In context: Romans 4:4-5
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Amy works in addition to faith that stand between us and heaven is not of grace but of debt and gives merit to us. Christ gets 100% merit for our salvation. We are saved by grace through faith, not by grace through works. Either we are trusting 100% in Christ for salvation or else we are 100% lost. 95% Christ, 5 % works, lost.
Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. His obedience which followed is WORKS. James calls his obedience WORKS in James 2:21, but his works proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous, not accounted as righteous. Abraham's faith was accounted to him for righteousness in Genesis 15:6 many years before his work of offering up Isaac in Genesis 22.
Is eternal life/salvation a gift that we receive through faith (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8) or a reward that we work for and earn?
Any works in addition to faith that stand between us and heaven would be works of merit in which salvation is earned, at least in part. Is Christ's finished work of redemption sufficient and complete to save us or must we add supplements to help Him save us?
Romans 4:4 - Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. In other words, Now the account of someone who is working is credited not on the ground of grace but on the ground of what is owed him.
You are making a distinction without a difference. Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness. In other words, in the case of one who is not working but rather is trusting in him who makes ungodly people righteous, his trust is credited to him as righteousness.
So where does Paul say that we are saved by grace through faith "plus works of obedience?" That is salvation by WORKS! You are trying to "add works" to believing in Him in order to help Jesus save you in part. That is not believing in Him but is believing in your works! Saving faith trusts exclusively in Jesus for salvation and not in works in part.
You still need to learn that faith in Christ is belief, trust, reliance in Christ for salvation and obedience which follows saving faith in Christ is WORKS.
What works did Paul add to "believes on Him" in Romans 4:5? Believes on Him is the only requirement in Romans 4:5. Paul did not say believes on Him "plus something else" and his faith "plus something else" is accounted for righteousness. Don't confuse "believes on Him" (apart from additions or modifications) in Romans 4:5 with what James calls "faith only" which is an empty profession of faith "claims to have faith" - James 2:14 which is not the same as believes on Him. The point that James is making about the lack of works is that works demonstrate that our faith is alive and not dead, not that we are saved by works.
Yes man must choose to believe and will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18).
Obey the Son does not mean do extra works of obedience in addition to believing on Him in order receive eternal life, but obey the Son by choosing to believe on Him. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes "and" obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To believe on the Son is to obey Him and to disbelieve on the Son is to disobey Him. The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The Greek word translated as believeth not in that verse is apeitheo and it means: not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of John 3:36, to not obey the Son means to reject His message, which means you have chosen to not believe on Him. The Greek word translated believe in Acts 16:31 and elsewhere is from the greek word pisteuō which means "to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ).
In Romans 10:16, we read - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" We can clearly see that we OBEY the gospel by choosing to BELIEVE the gospel (Romans 1:16). Refusing to OBEY the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8) is refusing to BELIEVE the gospel (Romans 10:16). Not to be confused with acts of obedience which follow believing the gospel. Disobedience is a manifestation of unbelief.
Doing what the Lord says after we have been saved through faith is a manifestation of our belief and not doing what He says is a manifestation of our unbelief. You error by saying believing "is" multiple acts of obedience, believing "is" works. NO! Believing is trusting in Christ for salvation, acts of obedience which follow are WORKS. Faith is the root and works of obedience which follow are the fruit of salvation. You just can't make that distinction. There is a reason for that.
Repentance is a change of mind that precedes believing in Him for salvation, which is the new direction of this change of mind. Repentance and believing in Him are two sides to the same coin and are inseparable. So we are not saved by some additional repentance after faith that is a work of merit. Believe with our heart and confess with out mouth "together" are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together (Romans 10:8-10). We don't believe today then finally confess next week and are finally saved next week. So we are not saved by some additional confession after we believed a week ago. We believe unto righteousness and confession is made unto salvation BEFORE baptism. Salvation is signified, but not procured in baptism. Sorry to burst your bubble. I know this 4 step Campbellite plan of salvation is very appealing to you. You are self righteously looking for some type of credit and refuse to trust exclusively in Christ for salvation. It's called PRIDE.
Believing is not baptism and believing precedes baptism. Your argument is flawed. You try to "shoe horn" baptism into believes in order to accommodate your theology, but the shoe does not fit. Let's see how your shoe fits in Acts 4:4, why does it read: "However, many of those who heard the word BELIEVED; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand." No mention of baptism. Acts 5:14 reads: "And BELIEVERS were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women," No mention of baptism. If baptism is included in believing, then why did these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 who already believed, received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues still need to get baptized in order to believe? In Acts 11:17, they received the Holy Spirit when they BELIEVED ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST and this was established BEFORE baptism. Acts 16:31 says to BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND YOU WILL BE SAVED, not believe and get water baptized and you will be saved.
Choosing to believe is an act of obedience, yet acts of obedience which follow are WORKS and are a manifestation of our belief. The problem with your argument is you make no distinction between belief and acts of obedience/works which follow. In your theology, faith "is" baptism, faith "is" acts of obedience, faith "is" works. Wrong! Roman Catholics and Mormons make the same error. I made the same error too "prior to my conversion" but the blinders have been removed (2 Corinthians 4:3,4).
You just changed "believes on Him" who justifies the ungodly to "obeys Him through works" who justifies the ungodly. You changed saved through faith, not works, to saved through faith and works. You are still in UNBELIEF!
Paul is contrasting believing on Him with works in general. So how many works of obedience must you accomplish and add as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him save you? That is not belief in Him or obedience.
The worker of merit is also trying to add his works to the finished work of Christ looking to merit his salvation, at least in part.
The non-worker who "does not work for salvation" but "believes on Him who justifies the ungodly" in order to receive salvation, (not to be confused with "faith only" per James, which is an empty profession of faith) his faith is "accounted for righteousness." He is the one that is obedient to God. Without faith it's impossible to please God, so the worker who is trying to earn his salvation based on his performance is disobedient to God, the law breaker. No imputed righteousness for him, so his sin remains.
Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. His obedience which followed is WORKS. James calls his obedience WORKS in James 2:21, but his works proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works, "shown to be righteous, not accounted as righteous. Abraham's faith was accounted to him for righteousness in Genesis 15:6 many years before his work of offering up Isaac in Genesis 22.
Is eternal life/salvation a gift that we receive through faith (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8) or a reward that we work for and earn?
Any works in addition to faith that stand between us and heaven would be works of merit in which salvation is earned, at least in part. Is Christ's finished work of redemption sufficient and complete to save us or must we add supplements to help Him save us?
Romans 4:4 - Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. In other words, Now the account of someone who is working is credited not on the ground of grace but on the ground of what is owed him.
You are making a distinction without a difference. Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness. In other words, in the case of one who is not working but rather is trusting in him who makes ungodly people righteous, his trust is credited to him as righteousness.
So where does Paul say that we are saved by grace through faith "plus works of obedience?" That is salvation by WORKS! You are trying to "add works" to believing in Him in order to help Jesus save you in part. That is not believing in Him but is believing in your works! Saving faith trusts exclusively in Jesus for salvation and not in works in part.
You still need to learn that faith in Christ is belief, trust, reliance in Christ for salvation and obedience which follows saving faith in Christ is WORKS.
What works did Paul add to "believes on Him" in Romans 4:5? Believes on Him is the only requirement in Romans 4:5. Paul did not say believes on Him "plus something else" and his faith "plus something else" is accounted for righteousness. Don't confuse "believes on Him" (apart from additions or modifications) in Romans 4:5 with what James calls "faith only" which is an empty profession of faith "claims to have faith" - James 2:14 which is not the same as believes on Him. The point that James is making about the lack of works is that works demonstrate that our faith is alive and not dead, not that we are saved by works.
Yes man must choose to believe and will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18).
Obey the Son does not mean do extra works of obedience in addition to believing on Him in order receive eternal life, but obey the Son by choosing to believe on Him. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes "and" obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To believe on the Son is to obey Him and to disbelieve on the Son is to disobey Him. The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The Greek word translated as believeth not in that verse is apeitheo and it means: not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of John 3:36, to not obey the Son means to reject His message, which means you have chosen to not believe on Him. The Greek word translated believe in Acts 16:31 and elsewhere is from the greek word pisteuō which means "to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ).
In Romans 10:16, we read - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" We can clearly see that we OBEY the gospel by choosing to BELIEVE the gospel (Romans 1:16). Refusing to OBEY the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8) is refusing to BELIEVE the gospel (Romans 10:16). Not to be confused with acts of obedience which follow believing the gospel. Disobedience is a manifestation of unbelief.
Doing what the Lord says after we have been saved through faith is a manifestation of our belief and not doing what He says is a manifestation of our unbelief. You error by saying believing "is" multiple acts of obedience, believing "is" works. NO! Believing is trusting in Christ for salvation, acts of obedience which follow are WORKS. Faith is the root and works of obedience which follow are the fruit of salvation. You just can't make that distinction. There is a reason for that.
Repentance is a change of mind that precedes believing in Him for salvation, which is the new direction of this change of mind. Repentance and believing in Him are two sides to the same coin and are inseparable. So we are not saved by some additional repentance after faith that is a work of merit. Believe with our heart and confess with out mouth "together" are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together (Romans 10:8-10). We don't believe today then finally confess next week and are finally saved next week. So we are not saved by some additional confession after we believed a week ago. We believe unto righteousness and confession is made unto salvation BEFORE baptism. Salvation is signified, but not procured in baptism. Sorry to burst your bubble. I know this 4 step Campbellite plan of salvation is very appealing to you. You are self righteously looking for some type of credit and refuse to trust exclusively in Christ for salvation. It's called PRIDE.
Believing is not baptism and believing precedes baptism. Your argument is flawed. You try to "shoe horn" baptism into believes in order to accommodate your theology, but the shoe does not fit. Let's see how your shoe fits in Acts 4:4, why does it read: "However, many of those who heard the word BELIEVED; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand." No mention of baptism. Acts 5:14 reads: "And BELIEVERS were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women," No mention of baptism. If baptism is included in believing, then why did these Gentiles in Acts 10:43-47 who already believed, received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues still need to get baptized in order to believe? In Acts 11:17, they received the Holy Spirit when they BELIEVED ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST and this was established BEFORE baptism. Acts 16:31 says to BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND YOU WILL BE SAVED, not believe and get water baptized and you will be saved.
Choosing to believe is an act of obedience, yet acts of obedience which follow are WORKS and are a manifestation of our belief. The problem with your argument is you make no distinction between belief and acts of obedience/works which follow. In your theology, faith "is" baptism, faith "is" acts of obedience, faith "is" works. Wrong! Roman Catholics and Mormons make the same error. I made the same error too "prior to my conversion" but the blinders have been removed (2 Corinthians 4:3,4).
You just changed "believes on Him" who justifies the ungodly to "obeys Him through works" who justifies the ungodly. You changed saved through faith, not works, to saved through faith and works. You are still in UNBELIEF!
Paul is contrasting believing on Him with works in general. So how many works of obedience must you accomplish and add as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him save you? That is not belief in Him or obedience.
The worker of merit is also trying to add his works to the finished work of Christ looking to merit his salvation, at least in part.
The non-worker who "does not work for salvation" but "believes on Him who justifies the ungodly" in order to receive salvation, (not to be confused with "faith only" per James, which is an empty profession of faith) his faith is "accounted for righteousness." He is the one that is obedient to God. Without faith it's impossible to please God, so the worker who is trying to earn his salvation based on his performance is disobedient to God, the law breaker. No imputed righteousness for him, so his sin remains.
And Paul is not talking about "any works" in Rom 4:4.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
--Do evil, wicked unrighteous works make ones reward not reckoned of grace but of debt? No. Those that do these works are lost.
--Do obedient works in obeying God's will make one's reward not of grace but of debt? No. There was Noah, Moses, Abraham, David that were obedient to God, but they all sinned. Their sinning rules out thier rewad being of debt so thier reward must be of grace.
--But if one could keep God's law flawlessly, perfectly then he would be sinless. A sinless person does not need grace, so his reward must then be of debt, owed to him. Sin creates a gap between God and man so those that sin need grace to cover that gap. A sinless manhas no gap between himself and God therefore would need no grace. So his works of merit would earn him his reward.
So the "worketh" in Rom 4:4 refers to works of merit one does in trying to keep God's law flawlessly in order to earn salvation/make it a debt owed. It is not possible that "worketh" cannot include obedience to God for the obedient man does sin making him in need of grace.
So you whole argument is flawed from the very beginning in trying to make "worketh" of Rom 4:4 include "any works" when that is not possible.
So in Rom 4:5 when Paul says "worketh not", he is talking about works of merit the worker of verse 4 is doing is trying to make his reward not of grace but of debt. And Paul is contrasting this worker of merit against obedience/believing. Believing is obedience, Jn 3:36; Acts 14:1,2.
So those that follow the man made teaching of 'faith only' will continue to be in error on Rom 4:4,5 for they will not concede the truth that Paul is talking about works of merit and not all works.
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Paul is talking about "any works" that we accomplish and add to grace through faith in an attempt to merit eternal life. Since you make no distinction between faith and works, this is very confusing for you. It was confusing for me as well prior to my conversion to Christ.
Without faith it's impossible to please God, so without faith, you're lost regardless of what works you do. Works done in an effort to merit eternal life are tainted with sin and such people are seen in God's eyes as workers of iniquity (Matthew 7:22-23). People who want nothing to do with God and deliberately do wicked unrighteous works are not trying to merit eternal life.
Yes it does. Believers obey God's will for their lives after they have been saved through faith, not to become saved by works (Ephesians 2:8-10).
What is God's will for us to become saved? John 6:40 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Don't confuse God's will for us to become saved with God's will for us AFTER we have been saved through believing in Him/faith. Paul said, "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness. Paul did not say works are accounted for righteousness. Obedience which follows faith, is the fruit, by product, and demonstrative evidence of our faith and is works. You continue to confuse the root of salvation (faith) with the fruit of salvation (works). Make no mistake. Works salvation is no salvation at all.
Grace through faith. Romans 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
Salvation would be earned by such a person, but there is no such person, except for Jesus. That's why we need His imputed righteousness by grace through faith (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1-2; Philippians 3:9)
Yet you have an unholy mixture of law and grace "faith + works" but you have neither law nor grace. The cross covers the gap between God and man. Not the cross + works.
Even if it's works in part, you are still trying to earn salvation "at least in part" by certain works. That still falls under "worketh" in Romans 4:4. It's not by works, not by works of righteousness which we have done, not according to our works. Period. It's by grace through faith. Faith is faith and works are works. Our faith must be trusting 100% in Christ for salvation. If we are trusting in Christ "plus something else," (works) then it's not 100% Christ and we are 100% lost.
Imperfect obedience to God is not grace through faith and "worketh" certainly includes any works that we add to grace through faith. You are trying to be saved through certain works which is not grace through faith. Imperfect obedience is not grace through faith.
It's actually your whole argument that is flawed from the very beginning in trying to separate good works from the moral aspect of the law and making no distinction between faith and works of obedience which follow. What a mess!
Any works that we add to salvation by grace through faith is what Paul is talking about. Adding even just a few works to saved by grace through faith amounts to works of merit the worker is trying to make salvation not of grace, but still of debt in part. Whether in part or completely, it is still not grace through faith.
Choosing to believe the gospel is an act of obedience (Romans 10:16) and obedience/works which follow are still works and are a manifestation of our belief, but believing is not simply defined as obedient works. Believing is believing and works are works. According to your flawed logic, faith "is" multiple acts of obedience, faith "is" works. As I already explained to you:
Obey the Son in John 3:36 (NAS) does not mean do extra works of obedience in addition to believing on Him in order receive eternal life, but obey the Son by choosing to believe on Him. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes "and" obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To believe on the Son is to obey Him and to disbelieve on the Son is to disobey Him. The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The Greek word translated as believeth not in that verse is apeitheo and it means: not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of John 3:36, to not obey the Son means to reject His message, which means you have chosen to not believe on Him. The Greek word translated believe in Acts 16:31 and elsewhere is from the greek word pisteuō which means "to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ).
Who is following "faith only" per James 2:24, which is an empty profession of faith, a dead faith (James 2:14-20), not genuine faith that is alive in Christ and produces good works (Ephesians 2:5-10). Your misunderstanding here of what James means by "faith only" continues to trip you up. It trips up Roman Catholics and Mormons as well. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by works (James 2:14-24). That is the balance that you have out of balance.
When you hear a genuine believer say that we are saved through "faith IN CHRIST alone," they are not saying that we are saved by the "kind" of faith that is alone in the sense that it remains barren of works (James 2:17). Saving faith results in good works, so it's not alone in that sense but it's the faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ for salvation part of the equation that "alone" saves you as the instrumental means. Good works are the fruit, by-product and demonstrative evidence of our faith, but works are not the means of our salvation. The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith in "Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith IN CHRIST alone (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). It's not hard to understand, just hard for you to ACCEPT. Are you ready to REPENT and BELIEVE the GOSPEL?
Without faith it's impossible to please God, so without faith, you're lost regardless of what works you do. Works done in an effort to merit eternal life are tainted with sin and such people are seen in God's eyes as workers of iniquity (Matthew 7:22-23). People who want nothing to do with God and deliberately do wicked unrighteous works are not trying to merit eternal life.
Yes it does. Believers obey God's will for their lives after they have been saved through faith, not to become saved by works (Ephesians 2:8-10).
What is God's will for us to become saved? John 6:40 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Don't confuse God's will for us to become saved with God's will for us AFTER we have been saved through believing in Him/faith. Paul said, "But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness. Paul did not say works are accounted for righteousness. Obedience which follows faith, is the fruit, by product, and demonstrative evidence of our faith and is works. You continue to confuse the root of salvation (faith) with the fruit of salvation (works). Make no mistake. Works salvation is no salvation at all.
Grace through faith. Romans 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
Salvation would be earned by such a person, but there is no such person, except for Jesus. That's why we need His imputed righteousness by grace through faith (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1-2; Philippians 3:9)
Yet you have an unholy mixture of law and grace "faith + works" but you have neither law nor grace. The cross covers the gap between God and man. Not the cross + works.
Even if it's works in part, you are still trying to earn salvation "at least in part" by certain works. That still falls under "worketh" in Romans 4:4. It's not by works, not by works of righteousness which we have done, not according to our works. Period. It's by grace through faith. Faith is faith and works are works. Our faith must be trusting 100% in Christ for salvation. If we are trusting in Christ "plus something else," (works) then it's not 100% Christ and we are 100% lost.
Imperfect obedience to God is not grace through faith and "worketh" certainly includes any works that we add to grace through faith. You are trying to be saved through certain works which is not grace through faith. Imperfect obedience is not grace through faith.
It's actually your whole argument that is flawed from the very beginning in trying to separate good works from the moral aspect of the law and making no distinction between faith and works of obedience which follow. What a mess!
Any works that we add to salvation by grace through faith is what Paul is talking about. Adding even just a few works to saved by grace through faith amounts to works of merit the worker is trying to make salvation not of grace, but still of debt in part. Whether in part or completely, it is still not grace through faith.
Choosing to believe the gospel is an act of obedience (Romans 10:16) and obedience/works which follow are still works and are a manifestation of our belief, but believing is not simply defined as obedient works. Believing is believing and works are works. According to your flawed logic, faith "is" multiple acts of obedience, faith "is" works. As I already explained to you:
Obey the Son in John 3:36 (NAS) does not mean do extra works of obedience in addition to believing on Him in order receive eternal life, but obey the Son by choosing to believe on Him. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes "and" obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To believe on the Son is to obey Him and to disbelieve on the Son is to disobey Him. The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The Greek word translated as believeth not in that verse is apeitheo and it means: not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of John 3:36, to not obey the Son means to reject His message, which means you have chosen to not believe on Him. The Greek word translated believe in Acts 16:31 and elsewhere is from the greek word pisteuō which means "to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ).
Who is following "faith only" per James 2:24, which is an empty profession of faith, a dead faith (James 2:14-20), not genuine faith that is alive in Christ and produces good works (Ephesians 2:5-10). Your misunderstanding here of what James means by "faith only" continues to trip you up. It trips up Roman Catholics and Mormons as well. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9) yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by works (James 2:14-24). That is the balance that you have out of balance.
When you hear a genuine believer say that we are saved through "faith IN CHRIST alone," they are not saying that we are saved by the "kind" of faith that is alone in the sense that it remains barren of works (James 2:17). Saving faith results in good works, so it's not alone in that sense but it's the faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ for salvation part of the equation that "alone" saves you as the instrumental means. Good works are the fruit, by-product and demonstrative evidence of our faith, but works are not the means of our salvation. The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith in "Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith IN CHRIST alone (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). It's not hard to understand, just hard for you to ACCEPT. Are you ready to REPENT and BELIEVE the GOSPEL?
You whole posts is based on the false notion Paul is talking about "any works" in Rom 4:4.
Can evil works make ones' reward of grace and not of debt? No, so your argument dies here that Paul was talking about "any works".
God commanded Noah to build an ark and the Hebrew writer says "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."
So was Noah trying to earn his salvation by his obedience in preparing an ark? No
Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Abraham trying to earn his salvation by this obedient work? No
Heb 11:32,33 "And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; ofDavid also, and Samuel, and of the prophets. Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions."
Were all of these trying to earn salvation when they "wrought righteousness"? No
So obedient works in doing Gods will cannot make ones' reward not of grace but of debt. Would they be saved by disobeying God/doing unrighteousness? No.
Since believing is obedience, Jn 3:36 then Paul is CONTRASTING works of merit to obedience to God in Rom 4:4,5.
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According to you "any work" means one is trying to earn salvation. Yet if one does not work to obey God he will be lost. So what is a man to do?
The only question now is; are you willing to ague that when God gave a man a command and that man obeyed that command of God, was that man was trying to earn salvation?
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Your posts are based on the false notion that Paul limits works to only "specific" works and that salvation is through faith "and works," just not "certain" works. I understand how you try to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith, just like Roman Catholics and Mormons do as well. Roman Catholics call it saved through faith "infused" with works and Restorationists call it saved through faith "conjoined" with works. Either way, works become meritorious for salvation. Human PRIDE will not allow people to let go of their works and take hold of Christ through faith.
My argument is very much alive. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. (Titus 3:5). Are works of righteousness evil works or good works? Do evil works that unbelievers produce merit for them eternal life? NO. Do good works that believers produce merit for them eternal life? NO. ANY WORKS. Saved through faith, NOT WORKS. Paul did not say saved through faith and works, so put down your shoe horn and believe God's Word.
Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it. Noah did not earn his salvation by building the ark. Building the ark demonstrated and proved his faith and saved him and his family (physically) from drowning. It's interesting how in a different thread you avoided Hebrews 11:7 when discussing 1 Peter 3:21 to see what literally saved Noah and his family (the ark or the water), but now you mention it in an effort to support salvation by works.
His obedient work here was not the basis of his salvation. Read Genesis 15:5 - Then He (God) brought him (Abrahamm) outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."And he believed the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness."
No, and these works/acts of righteousness (NKJV; NAS) were not the means of their salvation either. There is a difference between being saved through faith and performing works/acts of righteousness by or out of faith. In Hebrews 11, notice in all of these occurences that it was "BY" faith, NOT faith "is" in essence all of these things. Their faith was genuine and it was proved by their actions (works). So all of these things in Hebrews 11 were done BY or out of faith, but none of these things are the essence of faith, only the evidence (fruit) of faith. That is absolutely critical to understand!
Obedient works doing/righteousness is a manifestation of faith and disobeying God/doing unrighteousness is a manifestation of unbelief.
John 6:40 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Obedient works which follow believing in Him and receiving eternal life would be of debt and not grace if they were the means of our salvation. This would mean that we are saved through faith in Christ "plus our works" which means that Christ's finished work of redemption is insufficient to save us and we must add our works to the cross in order to help Him save us. God forbid!!!
No, faith is believing and obedience which follows is WORKS. I could not grasp this truth either prior to my conversion and the blinders being removed. Attempting to be saved by obedience/works which follow faith in Christ would be works of merit if these works were the means of our salvation. You continue to confuse obey by believing (John 3:36; Romans 10:16) with multiple acts of obedience/works which follow. Paul is CONTRASTING believing in Him with works in general (Romans 4:4-6). Show me where Paul says that we are "saved by works?"
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Any work that we accomplish in an attempt to add to what Christ accomplished in order to help Him save us is trying to earn salvation, even if it's just in part. Salvation by works is not obeying God. Genuine believers obey God by practicing righteousness and not sin, yet this is not sinless perfect obedience. Unbelievers do not obey God because without faith it's impossible to please God, no matter how much so called obedience that one attempts to conjure up through the flesh (Matthew 7:22-23).
There is a difference between obeying the command of God to believe in Christ in order to receive eternal life (John 6:40; Acts 16:31) and obeying a command of God after we have been saved through believing in Him. There is a HUGE difference between what we are saved BY and what we are saved FOR (Ephesians 2:8-10).
Any works that we try and add to salvation through faith is trying to help earn salvation. If a person is not trusting exclusively in Christ to save them, then they don't truly believe in Him, but are believing in whatever works they are doing that they believe will be the basis by which they receive eternal life. Human PRIDE keeps people from coming to faith in Christ.
Someone who attends the church of Christ once told me - "It is works of obedience that help to save us, not works of the law or works of merit." Do you agree with that? If these works help save us, then there is merit in these works. You can't have it both ways. Are you beginning to understand yet?
My argument is very much alive. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. (Titus 3:5). Are works of righteousness evil works or good works? Do evil works that unbelievers produce merit for them eternal life? NO. Do good works that believers produce merit for them eternal life? NO. ANY WORKS. Saved through faith, NOT WORKS. Paul did not say saved through faith and works, so put down your shoe horn and believe God's Word.
Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it. Noah did not earn his salvation by building the ark. Building the ark demonstrated and proved his faith and saved him and his family (physically) from drowning. It's interesting how in a different thread you avoided Hebrews 11:7 when discussing 1 Peter 3:21 to see what literally saved Noah and his family (the ark or the water), but now you mention it in an effort to support salvation by works.
His obedient work here was not the basis of his salvation. Read Genesis 15:5 - Then He (God) brought him (Abrahamm) outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."And he believed the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness."
No, and these works/acts of righteousness (NKJV; NAS) were not the means of their salvation either. There is a difference between being saved through faith and performing works/acts of righteousness by or out of faith. In Hebrews 11, notice in all of these occurences that it was "BY" faith, NOT faith "is" in essence all of these things. Their faith was genuine and it was proved by their actions (works). So all of these things in Hebrews 11 were done BY or out of faith, but none of these things are the essence of faith, only the evidence (fruit) of faith. That is absolutely critical to understand!
Obedient works doing/righteousness is a manifestation of faith and disobeying God/doing unrighteousness is a manifestation of unbelief.
John 6:40 - And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day. Obedient works which follow believing in Him and receiving eternal life would be of debt and not grace if they were the means of our salvation. This would mean that we are saved through faith in Christ "plus our works" which means that Christ's finished work of redemption is insufficient to save us and we must add our works to the cross in order to help Him save us. God forbid!!!
No, faith is believing and obedience which follows is WORKS. I could not grasp this truth either prior to my conversion and the blinders being removed. Attempting to be saved by obedience/works which follow faith in Christ would be works of merit if these works were the means of our salvation. You continue to confuse obey by believing (John 3:36; Romans 10:16) with multiple acts of obedience/works which follow. Paul is CONTRASTING believing in Him with works in general (Romans 4:4-6). Show me where Paul says that we are "saved by works?"
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Any work that we accomplish in an attempt to add to what Christ accomplished in order to help Him save us is trying to earn salvation, even if it's just in part. Salvation by works is not obeying God. Genuine believers obey God by practicing righteousness and not sin, yet this is not sinless perfect obedience. Unbelievers do not obey God because without faith it's impossible to please God, no matter how much so called obedience that one attempts to conjure up through the flesh (Matthew 7:22-23).
There is a difference between obeying the command of God to believe in Christ in order to receive eternal life (John 6:40; Acts 16:31) and obeying a command of God after we have been saved through believing in Him. There is a HUGE difference between what we are saved BY and what we are saved FOR (Ephesians 2:8-10).
Any works that we try and add to salvation through faith is trying to help earn salvation. If a person is not trusting exclusively in Christ to save them, then they don't truly believe in Him, but are believing in whatever works they are doing that they believe will be the basis by which they receive eternal life. Human PRIDE keeps people from coming to faith in Christ.
Someone who attends the church of Christ once told me - "It is works of obedience that help to save us, not works of the law or works of merit." Do you agree with that? If these works help save us, then there is merit in these works. You can't have it both ways. Are you beginning to understand yet?
A
This is a terribly weak argument. To somehow say that if we obey a simple command of Christ's then we are not trusting him is ridiculous. For one thing, that says that one can know the heart of another and know his motives for doing a good work. I choose to believe the parable of the talents ( that many like to avoid), Matt. 16:27; Rev. 20:12; Eph. 2:10 and others on the subject.
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So you don't believe that Christ gets 100% credit for our salvation or that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption and not on the merits of our works? If we are attempting to obey a command of Christ in order to become saved that is intended for believers who are already saved, then are we obeying Christ? NO. Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks and shows our motives about what we believe we must do to be saved.
Matthew 16:27 says "reward" each according to his works, not save each according to his works. Also see 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, notice work endures, receive a reward, works burned, suffer loss of reward, but he shall be saved. In Revelation 20:12, judged according to our works to determine what? Rewards and loss of rewards for believers and degree of punishment in hell for unbelievers - See Matthew 23:14 - greater condemnation. Ephesians 2:10 says created in Christ Jesus UNTO/FOR good works, right after verses 8 and 9 clearly say SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, NOT WORKS.
Matthew 16:27 says "reward" each according to his works, not save each according to his works. Also see 1 Corinthians 3:13-15, notice work endures, receive a reward, works burned, suffer loss of reward, but he shall be saved. In Revelation 20:12, judged according to our works to determine what? Rewards and loss of rewards for believers and degree of punishment in hell for unbelievers - See Matthew 23:14 - greater condemnation. Ephesians 2:10 says created in Christ Jesus UNTO/FOR good works, right after verses 8 and 9 clearly say SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, NOT WORKS.
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you know my answer to your first sentence, so I don't know why you asked it. You seem not to want to grasp the idea that I believe that no matter how many works we do, we can never earn even a small part of our salvation. You sarcastically referred to the Campbellite four step plan, well actually, it's a five step plan, but it has nothing to do with Alexander Campbell. The last one be thou faithful unto death and I will give thee the crown of life. This is not about rewards, it is about saving your soul.
EPh 2:10, does not say faith alone., We are not saved by anything alone.
EPh 2:10, does not say faith alone., We are not saved by anything alone.
H
To mailmandan, You are really arguing for doing evil works so we know we are only trusting in Jesus alone for salvation? But in your last paragraph, you make more sense, saying faith is never alone ,it always produces good works. You are making a simple but confusing teaching, totally ridiculous. The relationship between grace and law, (true faith and good works) is very simple. No one can be saved if they lack either one. SO, we must see God's relation of each, how does God relate grace and law? What is ABSOLUTELY clear in the WHOLE Bible is, an ungodly, unholy person is LOST.! If you don't agree on this, I would never allow you to teach in my church. I would never allow you to teach your twisted ungodly heresy in my congregation. IF, you would TALK more like the Bible reads, you could get salvation God's way.! You are careless in your use of words. Where does the Bible say, we are SAVED by FAITH alone? OR SAVED by WORKS alone? NO WHERE! WE are saved by Grace through faith and works. "faith that works by love" "work of faith" "labor of love" "take heed to yourself and your doctrine,...you will save yourself and them that hear you" "God is not unjust to forget your work and labor of love..." "depart from me you workers of inquiry" " if only the righteous are saved, where shall the ungodly be?" "God judges by our works.. God is impartial" "by works they deny God" I don't THINK I need to say More. salvation is not be "faith only" Love to all Hoffco
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In context Romans 4:4-5 is talking of only half of Salvation , Justification. 4:6 Paul is talking of IMPUTED righteousness, Justification is forgiveness IMPUTED to our account in Heaven. In CONTEXT, Paul has already talked of Righteousness imparted with the "calling" of GRACE ,POWER and LOVE, in chs.1&2. This is the part of salvation called Sanctification, making us hole in nature. Salvation has two parts SANCT. and JUSTI.. New birth in our heart and the new record in heaven. Love to all, Hoffco
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Dan's not arguing for evil works. 
He's saying what the reformers said...
sola scriptura--only the Bible (properly interpreted) is the authoritative source of Truth.
sola gratia--only grace. nothing merited by the sinner. salvation is an unearned gift for Jesus' sake.
sola fide--only faith is necessary for salvation (and it's the gift of God)
solo Christo--we are saved by the Work of the Lord Jesus alone
soli Deo gloria--for God's glory alone
listen to Titus 3:5
He saved us-- not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy -- through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
we are not sin proponents. good works are the fruit of salvation, never the cause of it.
He's saying what the reformers said...
sola scriptura--only the Bible (properly interpreted) is the authoritative source of Truth.
sola gratia--only grace. nothing merited by the sinner. salvation is an unearned gift for Jesus' sake.
sola fide--only faith is necessary for salvation (and it's the gift of God)
solo Christo--we are saved by the Work of the Lord Jesus alone
soli Deo gloria--for God's glory alone
listen to Titus 3:5
He saved us-- not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy -- through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
we are not sin proponents. good works are the fruit of salvation, never the cause of it.
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Yet you still believe that works in addition to faith are the basis by which we receive eternal life so whether you see these works as earning salvation or not, there is still merit on our part for doing these works if they stand between us and heaven. You can't have it both ways. Either Christ did it all or else we did some of it. Good works are the fruit of salvation but never the root of it.
Depending on who you ask in the church of Christ, they may cite anywhere from 4-6 steps. SeaBass continues to cite only 4 steps yet you say 5 steps by adding "be faithful unto death." Others may also add "hear the word" before believe making it 6 steps. In regards to Revelation 2:10, do you believe that this verse teaches that we must be "faithful enough" in addition to having faith in Christ for salvation? If so, then just how faithful would you have to be? That is vague and could include any number of good works. This verse is meant to be an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. The Lord was telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there.
The very next verse says, "He who OVERCOMES shall not be hurt by the second death." *1 John 5:4 - For whatever is born of God OVERCOMES the world. And this is the victory that OVERCOMES the world---OUR FAITH. We are clearly saved through FAITH, not faith plus being faithful enough. Having faith to the end is being faithful. After leaving the church of Christ that I had temporarily attended many years ago, I ran into a woman who still attended there and she told me because I no longer attend the church of Christ, I failed to remain faithful unto death and won't be saved. Is that how you define be faithful unto death? Continue to attend your church?
Ephesians 2:8,9 says saved through faith, not works. Ephesians 2:10 says created in Christ Jesus unto good works. Faith that saves is not alone in the sense that it never produces good works, but this faith "trusts in Christ alone for salvation" and not in works. Faith in works is not faith in Christ. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save us. No supplements needed.
We are saved the moment that we place our faith "in Christ alone for salvation." When you hear a genuine believer say that we are saved by "faith IN CHRIST alone," they are not saying that we are saved by the "kind" of faith that "remains alone" in the sense that it is barren of works James 2:24, demonstrating to be a dead faith (James 2:14). Saving faith results in producing good works, so it's not alone in that sense but it's the faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ part of the equation that "alone" saves you as the instrumental means. Good works are the fruit, by product, and demonstrative evidence of our faith, but they are not the means of our salvation. The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith in "Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith IN CHRIST alone (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
Depending on who you ask in the church of Christ, they may cite anywhere from 4-6 steps. SeaBass continues to cite only 4 steps yet you say 5 steps by adding "be faithful unto death." Others may also add "hear the word" before believe making it 6 steps. In regards to Revelation 2:10, do you believe that this verse teaches that we must be "faithful enough" in addition to having faith in Christ for salvation? If so, then just how faithful would you have to be? That is vague and could include any number of good works. This verse is meant to be an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. The Lord was telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there.
The very next verse says, "He who OVERCOMES shall not be hurt by the second death." *1 John 5:4 - For whatever is born of God OVERCOMES the world. And this is the victory that OVERCOMES the world---OUR FAITH. We are clearly saved through FAITH, not faith plus being faithful enough. Having faith to the end is being faithful. After leaving the church of Christ that I had temporarily attended many years ago, I ran into a woman who still attended there and she told me because I no longer attend the church of Christ, I failed to remain faithful unto death and won't be saved. Is that how you define be faithful unto death? Continue to attend your church?
Ephesians 2:8,9 says saved through faith, not works. Ephesians 2:10 says created in Christ Jesus unto good works. Faith that saves is not alone in the sense that it never produces good works, but this faith "trusts in Christ alone for salvation" and not in works. Faith in works is not faith in Christ. Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save us. No supplements needed.
We are saved the moment that we place our faith "in Christ alone for salvation." When you hear a genuine believer say that we are saved by "faith IN CHRIST alone," they are not saying that we are saved by the "kind" of faith that "remains alone" in the sense that it is barren of works James 2:24, demonstrating to be a dead faith (James 2:14). Saving faith results in producing good works, so it's not alone in that sense but it's the faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ part of the equation that "alone" saves you as the instrumental means. Good works are the fruit, by product, and demonstrative evidence of our faith, but they are not the means of our salvation. The word "alone" in regards to salvation through faith in "Christ alone" conveys the message that Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not on the merits of our works. It is through faith IN CHRIST alone (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24-28; 5:1); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
Dan's not arguing for evil works.
He's saying what the reformers said...
sola scriptura--only the Bible (properly interpreted) is the authoritative source of Truth.
sola gratia--only grace. nothing merited by the sinner. salvation is an unearned gift for Jesus' sake.
sola fide--only faith is necessary for salvation (and it's the gift of God)
solo Christo--we are saved by the Work of the Lord Jesus alone
soli Deo gloria--for God's glory alone
listen to Titus 3:5
He saved us-- not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy -- through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
we are not sin proponents. good works are the fruit of salvation, never the cause of it.
He's saying what the reformers said...
sola scriptura--only the Bible (properly interpreted) is the authoritative source of Truth.
sola gratia--only grace. nothing merited by the sinner. salvation is an unearned gift for Jesus' sake.
sola fide--only faith is necessary for salvation (and it's the gift of God)
solo Christo--we are saved by the Work of the Lord Jesus alone
soli Deo gloria--for God's glory alone
listen to Titus 3:5
He saved us-- not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy -- through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
we are not sin proponents. good works are the fruit of salvation, never the cause of it.
The Bible clearly teaches in many many passages of scripture that we are saved through believing in Him/faith "apart from additions or modifications" (John 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 15:9; 16:31; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5-6; 10:4; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9 etc..). You don't need to add the word "alone" next to believing in Him/faith in each of these passages of scripture to figure out that the words believing in Him/faith "stand alone" in these many many passages in connection with receiving salvation. Do these passages of scripture say faith "plus something else?" Faith AND works? NO! So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST alone. The Bible NOWHERE says saved by works.
"and works?" Is that what Paul said in Ephesians 2:8,9? NO! He said saved through faith, NOT WORKS. You just rewrote Ephesians 2:8,9.
Why does our faith work by love? In order for us to become saved or because we are saved? We love Christ because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). We receive the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5) who was given to us when we BELIEVE the Gospel (Acts 11:17; Ephesians 1:13) and we then became new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). We don't just conjure up genuine agape love in our flesh apart from the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit. You are confusing what we are saved BY (grace through faith - Ephesians 2:8,9) with what we are saved FOR (good works - Ephesians 2:10).
We are not passive in perservering in our faith, but it's not in our own power that we perservere. God alone saves, but in a sense we save ourselves and others through perserverance in sound doctrine, as we continue to believe the gospel and are used as God's instruments to bring about the salvation of others through preaching the gospel to them as well. If you fell into a well with no way out and someone threw down and rope and pulled you out, in a sense you can say you saved yourself by choosing to grab and holding onto the rope until that person pulled you out, but ultimately, the person who pulled you out saved you.
Where does it say that God saves us based on our works? Does Christ only 50% save us and we 50% saved ourselves by our works? How many people will Jesus say "depart from me you workers of iniquity" to? MANY (Matthew 7:22-23) and what were these many trusting in to save them? THEIR WORKS. They were not genuine believers.
The righteous are saved and the ungodly will remain lost, if they fail to believe in Him who justifies the ungodly (Romans 4:5-6).
To determine what? Salvation or rewards? 1 Corinthians 3:13 - each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Good works glorify God (Matthew 5:16). What kind of works deny God? You said enough and it's clear. You teach salvation BY WORKS.
Not by what James refers to as "faith only" that is an empty profession of faith (James 2:14) which demonstrates by the lack of works that it's a dead faith. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works (James 2:14-24). That is the balance that you have out of balance. Saving faith is alive in Christ by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:5-8) then unto good works. The absence of evidence can be construed as evidence of absence.
"and works?" Is that what Paul said in Ephesians 2:8,9? NO! He said saved through faith, NOT WORKS. You just rewrote Ephesians 2:8,9.
Why does our faith work by love? In order for us to become saved or because we are saved? We love Christ because He first loved us (1 John 4:19). We receive the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit (Romans 5:5) who was given to us when we BELIEVE the Gospel (Acts 11:17; Ephesians 1:13) and we then became new creations in Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17). We don't just conjure up genuine agape love in our flesh apart from the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit. You are confusing what we are saved BY (grace through faith - Ephesians 2:8,9) with what we are saved FOR (good works - Ephesians 2:10).
We are not passive in perservering in our faith, but it's not in our own power that we perservere. God alone saves, but in a sense we save ourselves and others through perserverance in sound doctrine, as we continue to believe the gospel and are used as God's instruments to bring about the salvation of others through preaching the gospel to them as well. If you fell into a well with no way out and someone threw down and rope and pulled you out, in a sense you can say you saved yourself by choosing to grab and holding onto the rope until that person pulled you out, but ultimately, the person who pulled you out saved you.
Where does it say that God saves us based on our works? Does Christ only 50% save us and we 50% saved ourselves by our works? How many people will Jesus say "depart from me you workers of iniquity" to? MANY (Matthew 7:22-23) and what were these many trusting in to save them? THEIR WORKS. They were not genuine believers.
The righteous are saved and the ungodly will remain lost, if they fail to believe in Him who justifies the ungodly (Romans 4:5-6).
To determine what? Salvation or rewards? 1 Corinthians 3:13 - each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; (of reward) but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Good works glorify God (Matthew 5:16). What kind of works deny God? You said enough and it's clear. You teach salvation BY WORKS.
Not by what James refers to as "faith only" that is an empty profession of faith (James 2:14) which demonstrates by the lack of works that it's a dead faith. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated and confirmed by good works (James 2:14-24). That is the balance that you have out of balance. Saving faith is alive in Christ by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:5-8) then unto good works. The absence of evidence can be construed as evidence of absence.