any real Christians who despise ungodly music like rock, country, rap, CCM?

[Siberian_Khatru]

This thread has endured painfully long despite people's opinions of the OP and the OP's opinion of people's opinions.

 

[posthuman]

I like the Icon pics because it makes it easy for me to skip over and not look at the posts of people who are antagonistic and hostile to the title, the OP, or myself. Those people were not invited here, but I can't stop them from having their worldly little party.

interesting how quickly you've gone from judging posts "at a glance" to judging actual people without cause, without even now reading what anyone says that you've already condemned in your heart.

it seems like you've done exactly the same thing with music as you now do with your brothers and sisters in Christ, if you are truly in Christ.

instead of listening to what a musician says, you hear one chord, and stand in judgment not only of the song, but the artist and anyone who listens to it.

now, instead of reading what these ones you should call your family in God take the time to write, you see their avatars and immediately hate them in your heart.

Joe, how can you do this and consider yourself "holy" ?
don't you know that the scriptures teach love for one another, and that if you do not have love, you are not in Christ?

 

[posthuman]

Col 3:16-17
16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

then you should have no problem with a Psalm, no matter what the style of music is, right?
or for that matter, any song whose lyrics are verbatim from the scripture, no matter what instruments are used to accompany it, or the tone of the singer's voice, right?

or do you think to judge by some other carnal standard instead?

 

[posthuman]

the problem i see with this thread is that this is verbatim Psalm 91:

[video=youtube_share;YvhWTWpNWL0]http://youtu.be/YvhWTWpNWL0[/video]

and it is also "CCM" --- but our friend who espouses "holiness" calls this "ungodly" ?

Joe, i don't know what to think, except that you simply know very little about the depth and breadth of Christian music, because your faith is too small to accept it.

if your heart would be softened, we might be used of God to help teach it much joy.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Again, I will not engage in conversations with Christians or anybody else who is opposed to the title and OP of this thread. I was like you, I wrote and sang some music which I'm sure was better than all the CCM garbage of today, I used the Bible to support my tolerances of ungodly music and entertainments, and had little clue what worldliness was because like the people who are hostile to this thread, I was compromising holiness to allow ungodly entertainments to amuse me. I can use the Bible to support arguments against the OP much better than anybody here if I choose to, but I quit doing that and I completely renounce all the Bible college teaching which said it was good to enjoy worldly entertainments. It felt good to enjoy music, tv, movies that were not about Jesus and not edifying to the faith. It also helped me to be accepted by lost people. Jesus didn't shed His blood for us to make us compromisers. He bought us to take us out of this world, not to teach us how to nicey-nice with it. Three of the biggest names in CCM were members of my church, one was a board member of the Bible college I attended. I worked for and with some of them. The one who was a board member of my college was, and still is, honoring the Lord with his life. His music was not too bad, at least it didn't take excursions of feelings to trump doctrine like most CCM today does. I'll talk at people who oppose the title and OP of this thread, and/or preach at them since they obviously are lacking in solid Bible teaching and preaching, but I will not engage in direct conversation because antagonizers and hostiles only want to insult me and try to make me act like they are acting here, rude. This thread was not an invitation to people opposed to the title, ti was an appeal for like-minded Christians to talk with me and it remains as such. I'm not here to debate.

 

[zaoman32]

.....this has lasted 8 pages, I confess myself disappointed.

 

[Iain]

Joe, how can you do this and consider yourself "holy" ?
don't you know that the scriptures teach love for one another, and that if you do not have love, you are not in Christ?

That is exactly my problem with the title of this thread and the way Joe is presenting his case. The discussion around music genres is a side issue for me, one way or another. The issue is the fact that the way it is presented seems to me to be unloving and that is just not the way it should be, in my view. We should be known by the love we have for one another. That includes not condemning people with whom you happen to disagree, even if you may be right because none of us are perfect and especially on a place like this you don't really know what goes on in that person's life. If what you say is the truth, speak the truth in love.

 

[posthuman]

let me help you be free, Joe.

would you call these lyrics "ungodly" ? they are the shema, Deuteronomy 6:4, sung in Hebrew, and then a quote speaking of Christ from the Psalms.

Szema Izrael, Adonai Elohenu
Szema Izrael, Adonai Ehad

Adonai Elohenu - Adonai Elohenu - Ehad
Adonai Elohenu - Elohenu Adonai

You will love the Lord with all your heart, with all your mind and with all your strength

"in the scroll of the book it is written of me, Lord, that I do your will O my God,
that's what I want, your rights in the depths of my heart"

i don't think anyone who calls themselves a "Christian" can condemn this as "ungodly," correct?

so Joe, please, if your heart can stand it - listen to at least 45 seconds of this song and tell me if you can still call it "ungodly" -- the passage from Deuteronomy is sung in Hebrew, and the passage from Psalm 40 is in Polish.

[video=youtube_share;ctfQyVT7Ufs]http://youtu.be/ctfQyVT7Ufs[/video]

knowing that this is in fact a psalm, a hymn, a spiritual song - exactly as Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16 teach us that we should sing, i would like to learn of you on what basis you can condemn it?

thanks.


Szema Izrael, Adonai Elohenu
Szema Izrael, Adonai Ehad

Adonai Elohenu - Adonai Elohenu - Ehad
Adonai Elohenu - Elohenu Adonai

Będziesz kochać Pana całym swoim sercem,
całym swym umysłem, całą swoją mocą

"W zwoju księgi o mnie napisano,
że mam Panie pełnić Twoją wolę
Boże mój tego właśnie pragnę,
Twego prawa w głębi mego serca"

 

[Breeze7]

Some of the best music I ever heard was christian hip hop. I say piano is amazing with anything but I have a keyboard and am in love with it. As long as christ is being praised and the music comes from the heart everythings good.

 

[SaintJoeNow]

You people who think you have something to teach me in this thread are all just repetitive. I could write the things you are writing and use the same arguments much better than you are doing when I was like you. I know the things you will say before you say them because I said it all many times myself long before you, and I've heard it a million times since. There is no reason for me to spend time reading your posts because I've seen it all before. You are the ones who need something new from the Lord, not me. You are welcome to read my posts, but as long as I sense hostily or antagonism I will not read yours. I don't have time for lukewarm old worn out arguments agasint holiness. Jesus might come back today and I don't want to be caught arguing with you while you are listening to the Beatles or Michael W Smith, both of them wicked and not for me to be caught hanging around with when jesus comes back. You can have that stuff if you want it. I want my mind to be focused on the Lord so I'm not shocked when that trumpet sounds, and I'll be strong to endure whatever suffering may be ahead for me. If you are not suffering persecution for living a godly life, you are not living godly. Period. And it's not worth arguing about if you don't like this thread. Take a stand in the faith and the world will hate you. If the world is not hating you, you are not taking a stand.

Compromising in unholy entertainments is a way of avoiding being persecuted for living godly. Allowing things repulsive to the Holy Spirt, things not directly and soley glorifying to Jesus Chrsit, to amuse you is repulsive to the Holy Spirit and if it's not repulsive to you, we won't get along. This thread is for people who will get along with me. The others are uninvited, but allowed by the site so I hope they have fun.

 

[posthuman]

Again, I will not engage in conversations with Christians or anybody else who is opposed to the title and OP of this thread

again, i don't care about how hard your heart is, but that it would be melted.

the Lord of Lords has instructed me:
if your brother is caught in sin, restore him gently.

who shall i obey, Joe, or Jesus?

if i sing the scripture with joy in my heart, thanking and praising God,
and you call what i do "ungodly" -- are you not in error?

i'm not talking about worldly music. we both hate that.

is the song i just posted "worldly" ?
the artists are not making lots of money from it. they are not becoming "famous" from it.
it is not "popular" - even among Christians.

can you condemn it?
why? how? if you do, are you not judging according to the flesh, not the Spirit?

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Music made for the glitter, the fame, and the money is worldly no matter how many times they say "I love Jesus", or "Jesus loves me". People who glorify their own talents and then sell it to Christians by pretending to be spirtual when they are in reality sensual and appealing to sensuality and feelings which masquerade as spirituality will never again be entertaining for me. I left that stuff behind, and I'm not going to engage in any direct conversation with any individual opposed to the title or the OP of this thread.

It's a shame Christians don't know the difference these days between worldly and holy, sensual and spiritual, godly and ungodly. Fornictation always follows CCM, and some of those CCM artists have said they have a license to do whatever Bill Clinton showed is ok for Americans to do when he was our illustrious pervert President....oh yeah, he was a Christian too, yeah, right, almost forgot. How could I forget that?

 

[ServantStrike]

I see some trying to make Bible based arguments against the title of the thread and the OP. I don't need to read those posts because I studied it in college. I wrote term papers and major assigments supporting arguments against the thread title and agaisnt the OP and agaisnt what I am saying regarding holiness in what we allow to amuse or entertain us as blood bought believers. Only a glance is needed for me to know what christians who actually may be good godly christians, like the men who led the excellent Bible college I attended taught me to say in college...and I can say it all in much more detail and with much better arguements than anybody who is opposed to the title and OP of this thread....and I was wrong and I would be wrong if I still were to take that stand in compromising holiness for friendship with the world in indulgences of worldly entertaiments. I'm not going to engage any antagonizers or opposers to this thread in direct conversation, but I will tell you how I know you are wrong without reading the things you are saying which I used to say myself in much more eloquent fashion with much more scholarly, though misguided, biblical support.

You state that you cannot stand music written for any other purpose than to glorify Christ. Your words - not ours. You also say that music goes beyond just lyrical content, and any music written not for the glory of Christ is automatically written to glorify the person who wrote it - again, your words, not ours.


Yet I see the word "I" a lot in your last post. Where's the glory of Christ in that post? I see you talking an awful lot about how your bible college experience makes you uniquely qualified to make the assertions you've made here, and how you've already written extensively on this topic in the past.


And I see some contradiction here - you state the men who ran this bible college were excellent Christians, yet you also stated that this school compromised heavily with the world.


How do you explain this dichotomy?

 

[SaintJoeNow]

If you are antagonistic to the title and/or OP of this thread, I'm not going to talk to you.

I'm not even going to read your posts. I've seen it all a million times, I used to make the same arguments and objections.

Deal with it.

 

[posthuman]

I'll talk at people who oppose the title and OP of this thread, and/or preach at them since they obviously are lacking in solid Bible teaching and preaching

then do it, Joe.

what are you waiting for?

you've only quoted one scripture so far at all, and it does not support your OP, but condemns it, because i can show you psalms, hymns and spiritual songs that are taken directly from scripture, glorify Jesus Christ, and are played in rock, country, rap, reggae, heavy metal, EDM, experimental noise, classical, indie, ethnic, blues or just about any other style of music you can name.

what are you waiting for Joe?

preach to me; teach me from the scriptures how that i should judge carnally, if you can.
i love to hear and read sermons.

 

[ServantStrike]

If you are antagonistic to the title and/or OP of this thread, I'm not going to talk to you.

I'm not even going to read your posts. I've seen it all a million times, I used to make the same arguments and objections.

Deal with it.

Since you did not quote me, I don't know if you are referring to me or to someone else. Perhaps you are referring to me as you mention you ignore any one who has an avatar you don't like. In case you were wondering, mine comes from no form of popular entertainment that has ever existed on this planet, nor one that ever will. You'd be likely to see my avatar at a power plant, or maybe at a laboratory, or at a depot (that was well guarded).

I said nothing for or against your thread - I asked for clarification of some things you said - which you indicated would be forthcoming when you said you would preach to us

 

[posthuman]

Music made for the glitter, the fame, and the money is worldly no matter how many times they say "I love Jesus", or "Jesus loves me". People who glorify their own talents and then sell it to Christians by pretending to be spirtual when they are in reality sensual and appealing to sensuality and feelings which masquerade as spirituality will never again be entertaining for me.

so if i show you some artists who sing and play instruments comparatively poorly, and whose recordings have never even sold 100 copies, but who do all that they do for the glory of God, and all of their lyrics are uncompromisingly God-honoring and full of praise and admonishment towards righteousness,

you will love them, no matter what the music actually sounds like?

then we are on exactly the same page.

but i am afraid this is not your position .. ? is it?

 

[posthuman]

Fornictation always follows CCM

i think it's pretty safe to say that this statement is a lie.

 

[hoss2576]

I picture you nudging King David and saying, "Hey that psalm is just a little too rock and roll."

 

[posthuman]

in case anyone (*cough*) is not aware,

CCM is not a 'genre' or style of music -- it means Contemporary Christian Music. there are contemporary Christian musicians in every genre imaginable.

even the Psalms were "contemporary" when they were written.