed by someone. In the Bible circumcision was a ceremony where one person performed a religious rite on another person. Likewise, water baptism is also a ceremony where one person performs a religious rite on another person. But, we are saved by faith alone and anything else we do, including ceremonies, will not help.

If we are saved by faith, then we are saved by faith when we believe, not when we get baptized in water, otherwise we are not saved by faith. Furthermore, if water baptism is necessary for salvation then anyone who receives Christ on his deathbed in a hospital and who also believes Jesus is God in the flesh, who died and rose from the dead for his sins, etc., would go to hell if he doesn't get baptized in water before he died. This would mean that we were not justified by faith because if we were, then the person would be saved. Also, if water baptism is necessary for salvation, then all babies who die go to hell since they weren't baptized in water. Remember, when someone says that water baptism is necessary, there can be no exceptions -- otherwise it isn't necessary.

this is a joke ...you are supporting a doctrine which you do not know......against the scripture which you do not know...
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

 

[notuptome]

we are saved by grace through faith....water baptism is an act of faith. Ask a question pertaining to sound doctrine ,don't try to box me in with that silly half truth.

You cannot accept salvation by grace through faith without adding water baptism. The gospel does not add water baptism but declares that God saves by grace and that grace is received through faith.

It is wholly untrue to make water baptism necessary to be saved. I could care less if you feel boxed in or not but you must face the fact that you frustrate grace by adding anything to it. To make water baptism necessary to be saved you declare Gods grace to be insufficient to save. Not a good recipe if you study Gods word and seek sound doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger