Conditional Salvation

[Cassian]

Do you actually believe IN HIM for salvation or in your performance? John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes IN HIM shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

Yes, I cannot save myself. We were created to work with God to bring our lives to Him as a living sacrifice. So, any work on my part is null and void it is not through faith.

1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. In Philippians 2:12, notice that Paul said, "work out" not "work for" your salvation. This does not refer to salvation by works but it does refer to the believer's responsibility for active pursuit of obedience in the process of ongoing sanctification. Verse 13 continues, "for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose."

again, your statement is based on your erroneous misunderstanding on the purpose of man's existence. You have this notion that if it is not God saving you, then the only option is that man must save himself. The correct understanding is that it it through a synergistic, cooperative, covenantal relationship of love and obedience that any man will attain eternal life. Also, justification cannot be separated from what you call sanctification.

Not at all. Salvation by works is a denial of Christ's finished work of redemption being the all sufficient means of the salvation of believers. Jesus needs no supplements. There is a difference between what man is saved FOR and what man is saved BY.

here again you conflate what Christ did and man's response. In either case, it is never by man's work. In the former, Christ's work, man has no part to play. It is a gift of Christ to the world. However, within the covenant it is a cooperative work that permits man to attain eternal life.

Those who have been saved through faith are saved NOW, even though they have not yet received their glorified bodies. Eternal life is a present possession for believers (John 5:24). Notice has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

absolutely. Yet, the condition is that one believes. When one no longer believes then eternal life cannot be inherited.

You don't have to reach entire sanctification in order to take possession of eternal life.

never made the claim.

John talks about those who leave and why in 1 John 2:19.

there are many reason to leave. Adam believed the deception of Satan.

To BELIEVE IN HIM means to trust IN HIM as the all sufficient means of our salvation.

When you say this youi are referring to Christ's works which was a gift to all men and was not just sufficient but accomplished.

Not Him + our works or Him + something else, but HIM ALONE. That is the CAUSE and joining with Christ in a relationship of love and obedience is the EFFECT. Offering our life to God as a living sacrifice, wholly acceptable to Him is what we are saved FOR. This is our reasonable service, not salvation based on our performance/works.

there is no past tense until you have died. Until then it is in flux. It depends on your faithfulness. God does not grant eternal life to those who would trample that gift.

John 6:40 - For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. To be saved "through faith" means that we are saved through placing our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Christ alone for salvation. Living our life in accordance with His will as scripture describes AFTER we have been saved through faith is what we are saved FOR (Ephesians 2:10) and not by. You are basing salvation on "your performance" and where do you draw the line in the sand and say that you have SUFFICIENTLY lived according to His will so now Jesus will be able to save you? Where is the assurance in that? (1 John 5:13)

which is why your view has never been the meaning of "attaining eternal life". It is wholly a product of Luther and I might say, part of predestination of Calvin, because you deny that man has a free will and can reject Christ at any time.

"Have mercy upon me a sinner" and "I'm trusting in my performance to save me" is an oxymoron.

that is wholly your misunderstanding again, based on your paradigm, not scripture.

John 20:31 - But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. Not eternal life?

HUGE condition. Believing.

Regardless of anyone's theories, Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not on the merits of our works. Plain and simple.

That is what the devil believes since on the basis of Christ's work, he was defeated. Death was reversed to life for the world. Christ's work has no relation to how man attains eternal life, except it makes it possible for man to enter into a relationship that has an eternal basis. Christ was not loving your enemies on the Cross for you. Christ was not being obedient for you as an individual in abiding in His commandments.
These are all your personal responsibility which is the reason that each wills give an account of their works.

2 Timothy 3:16 - All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. What are you suggesting that we should ADD to scripture?

The meaning of scripture as it was given in the beginning, before it was even written.

Yet both churches base salvation on man's performance/deeds/works and not on Christ alone.

You are incorrect on both counts. The RC has changed it somewhat, but neither believe in sola fide and neither believes that man must work for salvation.

If it was God alone, then all men would be saved. Actually, we would not be in the predicament we are in because by your theory, Adam would have been unable to leave the relationship he had with God. As I stated before, your whole theology falls with the fall of Adam.

You are holding to several man made theories and have even assimulated then into one.

 

[kepha]

They are still beating that "works salvation" drum? The Catholic Church condemned "works salvation" 1000 years before the first Protestant was born! Yet the myth prevails...

The Canons Of The Council Of Orange 529 A.D.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They are still beating that "works salvation" drum? The Catholic Church condemned "works salvation" 1000 years before the first Protestant was born! Yet the myth prevails...

The Canons Of The Council Of Orange 529 A.D.

how can you claim they condemn it, when it is what they preach.


denying it does not make it a fact.

 

[notuptome]

how can you claim they condemn it, when it is what they preach.


denying it does not make it a fact.

You rename it the sacramental rites. By making works into sacraments you get around the truth of Gods word. Romanism teaches that grace is received by the sacraments. It's their version of faith. The faith of Christ is not in sacramental rites but the word of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[mailmandan]

A constant refusal to see truth will only lead to complete blindness. A constant refusal to accept Jesus as our only means to justification will lead only to unrest.

Knowing the peace of God quiets the soul and gives us peace of mind. This cannot be done without accepting the fact that we cannot in any way save ourselves or add anything to the "finished" work of Christ. Our faith in God will be shown through our "good works" because we trust the "finished" work of Christ for our Salvation.

Amen! There is a reason why people refuse to accept the truth/believe the gospel. 2 Corinthians 4:3 - But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, I cannot save myself. We were created to work with God to bring our lives to Him as a living sacrifice. So, any work on my part is null and void it is not through faith.

So what you are saying is that you can save yourself through faith by works, just not without faith. Still works salvation.

again, your statement is based on your erroneous misunderstanding on the purpose of man's existence. You have this notion that if it is not God saving you, then the only option is that man must save himself. The correct understanding is that it it through a synergistic, cooperative, covenantal relationship of love and obedience that any man will attain eternal life. Also, justification cannot be separated from what you call sanctification.

There is a difference between "have been saved through faith" from the penalty of sin (Justification) and "being saved" from the power of sin (ongoing Sanctification) just you simply mix these two together in order to make receiving eternal life based on our performance/works.

However, within the covenant it is a cooperative work that permits man to attain eternal life.

Cooperative work? So how many works must we cooperate and accomplish and add to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him save us?

absolutely. Yet, the condition is that one believes. When one no longer believes then eternal life cannot be inherited.

Saving belief continues and is not some shallow temporary belief that has no root.

never made the claim.

It sure sounded like it.

When you say this youi are referring to Christ's works which was a gift to all men and was not just sufficient but accomplished.

A gift must be received (Ephesians 2:8).

It depends on your faithfulness.

It depends on our faith, not our performance/works.

God does not grant eternal life to those who would trample that gift.

Not genuine believers.

which is why your view has never been the meaning of "attaining eternal life". It is wholly a product of Luther and I might say, part of predestination of Calvin, because you deny that man has a free will and can reject Christ at any time.

Man has free will, yet genuine born again believers are a new creation in Christ and are kept by the power of God through faith and preserved in Christ.

that is wholly your misunderstanding again, based on your paradigm, not scripture.

Just the opposite.

HUGE condition. Believing.

So now you acknowledge that believing results in eternal life?

That is what the devil believes since on the basis of Christ's work, he was defeated.

The devil was defeated through Christ's work, yet man is saved through faith based on the merits of Christ's work.

Death was reversed to life for the world. Christ's work has no relation to how man attains eternal life, except it makes it possible for man to enter into a relationship that has an eternal basis.

So what you are saying is that Christ's work simply makes it "possible" for man to have a relationship with Christ and save himself based on his performance?

Christ was not loving your enemies on the Cross for you. Christ was not being obedient for you as an individual in abiding in His commandments.

This is what believers are saved FOR. You could NEVER be obedient "enough" to earn salvation. That is the whole deception!

These are all your personal responsibility which is the reason that each wills give an account of their works.

Believers will be judged by their works to determine rewards or loss of rewards (1 Corinthians 3:13-15).

The meaning of scripture as it was given in the beginning, before it was even written.

So what do you ADD to scripture and use for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness?

You are incorrect on both counts. The RC has changed it somewhat, but neither believe in sola fide and neither believes that man must work for salvation.

Just as I thought. Both churches base salvation on man's performance/deeds/works and not on Christ alone. Difference in style, but same in substance. Works salvation.

If it was God alone, then all men would be saved.

Christ alone is the all sufficient means of our salvation. Our faith must rest exclusively in Him to receive salvation.

Actually, we would not be in the predicament we are in because by your theory, Adam would have been unable to leave the relationship he had with God. As I stated before, your whole theology falls with the fall of Adam.

1 Corinthians 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

You are holding to several man made theories and have even assimulated then into one.

Which is what your church indoctrination has taught you.

 

[Jackson123]

Catholic is double standard

1. He said you need water baptism to be save.

2. He said Muslim is in the plan of salvation. Did Muslim doing sacrament water baptism?

And to make it look right, she interpret, God salvation is for all.

In this case why not just say so.

She not only said the plan of salvation is also for muslim, she continue with additional explanation.

Because she said Muslim worship the God of Abraham. In fact Muslim worship Allah.

With this additional information that state why muslim include in the plan of salvation (because worship Abraham God) why they interpret this statement as the plan salvation is for all? Did all people worship Abraham God like muslim?

Prove to be lie and cover the lie with another lie.

All she want is make one world religion and embrace Muslim by make that statement, make muslim happy than accept one world religion concept.

6. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127)

 

[Cassian]

So what you are saying is that you can save yourself through faith by works, just not without faith. Still works salvation.

No, scripture calls it attaining eternal life through faith. Faith is the means, works are the content.

There is a difference between "have been saved through faith" from the penalty of sin (Justification) and "being saved" from the power of sin (ongoing Sanctification) just you simply mix these two together in order to make receiving eternal life based on our performance/works. [/quote] That is your error. One cannot exist without the other. If one is no longer being sanctified then they are also no longer justified. They work together. There is no text in scripture that states if one is justified once, they are forever justified. Scripture speaks ad nauseam about the believer guarding himself that he does not lose faith. Why is that so? Because losing faith means one is no longer justified. How can you be justified if you have no faith? No faith, also means one will not inherit eternal life. Scripture lays it out very clearly, but if one superimposes false suppositions upon scripture, the meaning will change, as is quite obvious.

Cooperative work? So how many works must we cooperate and accomplish and add to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him save us?

NONE. This is another complete misunderstanding of Christ's work. Christ did absolutely nothing on the Cross that gives you eternal life. If Adam had not sinned, he would have attained immortality by working faithfully with God. Christ reversed the fall which precluded man from having an eternal relationship with God.
You have nothing to do with redemption.
It is all Christ, it is all grace and is a free gift of Christ's love, grace and mercy to every human being.
This is the aspect that Paul states man cannot do, not even the works of the law cannot save us. Man is incapable of atoning for sin or in giving life to a dead mortal being.

Salvation from death and sin, reversing the fall's purpose was to enable God and man to again have a working relationship in this life and for eternity.

Your working through faith is not for God, but for man. Man needs to be healed and we do that by denying ourselves, curbing the sinful habits man develops in his fallen state. The only way we can do that is to rely upon the Holy Spirit to strengthen and guide us to becoming more Christlike. We are commanded to be perfect as He is perfect. We are, should be, transformed into new creatures. That takes work. God is NOT going to do this for you. it is a cooperative, synergistic, covenantal working out of our salvation, attaining eternal life.

Saving belief continues and is not some shallow temporary belief that has no root.

that is a philosophical statement that cannot be found in scripture. IF faith continues it can be a saving faith. If faith fails, obviously it is NOT a saving faith.

A gift must be received (Ephesians 2:8).

Christ's gift of salvation from death and sin is a one sided gift. It is given to the world, to all men. Man in fact, cannot receive it. What is accepting the sacrifice for sin going to either do for the sacrifice or for you? Does scripture say that you must accept the resurrection, or is the resurrection going to occur anyway?

Now gift of eternal life is a gift that man was achieve. It is not given willy nilly to just anyone. It is given to those that are faithful in all things.

It depends on our faith, not our performance/works.

Since faith cannot exist without work, it depends on the works or you don't even have faith.

Not genuine believers.

Man has free will, yet genuine born again believers are a new creation in Christ and are kept by the power of God through faith and preserved in Christ.

This text II Pet 13-5 denies your whole theory. The key active word is faith. God's power ONLY works as long as we have faith. If one loses faith, then God's power is no longer present. If it remained then faith would be a myth and God could just as well save every single human being which is what He desires anyway.

So now you acknowledge that believing results in eternal life?

Never stated otherwise.

The devil was defeated through Christ's work, yet man is saved through faith based on the merits of Christ's work.

there is no through faith if one is speaking of Christ's work. Christ's work saved the world, every single human being from death, sin and Satan. Faith is not a requirement.
Faith is the requirement for man to attain eternal life.

So what you are saying is that Christ's work simply makes it "possible" for man to have a relationship with Christ and save himself based on his performance?

Saved through faith which is a synergistic cooperative, covenantal working relationship.

This is what believers are saved FOR. You could NEVER be obedient "enough" to earn salvation. That is the whole deception!

This is based on your misunderstanding again. Man cannot save himself from death and sin. Even if man could have kept the law perfectly, man still could not grant life to his mortal body. This is why ONLY Christ could accomplish both. atone for sin, and grant life to the world. So, there is nothing man can do to save himself.
Now, on the other hand attaining eternal life is not earned either. They are obligations that man must do in order to attain eternal life. Man is required to work with God toward perfection. Toward becoming Christ like. Being transformed into His Image. That work is based on faith, it is continuous and active. God does not grant eternal life to those that lose faith, that are hearers only, but the faithful doers. Man was created for a purpose. God is not just creating us just so He can pat Himself on the back and say I created something. Nor did Christ redeem the world for such an empty purpose.

Believers will be judged by their works to determine rewards or loss of rewards (1 Corinthians 3:13-15).

however the ONLY reward is LIFE. Meaning eternal life. So you believe Satan will also have eternal life because he believes as well, but has no works.

So what do you ADD to scripture and use for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness?

absolutely nothing. Scripture is what was added to the Divine Revelation given in the beginning. Scripture is part of that Revelation. It is a witness to the Truth, it is NOT the Truth. Christ is the Truth and the way, NOT scripture.

Just as I thought. Both churches base salvation on man's performance/deeds/works and not on Christ alone. Difference in style, but same in substance. Works salvation.

Incorrect again. You, besides conflating Christ's work with man's response, think that the opposite of faith/Christ alone is man alone. It is why you are constantly trying to beat that strawman to death. The Biblical view is that man can only attain eternal life through faith working with the Holy Spirit to be healed.

Christ alone is the all sufficient means of our salvation. Our faith must rest exclusively in Him to receive salvation.

this is a conflated statement again. Christ is the sole means of our salvation from death and sin. But our attaining eternal life is a working out through faith with God. Faith alone is hell. Christ alone is hell as well because it lack faith.

1 Corinthians 15:22 - For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

yes, this is an Incarnational text. This is the accomplishment of Christ's Incarnation and resurrection. He gave life to the world, to every single human being. Man has been recreated into an eternal being and the curse of death through Adam has been defeated.

I'm not sure why you even posted this text because you have been either denying it, or conflating this with attaining eternal life. In any case it does not support anything you have been saying.

Which is what your church indoctrination has taught you.

Which you have yet not even approached in refuting. You exhibit a lot of errant ideas which all can be traced to modern day psedo-theologians.
Can you cite a man made theory that I have stated?

What I have been taught is the Gospel that was given in the beginning, preserved by the Holy Spirit, and unchanged by any man.

 

[SeaBass]

No, I have a valid argument, because your conditions are works. which you can boast of.

And you refuse how you see how faith is not a work one can boast of.

not of works lest anyone should boast.

You boast of your baptism, and good deeds, and your ability to maintain your salvation.

I will boast in Christ.

Was Naaman's healing by grace or was it earned?

AS I said, you have no valid argument.

Lk 17:10 what does the unprofitable servant have to boast about?

 

[SeaBass]

Why would I. We can't.. We are saved BECAUSE we are sinfull, if we could become sinless. we would have no need of salvation.




No one who is saved will be disbedient to God ( a life of sin)


[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
These are johns words, not mine, your argument is with him.

Post 736 you posted "Your saved in a sinless state, Made righteous (justified) and through it, have the ability to obey God. and do good works."

You did have not explained how a sinner who continues in doing unrighteousness all of a sudden "magically" become sinless.

John said whosoever continues in NOT doing righteousness continues to NOT be of God yet you somehow have those that continue in NOT doing righteousness SINLESS.

 

[SeaBass]

yes it is, Because the hebrews of chapter ten were never saved, They were fakes. Who were in the church, but never fully trusted God. for if they had, they never would have returned to the law.

As a dog they returned to their vomit. why? because they never were transformed into a new creature. they were dogs, who tried to put on a costume to try to hide what they were, but they were always dogs.

Heb 10:39 "But we are not of "them" who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."

If eternal security is true, then one cannot draw back unto perdition as some did.


The false teachers in 2 Pet 2 were ones who had been bought (past tense) by the Lord, verse 1. they had "escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein"

Therefore Peter compares them to a dog that TURNS to eating its own vomit AGAIN, a sow WAS WASHED (saved) but returns to wallowing in the mire.

One cannot become "again entangled" if he was always entangled. One cannot "turn" to doing something he was always doing.

 

[SeaBass]

not true.

many people come to church, act like Christians, even do a bunch of works. but where never saved, They had the word of truth, but never trusted it, They went through the emotions.

as John said, if they were truly of us, they never would have departed from us, but they departed from us, proving they were never of us.

Again, they could not "draw back unto perdition" if they were ALWAYS in perdition. Logically they must have been saved (out of perdition) in order for them to draw back unto perdition.

 

[SeaBass]

(Act 22:16)
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

As by the direction of Jesus, WE Wash the outside, (repentance/baptism water. Not a "work"). A simple "being born of water and the Word" rite appointed by Jesus, with obvious meaning to most who know scriptures and love them.

The outward physical obedience in submitting to water baptism is why God does the work of cutting away the body of sin, Col 2:12-14.

Why would Saul be told to "wash away thy sins" if sins are washed away by the blood of Christ?
Why would Peter says "you have purified your souls" if it is Christ's blood that purifies the soul, 1 Pet 1:22?

Because man has a role in his own salvation to obey Christ, Heb 5:9, Phil 2:12, and it is that sense those that obey Christ are said to wash away their sins/purify their own souls.

 

[SeaBass]

its possible to make being obedient a work that's not in truth.

Repentance is a work, a form of obedience and it is a work required by God's word/the truth.

 

[SeaBass]

Actually it's you who continues to rewrite the Bible. Once again you left out "servants of obedience-unto righteousness" (Romans 6:16) and simply stress "obedience unto righteousness" as if works of obedience that follow faith are unto righteousness, as if we are saved by works, which really tickles your ears. Because of human pride, your hands are still full of your works and you will not let go in order to take hold of Christ through faith. Your faith is in your works and not Christ alone.

There is a contrast here between servants/slaves. There are only two kinds of servants/slaves in this world, in the spiritual sense; servants/slaves of sin unto death (unbelievers), or servants/slaves of obedience unto righteousness (believers). When we place our faith exclusively in Christ for salvation/believe the gospel by trusting in His finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of our salvation, we then become "servants of obedience unto righteousness." Being slaves of sin is put in the past tense. Paul goes on in Romans 6:18 - "You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness."

Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" Choosing to believe the gospel is the act of obedience that saves. Then we become slaves of to righteousness BEFORE we accomplish any further acts of obedience. Before they obeyed that form of doctrine by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16; 10:16), they had been slaves to sin. Notice in 1 Peter 1:22 - "Purified your souls in obeying the truth" and notice in Acts 15:9 - "Purified their hearts by FAITH." They obeyed that form of doctrine by choosing to believe the gospel.

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness.. ​

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works) is accounted for righteousness. BEFORE any further acts of obedience/good works are accomplished.

As a believer, I am a servant of righteousness. If one has not obeyed the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel by trusting in Christ's finished work of redemption as the all sufficient means of their salvation, then one is not a slave of righteousness no matter how much so called obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to save themselves by works. If faith is not accounted for righteousness (Romans 4:5) then one is not righteous or a servant of righteousness. Believers are servants of righteousness BECAUSE they are righteous (faith is accounted for righteousness), not to become righteous (1 John 3:7-10). You have it backwards. You have the tail wagging the dog. The cart before the horse.

Paul did not say "servants of obedience unto righteousness" you re-wrote that/added it to the bible.

Paul did not say they were "servants of righteousness" [Rom 6:18] until AFTER they first obeyed, v17....they obeyed from the heart and THEN BECAME servants of righteousness. Not possible for one to be a servant of righteousness while they continue to disobey/do unrighteousness, 1 Jn 3:10 One is a "servant of sin" and remains that way until he starts obeying God's will/doing righteousness.

 

[SeaBass]

Really, well Paul claims in Romans to keep doing the things he does not want to do (keeps sinning). This must confuse you so much when you come across this part of the Bible. I bet you want to erase this to make your life so much more in tune with what you want to believe.

In the latter part of Romans 7 I see Paul describing his life as a Jew trying to live under the OT law. The OT law required perfection - sinlessness to be justified and Paul was describing the frustration he had in trying to keep that law perfectly. But in Rom 8 Paul shows the contrast from trying to live under the OT law to now being a Christian in Christ...."There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Rom 8:1.

Paul compares "NOW" being a Christian in Christ to back then being a Jew under the law without the shed blood of Christ.

What Paul said would never contradict what John said in 1 Jn 3:7,10.

 

[SeaBass]

dude why are you here? all you do is promote hate and lies.

I am righteous IN CHRIST. Not in myself.

You are not righteous, you never will be, Unless like abraham, Rightiousness is credited to your account. Your righteousness is nothing but filthy rags, until you understand this, you will never know God

I am here defending the truth of God's word from the faith only false teachers.

Again you have stated many times no one is saved by works so that would eliminate the idea that one is saved by doing God's righteousness. So the only thing you have left is try to get the sinner saved while he continues to do unrighteousness yet 1 Jn 3:10 among many other verses makes that idea impossible.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am here defending the truth of God's word from the faith only false teachers.

Your doing a poor job of it.

You misquote them, Say they teach something they do not. Misquote the word of God. and quite fankly, ake yourself look bad.

so for the last time.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FAITH ALONE.

Again you have stated many times no one is saved by works so that would eliminate the idea that one is saved by doing God's righteousness. So the only thing you have left is try to get the sinner saved while he continues to do unrighteousness yet 1 Jn 3:10 among many other verses makes that idea impossible.

No, what is impossible is being sinless. I am not sinless, you are not sinless. So if what you just claimed is true, no one could ever be saved.

 

[SeaBass]

Yeah God wants most men to drown. wow man are you serious? How can you live with yourself.

The fact is, You can not save yourself. Your already took you last breath, there is no strength left in you. SOMEONE HAS TO SAVE YOU.

so why are you still trying to save yourself. How can you do work, when you HAVE NO POWER??

A drowning man can not get baptized. HE NEEdS SAVED so he is ABLE to get baptized.

In post 741 you posted "Me, I was drowning, And I trusted God to pull me out of the water, and stopped trying to save myself. "

If God pulled you out, then I simply asked why doesn't God pull every man out and save every man?

See, your false teaching has you in an another bind. You do not want man to have any works, any role in own salvation > no role in getting himself out from drowning for you want God to do it all while man stays passively still in the water doing nothing. So if man cannot do anything and God alone can save him from drowning then those that drown do so for God failed to pull them out. What was special about you and your doing no works that God would pull you out while God leaves others, who also like you do no works, are left to drown?

 

[kennethcadwell]

The topic of this thread is about conditional salvation.
From my view point of what I have read in the bible is that the bible has many warnings about walking in willful sin after knowing the truth which does not lead to salvation.
It also contains multiple warnings to believers if they fall back into willful sin, if they don't repent of their sins, if they don't forgive others, and so on...

Why warn believers of such things if they are needed to follow by for salvation. Plus Lord Jesus Himself says that those who endure to the end will be saved, not flip it to say those who are saved will endure to the end like some do.