Living on the right side of the cross

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MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

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#81
Jan 8, 2009
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#81
The case of David is an interesting one, he begged God to spare the child and afterwards cleaned himself up after it died. This indicates David's plea was not genuine, it was an act, and that's probably why God didn't spare the child. He thought his fasting and weeping would change God's mind but as God said elsewhere, these sorts of things don't convince him.
 
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shad

Guest
#82
#82
charisenexcelcis said:
Sorry, just calling me names doesn't make your interpretation correct. I appreciate that there are various views of how repentance relates to salvation, but salvation without any consideration of repentance ignores too many texts.
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Oh, don't be so touchy, you love the word so nothing should offend you especially a donkey. Look at the bright side, the donkey was used to fulfill prophesy. Repentance is a great thing as long as it is applied in the right way and to the right thing. Don't be discourage, if you want to repent when you sin, no one is stopping you. You have that freedom if that is how you understand it. After all, God looks upon the heart and if that is your heart, I don't see any evil in repenting for sin. But I do see a greater kind of repentance when God gives us that capacity through the goodness of His grace and mercy. The next time you sin, have grace toward ourself and thank God for the blood of Christ. Merry Christmas!
 
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shad

Guest
#83
#83
MahogonySnail said:
The case of David is an interesting one, he begged God to spare the child and afterwards cleaned himself up after it died. This indicates David's plea was not genuine, it was an act, and that's probably why God didn't spare the child. He thought his fasting and weeping would change God's mind but as God said elsewhere, these sorts of things don't convince him.
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You never cease to amaze me with the kind of heart you express on these matters. Merry Christmas to you! Don't forget to visit Tiny Tim.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#84
Jan 8, 2009
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#84
The fact that David didn't weep after the child died shows he didn't really care for the child. Which is what you'd expect, a bastard child born out of an act of adultery and murder, I guess they didn't have contraception in those days. God basically did the abortion for him.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
#85
#85
MahogonySnail said:
The fact that David didn't weep after the child died shows he didn't really care for the child. Which is what you'd expect, a bastard child born out of an act of adultery and murder, I guess they didn't have contraception in those days. God basically did the abortion for him.
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ever occur to you that you might have totally missed the point?
 
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Ash_JFF

Guest
#86
#86
MahogonySnail said:
The fact that David didn't weep after the child died shows he didn't really care for the child. Which is what you'd expect, a bastard child born out of an act of adultery and murder, I guess they didn't have contraception in those days. God basically did the abortion for him.
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You are totally missing the point. The child DIED. He can't be brought back to life. Why waste time pleading for God to make the child better when the child is already dead? I have no doubt that David continued to have pain at the loss of his child but he quit begging God for the saving of his child when clearly he saw God's decision in the matter - the child died.
 
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Ash_JFF

Guest
#87
#87
I think this is what Shad was tring to say about repentance and Grace (Shad, tell me if I am wrong):

Only the Grace of Jesus Christ can save you. Repentance can't.

I believe that. Hear me out in trying to say why.

Many people "repent" of their sins to priests, to others, and to God. But, they have not "confessed Jesus as Lord and believed that God raised him from the dead." Therefore their repentance means nothing because they were never saved. God does not forgive you no matter how much you confess/repent if you are not saved.

I was eight when I became a Christian. I remember where I was and roughly what I said. Main points of what I said/believed when I became a Christian:

I believed that hell was real and that I did not want to go there.
I believed that Jesus is God in the flesh and that he can save me from hell.
I believed that Jesus can help me act in a way that is pleasing to him.
I believed that Jesus can not just be God in my life but a friend and a father.(Divorced - not a good role model dad)

I asked God to forgive me of my sins and to be Lord to me and a father and friend. I asked for him to help me act in a way that pleased him.

Yes, I repented of my sins in asking to be saved, however Gods grace led to that repentance. There is nothing good in anyone if it is not from God. My sinful nature did not want to repent. God, through his grace, convicted me and gave me the power to repent after I believed that Jesus is God and that He is able to forgive me based on what he did on the cross.

Repentance itself does not save you, but it is a result of the Grace of God bestowed on me when I believed that Jesus is Lord and that he died and resurrected to take away the sin of the world.

I think what Shad is saying is that repentance outside of salvation is pointless and rightly so. I repented, to turn away from our sinful ways, because I believed Jesus can save me from it, I believed Jesus is Lord, and God has given me a desire to be like Jesus. I confess my sins and ask for forgiveness today, not because I believe that I lost my salvation when I sinned (that goes against the very cross of Christ), but because I am so hurt that I hurt Jesus with my sins, that I have damaged my relationship with him and because I am so thankful that he is able to forgive me of my sins based on what he did on the cross.

Grace is the root of all that. Nothing in our lives desires to be like Jesus. That desire to be saved and to be like Jesus comes from God Grace through the blood of Jesus. We don't deserve to be saved at all but Jesus decided to give us an opportunity to be saved anyway. That is Grace - God giving us something that we don't deserve. Like salvation! :)
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#88
Jan 8, 2009
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#88
ever occur to you that you might have totally missed the point?
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I know, I'm just being annoying presenting alternative points of view.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#89
Jan 8, 2009
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#89
If that's what Shad is getting at then I agree to an extent. But I believe Shad was talking about saved believers in Christ exercising repentance ...at least that's what I thought the conversation was about. Repentance is not a work though, neither is faith, ... some people take the whole works thing way too far. Some, like Shad, would have people believe that God would condemn those who desire to repent often and sincerly, they would easily judge and condemn them as being self-righteous or living by works and not grace. But that is totally a misunderstood concept of what Paul talks about grace versus works. But for all the convincing arguments of man and talk about grace, there is little grace, actually coming from the people like Shad, who instead of praising those who seek to do right and repent of all known sin, rather condemn and accuse them of being self-righteous and living by works not grace.
 
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greatkraw

Guest
#90
#90
MahogonySnail said:
If that's what Shad is getting at then I agree to an extent. But I believe Shad was talking about saved believers in Christ exercising repentance ...at least that's what I thought the conversation was about. Repentance is not a work though, neither is faith, ... some people take the whole works thing way too far. Some, like Shad, would have people believe that God would condemn those who desire to repent often and sincerly, they would easily judge and condemn them as being self-righteous or living by works and not grace. But that is totally a misunderstood concept of what Paul talks about grace versus works. But for all the convincing arguments of man and talk about grace, there is little grace, actually coming from the people like Shad, who instead of praising those who seek to do right and repent of all known sin, rather condemn and accuse them of being self-righteous and living by works not grace.
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Snail, Shad UNDERSTANDS grace more than you are ever likely to in this life.
He is what is known as a Grace Oriented Believer.
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#91
Jan 8, 2009
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#91
Snail, Shad UNDERSTANDS grace more than you are ever likely to in this life.
He is what is known as a Grace Oriented Believer.
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pfffffft. You're just as bad as he is.
 
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shad

Guest
#95
#95
greatkraw said:
Shad can join my B.O. church whenver he likes:)
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Thank you for considering me to be your brother in Christ, for we are members one of another / Rom 12:5.
 
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shad

Guest
#96
#96
Where would each believer be without the grace of God / 1Cor 15:10? Can you really believe without grace / Acts 15:11? Can we be saved without grace / Eph 2:8,9? Can we grow without grace / 2Pt 3:18? When we fall, we fall into grace wherein we stand / Rom 5:2, 1Pt 5:12. God's strength is made perfect in our weakness through grace / 2Cor 12:9. God's grace can never fail the believer because of the love that initiates it / 1Cor 13:8. How can a believer be restored in his fellowship with Christ and with others without the grace of God? Is not our fellowship with one another a fellowship of grace / Gal 2:9?

God's grace is so foreign and alienated from the natural man and the mindset of the carnal man. Jesus Christ came by grace and truth and of His fulness have we all received, grace for grace / Jn 1:16,17. God's truth can not be understood or lived by faith without grace imparting life to the believer. We must learn how to let grace reign through the righteousness of God / Rom 5:17,21. We are good at telling others how they should live but do we impart the life of God's grace for them to live it / Eph 4:29?

Sin is wicked and God sent His Son to deal with every person's sin through the cross. Our sins were placed upon the body of the precious Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world / 1Pt 2:24, Jn 1:29. Through the cross every sin was paid for and put away / Heb 9:26, that is grace and truth. God has separated our sins from us as far as the east is from the west / Ps 103:12, that is grace and truth. He has buried our sins in the sea of God's forgetfulness / Micah 7:19, that is grace and truth. God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world but to save it / Jn 3:17, that is grace and truth.

We were God's enemy, dead in trespasses and sins when He found us and quickened us together, raised us up and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ / Rom 5:10, Eph 2:5,6, by grace and truth. There was not one speck of goodness in us / Rom 3:12 that responded to God's demonstration of His love, the presentation of His Son on Calvary and the invitation of salvation through the blood of Christ for the forgiveness, cleansing and remission of all sin. It was all according to His mercy / Titus 3:5, 1Pt1:3 and plan of salvation to bring redemption through the blood of His Son to sinners who were destitute and totally depraved from birth / Ps 51:5. It takes God's grace to make us see the error of our way / Jm 5:20, Gal 6:1, Rom 5:20,21 to make the soil of our heart fertile so that we can receive His incorruptible seed / Hos 10:12, Mt 13:23, to get us to grow in Him and restore us when we fall short and to have Christ be formed in us / Gal 4:19. It takes grace to get us to cooperated with the Holy Spirit and the work that He began in us / Phil 1:6, until the day of redemption when the day star arises in our hearts / 2Pt 1:19.

Grace through the Holy Spirit and through faith is what keeps the love of God motivated in our hearts to serve a living God who has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness / Heb 10:29, 2Pt 1:3. There is not a single thing we have from God that did not come by grace and truth. The last words that God recorded through a sinner saved by grace, finished the vision, the revelation and the canon of scripture;

Rev 22:21 'The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.'
 
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FixYourWeave

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#97
#97
I prefer the left side
 
MahogonySnail

MahogonySnail

Banned
#98
Jan 8, 2009
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#98
The thing is, with all your talk about grace, Christ never mentioned it, but rather mentioned repentance and remission of sins:

Luk 24:46 And He said to them, So it is written, and so it behoved Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,
Luk 24:47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be proclaimed in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.



As an interesting fact, the bible never records the word grace coming out of Jesus's mouth at all.


Paul speaks at length on the fact that grace and sin are complete opposites:
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Paul says sin shall not have dominion because you are under grace. You would say that a person can be under sin and it's OK because they are under grace. Big difference.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Disobedience in sin leads to death. (You have said before, that basically disobedience in sin leads to life). Obedience leads to righteousness (you would probably wrongly call that works or self-righteousness).

If you serve sin, you are free from righteousness:

Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
 
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shad

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#99
#99
When Jesus was a child He waxed strong in wisdom and the grace of God was upon Him / Lk 2:40. The word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth / Jn 1:14. The power and witness of the resurrection of Jesus Christ is the testimony of great grace being upon the believer as it was upon Christ / Acts 4:33. According to the scriptures Christ never mentions grace but He did not have to because he was the personification of grace as the spotless Lamb of God. His life was a ministry of grace toward sinners. When He had compassion on the multitudes that was His heart of mercy and grace. When He feed and healed the multitudes that was the power of the grace of God. One of the most beautiful demonstrations of the grace of God is when He washed the disciples feet and left them an example to do the same to one another.

Christ left the doctrine of grace to be taught, for the most part, by Paul, who probably needed more grace then all the apostles put together. David probably needed it more than most because of his tremendous weaknesses. Sinners are the one that really get to know the grace of God and realize that they can't take a step without grace. Jesus said without me you can do nothing and He's the person and God of all grace. The woman in Lk 7 who was a sinner who took the alabaster box of ointment and anointed the feet of Christ, she loved much because she was forgiven much. That is a beautiful testimony of the grace of God forgiving this woman and she reciprocated that grace with her much love for the Master.
 
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charisenexcelcis

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#100
#100
As a Christian, I do not believe that I "lose" my salvation whenever I sin. I do not repent out of fear, but rather out of a desire to allow the Holy Spirit to transform me, a desire that the old man would continue to die and the new man to live. Because of the wonder of his grace, I exercise repentence in confidence. This is the balance that I have found in my walk with Christ.
 
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