Baptism symbol only ?

newbirth · Nov 21, 2014

VCO said:

1 Peter 1:9

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:13
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus ChristMatthew 24:13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Romans 6:22
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Hebrews 3:6
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
Hebrews 3:14

For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Hebrews 6:11
And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

VCO · Nov 21, 2014

newbirth said:

how does your belief save you? total trust and submission to Christ would involve obedience....you can believe all you want it is when you do that makes the difference between a hearer and a doer....just like putting your foot on the ice...
You want belief to save you without action....faith without works is dead.........we are saved by grace through faith....so it is through your act of faith and not just belief...which is what the devils do believe and tremble....

[SUP]12 [/SUP]And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son

[SUP]17 [/SUP]That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

New, I really want you understand this, PLEASE try. Salvation is a WORK of GOD, not a WORK of MAN.

GOD DID IT ALL. Salvation is a free gift from GOD. YES those who received the GENIUNE GIFT of SALVATION, will follow Him in obediance, but we were SAVED the moment we believe as a FREE GIFT. You are trying to ROB GOD of the Credit for saving you, IF you already are saved. Obedience earns Heavenly Rewards, but SALVATION is NOT a REWARD, it is a GIFT.

newbirth · Nov 22, 2014

VCO said:

I suppose that is why the scripture says.....
Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

are you saying Paul is lying and I must listen to you...that is a different gospel bro

newbirth · Nov 22, 2014

VCO said:

notice the rubbish you are posting....

the scripture teaches ...
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

newbirth · Nov 22, 2014

VCO said:

notice the rubbish you are posting....

if that is so devils are saved too...they believe ...and tremble
the scripture teaches ...
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

tylerbones1313 · Nov 22, 2014

Hoffco said:

Water baptism doesn't symbolize baptism in the spirit it symbolizes our conforming to his death. Spirit baptism (speaking in tongues) is our receiving the resurrection of new life. It gives us the power and ability to live a holy and overcoming life. And only Christ can baptize us in the Spirit.

posthuman · Nov 22, 2014

tylerbones1313 said:

what makes you think
{the baptism of the Spirit} = {speaking in tongues} ?

Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?
(1 Corinthians 12:30)

(the answer is "no!")

For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body --
whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free -- and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
(1 Corinthians 12:13)

i would think you can't prove any more than
{speaking in tongues} ⊆ {baptism of the Spirit}

VCO · Nov 22, 2014

newbirth said:

I wondered when you would bring that verse up; AND obviously you do not know what it means. All that means is:

"If you really are saved, ACT LIKE IT."

VCO · Nov 22, 2014

newbirth said:

I told you the word BELIEVE in the BIBLE IS THE JEWISH DEFINITION of the word, NOT the American English Definition.

The American English definition can mean only itellectual acknowledgement that something is a fact. The Demons only intellectually acknowledged who Jesus was, THAT IS NOT BELIEVING, by the biblical definition.

TO GENUINELY BELIEVE, involves KNOWING that something is SO TRUE IN YOUR HEART ( NOT JUST IN YOUR HEAD ) that you will be putting your WHOLE TRUST in that TRUTH and demonstrating it by your ACTIONS, so that it is an ABSOLUTE GIVEN, the moment you BELIEVE before you ever follow through:

John 14:15 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “If you love Me {ARE SAVED.}, you will keep My commands.

ANYTHING LESS THAN THAT, IS NOT WHAT THE BIBLE MEANS BY "BELIEVE".

John 3:36 (GW)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, he will see God's constant anger.”

VCO · Nov 23, 2014

newbirth said:

James 2:19 (GW)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] You believe that there is one God. That's fine! The demons also believe that, and they tremble with fear.

Demons clearly are ONLY acknowledging the existence of GOD.

Now compare that to genuine Saving FAITH:

Acts 8:36-37 (HCSB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] As they were traveling down the road, they came to some water. The eunuch said, “Look, there’s water! What would keep me from being baptized?”
[SUP]37 [/SUP] And Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart you may.” {Because only those who already have the Holy Spirit can believe like that, they already have the LOVE of GOD poured out in their hearts, they already have been Baptized into the spiritual body of Christ by the Holy Spirit, and already are SAVED. Thus they qualify to make a public statement of identifying themselves with Jesus Christ by being obedient to Water Baptism too.} And he replied, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

John 11:26-27 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
[SUP]27 [/SUP] She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

NOTICE HE did not mention Water Baptism there, and it is WAY more that what Demons believe.

John 6:68-69 (NIV)
[SUP]68 [/SUP] Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
[SUP]69 [/SUP] We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God."

Now Peter is a JEW, so what is the significance of that Statment:

2 Kings 19:22 (ASV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Whom hast thou defied and blasphemed? and against whom hast thou exalted thy voice and lifted up thine eyes on high? even against the Holy One of Israel.

Job 6:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.

Psalm 71:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth, O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.

Now Peter's FAITH is WAY, WAY, more than the Demons only acknowledging that GOD exists, and WAY MORE than you Believe.

PACEMAKER · Nov 23, 2014

newbirth said:

[h=3]newbirth;[/h] [h=3]Work OUT NOT “WORK FOR”[/h] “work out your salvation with fear and trembling
– Philippians 2:12-13″
Let’s have a brief English 101 on verb and noun
Verb = an action word. Example : “Work”
Noun = people, places or things. Example : “Work”
“Work” can be a noun or a verb in a sentence If…

If it describes a thing, “My work there is done”
then it’s a noun
2. If it describes an action, “I cannot work today”
then it’s a verb

Good?
Work as ‘Noun’ to describe a thing
Philippians 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing that he which hath begun a
good work[ergon] in you
will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this is not
from yourselves, it is the gift of God
9 not by works[ergon], so that no one can boast.
10 For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works[ergon]
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them
Titus 3:5
5 Not by works[ergon] of righteousness which we have done but
according to his mercy he saved us by the washing of regeneration
and renewing of the Holy Ghost
Ergon means work. remember work here is a noun
(describes a thing).
Okay. Notice the above verses. What are common with Work?

In Philippians, Work is done by God
In Ephesians, Work is done by God. The product/workmanship is Us
In Titus, Its not our works, but Gods Mercy.
Still it’s God doing

So, clearly we have no part in the “doing” of Work.
All is God’s work

Work as ‘Verb’ to describe an action
Philippians 2:12-13
12 …work out[katergazesthe] your own salvation with fear and trembling
13 For it is God who works[energon] in you both to will and
to work[energein] of his good pleasure
katergazesthe (verb) – to bring to decisive finality
Energes(Energon/Energein) (verb) - energize like an electricity that flows to a shining light bulb
Now unlike the previous verses where all Work is done by God, here it says you have a part to perform. perform after,
not before nor at the same time. But still at the end,
God is the one doing Work.
question :
are you saved by your Work?
or by the Grace of God?
God’s grace. Amen.

But then what’s with this ‘work out’ thing?
what about ‘work out your salvation’?

Let us look at the same verse in different bible translations
Philippians 2:12-13 New Living Translation
12 .. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear.
13 For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.
The Message
12 …Better yet, redouble your efforts. Be energetic in your life of salvation, reverent and
sensitive before God. That energy is God’s energy,
an energy deep within you, God himself
willing and working at what will give him the most pleasure.
Amplified Bible
12 …work out (cultivate, carry out to the goal,
and fully complete) your own salvation with
reverence and awe and trembling (self-distrust, with serious caution, tenderness of
conscience, watchfulness against temptation, timidly shrinking from whatever might offend
God and discredit the name of Christ).
13 [Not in your own strength] for it is God Who is all the while
effectually at work in you
Energizing and creating in you the power and desire], both to will and to work for His good
pleasure and satisfaction and delight.
Newbirth..
He who has ears let him hear.

“work out your salvation with fear and trembling –
Philippians 2:12-13″
It did not say, ‘Work For’.
‘Work For’ means you work for something
you do not have yet or something you want to have.

‘Work out’ in the context means we already have salvation.
for ‘It is God who works in you’
consider the two verses below,
I trim down some words for simplicity

1.We are saved by grace .. not by works .
because we are his workmanship

2. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling .. because it is God who works in you

read the entire line and you will see the message clearly,
don’t skip. see it?????

Work out your salvation ..
Because it is God who works in you. or can be paraphrased like –
“Because it is God who works (gives energy) in you,
Work out (be energetic in) your salvation“

We ‘work out’ the salvation we already have.

if you don’t have it, what’s there to ‘work out’?

as an illustration
take a young student born-with-gift violinist. when her violin resonates, she simply stands out in the class. grace & perfect pitch. however, the classmates will work for in order to achieve grace & perfect pitch. but no matter how much they will devote their life to practicing in order to become a born-with-gift violinist, it is impossible. the only way for them to have born-with-gift is to be born again with gift (salvation) then they can play with grace & perfect pitch.
a violinist practices /work out /energon his instrument not to become a violinist. she is already a violinist by birth. no need to work for to become one. see even born-with-gift musicians practices (work out /energon) also.
so if you sing bad? don’t work for it. practice (work out) because you are already a singer. you do not sing to become a singer, you are already a singer
God work for your salvation.
work out that salvation by believing in Jesus
and not doing good works to earn salvation
or work for it.
when you believe,
you do not work for rather........ you rest.

Info from Work out your salvation | the gospel of grace

newbirth, are you working Out????? or Working FOR ???

Your Salvation ????

posthuman · Nov 23, 2014

how can you work out what hasn't first been worked in?

newbirth · Nov 23, 2014

PACEMAKER said:

nowhere did I say work for....can you work out your salvation without action/work?...does post #1023 say anything about work for salvation????

The work is done by God and Paul is telling you to work out the work done by God..?

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.( that is works of righteousness by the law)

it does not matter how many translation you use.....

Let us look at the same verse in different bible translations
I like this one....

Philippians 2:12-13The Message (MSG)
[h=3]Rejoicing Together[/h][SUP]12-13 [/SUP]What I’m getting at, friends, is that you should simply keep on doing what you’ve done from the beginning. When I was living among you, you lived in responsive obedience. Now that I’m separated from you, keep it up. Better yet, redouble your efforts. Be energetic in your life of salvation, reverent and sensitive before God. That energy is God’s energy, an energy deep within you, God himself willing and working at what will give him the most pleasure.

and if you don't work it out what will you have???

if you have attained salvation my friend there is no need to work out anything or for faith to attain something you already have...

2 Corinthians 5:5-9King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
[SUP]7 [/SUP](For we walk by faith, not by sight

[SUP]8 [/SUP]We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

VCO · Nov 23, 2014

newbirth said:

PACEMAKER said:

We were accepted by HIM before the foundation of the WORLD.

Ephesians 1:4 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,

Revelation 13:7-8 (ESV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

Notice that those of us who DO HAVE our names in the Book of life before the Foundation of the World, are NOT HERE to go through that Hour of Testing.

Ephesians 1:5-6 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He predestined us to be adopted through Jesus Christ for Himself, according to His favor and will,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] to the praise of His glorious grace that He favored us with in the Beloved.

VCO · Nov 23, 2014

NOW READ IT IN A MODERN VERSION, AND YOU WILL SEE IT IS ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE DIRECTION OF OUR CHRISTIAN WALK:

2 Corinthians 5:9 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Therefore, whether we are at home or away, we make it our aim to be pleasing to Him.

It appears to me that your lack of complete understanding of the old KJV English terminology, is leading you to errors in interpretations.

Hoffco · Nov 23, 2014

Jesus said to "work"... "for the food that endures to eternal life" Jh.6:27, That is a VERB. Paul said "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" Phil.2:12, that is a VERB. SORRY, newbirth, you don't read eng. so well. That is not a noun, in those verses, please STOP pulling the wool over our eyes, You are twisting the plain words of scripture. If I don't "WORK" for my salvation, I don't get IT. According to Rom. 6:22, and Rom.2:4-13 and Jh,3: 21, etc. etc., eternal life will be for those who are born again of God and do good works; Repent, trust and obey is the message for our salvation. Love Hoffco

Hoffco · Nov 23, 2014

VCO, sorry, you can not read eng. very well either. AT HOME means, alive in the flesh, absent means, DEAD and in Heaven. 2Cor.5:6&8 "at home in the body", ALIVE, Please, don't twist God's clear words. "absent from the body", DEAD. Love Hoffco

Hoffco · Nov 23, 2014

VCO. I want to hear you say, We must Repent, Trust and Obey Jesus to be saved. IF you can not say that, you are preaching a FALSE sal. message. Love Hoffco

newbirth · Nov 23, 2014

VCO said:

newbirth said:

Ephesians 1:4King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Ephesians 1:4Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]according as He did choose us in him before the foundation of the world, for our being holy and unblemished before Him, in love,

Ephesians 1:4The Message (MSG)
The God of Glory

[SUP]3-6 [/SUP]How blessed is God! And what a blessing he is! He’s the Father of our Master, Jesus Christ, and takes us to the high places of blessing in him. Long before he laid down earth’s foundations, he had us in mind, had settled on us as the focus of his love, to be made whole and holy by his love. Long, long ago he decided to adopt us into his family through Jesus Christ. (What pleasure he took in planning this!) He wanted us to enter into the celebration of his lavish gift-giving by the hand of his beloved Son.

Ephesians 1:4American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

Ephesians 1:4GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Before the creation of the world, he chose us through Christ to be holy and perfect in his presence.

Revelation 13:7-8King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 13:7-8Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]and there was given to it to make war with the saints, and to overcome them, and there was given to it authority over every tribe, and tongue, and nation.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land, whose names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world;

Revelation 13:7-8The Message (MSG)
[SUP]5-8 [/SUP]The Beast had a loud mouth, boastful and blasphemous. It could do anything it wanted for forty-two months. It yelled blasphemies against God, blasphemed his Name, blasphemed his Church, especially those already dwelling with God in Heaven. It was permitted to make war on God’s holy people and conquer them. It held absolute sway over all tribes and peoples, tongues and races. Everyone on earth whose name was not written from the world’s foundation in the slaughtered Lamb’s Book of Life will worship the Beast.

Revelation 13:7-8GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]It was allowed to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. It was also given authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Everyone living on earth will worship it, everyone whose name is not written in the Book of Life. That book belongs to the lamb who was slaughtered before the creation of the world.

notice you look for a translation that suit your doctrine

Ephesians 1:5-6 (HCSB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He predestined us to be adopted through Jesus Christ for Himself, according to His favor and will,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] to the praise of His glorious grace that He favored us with in the Beloved.

Ephesians 1:5-6King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Ephesians 1:5-6Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]having foreordained us to the adoption of sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of the glory of His grace, in which He did make us accepted in the beloved,

Ephesians 1:5-6The Message (MSG)
The God of Glory

[SUP]3-6 [/SUP]How blessed is God! And what a blessing he is! He’s the Father of our Master, Jesus Christ, and takes us to the high places of blessing in him. Long before he laid down earth’s foundations, he had us in mind, had settled on us as the focus of his love, to be made whole and holy by his love. Long, long ago he decided to adopt us into his family through Jesus Christ. (What pleasure he took in planning this!) He wanted us to enter into the celebration of his lavish gift-giving by the hand of his beloved Son.

Ephesians 1:5-6American Standard Version (ASV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the Belove
Ephesians 1:5-6GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Because of his love he had already decided to adopt us through Jesus Christ. He freely chose to do this [SUP]6 [/SUP]so that the kindness[SUP][a][/SUP] he had given us in his dear Son would be praised and given glory.

they are both scripture so you have to find the common ground they both be true....

posthuman · Nov 23, 2014

Hoffco said:

respectfully, i'd like to hear anyone explain how it is Paul thought it possible that an unrepentant, disobedient man's spirit might be saved on the day of judgement.

hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.
(1 Corinthians 5:5)

surely we are called to obedience. surely the Lord wishes us to repent from our sin.
but how to understand this? we should not ignore it.
surely it's God's mercy, not our deserving, that works salvation.

perhaps it is just not our place to sit in judgement of one another's ultimate salvation

how many people do you think that throne seats? i thought, One.

Baptism symbol only ?

Banned

Senior Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

tylerbones1313

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

PACEMAKER

Guest

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Hoffco

Guest

Hoffco

Guest

Hoffco

Guest

Banned

Senior Member