The Letter to the Romans...

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Hoffco

Guest
The New Covenant in Jesus blood is the highest and last form of the Eternal Covenant of God's Grace, which is only seen in Rom.8:29-30. I believe the eternal cov. is alluded to in Heb. 13:20. Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting, (eternal) covenant, " v. 21 "Make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever, Amen." No one can ever doubt the security of God's elect sheep. The Father has made an eternal Cov. with the SON , the only begotten Son of God, who became the Son of God by the virgin Mary, and has given Him a people, chosen for His eternal inheritance. The Book of Romans has the answers to so many questions that people ask. We must Master the book of Romans. Love to all, Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
Someone has rightly call Romans 8:29-30 the unbreakable, unconditional, GOLDEN CHAIN of GOD'S ETERNAL COVENANT of GRACE. It is all based upon God's eternal LOVE. God calls His eternal love "For whom He Foreknew". That is a form of the common, everyday word, "to know" in the Greek language. We will see how God makes that common word into a very special word, meaning to LOVE. Love to all, Hoffco, Douglas, "I shall return" LORD willing!
 
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Hoffco

Guest
In the O.T. and in the N.T. God often uses the common work, " know" to mean "love". Gen.4:1"...Adam knew (loved) his wife Eve and she conceived..." Num. ...keep alive... the...girls who have not known a man intimately" Amos 3;1-2 " O children of Israel... you only have I known of all the families of the earth..." Lk."...Mary said. How... I have not known a man." Mt. 7:23"I never knew you... depart from Me." Eph.1:4-5 "...in love, He predestined ..." Why, do Christians refuse to believe what is so easy to prove. God chose us because He loved us, not because of His foreknowledge of any fact about us. Rom.9:13,"Jacob I have love, But Esau, I have hated" Love to all, Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
I have been without my internet service for a month ,I now have a new contract with Globe, I hope this one will be better than the other was. This one only needs the modum on my desk, so far, it is good. I will try to post here every week and see if we get some action. Please join me if you have a positive attitude to the book of Romans and need some questions answered. Love to All, Hoffco
 
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ChristIsGod

Guest
Ok, so here’s my attempt at starting a contextual read of the book/letter of Romans...although, I’m not quite sure of the proper format. I've been thinking about it for a little while now and I’m not sure what would work best so I’m just gonna try something. My goal is to try to establish an unbroken chain of context in simple language as best as possible.

I was thinking I could post through Romans like we do on “The Bible verse by verse” thread, only with a few special guidelines...

Thread Guidelines:

1. Complete Thoughts

Passages from Romans must be posted in completed thoughts, regardless of chapter or verse markings, whether it’s a single line or several verses long.

[For example, Romans 1:1-6 can be comprehended as a single thought. While Romans 1:7 starts a separate thought.]

2. Format


  • Previous Context – Quote the previous conclusion/point that you're following.
  • Next Passage – Post the next portion of passage (complete thought) with verses
  • Conclusion/Point – As simple as possible what is Paul saying (following the context)?

3. Agreeing or Disagree


  • If you agree with an overall interpretation, “like” it...but please DON’T REPLY with agreement or commentary (to try to keep posts to a minimum).
  • I’m going to continue through as I have the time, but if you disagree with an overall interpretation of a passage, please post your alternative of that passage following the same format. Add “Alternative Interpretation to…” or something that lets readers know. But PLEASE refrain from splitting hairs unless the overall interpretation hinges on it.
  • If you’d like further elaboration of an interpretation request it here. But if you want to argue against an interpretation of a passage, please reference the portion and start a new thread about it (at least we’ll be able to pinpoint the source of our disagreements).
  • If you are asked to further explain an interpretation, you’re encouraged to reply with additional scriptural references if you choose to reply.

4. If a better format would work I’m open for suggestions. This is more or less by trial and error.

---

Feel free to use whichever translation you want, but in hopes of keeping it a simple read I'm using ESV (though I'm partial to KJV).

Reckon it may be impossible to have a thread of this nature with a request to follow Guidelines.
That's too bad. I'm just now finding this thread and only got a few pages in before I came to that conclusion.
Still, it sure would have been nice to see how it would have developed if it could have been successfully complied with.

Blessings!
 
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Reckon it may be impossible to have a thread of this nature with a request to follow Guidelines.
That's too bad. I'm just now finding this thread and only got a few pages in before I came to that conclusion.
Still, it sure
would have been nice to see how it would have developed if it could have been successfully complied with.
The thread was as Yahshua directed:

By the way, I'm going to continue through Romans. . .
I'd hope you and others continue to provide your alternatives interpretations to passages - as your time allows - so people can see, agree, disagree, and/or seek further explanation. Thanks!
 
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ChristIsGod

Guest
Yes, I read his posts but we lost our Brother on pg 17 & only up to Rom 6:3-4.
But it's understandable with his time restraints and what transpired, to just give up a ship. Very understandable.
 
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Yes, I read his posts but we lost our Brother on pg 17 & only up to Rom 6:3-4.
But it's understandable with his time restraints and what transpired, to just give up a ship. Very understandable.
Yes, that was the reason understood at the time, as his directions were complied with.
 
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Recap of 25 gospel principles from Ro 1:1-6:4:

1) Grace was given to Paul to (call, thereby bringing about in others) obedience of faith. (1:5)

2) The gospel is the power of God to salvation to everyone that believes, because
a
) salvation is the forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77), which saves from God's wrath (Ro 5:9)
at the final judgment,
b) it reveals a righteousness from God (Ro 1:17, 3:21), a free gift (5:17), that is through faith
by grace, not by obedience.

This righteousness = justification = declared guiltless, position of right standing before God.
The cause of justification (position of right standing) is faith only.
The result of justification (position) is actual sanctification, through the obedience of faith. (1:16-17).

3) God's wrath is shown by giving men over to their sin, by judging (punishing) sin
with increased sin. (1:18)

4) God judges
according to truth (2:2), for those who hold the truth in unrighteousness,
according to deeds (2:6-11), for those who possess the Mosaic law, and
according to the light one has (2:12-15), for Gentiles who do not possess the Mosaic law. (2:2-16)

5) Jews had the advantage of the word of God and the law, but they were not
the saving advantage of true faith. (3:1-2)

6) Though Israel was unfaithful to God, God is faithful to his promise to punish sin
and unbelief. (3:3-5)

7) God cannot be unjust in bringing his wrath on unbelief, even if unbelief benefits
God by bringing out his righteousness more clearly, for Scripture states that he is
the just judge of the world who can do no wrong
(Dt 32:4; 2Ch 19:7; Job 8:3, 34:10-11, 36:23; Ps 119:137; Eze 18:25; Da 4:37, 9:14).
If he were unjust, how could he be the just judge of the world? (3:6)

8) God has shut up all men in sin. (3:19)

9) God is both just in requiring penalty for sin, and the justifier in providing the payment
of the penalty. (3:26)

10) Righteousness through faith, apart from the law, has always been the teaching
of the OT (Ge 15:6). (3:28)

11) We do not "establish the law" by being made righteous according to it. That is anti-gospel.
We "establish the law" in the NT by establishing the right use of the law,
we don't overthrow the law, we establish its standing by setting it on the right basis;
i.e., although we cannot be saved by it as a covenant, we submit to it in Christ's two
commandments (Mt 22:37-39), which are subject to the law of grace. (3:31)

12) Salvation is the forgiveness of sin (Lk 1:77),
which removes our guilt and God's wrath on it at the final judgment.
We are saved from the wrath of God at the final judgment, by forgiveness of our sin,
not by works of obedience.
(4:8)

13) Circumcision was not an action (work) required to confirm faith.
Circumcision was a sign only, given as a seal to guarantee one's righteousness by faith,
apart from works.
(4:11)

14) Those under the law cannot be heirs to the promise because
inheritance by law keeping makes faith worthless, and
law keeping effectively voids the promise, by disqualifying everyone and producing
only wrath. (4:14-15)

15) The promise can be guaranteed only if it is based on faith, because basing it on
law keeping can result only in wrath (Gal 3:10), it cannot result in fulfillment of the promise.

Righteousness by faith was guaranteed by the sign of circumcision (4:11), and the
promise is guaranteed by grace through faith
(4:16).

16) True saving faith is the conviction of belief, which obeys. (4:20)

17) Jesus rose from the dead as the firstfruits of the resurrection of all believers,
as proof that he was who he said he was, Christ the Redeemer, of his people
from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) by forgiveness of their sin (Lk 1:77),
through faith in him (Jn 3:16, 18, 36).

The resurrection shows that Jesus' sacrifice (death) was accepted as atonement for sin (Ro 3:25) and,
therefore, we have, indeed, been justified (declared guiltless, position of right standing before God)
by his atoning death.


Christ's blood was poured out (Lk 22:20) on the ground at the base of the cross (Jn 19:34, 36-37),
just as the animals' blood was poured out on the ground at the base of the altar
(Lev 4:7, 18, 25, 30, 34).

Christ was physically resurrected, not so he could take his physical blood into a physical sanctuary
to physically sprinkle it on physical things (no physical blood, it had been poured out on the ground).

The heavenly things (gospel graces for the redeemed) of Heb 9:23-24 were purified by his Spirit,
the Holy Spirit, when
his work was finished,
his Spirit departed at his death (Jn 19:30),
returned to God, and
established
the gospel graces of his atoning
death for the redeemed.

And those graces are now applied by him in his
living resurrected body, through his Spirit (Ro 8:27)
in the presence of God (Heb 9:24), where he ever lives to intercede for us (Ro 8:34; Heb 7:25).

Christ's death atoned for sin (Ro 3:25),
and his life now applies that atonement to the redeemed in justification
(position of right standing)
by faith alone.
(4:25)

18)
We are justified (position of right standing) by faith, apart from any other actions of obedience,
as was Abraham
(Ge 15:6). (5:1)

19) We are
saved. . .from the wrath of God at the final judgment, because we have been
justified (declared guiltless, position of right standing before God) through faith in Christ's
blood (Ro 3:25), which is his atoning death. (5:9)

20) Since God saved us from his wrath through justification (declared guiltless, position of
right standing before God) by Christ's atoning
death, he shall also save (sanctify, glorify) us
through Christ's resurrected
life, who ever lives to intercede for us (Heb 7:25; Ro 8:34). (5:10)

21) Although sin was not taken into account between Adam and Moses
when there was no Mosaic law to transgress,
yet all mankind died as the result of sin (Ro 6:23).
So for what sin were all men held guilty and subject to death, when sin was not taken into account?
They were all held guilty of Adam's sin. (5:12-17).

22) Just as the one act of trespass and disobedience of the first Adam made the many sinners
and resulted in their condemnation,
so the one act of obedience and righteousness of the second Adam made righteous and justified
(position of right standing, guiltless before God) the many.

Man was both made a sinner and made righteous, not because of what man did, but because of
what Adam and Christ did.

Man is born a sinner and unrighteous, because of Adam's sin "imputed" to him at natural birth (Ps 51:5).
Man is justified, made righteous (position of right standing, guiltless) because of Christ's righteousness
"imputed" to him at spiritual rebirth. (5:18-19)

23) Just as sin was increased by the law, so grace was increased by sin (5:20-21).

24) So in 5:12-21:

a) our own sin/sinfulness is not the ground for our condemnation,
it is our guilt of Adam's sin that condemns us (Ps 51:5),
the very nature with which we are born (sinful) condemns us (Eph 2:3); and

b) our own obedience/sanctification is not the ground for our justification (position of right
standing, guiltless),
it is the righteousness of Jesus Christ's obedience to death that
justifies us, through faith alone, which is the burden of Ro 4 and Ro 5. (5:12-21)

25) Baptism is the when and how of our death to sin.
When: in our union with Christ in baptism, which is a union in the benefits of his death.
How: by entering into the purpose of his death - to redeem us from sin,
- - - -by living according to the model of his death - who died for sin,
- - - -by being raised with Christ - to die to sin. (6:1-4)
 
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Hoffco

Guest
Elim, You are still presenting a false way of salvation by faith alone, no obedience, and by Justification alone, without the powerful transformation of the new birth, which is Sanctification by God's powerful Grace. The Bible presents Sanctification before justification and both of those great trues have three stages: Santi. 1.new birth,2. christian victorious living, and 3. Glorification, the final stage. Justi. has three stages: 2. by Grace 2, by faith, and 3. by works. Romans deals with all three stages of both of these great truths. Elin, your problem is that you are deceived by Satan, as are most other teachers today , you are "taken captive by Satan" too believe the lie of the ages, by Satan, as was Eve, "has God really said?" VERY few Bible teachers have seen the FULL truth of GOD in ROMANS and thru-out the Bible, Only GOOD people go to Heaven; And sinners can only be GOOD by Sanct, the New birth, holiness IMPARTED and by Justi holiness IMPUTED, Jesus' perfect righteousness. Please, I call all the church to repent of this error of faith only and Justi. only. Sorry, this is what God has taught me, I will only follow God. Love Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
My thinking is that Yahshua had bit off more than He could chew, He really did not believe Romans, so he forsook his thread, and went to pursue his false teaching that a christian can live without sin in this life. He went into no man's land and was not seen again, by me, only once. B"UT, so be that; I am tring to keep this thread alive along the rules set up by Yahshua . I threw of someone who was giving us crazy fits with his bazzare posts and still I can not attract a following. But, if you, anyone, wants to keep studing with me, without getting crazy, please join me. Love Hoffco
 
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Elim, You are still presenting a false way of salvation by faith alone, no obedience, and by Justification alone, without the powerful transformation of the new birth, which is Sanctification by God's powerful Grace. The Bible presents Sanctification before justification and both of those great trues have three stages: Santi. 1.new birth,2. christian victorious living, and 3. Glorification, the final stage. Justi. has three stages: 2. by Grace 2, by faith, and 3. by works. Romans deals with all three stages of both of these great truths. Elin, your problem is that you are deceived by Satan, as are most other teachers today , you are "taken captive by Satan" too believe the lie of the ages, by Satan, as was Eve, "has God really said?" VERY few Bible teachers have seen the FULL truth of GOD in ROMANS and thru-out the Bible, Only GOOD people go to Heaven; And sinners can only be GOOD by Sanct, the New birth, holiness IMPARTED and by Justi holiness IMPUTED, Jesus' perfect righteousness. Please, I call all the church to repent of this error of faith only and Justi. only. Sorry, this is what God has taught me, I will only follow God. Love Hoffco
Previously addressed in the thread, and summarized in post #1289, above.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
To Christ is God, I think this thread on Romans is the only one currently going on. I will post here everyday and would pray for others to join me. The book of Romans is so key to a proper understanding of the doctrine of salvation and the nation of Israel. I call it the Gospel according to Paul. All of Paul's books, and all the books in the New Testament, reflect the great truths of Romans. This is what we would expect with God being the sole Author of the Bible; All the books of the Bible reflect upon each other. This is the great proof of the inward testimony of God, as the author, of the Bible. to you, all you new visitors to this thread, please take the time to read backwards and get caught up on my teaching and joint into the discussion at what ever point you wish to make comments on, and I will discuss your individual "hot" points with you. OR, you may agree with me, and just want to add more to what I said on that point in the book. Love to all, Hoffco ps. Please don't flood us with a long ,pointless, misleading, lists of half quoted verses that mislead people. Seek to always keep in context.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
To Elin, it is my desire for you to be a part of this thread, as you always seek to be to the point and not confusing the issue with endless quotes; My big problem with you is that you have not kept contextual enough in your Bible study to know the Bible fully yet. Sorry that I have to be "rough" with you, but you can take it and bounce back. I know I can come across as very arrogant, but, I will not believe anyone who can not keep contextual to prove their point. Vain repetition is ruling the day. Love Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
To our guests and members who visit this thread, I invite you to the tread "The law is not good enough" we are into a great discusion of Romans 10:17, now, on faith and works and their relation to the grace of God. Love Hoffco
 
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JesusIsAll

Guest
I remember a discussion a long time ago, where the question was, if you were stranded on an island and could only have one book of the Bible, which one would it be? Romans was my pick, for its tying together of the whole Christian gospel.
 
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Hoffco

Guest
I remember a discussion a long time ago, where the question was, if you were stranded on an island and could only have one book of the Bible, which one would it be? Romans was my pick, for its tying together of the whole Christian gospel.
Thanks for you good post. This is so true. Please help in keeping this thread alive. I am on hold , very soon, we will go to Rom.12; But. now I am looking for more discussion on Rom.1-11, the doctrinal section, before going to Paul's conclusion and and application section of Romans 12. which is based on a correct understanding of chs.1-11. Love Doug ,Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
We can not properly go on to the exhortation of Romans 12:1 with out a proper understanding of Romans chps.1-11, If we falsely believe that the bases of the Christian life is only Justification we deceive ourselves and others ,into believing we can go to daily sanctification without the new birth. Sanctification begun the radical brake with sin. Justification does not give us any desire or power to conquer sin in our flesh; Therefore, sanctification is a losing battle, which most professed christians lose. Because they are still dead in sin, not born again. So, pastors come up with a second experience of grace ,deeper life etc... to get the false christian to go on in holy living for Jesus. This is when most dead christians ,GET SAVED. in the deeper life experience. When will we teach the truth of the new birth? Love Hoffco
 
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Hoffco

Guest
I will seek to give a summary of the last 4 chapters pf Romans. There are some very important principles of the Christian life which are very needed in the churches of this apostate age in these last chps.. . I feel that this thread has been a success as far as we have gone, and it will be good for any serious ,open minded, young or old, Christian to study for yrs. to come ,in order to get grounded in the key Bible teaching of the salvation experience from beginning with Sanctification all the way to Glorification and from eternity pass to eternity future. I will seek to put this into book form for the Christians to have , LORD willing, for the few yrs. or decades, we have left before the Rapture. Love to all, Hoffco
 
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psychomom

Guest
my brief recap of the first three chapters:

chap 1--everyone's bad

chap 2--everyone's bad

chap 3--ellie is bad...

take it from there.

ps-- good work, Elin!
love you!