The new covenant with Christ Jesus

[KSKJBBeliever]

If you think Paul was revealed the "Mystery" in the OT your nuts and have lost your mind... Explain him persecuting Jews/Christians in Acts before the Lord came to him and ended up blind? Read and study my friend... The "Mystery" didnt come about till the "Jewish Nation" rejected Christ as their Messiah.

 

[cfultz3]

i did, i really did...but, Chris, do you really think what our brother said there is what the Lord Jesus meant?

i don't mean to call you out publicly (because i love you and respect you)...just to ask the question.

didn't Jesus mean by "this temple", the temple of His body as opposed to the idea it's the old covenant?
that must have been pretty perplexing to those who heard Him.

but verse 22 goes on to say after Jesus rose from the dead they remembered what He had said
and believed the scripture and the words Jesus had spoken. (i find that and interesting )

just-me, please forgive me if i have misunderstood/misrepresented you?

Yes, I do believe Just-Me meant that.

When Jesus, our LORD, said, 'tear down this temple", He meant that physical temple, that old way of the physical. And when He said, 'and in three days I will rebuild', He meant the spiritual temple, the giving of the Spirit to indwell in believers, as He was fully indwelt with the Holy Spirit and thus, called Himself 'the temple' of God. And by which , we are also called the temple of God.

Just-Me was saying He got rid of the old fleshly way (old Covenant which states that we are to follow God physically) and have replaced it with the spiritual way (new Covenant which states that we are to follow God with our spirit).

In either of the Covenants, God's way (path of leading to Him) of being worshiped is the same and that is: these are my rules if you desire to worship me: Love, just as I described it in the older writings (the Law hangs upon love). God, still today, desires those who follow Him to be upright, to walk the path He has set, to do no harm (evil) and love does cover all of these things He has said is to be a part of worshiping Him in the proper manner.

What of the Old Covenant? God has not changed His will, just the method to fulfill it.

If I have not properly answered you, let me know and I will rephrase it...

Your Brother,

Chris

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Those are all things Christ revealed to him,

Was he not a Jew and yet,
he knew nothing of the Scriptures himself? A Jew of his sect not knowing Scripture?

Paul didn't "figure out from the OT" all that he wrote.
If he could have figured all of it out from the OT,
he never would not have been on the road to Damascus in the first place

Who said 'all'? But, he sure did connect the dots......

And what dots would Paul have connected to figure out, for example:

condemnation of all mankind in his day as unrighteous (Gal 3:22),
justification (Ro 3:28),
gift of righteousness from God (Ro 5:17),
faith in the blood of Jesus is atonement (Ro 3:25),
God's sovereign choice in rejecting Israel (Ro 9-11),
The olive tree, the one body of Christ, in whom abide branches of Israel and of Gentiles (Ro 11),
All who rely on observing the Law are under a curse (Gal 3:10),
The promises were spoken to Abraham and Christ only (Gal 3:16),
Believers in Christ are the seed of Abraham and hiers according to the promise
(Gal 3:29),
Believers are seated now in the heavenlies with Christ (Eph 2:6),
Believers are the body of Christ (Eph 1:22-23) because
Believers are the wife of Christ (Eph 5:31-32), in the
two-in-one enfleshment of the marital union (Eph 5:28-32),
Believers were chosen to be sanctified before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4),
Believers were predestined to be adopted as sons of God (Eph 1:5),
All things were created by Christ, in heaven, earth, visible, invisible, spiritual forces (Col 1:16),
All things are sustained by Christ (Col 1:17),
Etc., etc., etc.

You reveal your lack of understanding of the NT with your assertion.

If you think Paul had to be "convinced" by Jesus in order to believe,
"you err because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God." (Mt 22:29)

Hi Ellie...faith = persuasion = to agree to a believe . In our case here, to be convinced that Jesus is Lord and that conviction is what we call belief.

Don't saddle poor Ellie with Elin's posts.

 

[cfultz3]

Hi Ellie...faith = persuasion = to agree to a believe . In our case here, to be convinced that Jesus is Lord and that conviction is what we call belief.

Ellie (psychomom),

I am sure you understand the mishap was because of the closeness of the names. But, if you did not, I am sorry for the mistake.

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Just-me, this would be my advice to you:

Titus 3:
9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

However, there may be some who are not being actively engaged on this thread who are curious, and willing to try and understand, that what you are presenting may be true, so
I encourage you to continue presenting what The Bible clearly is stating.

Double minded. . .

I understand scripture in the context of its entirety, I don't base my understanding on certain scriptures. If what he is presenting may bare truth; I am not willingly going to reject it that easy, I don't want to be rejected by God.

Again, I state, you have not proven yours. . .clearly your behavior, comments, understanding and just overall your negativity is contradicting with scripture.

Assertion without demonstration is without merit.

 

[fredjames]

The key is to understand the spiritual concepts of the old through faith. As we know according to Jesus' words that nothing will be taken from the law and the prophets, (nothing) until all is complete, and heaven and earth will pass away. Jesus also said that man will live by every word that God has ever spoken. Therefore, to indicate that anything in the old has vanished is very big mistake. If we have this mindset, we can understand scripture as it was originally intended to be understood.

Proving the point, the Old covenant contains promises of a new covenant. Consider the wine skins that you mentioned. The new cannot promise something that is already done. So the wine of the new covenant cannot make the old as good as the new is, for if it could there would be no reason for the new. On the same token, the old can promise something that hasn't happened yet. So the wine of the old can be consumed for the sake of understanding that the new is better. It's just like the garment Jesus talks about. The new garment doesn't need to be patched, but why take new cloth, trying to make the old garment like new? Yet we can see the the old and new garment, and the old and new wineskins are containers of wine and body. So the covenant is the container of God's word. What's inside these containers is still relevant.

Yes, the Old is relevant given to Christian Jews or Gentiles, in order to know the imperfection of the flesh/carnal man and minister them to those who are in ignorance and about the promised coming liberator who has come and has accomplished them for all of us and now being born again, we thrust froward to practice the New.

This is our witnessing and our confession of spiritual knowledge faith to the world, while we are practicing the words of spirit and life of JESUS according to the New towards one another first and be fruitful.

What is written in the Old is a proof, a reflection and are still living references of the promise of GOD to Abraham trough one of his single 'offspring', which have come to pass through HIS MESSIAH. And that through the single 'offspring' for the future are Christian, of the New Testament for CHRIST now representing the Kingdom of GOD and not anymore man as according to the Old. JESUS upon accomplishing the bitter Old, therefore gives way to GOD's already established New Covenant that rules the New generation forever, that HE has made with those who have been resurrected with CHRIST, that manages and leads this generation to eternal life.

If this New generation neglect this New Covenant management written in 'The Book', and govern HIS people future Kingdom order, then there will be confusion and division, like it has happened in the Old and history has repeated itself.

So let us all wake up from our sleep and grow spiritually by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT and bring out the New and Old treasure of the Kingdom of GOD correctly.

In the New Testament we witness the Apostles have performed them correctly, in highlighting the New and Old treasure, from the Gospel of Matthew to the book of Revelation, for us to witness ourselves as one sound doctrine and imitate them.

Thus says the LORD;

"Ever learning but never come into the knowledge of truth."

Why are we wasting the LORD's time and keep on wrestling like children the HOLY BILE, when as Christian 'A Gathering', neglect a lot of things that has been established in the New Covenant, supposedly to already show reflecting in us 'abiding' in the words of our LORD JESUS CHRIST. The early church did not have the HOLY BIBLE, but persevered persecution to produce them for us by the will of CHRIST for GOD HIS FATHER and anointing in us the HOLY SPIRIT to be our Teacher.

The Old Testament included in the HOLY BIBLE are for those who are in the flesh/carnal ignorance but the New Testament is for believers in the SPIRIT/spirit sound doctrine knowledge Old and New understanding moving forward and not looking back what they have buried the flesh/carnal man's even in understanding in what is Spiritual.

Stephen in the book of Acts did not waste time in teaching the Jews what they have already know but proclaimed from the Old, through Abraham the promise and of the New to come and the New has come, and is JESUS, whom they have crucified.

If we go on like others in childishness and youthful passion in discussing the HOLY BIBLE, we are still in the flesh/carnal understanding proclaiming them. We only drag on and on in our discussion and go around in circles and get nowhere, to what has already been established and justified and is a written proof taught by the HOLY SPIRIT.

This information is Spiritually sufficient for us to grow up, imitating the Apostles and how they have proclaimed them, and is written in the HOLY BIBLE for our taught witnessing.

Please, i do not want to continue further, for there is a lot of work to be done in the field.

Thank you and GOD in CHRIST bless and Good-by for now.

 

[LEPIDUS]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

I am saying that Paul taught the NT revelation he was given by Jesus Christ personally,

and where applicable, used the OT to explain it, as Jesus showed him.

Paul's teaching is what Jesus Christ gave him, not what he gleaned from the OT.

From what I understand here is that Paul was not the only one who received this revelation and it was revealed by The Holy Spirit. Yes it may be true that the revelation was not revealed in the Old Testament, and for good reason as it was not the appointed time, being that the covenant was not with gentiles in the Old Testament. And even then the revelation has nothing to do with doing away the commandments, he even encourages to keep them. Read the following.

Ephesians 3
1For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles—2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. 4When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ,5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

7 Of this gospel I was made a minister according to the gift of God's grace, which was given me by the working of his power.8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages inGod who created all things,10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.11 This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him.13 So I ask you not to lose heart over what I am suffering for you, which is your glory.

I understand from what I've read is that the mystery is only that we are also part of the covenant now.

Furthermore, it goes on to say in chap 4

11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,[d]12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. 19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. 20But that is not the way you learned Christ!—21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22 to put off your old self,[f] which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

then he goes on to encourage the 6th commandment

chapter 6
1Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother” (this is the first commandment with a promise), 3 “that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.”

so what I've understood is that after receiving the revelation of the mystery he addresses "gentiles" not to be like "gentiles"

If, as a gentile, I don't need to keep the commandments according to your understanding why then would he state not to be like a gentile, cause really that is what you are saying; the old covenant is done away with, commandments included because we are under grace. According to what I've just read that sounds contradicting.

 

[fredjames]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

From what I understand here is that Paul was not the only one who received this revelation and it was revealed by The Holy Spirit. Yes it may be true that the revelation was not revealed in the Old Testament, and for good reason as it was not the appointed time, being that the covenant was not with gentiles in the Old Testament. And even then the revelation has nothing to do with doing away the commandments, he even encourages to keep them. Read the following.

Ephesians 3
1For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles—2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. 4When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ,5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

7 Of this gospel I was made a minister according to the gift of God's grace, which was given me by the working of his power.8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,9 and to bring to light for everyone what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages inGod who created all things,10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.11 This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through our faith in him.13 So I ask you not to lose heart over what I am suffering for you, which is your glory.

I understand from what I've read is that the mystery is only that we are also part of the covenant now.

Furthermore, it goes on to say in chap 4

11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,[d]12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

17 Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. 19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity. 20But that is not the way you learned Christ!—21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22 to put off your old self,[f] which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

then he goes on to encourage the 6th commandment

chapter 6
1Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother” (this is the first commandment with a promise), 3 “that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.”

so what I've understood is that after receiving the revelation of the mystery he addresses "gentiles" not to be like "gentiles"

If, as a gentile, I don't need to keep the commandments according to your understanding why then would he state not to be like a gentile, cause really that is what you are saying; the old covenant is done away with, commandments included because we are under grace. According to what I've just read that sounds contradicting.

Then what else, "Respect the Sabbath". This means not to work on Sunday? Time to sing, praise and pray to the LORD with the family and later go for lunch and feast and rest for the day. This are part of the practices that a believer is witnessing in the churches today.

The New Covenant revelation sound doctrine knowledge from above, established and have been justified for the born again generation to 'ABIDE', taught to them by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT, through CHRIST and the Apostles, in order for them to be fruitful practicing all of them. And so, they in submission and obedience to the New, words of JESUS of spirit and life and are a living revelation proof in witnessing onto others, that their Spiritual knowledge faith and action, testifies, what it truly mean to fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law of the Old, even the ten Commandments in their lives.

That's how Apostle Paul was giving spiritual advice to children, even us, to honor their believer parents or Parent who art above, according to HIS New Covenant as Christian and also quoting from the Old, that the righteous requirement of the Law of the Old, 'Honor you parents', will be fulfilled in them in "abiding' according to the New.

The righteousness of the Law and the Propets, shall be fulfilled in us, 'if' we 'abide' in the words and love of JESUS towards one another, as according to the New Covenant Spiritual standards.

 

[just-me]

i did, i really did...but, Chris, do you really think what our brother said there is what the Lord Jesus meant?

i don't mean to call you out publicly (because i love you and respect you)...just to ask the question.

didn't Jesus mean by "this temple", the temple of His body as opposed to the idea it's the old covenant?
that must have been pretty perplexing to those who heard Him.

but verse 22 goes on to say after Jesus rose from the dead they remembered what He had said
and believed the scripture and the words Jesus had spoken. (i find that and interesting )

just-me, please forgive me if i have misunderstood/misrepresented you?

Maybe His body, but even Jesus' body was of the old. The Jews thought He meant the temple that took them over 46 years to build so either could apply. The only thing I would point out is that scripture points to the physical stone temple only in that conversation with Jesus.
John 2:19-20
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up .
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building , and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

 

[Exoaria]

Nowhere is there any implication that God had to break the Old Covenant for the new one to take place.

It's just like the government finding fault with the idea that black people should be subordinate to white people. A new law came in, and the old was done away with. You can still live under the old law and treat black people like crap, but it has no legal bearing because the government has moved onto something better. People living under the law are just living under an obsolete legislation. It is holy, but it has no power to make us holy. So God's new legislation is to impute His righteousness to us apart from our works and our deeds.

Hebrews 8:8-12
8 But God himself found fault with the old one when he said: "The day will come, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. 9 This covenant will not be like the one I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand and led them out of the land of Egypt. They did not remain faithful to my covenant, so I turned my back on them, says the Lord. 10 But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds so they will understand them, and I will write them on their hearts so they will obey them. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 11 And they will not need to teach their neighbors, nor will they need to teach their family, saying, 'You should know the Lord.' For everyone, from the least to the greatest, will already know me. 12 And I will forgive their wrongdoings, and I will never again remember their sins."

 

[just-me]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

To prove your statement, and disprove Elin's, I submit this scripture of historical events that I'm sure Elin will probably try to re-interpret.

Acts 17:10-12
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily , whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed ; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

The scriptures were the testament of the old covenant writings. John also used the same writings that were evident to those he taught.

1 John 2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.

She wouldn't have to "reinterpret" the Scripture if you would just read them yourself.

And to whom was Paul preaching in the synagogue. . .Gentiles who did not know or believe the Scriptures,
or to Jews who did know and believe the Scriptures?

This is like re-inventing the wheel.

Come on Elin, you said I needed to read scripture for myself and then it is obvious you haven't. Greeks in Acts chapter 17 are not Jews. The temple of the Jews who were in Bearea (located in Greece) had the writings of the law and the prophets since they were dispersed by the Syrians hundreds of years before. Thats' how the Greeks knew the Torah. The place of this story took place in a Jewish temple located in Greece.

Even without saying that Acts 17:11-12 indicate both Jew (Hebrew) and Greeks (Gentiles) searched these scriptures they had at their disposal and many believed by searching. Verse 12 clearly says there were many women and men who were Greeks who also believed. And you say it is like I'm inventing the wheel? Every body that reads this will say as I have explained.

"Therefore many of them believed ; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few." and you write "And to whom was Paul preaching in the synagogue. . .Gentiles who did not know or believe the Scriptures......or to Jews who did know and believe the Scriptures??"

Is it not obvious both? After all, Paul was commissioned as a minister to the Gentiles.

 

[just-me]

Yes, I do believe Just-Me meant that.

When Jesus, our LORD, said, 'tear down this temple", He meant that physical temple, that old way of the physical. And when He said, 'and in three days I will rebuild', He meant the spiritual temple, the giving of the Spirit to indwell in believers, as He was fully indwelt with the Holy Spirit and thus, called Himself 'the temple' of God. And by which , we are also called the temple of God.

Just-Me was saying He got rid of the old fleshly way (old Covenant which states that we are to follow God physically) and have replaced it with the spiritual way (new Covenant which states that we are to follow God with our spirit).

In either of the Covenants, God's way (path of leading to Him) of being worshiped is the same and that is: these are my rules if you desire to worship me: Love, just as I described it in the older writings (the Law hangs upon love). God, still today, desires those who follow Him to be upright, to walk the path He has set, to do no harm (evil) and love does cover all of these things He has said is to be a part of worshiping Him in the proper manner.

What of the Old Covenant? God has not changed His will, just the method to fulfill it.

If I have not properly answered you, let me know and I will rephrase it...

Your Brother,

Chris

Well said!! Agree all the way! God bless all who understand and believe what you wrote. It's truth. Jesus came to change us, not the words of His Father. A house divided against itself cannot stand. God the Father, and the Son are not divided in any way. In truth one will never find a division between them.

 

[achduke]

Yes, I do believe Just-Me meant that.

When Jesus, our LORD, said, 'tear down this temple", He meant that physical temple, that old way of the physical. And when He said, 'and in three days I will rebuild', He meant the spiritual temple, the giving of the Spirit to indwell in believers, as He was fully indwelt with the Holy Spirit and thus, called Himself 'the temple' of God. And by which , we are also called the temple of God.

Just-Me was saying He got rid of the old fleshly way (old Covenant which states that we are to follow God physically) and have replaced it with the spiritual way (new Covenant which states that we are to follow God with our spirit).

In either of the Covenants, God's way (path of leading to Him) of being worshiped is the same and that is: these are my rules if you desire to worship me: Love, just as I described it in the older writings (the Law hangs upon love). God, still today, desires those who follow Him to be upright, to walk the path He has set, to do no harm (evil) and love does cover all of these things He has said is to be a part of worshiping Him in the proper manner.

What of the Old Covenant? God has not changed His will, just the method to fulfill it.

If I have not properly answered you, let me know and I will rephrase it...

Your Brother,

Chris

Talmudic Evidence for the Messiah at 30 C.E.

Here is an interesting link to a website talking about the miracles that happened at the temple after Christ had risen. From the time time he had risen until the destruction of the Herod's temple miracles plagued the priests who were without explanation.

 

[just-me]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Then what else, "Respect the Sabbath". This means not to work on Sunday? Time to sing, praise and pray to the LORD with the family and later go for lunch and feast and rest for the day. This are part of the practices that a believer is witnessing in the churches today.

The New Covenant revelation sound doctrine knowledge from above, established and have been justified for the born again generation to 'ABIDE', taught to them by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT, through CHRIST and the Apostles, in order for them to be fruitful practicing all of them. And so, they in submission and obedience to the New, words of JESUS of spirit and life and are a living revelation proof in witnessing onto others, that their Spiritual knowledge faith and action, testifies, what it truly mean to fulfill the righteous requirement of the Law of the Old, even the ten Commandments in their lives.

That's how Apostle Paul was giving spiritual advice to children, even us, to honor their believer parents or Parent who art above, according to HIS New Covenant as Christian and also quoting from the Old, that the righteous requirement of the Law of the Old, 'Honor you parents', will be fulfilled in them in "abiding' according to the New.

The righteousness of the Law and the Propets, shall be fulfilled in us, 'if' we 'abide' in the words and love of JESUS towards one another, as according to the New Covenant Spiritual standards.

Correct. And even the spiritual princilple of keeping "the Sabbath day holy" still applies as resting in Christ Jesus. The writer of Hebrews explains.....
Hebrews 4:1-10
1 Let us therefore fear , lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it .
2 For unto us was the gospel preached , as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said , As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein , and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said , To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest , then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy .

 

[just-me]

Nowhere is there any implication that God had to break the Old Covenant for the new one to take place.

Right. Jesus would, and has never negated any of His Fathers words that were spoken in the Old Covenant.
The process of events that have taken place since the world began were all planned previously by God the Father and the Son. The plan is called "salvation to the world." John 3:16
"to this end I was born" John 8:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered , Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born , and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Everything written in scripture is still relevant today. Everything. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:16 God bless

 

[just-me]

Talmudic Evidence for the Messiah at 30 C.E.

Here is an interesting link to a website talking about the miracles that happened at the temple after Christ had risen. From the time time he had risen until the destruction of the Herod's temple miracles plagued the priests who were without explanation.

This also confirms the truth of Hebrews 8:13 that verses 1 thru 6 of the same chapter describe. AMEN

 

[cfultz3]

Talmudic Evidence for the Messiah at 30 C.E.

Here is an interesting link to a website talking about the miracles that happened at the temple after Christ had risen. From the time time he had risen until the destruction of the Herod's temple miracles plagued the priests who were without explanation.

Thank you for the link. I never knew about those miracles. I like the part about the doors and the explanation of why they kept opening up.

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

I am saying that
Paul taught the NT revelation he was given by Jesus Christ personally,

and where applicable, used the OT to explain it, as Jesus showed him.

Paul's teaching is what Jesus Christ gave him, not what he gleaned from the OT.

From what I understand here is that Paul was not the only one who received this revelation and it was revealed by The Holy Spirit.

And you would be misunderstanding it because of ignorance of the NT,
a pervasive problem here.

2Co 12:2-10:

"I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.
I know a man in Christ who fourtenn years ago was caught up to the third heaven.
. . .And I know that this man. . .was caught up to paradise.
He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.
. . .To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations. . .

(Paul is not talking about revelation received by anyone other than himself.)

. . .there was given me a thorn in my flesh (Gal 4:13-14?),
a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord
to take it away from me. But he said to me,
'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.'

Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses,
so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake,
I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties.
For when I am weak, then I am strong."

You could use a good Bible study.
Go read and study the entire NT.

the revelation has nothing to do with doing away the commandments,

Try reading Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 5:6; Ro 13:8, 9,10 for perspective.

he even encourages to keep them. Read the following.

Ephesians 3
1"For this reason I, Paul, a prisoner for Christ Jesus on behalf of you Gentiles—2 assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you, 3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. 4When you read this, you can perceive my insight into themystery of Christ,5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6 This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel. "

I understand from what I've read is that the mystery is only that we are also part of the covenant now.

Go learn of the many mysteries Paul presents in the NT.

17

"Now this I say and testify in the Lord, that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their minds. 18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. 19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity". . .

so what I've understood is that after receiving the revelation of the mystery he addresses "gentiles" not to be like "gentiles"

If, as a gentile, I don't need to keep the commandments according to your understanding
why then would he state not to be like a gentile,

Go learn what he means by "Gentile" here.

According to what I've just read that sounds contradicting.

Why am I not surprised?

If you knew more of the NT. . .

 

[achduke]

Thank you for the link. I never knew about those miracles. I like the part about the doors and the explanation of why they kept opening up.

It is very interesting because these are miracles told by priests who do not believe Yehoshua is the Messiah.

 

[Elin]

Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Come on Elin, you said I needed to read scripture for myself and then it is obvious you haven't. Greeks in Acts chapter 17 are not Jews. The temple of the Jews who were in Bearea (located in Greece) had the writings of the law and the prophets since they were dispersed by the Syrians hundreds of years before. Thats' how the Greeks knew the Torah. The place of this story took place in a Jewish temple located in Greece.

Even without saying that Acts 17:11-12 indicate both Jew (Hebrew) and Greeks (Gentiles) searched these scriptures they had at their disposal and many believed by searching. Verse 12 clearly says there were many women and men who were Greeks who also believed. And you say it is like I'm inventing the wheel? Every body that reads this will say as I have explained.

Good response. . .

You confirm what I stated, those in Berea included Jews and were not ignorant of the OT,
which is the only reason they considered it a convincing authority.

That does not apply to every place Paul preached the gospel, where the OT was not known
by Gentiles and was not considered a convincing authority.