I understand everything you are saying my friend....but God gets the Glory....I will have you know it is the goodness of God that leads us to repentance....when one leaves the presence of God they become powerless once again to sin and it is because of his mercy we are not consumed because we are disgracing and grieving the HS he place in us. So he sends his word to kindle the spirit in you, then you respond to his call....so don't think for one minute you came back on your own. What you need to acknowledge is that when you backslid you were dead in sin, lost just as you were before you had known Christ
It is possible for a Christian to lose their salvation.
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I'll admit sometimes I have a hard time saying what I am trying to say. That's ok because I can be corrected and learn better how to say what I mean.. face to face I know I could have said it easier quicker and clearer. Keep correcting me when I say something wrong according to God's Word. Helping me to explain better
Psalm 69:28 May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.
One of the many verses OSAS proponents choose to ignore.
Of course your answer will be "well if they are blotted out they never were written in to begin with". Can you really erase something that wasn't written? Just like you can't fall from somewhere you were never at? Blind fallacies taking in only half the picture. You defy not only logic but God's very word.
Have you noticed how OSASers hold that anyone who doesn't believe with them ISN'T SAVED? I've yet to hear a 'you can chose to step away' proponent claim that a OSASer isn't saved. It's easy to see who gets the BIG PICTURE and those who choose to see out of only one eye.
Oh jeez I fed the beast... Bad Rick! Bad Rick!
One of the many verses OSAS proponents choose to ignore.
Of course your answer will be "well if they are blotted out they never were written in to begin with". Can you really erase something that wasn't written? Just like you can't fall from somewhere you were never at? Blind fallacies taking in only half the picture. You defy not only logic but God's very word.
Have you noticed how OSASers hold that anyone who doesn't believe with them ISN'T SAVED? I've yet to hear a 'you can chose to step away' proponent claim that a OSASer isn't saved. It's easy to see who gets the BIG PICTURE and those who choose to see out of only one eye.
Oh jeez I fed the beast... Bad Rick! Bad Rick!
believe me when I tell you I know what you mean, one of my greatest concern is to have people receive God's message and not me...I try not to make to much comments because they sometimes don't align well with the word. I also believe God's word should be enough to convince a person...so I will quote this scripture ...that you should meditate upon...
2 Peter 2:20-22King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
2 Peter 2:20-22King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
K
Read 2 Peter 2:20-22 that I gave in post 41.
It does not say they were never saved, it says they escaped the defilements of this world through Jesus Christ.
Which this means they were in a saved state, but then they turned and went back to living in willful sin/defilements of this world. They then lost that saved state, and now their ending is worse then it was because they could have stayed saved but instead are now headed for destruction.
It does not say they were never saved, it says they escaped the defilements of this world through Jesus Christ.
Which this means they were in a saved state, but then they turned and went back to living in willful sin/defilements of this world. They then lost that saved state, and now their ending is worse then it was because they could have stayed saved but instead are now headed for destruction.
why play with words...this clearly means some believers did not overcome and their names will be erased...unless of course everyone has their names written in the Lambs book of life....and you are right he is not speaking to those who just believe but those who believe and overcome....so it looks like mere believers don't make it...it is believers who overcome that are told their names will not be erased
How Many Threads On the Same Subject?
I doubt that anything original will be presented here.
Since the agents of evil don't give up, It has been argued ad nauseum at:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/91892-satanic-heresy-deny-eternal-security.html
You will never find Lose & Salvation in the same verse in the Bible.
But you do find eternal security reiterated thus:
Ps 34
Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.
< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
h.
I doubt that anything original will be presented here.
Since the agents of evil don't give up, It has been argued ad nauseum at:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/91892-satanic-heresy-deny-eternal-security.html
You will never find Lose & Salvation in the same verse in the Bible.
But you do find eternal security reiterated thus:
Ps 34
Jehovah redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.
Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.
Col 3
When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then you also with him shall be manifested in glory.
2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace,
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.
< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
h.
E
Ezekiel 33:13-17King James Version (KJV)
13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
17 Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
14 Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
15 If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
16 None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
17 Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
F
Is this another one of of those OSAS things? because I for one have a unique belief on that. I belief it is possible for a Christian to lose their salvation because Satan can easily distract you by worldy things and thinking and if you never sought Love in the first place you can easily be misled. However if one ever truly got to know God and sought to be love and be just like him then its not possible to fall away. When u truly get to know God, his nature his character his heart you fall madly in love with him and continue to fall deeper as if you were falling in a bottomless sea. So then you would become just like him slowly and surely.
Why do you think the hidden and deep secrets of God and the bible are lost to ppl who are not Christians for love? lots of Christians know tons of scripture and have been what they call saved for years yet the dont see or understand the deeper meaning and reason behind the scriptures they claim to know and understand. Why? because they lack love in their hearts and because of this their hearts may not be right with God in the first place and can easily be lost and mislead. So yes a Christian can lose their salvation however a true Christian cannot
Why do you think the hidden and deep secrets of God and the bible are lost to ppl who are not Christians for love? lots of Christians know tons of scripture and have been what they call saved for years yet the dont see or understand the deeper meaning and reason behind the scriptures they claim to know and understand. Why? because they lack love in their hearts and because of this their hearts may not be right with God in the first place and can easily be lost and mislead. So yes a Christian can lose their salvation however a true Christian cannot
Re: How Many Threads On the Same Subject?
Atwood you cannot make rules and not play by them....you will never find eternal security in the bible...you will never find OSS in the bible...you will never find OSAS in the bible...so based on your rules because lose and salvation are not found together in the bible one cannot lose salvation....ES ,OSS and OSAS cannot be found anywhere in the bible so they are false and since we are here trinity cannot be found either so it does not exist...your rules...
Atwood you cannot make rules and not play by them....you will never find eternal security in the bible...you will never find OSS in the bible...you will never find OSAS in the bible...so based on your rules because lose and salvation are not found together in the bible one cannot lose salvation....ES ,OSS and OSAS cannot be found anywhere in the bible so they are false and since we are here trinity cannot be found either so it does not exist...your rules...
Did you read the whole Psalm? Do you honestly think v.28 is speaking of Christians
Whose the 'they' in v.28? It takes you back to v.4 if you care to look...
Psalms 69:4 They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, being mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away.
But I'll let you go on with your fantasy and false assumptions.
Whose the 'they' in v.28? It takes you back to v.4 if you care to look...
Psalms 69:4 They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, being mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away.
But I'll let you go on with your fantasy and false assumptions.
I can't possible reply to even most of the posts, but from what I'm reading, every one is responding to the title of the tread.
The title is not the topic of this thread. Otherwise it would be yet another OSAS thread. The topic is not in the title, but the text. The text is about receiving Christ through His word.
The bible clearly shows that we are born again by receiving the truth of God's word by faith. The bible says, the just shall live by faith. When one stops living by faith, are they still the just? When the truth becomes a lie to them, whereby they were saved through faith, do they lose their salvation? Remember, it is the truth that we know that sets up free. When we reject the truth, whom Jesus is, then we in effect, reject Jesus or the word of God. When we stop believing, which is how we came to a saving knowledge of Christ, and start doubting by rejecting the truth, such as the atheist I mentioned, then how can the truth or God's word and the Holy Ghost stay in you. You are a new creation, BECAUSE God is in you through His word. When you reject His word, which He put above even His name, then you reject Christ.
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
If you can make a bad tree good, then you can make a good tree corrupt.
You make a bad tree good when God's the seed is planted in the heart. It is planted when you believe, agree with, and accept the truth of the gospel.
When you reject the truth and receive the lies of the devil, then the bad seed of the devil gets planted in the heart, choking the good word or truth, thereby corrupting the good seed that was planted.
According to the parable of the sower, the seed can die within the heart, because in was planted on stony ground where it didn't have much depth of earth. Then when trials and temptations came, it died, and they fell away.
What does it mean, 'they fell away'?
The earth is the heart of man, the seed is the truth/word of God whereby we are born again.
If the seed, that made the person a new creation or a good tree, dies within the so called believer because they have rejected the truth and fell away, then how can they still be His?
The title is not the topic of this thread. Otherwise it would be yet another OSAS thread. The topic is not in the title, but the text. The text is about receiving Christ through His word.
The bible clearly shows that we are born again by receiving the truth of God's word by faith. The bible says, the just shall live by faith. When one stops living by faith, are they still the just? When the truth becomes a lie to them, whereby they were saved through faith, do they lose their salvation? Remember, it is the truth that we know that sets up free. When we reject the truth, whom Jesus is, then we in effect, reject Jesus or the word of God. When we stop believing, which is how we came to a saving knowledge of Christ, and start doubting by rejecting the truth, such as the atheist I mentioned, then how can the truth or God's word and the Holy Ghost stay in you. You are a new creation, BECAUSE God is in you through His word. When you reject His word, which He put above even His name, then you reject Christ.
Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
If you can make a bad tree good, then you can make a good tree corrupt.
You make a bad tree good when God's the seed is planted in the heart. It is planted when you believe, agree with, and accept the truth of the gospel.
When you reject the truth and receive the lies of the devil, then the bad seed of the devil gets planted in the heart, choking the good word or truth, thereby corrupting the good seed that was planted.
According to the parable of the sower, the seed can die within the heart, because in was planted on stony ground where it didn't have much depth of earth. Then when trials and temptations came, it died, and they fell away.
What does it mean, 'they fell away'?
The earth is the heart of man, the seed is the truth/word of God whereby we are born again.
If the seed, that made the person a new creation or a good tree, dies within the so called believer because they have rejected the truth and fell away, then how can they still be His?
No sir, it clearly is not.
This thread is about receiving salvation through believing the gospel and receiving the truth through faith.
If one receives truth through faith then they certainly can lose the truth and faith in God and His word, if they receive a lie.
Remember, you cannot serve both God and money. Neither can you serve the truth and a lie, or the devil and God, at the same time. 'For either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other'.
A person IS who they are, BECAUSE of the spirit in them. The truth is of God, therefore God's word or Jesus is planted in the heart of the believer.
The Lie is of the devil, for he is the father of it, therefore his seed will be planted in the heart of the doubter, and will become like the devil.
It is possible for a believer to reject the truth, thereby rejecting the seed of Christ and salvation, and agree with the lie, thereby receiving the seed of the devil.
This is not just about salvation, but the other promises of God as well.
This thread is about receiving salvation through believing the gospel and receiving the truth through faith.
If one receives truth through faith then they certainly can lose the truth and faith in God and His word, if they receive a lie.
Remember, you cannot serve both God and money. Neither can you serve the truth and a lie, or the devil and God, at the same time. 'For either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other'.
A person IS who they are, BECAUSE of the spirit in them. The truth is of God, therefore God's word or Jesus is planted in the heart of the believer.
The Lie is of the devil, for he is the father of it, therefore his seed will be planted in the heart of the doubter, and will become like the devil.
It is possible for a believer to reject the truth, thereby rejecting the seed of Christ and salvation, and agree with the lie, thereby receiving the seed of the devil.
This is not just about salvation, but the other promises of God as well.
F
Well my salvation did not come from the bible or faith. My salvation came from this- Jesus and what he did, Gods great love and mercy and simply because I beeged him to come into my heart. I do however believe in every part of the bible as it is a very precious mysterious and holy book filled with beautiful treasures that we take for granted every day, they are the scriptures and that fill the bible