The new covenant with Christ Jesus

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Mar 4, 2013
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According to what is spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers

the Mosaic covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13), and
the law is abolished (Eph 2:14-15) and set aside (Heb 7:18-19).
Thought so. If the law is abolished so is love. Get real.

Romans 8:5-7
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be
 
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cfultz3

Guest
Thought so. If the law is abolished so is love. Get real.

Romans 8:5-7
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be
But the spiritual mind is subjugated to God's Law :)
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
According to what is spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers

the Mosaic covenant is obsolete
(Heb 8:13), and
the law is abolished (Eph 2:14-15) and set aside (Heb 7:18-19).
Thought so. If the law is abolished so is love. Get real.
Your issue is not with me, it is with Paul and the writer of Hebrews.

Take it up with them.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
According to what is spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers

the Mosaic covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13), and
the law is abolished (Eph 2:14-15) and set aside (Heb 7:18-19).
I already knew your position - a misinterpretation of the letter to the Hebrews and is against what the Word of God said in Matthew 5:18, what Paul said in Romans 3:31 and Romans 7:12.
Assertion without demonstration (of any misinterpretation of the passage, Heb 8:7-13) is without merit.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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And you would be misunderstanding it because of ignorance of the NT,
a pervasive problem here.

2Co 12:2-10:

"I will go on to visions and revelations from the Lord.
I know a man in Christ who fourtenn years ago was
caught up to the third heaven.
. . .And I know that this man. . .was
caught up to paradise.
He heard inexpressible things, things that man is not permitted to tell.
. . .To keep me from becoming conceited because of
these surpassingly great revelations. . .

(Paul is not talking about revelation received by anyone other than himself.)

. . .there was given me a thorn in my flesh (Gal 4:13-14?),
a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord
to take it away from me. But he said to me,

'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.'

Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses,
so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake,
I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties.
For when I am weak, then I am strong."

You could use a good Bible study.
Go read and study the entire NT.
Yes he received the revelation by The Holy Spirit
That's not what 2Co 12:2-10 states.

and so did the other apostles according to the verse i previously presented.
Paul didn't receive his revelation from the Holy Spirit as did the others.

2Co 12:2-10 speaks for itself, as does your alteration of it.


Ephesians 3:
3 how the mystery was made known to me by revelation, as I have written briefly. 4 When you read this, you can perceive my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations
as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6
This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
Paul didn't receive his revelation from the Holy Spirit as did the others.

And you didn't bother to learn, and don't care to know of, the many mysteries Paul presents in the NT.
I suspect I know why.

And how many of those mysteries is Paul referring to here?
One, and only one.

Sorry, your assertion doesn't match the text.
Not surprising.

And were the others given a thorn in the flesh because of their surpassingly great revelations?
Your parallel passsages are not working.

nothing to do with us not following his commandments.
Try reading Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 5:6; Ro 13:8, 9,10 for perspective.
1 Corinthians 9:
19 For though I am free from all, I have made myself a servant to all, that I might win more of them.
20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.
21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God
but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak.I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. 23 I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.
1Co 9:20-21 speak for themselves regarding the law and whose law we are under.

Your issue is with Paul, not me.
Take it up with him.






 
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LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
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That's not what 2Co 12:2-10 states.


2Co 12:2-10 speaks for itself, as does your alteration of it.



So you didn't bother to learn, and don't care to know of, the many mysteries Paul presents in the NT.
I suspect I know why.

And how many of those mysteries is Paul referring to here?
One, and only one.

Sorry, your assertion doesn't match the text.
Not surprising.

And were the others given a thorn in the flesh because of their surpassingly great revelations?
Your parallel passsages are not working.


1Co 9:20-21 speak for themselves regarding the law and whose law we are under.

Your issue is with Paul, not me.
Take it up with him.

YOUR RESPONSE DOESN'T ADDRESS ANYTHING, I WILL NOT BOTHER WITH YOU ANYMORE. GOD BLESS YOU AND GUIDE YOU IN TRUTH.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Originally Posted by Elin
According to what is spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers

the Mosaic covenant is obsolete
(Heb 8:13), and
the law is abolished (Eph 2:14-15) and set aside (Heb 7:18-19).

Originally Posted by just-me

Thought so. If the law is abolished so is love. Get real.
Your issue is not with me, it is with Paul and the writer of Hebrews.

Take it up with them.
FYI
I just took it up with Paul and here's what he said.
"Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"
That was in Acts 24:13-14

He also said God forbid if the law is against the promises of God in Galatians 3:21

Oh ya, He said something else too. That faith establishes the law rather than abolishes it. Romans 3:31
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

YOUR RESPONSE DOESN'T ADDRESS ANYTHING, I WILL NOT BOTHER WITH YOU ANYMORE. GOD BLESS YOU AND GUIDE YOU IN TRUTH.
Assertion without demonstration is without merit.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Elin said:
According to what is spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers

the Mosaic covenant is obsolete
(Heb 8:13), and
the law is abolished (Eph 2:14-15) and set aside (Heb 7:18-19).

Your issue is not with me, it is with Paul and the writer of Hebrews.


Take it up with them.
FYI
I just took it up with Paul and here's what he said.
"Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers,
believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"
And this is what he told me:

the law is abolished (Eph 2:14-15).

Try taking it up also with the writer of Hebrews.

FYI: "law" in Ac 24:13-14 refers to the Pentateuch, not the Mosaic law.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
According to Eph.2:15 the "ordinances" have been abolished, not the 9 commandments; But the sabbath is not a moral law, it is an ordinance, so the sabbath ordinance is abolished. That is why, we can not keep, demand, the sat. sabbath, because it divides people,unnecessarily. Love to all, Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

In the new Cov. we have a change in the priesthood and so all the earthly laws for the priesthood can not apply to Christ. Jesus is our new priest after the order of Melchizedek. The believers are Christ's temple and His "once for all" blood is applied to us. Christ's temple, where He serves, is in Heaven. Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

In Acts 24 :14 Paul confesses his faith in ALL of the Old T. "the law and the prophets".
Paul believed all the scriptures, but only practiced the laws of Christ, the New T. .
 
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Hoffco

Guest
Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

Paul believed in preaching the moral laws and principles of Jesus, the whole New T., which produced conviction of sin and showed us our need for the new birth and forgiveness and showed us how to live a godly life. Paul also confessed he broke some of the intricate details of these complicated N.T. rules and principles which need the wisdom of God in order to keep in a pure way., from a heart of love for God and mankind. Love to all, Hoffco
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
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According to Eph.2:15 the "ordinances" have been abolished, not the 9 commandments; But the sabbath is not a moral law, it is an ordinance, so the sabbath ordinance is abolished. That is why, we can not keep, demand, the sat. sabbath, because it divides people,unnecessarily. Love to all, Hoffco
um, how is it that only 1 of the commandments God hand wrote will be abolished?

The Sabbath was included in the commandments he hand wrote.

And no one is demanding anyone to keep it, only presenting scripture within the context of the entire bible.

It is only causing division because people don't want to do what Christ taught. If everyone followed his example this would not be an issue I addressed this in another thread.

[h=2]
Re: Is your house build on the rock or sand?[/h]
"Christians" claim or at least think their foundation is upon the rock. However, if that is true there should not be any division among the body of Christ. People read the same bible and have different understanding. That would not be an issue if people followed Christs example; by speaking he taught, by his actions he confirmed. There are so many different interpretation of scripture that it does not bring unity to the body of Christ. Therefor, the foundation cannot be Christ.


It should be built on Christ, The Rock, not on Paul, Peter or any other human being that claim to have great understanding. Christ teachings is the doctrine that "christians" should be following, and by no means with this statement am I belittling the teachings of the OLD TESTAMENT, as Christ was also the focus. The Bible should be understood as a whole; not pick and choose to what suits us, because regardless if I or you want to, His will, will be done. I believe God is gracious enough to present us what that will is, but our human nature is corrupted and by our own interpretation have caused division among the body.


No one, no human, no other God is Above Him. His Word, should be final doctrine whether it suits us or not.


Deuteronomy 3:24 (KJV)
24 O Lord God, thou hast begun to shew thy servant thy greatness, and thy mighty hand: for what God is there in heaven or in earth, that can do according to thy works, and according to thy might?


If Christ laid the foundation, Why lay another? Especially one that is unstable.


1 Corinthians 3:11 (KJV)
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Matthew 7:25 (KJV)
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.


If "christians" believe his teachings, and really see him as the foundation, we should all be united as whole, as one; as He is to the Father, and how we shall be to them (Father,Son), united as one. There would be no division in the body for we are one with them.


John 17:21-23 (KJV)
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.


22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:


23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.


John 17 is a beautiful prayer from Christ to The Father. Yes many will say you are taking that out of context, for he is praying for the Apostles.


Are we not part of the body of Christ, as much as they are?


Two things can bring us to unity, divine love, divine word; divine love will unite without discrimination, divine word will unite in doctrine.


These are my thoughts on this, lol I know some will oppose and have some haughty assertion to make and that is fine.

One understanding of Christ teachings, will bring unity to the body of Christ, not many different interpretations of any denomination will bring unity to the body of Christ.

We are to let The Bible interpret itself, within the context of the entire bible.
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
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Re: The new covenant of Christ Jesus

In Acts 24 :14 Paul confesses his faith in ALL of the Old T. "the law and the prophets".
Paul believed all the scriptures, but only practiced the laws of Christ, the New T. .
He kept the commandments of the OT by practicing the commandments of Christ, love your God with all your heart mind and soul, love your neighbor as yourself.

Because the commandments of the OT depend on those two.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
To LEPIDUS, Sorry, you lie, because you don't use the WHOLE "context" of the NEW T.. Paul forbade the keeping of the Sat. sabbath, and all other sabbaths. Do you have a conscience? Or have you seared it so much, it can not speak to your heart anymore? Love Hoffco
 

LEPIDUS

Senior Member
May 15, 2012
457
10
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To LEPIDUS, Sorry, you lie, because you don't use the WHOLE "context" of the NEW T.. Paul forbade the keeping of the Sat. sabbath, and all other sabbaths. (Do you have a conscience? Or have you seared it so much, it can not speak to your heart anymore? Love Hoffco)
What verse does it say that?

MY HEART speaks to my conscience and for that reason I want to follow Christ example. Be Blessed
 
Mar 4, 2013
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To LEPIDUS, Sorry, you lie, because you don't use the WHOLE "context" of the NEW T.. Paul forbade the keeping of the Sat. sabbath, and all other sabbaths. Do you have a conscience? Or have you seared it so much, it can not speak to your heart anymore? Love Hoffco
Verse please
I look at the Sabbath as the seventh day. It is a day of ceasing from our own works, but not from God's work. That make sense? I don't remember anywhere in scripture that Paul specifically forbade the keeping of the Sabbath unless you are referring to it as a justified by our own works thing.

The following scripture is the way I see keeping the Sabbath day holy. Ya can't keep it holy by observing it to justify yourself, but you can keep it holy by doing the works of faith through Christ Jesus. As per the name of this thread it's time to rest in "The New Covenant with Christ Jesus."

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Acts 15:19-21
19 Wherefore my sentence is , that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

This is a history of the first instituted sabbath when manna fell from heaven in the 2nd month
Hebrews 3:15-18
15 While it is said , To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
16 For some, when they had heard , did provoke : howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned , whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not ?

Then we read Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear , lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it .

And to summarize Hebrews 4:8-10
8 For if Jesus had given them rest , then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

The Sabbath day is a day of rest and if a person observed it minus faith, that only produces self works of self righeousness then no matter how good it may appear to others the day cannot be holy by self works. It is only holy by the works that God would have us to do.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy
 
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Hoffco

Guest
Gal.5:9-10 "...you turn back to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe, days, and months and seasons and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have labored for you in vain." ("DAYS"that covers it all). Col2:11,-16 tells us ,the physical "requirements" are replaces with the spiritual ones. Spirit baptism, spiritual retreats, when and where ever we want, replace the "required" days. SO, col.2:16"Let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, v.17"Which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance in of Christ." Rom.14:13"Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way." v.17"For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." v.20 "...All things are indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense." I will look for more verse to show our freedom in Christ. Love Hoffco